MR.BEER® Community

Please critique, I'm trying to come up with a New Belgium 1554 clone, AG. Did a lot of research with some notes from people who talked with New Belgium, and with a bit of their experiments and with how they felt their results compared.

Please take a look and see what you think:

Recipe: MF 2009
Brewer: Robert Niles
Asst Brewer:
Style: Belgian Specialty Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 2.13 gal
Boil Size: 2.44 gal
Estimated OG: 1.057 SG
Estimated Color: 23.3 SRM
Estimated IBU: 19.3 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
2.98 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) Bel (3.0 SRM) Grain 67.57 %
1.07 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 24.13 %
0.21 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 4.83 %
0.13 lb Black (Crisp) (680.0 SRM) Grain 2.90 %
0.03 lb Chocolate Malt (450.0 SRM) Grain 0.58 %
0.17 oz Magnum [14.00 %] (60 min) Hops 19.3 IBU
0.11 tsp Grains of Paradise (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
0.43 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Octoberfest Lager Blend (Wyeast LAbs #2633Yeast-Lager


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 4.41 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 5.52 qt of water at 165.9 F 154.0 F

I don't have the sparge info in yet ...any suggestions quite welcome!

I can not comment as to its clone worthiness.
However, it looks like a sound recipe.
A couple of things...

First you should really adapt to the metric system! Especially at our batch size. How do you plan on measuring out that 0.03 lb Chocolate Malt? 13-14 grams is much more measurable.

I can not remember your set up, are you using a Tun or is this a Brew in Bag variant? Either way calculating your recipe at 75% efficiency may leave you lacking in OG.

Batch size. You are not leaving yourself much room for loss to cold break. You can easily do a 2.4 gallon batch in the Mr Beer Fermenter and account for trub loss.
Looks like you are using BeerSmith. Have you taken the time to set up your equipment? Ie: Evaporation rate and loss to Break Material...
I do not see you winding up with 2.13 gallons after boiling 2.44 gal for an hour and leaving the gunk in the kettle.

Last question would be if you have the ability to do a proper Lager?

Nice looking recipe, tho!
I might revisit it come the time when the Lager itch strikes me.

Thanks Drock ...haven't done the mashing and the steeping yet. Was concentrating on the recipe but you're right, I do need to deal with that - just putting it off til tomorrow.

Ah ...I should have mentioned the Lager Yeast. According to New Belgium, they use a Lager yeast at Ale temperatures. Their hint was to use a Lager yeast that has low sulfur production, so I picked the Wyeast #2633 - it seemed to fit the bill.

I will be using a proper mash tun this time.

Should probably mention the Grains of Paradise ..a spice with mostly a pepper flavour with some cardamom and coriander hints to it. NB isn't talking about it but there's a lot of talk that this is what they are using instead of a finishing hop (NB does say they don't use a finishing hop with the 1554).

D Rock wrote:

First you should really adapt to the metric system! Especially at our batch size. How do you plan on measuring out that 0.03 lb Chocolate Malt? 13-14 grams is much more measurable.


Good idea.

I'm working on an AG version of 1554 as well. I'm going to use the Saflager S-33 instead because I here it does well at ale temps and because if it doesn't work, I won't have wasted an $8 pack of yeast.

D Rock wrote:

I can not remember your set up, are you using a Tun or is this a Brew in Bag variant? Either way calculating your recipe at 75% efficiency may leave you lacking in OG.


Changed the 75% to 65%.


Batch size. You are not leaving yourself much room for loss to cold break. You can easily do a 2.4 gallon batch in the Mr Beer Fermenter and account for trub loss.
Looks like you are using BeerSmith. Have you taken the time to set up your equipment? Ie: Evaporation rate and loss to Break Material...
I do not see you winding up with 2.13 gallons after boiling 2.44 gal for an hour and leaving the gunk in the kettle.


OK, I have:

Evap rate: 9%
Lost to Boil Trub and Chiller: 0 gal
Top up water: 0 gal
Final volume: 2.13
Boil time: 60 mins
Cool loss pct: 4%

It's calculating the final volume of 2.13 with a boil volume of
2.44 gal

I agree, boiling 2.44 gal of water for 60 minutes doesn't seem like it would leave 2.13 gal in the pot

Suggestions?

