MR.BEER® Community

Here is my take on a Fat Tire Clone. Note it is still cold conditioning, so I can not call it cloned or not. I have tried an early tasting of the Trub Bottle and can say that, irregardless of being a clone, this will be a great beer. I will update when I do a side-by-side tasting.

Recipe: Mai Tyre
Brewer: D Train Brewery
Asst Brewer: Ninkasi
Style: American Amber Ale
Type: Partial Mash

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 2.13 gal
Boil Size: 2.44 gal
Estimated OG: 1.056 SG
Estimated FG: 1.014 SG
Estimated ABV: 5.51 %
Estimated IBU: 30.3 IBU (Rager) 25.0 IBU (Tinseth)
Estimated BU:GU: 0.538 (Rager) 0.444 (Tinseth)
Estimated Color: 10.7 SRM
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
1134.00 gm (2.50 lb) Briess Golden Light LME (6.0 SRM) 63.60 %
275.00 gm (9.70 oz) 2 Row Pale Malt (Rhar) (2.0 SRM) 15.42 %
90.00 gm (3.17 oz) Crystal 15L (Crisp) (15.0 SRM) 5.05 %
90.00 gm (3.17 oz) Munich (Briess) (10.0 SRM) 5.05 %
90.00 gm (3.17 oz) Victory (Briess) (28.0 SRM) 5.05 %
80.00 gm (2.82 oz) CaraPils (Briess) (2.0 SRM) 4.49 %
24.00 gm (0.84 oz) Pale Chocolate Malt (Crisp) (200.0 SRM) 1.35%
14.00 gm (0.49 oz) Williamette [5.50 %] (60 min) 25.5 IBU
5.00 gm (0.18 oz) Fuggles [4.50 %] (20 min) 3.0 IBU
6.00 gm (0.21 oz) Fuggles [4.50 %] (5 min) 1.8 IBU
0.50 tsp Irish Moss (10.0 min)
1 Pkgs American Ale II (Wyeast Labs #1272)


Mash Schedule: Temperature Mash, 1 Step, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 637.00 gm (1.40 lb)
----------------------------
60 min Saccharification - Add 1.76 qt of water at 166 F - 154.0 F
10 min Sparge/Steep - 2.17 gal of water at 168.0 F

Notes:
------
Victory is Briess Malting's name for their version of Belgian biscuit malt. Both are basically the same color and will contribute a somewhat bready, light toasty flavor to the beer. There are subtle differences. Use them interchangeably. I am pretty sure that New Belgian uses Victory.

Starting Gravity came in at 1.054, expected 1.056 -Close enough!

Thanks for posting this.
I've never done a partial mash. Maybe I'll have to try it as my first experience.

It is real similar to other Fat Tire Clones I have seen, although most I've seen make a much darker beer than your 10.7 (yours is closer to what I would expect)

Couple questions:
You did not specify how much priming sugar you used (unless I am just missing it). How much / what kind?

How did you decide on American Ale II vs. Wyeast Belgian Abby II? I have actually used AAII although it is still in the fermenter, so I cannot say I've tasted it yet.

What temperature did you ferment at? I know AAII claims to impart a different flavor toward the top of the temperature range vs. the bottom. Of course, when I used it, I went right down the middle.

Any words of wisdom on how to do a partial mash? If not, I'm sure I can just look it up.

esheppy wrote:
Is your LHBS Hop To It?
I will post it now. Keep in mind that it has not reached maturity. So, Cloned or not is not determined.
I go to the LODO version of Hop To It: Stomp Them Grapes. I've only been there a couple of times with real minor purchases ... just in and out.

