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JohnnyPalm

May have accidentally used Mr Beer sanitized water instead of purified water for the boil

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What if one may have used 4 cups of sanitized water instead of plain purified water for the HME Boil? I boiled the water for about 45 minutes with a hop sack and dried tangerine peel. Did I ruin the batch? its fermenting like crazy with lots of krausen.

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Not certain about the sanitizer (can't imagine it would be particularly tasty), but what recipe calls for boiling HME for 45 minutes with a hopsack and tangerine peel? Or is it just the tangerine peel and hopsack in the water? Usually there's a sugar content in the hop boil, but not HME.

 

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If it was me, I'd pull a little taste sample and see if it tastes like medicine. A little sanitizer won't hurt a thing, but 4 cups is probably going to make a mess of it. boiling it would probably reduce the chemical content, but who knows what it did to the hop profile or how it interacted with the tangerine.

Maybe someone else has done the same thing and had it turn out okay. 

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Might be wrong here, but I thought I read something about that stuff turning into something like hydrogen peroxide. 

If so, I found this:

However, drinking more than a tiny amount of hydrogen peroxide or taking it at higher concentrations is definitely unsafe. By doing so, you put yourself at risk of serious problems, including:
 
  • Burns in the mouth, throat, esophagus, and stomach
  • Bleeding in the stomach

 

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Just to clarify - you made up a batch of Mr. Beer No-Rinse Cleanser, mixing 1/2 packet with a gallon of water.  You then later used this sanitizer mix as the 4 cups of water for your boil?  So your brew is comprised of a quart of sanitizer mix, then evaporating the water (making it slightly more concentrated), plus a can of HME and then the initial gallon of water plus top off water?  

 

First - do NOT taste it now.  The sanitizer converts over time to be harmless (when used as directed), and it is NOT harmless now.

 

Then, you need to sit down and figure out what you ended up with.  You have .75 oz (1/2 packet) of sanitizer mixed with just over 2 gallons of liquid, and you won't be drinking it for 7+ weeks.  This is basically hydrogen peroxide, which over time breaks down (it doesn't turn into hydrogen peroxide, it IS hydrogen peroxide).  So the question is whether in 7 weeks the diluted solution is safe.  I would send an email to ldcarlson@ldcarlson.com and ask them - explaining the final dilution.  I expect the answer is that it will be fine.

 

Now - the important point here is that your process is broken and you need to fix it.  Many have poured wort into an LBK containing sanitizer solution.   You poured it into a pot from some container, and that container clearly isn't properly labeled.  

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I dont think I did use it. I just had a brainfart and and looked at the bottles and said Self... pay more attention. My sanitation jug has the word sanitizer written on it and I keep it out of the way.  It was empty and my sanitizing bowl was full so I dont think I used it in the boil. The father in law was asking me all kinds of questions while I was brewing and bottling. I usually do this alone on Sunday. 

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3 hours ago, HoppySmile! said:

I mentally block out everything and anything when I brew, and if someone asks me a bunch of questions while i'm busy making awesome beer, I just nod to agree with everything they say....

I make 'em taste the back of my hand and then scream at them, "No brew for you!!"  

 

JK Johnny.  Hope it works out for you.

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i worked in the food service industry for a while and if liquid sanitizer got or you even thought it did get in any food we HAD TO CHUCK IT!!!! i would start over even if you are 1 percent unsure. we all know the residue is safe but you cannot have liquid sanitizer in any form anywhere in food....I would rather spend a couple bucks and start over

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Side note: Why boil hops in plain water, or water with tangerines? That really doesn't give you much.

 

Long/technical post warning

tl;dr: Most of what was posted above was incomplete and/or inaccurate. It's safe to use, but the "sanitizer" may not produce optimal results.

 

Now for a more full explanation.

 

First of all, why did I put sanitizer in quotation marks? Because for something to be labeled as a sanitizer, there are all of hoops to jump through and fees to be paid. If you look at the Mr Beer sanitizer packets, you'll see they're labeled cleaner. Does that mean that Mr Beer sanitizer doesn't sanitize? No. It just means it can't be labeled as a sanitizer. It used to be labeled as such, but they decided to stop jumping through all of the hoops and start labeling it a cleaner.

 

I worked in the food service industry for years, and the liquid sanitizer used in the food service industry is a very different product. The fact that contact with it contaminated food has no bearing here. The sanitizer we're using here is a no-rinse sanitizer, so it will obviously be in contact with items we're using/

 

Now, on to the main event.

 

The no rinse sanitizer/cleaner is an oxygen cleaner. As previously mentioned, when added to water, it creates hydrogen peroxide. As with other oxygen cleaners, its main ingredients are sodium percarbonate and sodium carbonate. These are the same main ingredients in Oxiclean. So why use Oxiclean only as a cleaner and not as a sanitizer? Because we don't know the concentration for Oxiclean, so we don't know how much would be needed to sanitize. We know that with the Mr Beer product. As a side note, I know of one person who uses Oxiclean as a sanitizer, but I think he's nuts.

 

When you mix it with water, you get H2O2.

 

But what happens to the sodium? It stays behind. i

H2O2 degrades to water and O2 at room temperature pretty quickly in the presence of light or air. If you boil it, it happent s pretty much instantaneously. If you boiled it for even a few minutes, there's no H2O2 left.

 

Now we get to the sodium. It didn't leave. It didn't boil off. In fact, when boiled, it became more concentrated (not less).

 

So you've now got some extra sodium in the brew. That may make it taste a bit salty. Other than that, there's no danger.

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11 hours ago, bpgreen said:

So you've now got some extra sodium in the brew. That may make it taste a bit salty. Other than that, there's no danger.

 

That was what I thought about it...Probably not dangerous to taste or maybe even consume, but likely to be off in some way that might make it unpalatable. I wouldn't hesitate to give it a taste test to put my mind at ease about it. If it tastes like sweet/flat/yeasty beer after a few days in primary, it's good to go. If it tastes nasty in some way, toss it and get something else into primary asap.

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21 minutes ago, RickBeer said:

Right now it has hydrogen peroxide in it,

 

12 hours ago, bpgreen said:

If you boil it, it happent s pretty much instantaneously. If you boiled it for even a few minutes, there's no H2O2 left.

 

Spit it out, then...There either is or there isn't a trace of it in there. If it's there you won't have any doubt about it (I've used diluted peroxide as a mouth rinse and it makes me gag instantly).

And if it's there, I'd cut my losses. If it's not...no worries. Just my opinion. ;)

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A 45 minute boil should have converted the peroxide to oxygen and water. As for the taste, as BPGreen pointed out, the sodium may add a salty taste. When I did graduate school work in the lab we boiled stuff in Hydrogen peroxide to get rid of all the organic material (it was a nasty, and somewhat dangerous process). You can figure that most of your hop oils have and flavors from the orange have been greatly reduced. Just a note for future reference -hop boils are usually done with some malt. One last thought, The "hardness" of the water due to the carbonate and the pH may be quite high. 

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