I do remember I had to add water after the boil when doing the AG last time. Which was fine by me as it helped cool the water down faster.

Dr. Dink wrote:
I'm working on an AG version of 1554 as well. I'm going to use the Saflager S-33 instead because I here it does well at ale temps and because if it doesn't work, I won't have wasted an $8 pack of yeast.

Would be very interested in seeing your grain bill! I don't see anything wrong with the S-33 ...I didn't think of a dry yeast.

I'll be very interested in hearing how it turns out.

Well this is where I am starting. Still tweaking it a bit:

1260 gm Belgian Pale
210 gm Munich Malt
240 gm German Vienna
210 gm Belgian Aromatic
130 gm Belgian Special B
40 gm Belgian Black Roast
3 gm Magnum (Whole, 14.50 %AA) boiled 60 min.
3 gm Magnum (Whole, 14.50 %AA) boiled 30 min.
1 Pkg Saflager S-33 Dry Lager Yeast

rniles wrote:
D Rock wrote:

I can not remember your set up, are you using a Tun or is this a Brew in Bag variant? Either way calculating your recipe at 75% efficiency may leave you lacking in OG.


Changed the 75% to 65%.


Batch size. You are not leaving yourself much room for loss to cold break. You can easily do a 2.4 gallon batch in the Mr Beer Fermenter and account for trub loss.
Looks like you are using BeerSmith. Have you taken the time to set up your equipment? Ie: Evaporation rate and loss to Break Material...
I do not see you winding up with 2.13 gallons after boiling 2.44 gal for an hour and leaving the gunk in the kettle.


OK, I have:

Evap rate: 9%
Lost to Boil Trub and Chiller: 0 gal
Top up water: 0 gal
Final volume: 2.13
Boil time: 60 mins
Cool loss pct: 4%

It's calculating the final volume of 2.13 with a boil volume of
2.44 gal

I agree, boiling 2.44 gal of water for 60 minutes doesn't seem like it would leave 2.13 gal in the pot

Suggestions?

I do remember I had to add water after the boil when doing the AG last time. Which was fine by me as it helped cool the water down faster.Change your Lost to Boil Trub and Chiller: 0 gal to .5 gallons. This way you can leave behind break and hop material in the kettle. I am assuming that you have a kettle large enough to do this. 16 qt is the minimum for an AG full wort boil on a Mr Beer.

Oh and 9% is what I use for evaporation rate. Yours could be up to 15+/-%. Not trying to throw too much out there at you, but these are the things that need to be taken into consideration when doing an AG.

DRock, I haven't gone AG yet, but plan to. When you boil in a 16qt. kettle are you doing this stovetop, or do you have some other propane/turkey-fryer set-up?

Dr. Dink wrote:
Well this is where I am starting. Still tweaking it a bit:

1260 gm Belgian Pale
210 gm Munich Malt
240 gm German Vienna
210 gm Belgian Aromatic
130 gm Belgian Special B
40 gm Belgian Black Roast
3 gm Magnum (Whole, 14.50 %AA) boiled 60 min.
3 gm Magnum (Whole, 14.50 %AA) boiled 30 min.
1 Pkg Saflager S-33 Dry Lager YeastDo you have that worked up in BeerSmith? Send me the BSM if you do, I think you have my addy..

Not yet. I'll load it in this weekend and forward it to you.

OK, updated the recipe a bit to fit with the changes Drock suggest for my equipment. Also up the chocolate to 1.95% as I am going to use a de-bittered black. Also increased the hops by a just a bit to even out the maltiness a bit.


Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 2.25 gal
Boil Size: 3.13 gal
Estimated OG: 1.054 SG
Estimated Color: 24.8 SRM
Estimated IBU: 21.9 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
3.31 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) Bel (3.0 SRM) Grain 64.52 %
1.28 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 24.95 %
0.34 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 6.63 %
0.10 lb Black (Crisp) (680.0 SRM) Grain 1.95 %
0.10 lb Chocolate Malt (450.0 SRM) Grain 1.95 %
0.20 oz Magnum [14.00 %] (60 min) Hops 21.9 IBU
0.13 tsp Grains of Paradise (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
0.50 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1 pkg Wyeast 2633 Oktoberfest Lager Blend

Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 5.13 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 6.42 qt of water at 165.9 F 154.0 F

Does this still look ok? I should be able to brew this on Friday.