I'm looking at your recipe right now. I'll have a couple of questions on that thread I think.My LHBS is the Boulder brother of yours.
That is how I settled on Wyeast #1272. I talked to them about their clone recipe. Theirs comes with the Belgian Abby II. I told them that I was debating between Abby II and American Ale II. I was told that making it with Abby II has a great flavor, but American Ale II comes closer to Fat Tire. Of course the biggest challenge with a Fat Tire Clone is the yeast. Based on LHBS advise and some other research I choose to go with the American Ale II. Another thing that I was advised while asking about their clone was to sub the Chocolate Malt for Pale Chocolate. That my address the SRM issues that you mentioned and is what I used.

I batched primed with 58 grams of Cane sugar.
I fermented for 7 days at 66-68 F and 7 days at 72-73 F.
Have you steeped grains? If you have you can do a partial mash. You just have to be a little stricter about water volume and temperature. Also it will increase the time of the "steep" to 60 minutes.

D Rock what is the reasoning behind fermenting one week at cooler temps and then the next at higher temps. The only thing I can think of may be to compensate for the heat of fermentation but I could be wrong.

Have you steeped grains? If you have you can do a partial mash. You just have to be a little stricter about water volume and temperature. Also it will increase the time of the "steep" to 60 minutes.I have steeped. Is a partial mash really as simple as a longer steep and more careful temp volume monitoring? Interesting.

Anyway, thanks again.

crazybrody wrote:
D Rock what is the reasoning behind fermenting one week at cooler temps and then the next at higher temps. The only thing I can think of may be to compensate for the heat of fermentation but I could be wrong.
I basically consider it a diacetyl rest. While ale yeast do not give off nearly as much diacetyl as Lager Yeasts, they do produce some, along with other by products of fermentation. My theory behind the raise in temps is that it may help excite the yeast into do some additional cleanup work. Also, at this point higher temp esters and fusels are not a concern.
Probably totally unnecessary. Just something that I do.
esheppy wrote:
Have you steeped grains? If you have you can do a partial mash. You just have to be a little stricter about water volume and temperature. Also it will increase the time of the "steep" to 60 minutes.I have steeped. Is a partial mash really as simple as a longer steep and more careful temp volume monitoring? InterestingPretty much. The reason that temp is not crucial when steeping is that you steep grains that have already had their starches converted to sugars during the malting process. On grains that must be mashed you need to create an environment favorable towards enabling the Alpha and Beta Amylase to do the conversion process. So, a not to dilute solution at the ideal temperature for conversion with enough time allowed for the conversion to occur.

D Rock -- a week or so ago, Eric told me that temp control was essential in the VERY beginning, even before krausen formed, to avoid off flavors, but I did not take his statements to mean that later on it was not a concern. I want to double check my understanding of what you said...after the big explosive part of fermentation, we can raise temps (realistically) to squeeze better performance without fear?

David

SiriusDG wrote:
D Rock -- a week or so ago, Eric told me that temp control was essential in the VERY beginning, even before krausen formed, to avoid off flavors, but I did not take his statements to mean that later on it was not a concern. I want to double check my understanding of what you said...after the big explosive part of fermentation, we can raise temps (realistically) to squeeze better performance without fear?

DavidYep. Just as long as you still keep it within a reasonable range. It is during primary fermentation that all of your off flavor are going to be produced. Once kruasen has dropped out temp is not as big of an issue. Keep in mind that yeast hate temp swings. So raise it and set it.

Edit: I should add that it has been pointed out that none of us are qualified to give out advise. This is what I do and it works for me. There may be others with a different, valid opinion.

This deviates from the intent of the thread and I apologize:
I hadn't tried Fat Tire until recently and was amazed. There is a very distinctive flavor that I have only ever tasted in Harpoon's IPA. Except Fat Tire's flavor is much more pronounced, and enjoyable. What is that flavor? It kind of makes your lips 'smack'. I could never place the sensation. Hops, malt, or yeast???

Edit: I should add that it has been pointed out that none of us are qualified to give out advise. This is what I do and it works for me. There may be others with a different, valid opinion.
I thought the purpose of this forum was to get (and give) advice from (to) others. Knowledge sharing from the experienced (IE D-Rock) to the not-so-experienced (IE esheppy).