Now I'm curious. If I print a brew sheet, it has the sparge steps but not when I print a recipe. How can that be shown in the recipe as well?

Recipe looks sound. I guess that my only issue would be the precentage of CaraPils. I do not like to use more than 4%. However, I have not had a 1554 for quite some time, so I can not speak to its clone worthiness.

Now I'm curious. If I print a brew sheet, it has the sparge steps but not when I print a recipe. How can that be shown in the recipe as well?
Looks like you are cutting and pasting the "Text" recipe view...
Go to your BeerSmith folder, go into the Templates folder, open up recipetext.txt with NotePad. Under: "Mash Schedule: $MASH_NAME
$MASH_STEPS", add:

Thanks for the tip DRock!

OK, here is the final recipe (maybe):


BeerSmith Recipe Printout - www.beersmith.com
Recipe: MF 2009 2.4 gallons
Brewer: Robert Niles
Asst Brewer:
Style: Belgian Specialty Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 9.09 L
Boil Size: 13.36 L
Estimated OG: 1.057 SG
Estimated Color: 25.7 SRM
Estimated IBU: 19.7 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
1.76 kg Pale Malt (2 Row) Bel (3.0 SRM) Grain 67.57 %
0.63 kg Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 24.13 %
0.13 kg Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 4.83 %
0.08 kg Black (Crisp) (680.0 SRM) Grain 2.90 %
0.02 kg Chocolate Malt (450.0 SRM) Grain 0.58 %
5.39 gm Magnum [14.00 %] (60 min) Hops 19.7 IBU
0.12 tsp Grains of Paradise (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
0.5 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 min) Misc


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 2.60 kg
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 6.79 L of water at 165.9 F 154.0 F


Sparge Volume/Temperature: 9.18 L @ 168.0 F
Batch Sparge Round 1: Sparge with 2.50 L of 168.0 F water
Batch Sparge Round 2: Sparge with 6.68 L of 168.0 F water

So I'm new to Beersmith, am I reading this right?

60 min Mash In Add 6.79 L of water at 165.9 F 154.0 F

Does that mean a 60 minute mash and your strike water temp is 165.9F, shooting for a 154F mash temp?

Ron

Ron wrote:
60 min Mash In Add 6.79 L of water at 165.9 F 154.0 F

Does that mean a 60 minute mash and your strike water temp is 165.9F, shooting for a 154F mash temp?Yep.

rniles, the recipe is looking good! I have my doubts about the IBUs and their replacement with the Grains of Paradise. Looking forward to hearing how it comes out. If the GOP really works out, I may brew this up!

D Rock wrote:

rniles, the recipe is looking good! I have my doubts about the IBUs and their replacement with the Grains of Paradise. Looking forward to hearing how it comes out. If the GOP really works out, I may brew this up!

Are you thinking the IBU's should be higher or lower?

From drinking, it didn't seem to be a very bitter beer ...maybe a hint of it but finished malty. In fact my brother-in-law didn't like it, too malty for him. T'was perfect for me (for me New Belgium's Abbey is too malty but the 1554 was great).

I'm afraid my recipe's IBU is too high.

rniles wrote:
D Rock wrote:

rniles, the recipe is looking good! I have my doubts about the IBUs and their replacement with the Grains of Paradise. Looking forward to hearing how it comes out. If the GOP really works out, I may brew this up!

Are you thinking the IBU's should be higher or lower?

From drinking, it didn't seem to be a very bitter beer ...maybe a hint of it but finished malty. In fact my brother-in-law didn't like it, too malty for him. T'was perfect for me (for me New Belgium's Abbey is too malty but the 1554 was great).

I'm afraid my recipe's IBU is too high.Well, like I said earlier, I have not had one of these in quite some time and my taste memory is not telling me where it should be. Did a quick search of other Clones out there without really looking at the recipes, just the BU:GU. Found 0.503, 0.407, 0.570. You are at 0.345. Seems to malty to me. But, I thought that you had mentioned in an earlier post that the Grains of Paradise was to make up for the finishing hops. So, I figured that it should be malty, with some of the malt being offset be a spice ala a Gruit.
Maybe I need to go pick up a 1554...