I think your warning is a little like Starbucks putting a warning on their coffee: "Contents might be hot".


Lowtech: I think the answer to your question Hops, malt, or yeast is "yes". It is a unique combination. As D-Rock mentioned, the hardest part of the equation with Fat Tire is the yeast, but I do think the whole package is what makes it unique.

Does this mean from now on I have to add at the bottom of my post: I may or may not be talking poo.













Caution: I may or may not be talking poo.

YD... just make it part of your signature... then you won't have to type it out every time.

I would word it something like:

"If you are idiotic enough not to know what discussion forums are for: beware that I may or may not be talking poo."

mind if I plagerize that?

... that is if I can figure out that signature thingywhatsist

lol....that is good stuff....

yankeedag wrote:
Does this mean from now on I have to add at the bottom of my post: I may or may not be talking poo.

Caution: I may or may not be talking poo.

Well all I can say is anyone that is not going to take advice from the folks on this forum, Narrow Minds waste lots of good information.
The advice from our forum brothers is priceless, if you don't want it, that is your loss.

Yep. Just as long as you still keep it within a reasonable range. It is during primary fermentation that all of your off flavor are going to be produced. Once kruasen has dropped out temp is not as big of an issue. Keep in mind that yeast hate temp swings. So raise it and set it.

+1

What's that smell? Sorry. Must be my poo-breath.

I've never tried a commercial Fat Tire beer, but I found a recipe that looked good and put it on my list of upcoming brews.

Does this look about right, or could it use some tweeking? Maybe Gold Malt Extract instead of Amber???

PHAT TYRE AMBER ALE
IBU: 36, SRM: 14, ABV: 5.5%
3.15 lb. Amber Malt Extract
0.2 lb. Victory Malt (steeped)
0.2 lb. Briess Caramel 60 (steeped)
0.4 oz. Perle (60min)
0.5 oz. Hallertauer (15min)
Safale US-05

SweetLuu wrote:
I've never tried a commercial Fat Tire beer, but I found a recipe that looked good and put it on my list of upcoming brews.

Does this look about right, or could it use some tweeking? Maybe Gold Malt Extract instead of Amber???

PHAT TYRE AMBER ALE
IBU: 36, SRM: 14, ABV: 5.5%
3.15 lb. Amber Malt Extract
0.2 lb. Victory Malt (steeped)
0.2 lb. Briess Caramel 60 (steeped)
0.4 oz. Perle (60min)
0.5 oz. Hallertauer (15min)
Safale US-05

Doesn't Victory Malt need to be mashed? (I'm asking... not trying to criticize)

Your clone is going to be darker than New Belgium's brew. I think if you really want to get your taste close to Fat Tire, you probably want to consider D-Rock's American Amber II or maybe 1762-W - Belgian Abbey II. I also think D-Rock's hop selection and schedule will give you a closer taste.

BUT... you say you've never had New Belgium's, and I think this recipe looks good. I'm not sure I would advertise it as a Fat Tire clone unless you are feeding it to people like my wife who thinks anything darker than Bud but lighter than a Stout is "like Fat Tire"

I've never heard of Fat Tire before I saw the recipe on Northern Brewers website. This is the summery for their recipe:

"One of the most requested additions to our lineup of beer kits, this is not your typical amber ale—patterned after Belgian-style pale ales, which might be described as slightly less bitter, more fruity versions of English pale ales. Our Phat Tyre kit is copper-red with a fruity, slightly spicy aroma and flavor that comes from a combination of yeast and hops. A blend of caramel and Victory malts creates a sweet, toasty, bready character that lingers from the aroma through the finish. Make sure to stash a six-pack for yourself, because this one's a crowd pleaser."

They also recommend Wyeast #1762 Belgian Abbey II as their liquid yeast of choice for this recipe.

Here's a link -

www.newbelgium.com/beer/fat-tire