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Creeps McLane

So Long Summer Saison

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I looked through the archives for a saison recipe. I see one using american ale and one using both czech and CAL. Does it really matter the HME since a traditional saison is kind of made with whatevers laying around? As long as i use saison yeast its a saison right? I have CAL, American Ale, American Lager and a few weiss. 

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u know I never knew what or how to pronounce saison lol! it just tasted good!, just like Gose beer, i'm thinking in my head " Goose", but it's pronounced as goes-uh? I think I read on mr. beer

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1 hour ago, HoppySmile! said:

u know I never knew what or how to pronounce saison lol! it just tasted good!, just like Gose beer, i'm thinking in my head " Goose", but it's pronounced as goes-uh? I think I read on mr. beer

 

Yeah, it's pronounced "goes-uh". And gueze (a type of lambic blend) is pronounced "gooze".

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13 hours ago, Creeps McLane said:

I looked through the archives for a saison recipe. I see one using american ale and one using both czech and CAL. Does it really matter the HME since a traditional saison is kind of made with whatevers laying around? As long as i use saison yeast its a saison right? I have CAL, American Ale, American Lager and a few weiss. 

 

That's correct. The grains used aren't as important as the yeast. However, some of the best saisons I've had usually have a pilsner malt base and are usually brewed with a saison yeast and brettanomyces yeast blend. You're looking for a light body with a dry finish. Other than the wheat beer, any of those other refills you have will work for a saison. The American Ale would probably be the best out of the bunch.

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I make a mean wheat 'saison' ... a little Valencia orange.. a teeny bit of anise...  a dibbie of coriander...  a dash of quality honey... danstar bella saison yeast and ferment at 74f the whole time.  'say-sohns' were as mentioned farmhouse ales thrown together in winter so that the field hands would have something to drink come spring or summer.  there are no real chiseled in stone rules for saison other than the yeast selection as farms used whatever they had on hand.

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9 hours ago, Creeps McLane said:

Farm-how-se-ail

here I was looking at this and pronouncing it out loud, then saying to myself is the "son" in saison silent? bcuz Farm-how-se-ail doesn't sound like anything to that?? then it hit me! Godd One! Creeps! I just got off work and had only one guzzle out of this cheap beer I bought, so my brain isn't functioning right now....

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10 hours ago, HoppySmile! said:

saison

is it a French pronunciation? Wow! that's a big word for me! that just came right out as I typed with my one finger lightening speed!!!

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On 8/9/2016 at 10:34 AM, MRB Josh R said:

 

That's correct. The grains used aren't as important as the yeast. However, some of the best saisons I've had usually have a pilsner malt base and are usually brewed with a saison yeast and brettanomyces yeast blend. You're looking for a light body with a dry finish. Other than the wheat beer, any of those other refills you have will work for a saison. The American Ale would probably be the best out of the bunch.

Sounds pretty good.  I've been wanting to do a Saison before the summer heat leaves.

I've got two cans of American Ale.  Could I make a Saison using both of them, plus the Belle Saison yeast, plus 1/2 oz of Sterling hops, plus 1 cup of honey?  Qbrew says it might be 7.4% ABV with a light color...but will the bitterness be okay for a Saison?  Boil the hops for 5 minutes, remove from heat, then add the honey, then the two cans?  I'd like to ferment at 80 deg to 83 deg F for this Saison.  Is that okay?

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k5 if you just boil hops in water without malt, you are making tea.  youll still get SOME flavor and aroma but to be most effective, hops need malt in the water.  if you boil an HME ie a mr beer extract, you risk blowing out the aromatics and flavor they worked hard to put into it.

 

7.4% is on the high end of abv for the style. farmers didn't want the farm hands blotto in the fields while working.  :P if using saison yeast try not to overpower the flavor of the yeast with the flavor of the hops. look to complement it.   (floral , citrus aromatic)

 

you could replace one of the cans of hme with some dme light or extra light (Pilsen).  do a 15 minute boil of just dme and your hops.. flame out then stir in your mr beer malt.  sterling looks like a good choice.. aromatic.. spicy.. floral.  myself I use Czech saaz.  if you are doing a dme boil:  leave plenty of headspace in your pot and watch it like a hawk.  bring the water just about to boiling. remove it from heat. gently stir in the dme and dissolve it well. move pot back to heat and bring temp back up to a slow boil.  youre going to get some foam action for a little while as 'hot break' material forms.  this is when you need to be vigilant for boil overs! if it starts going nuts slide it off the burner for a moment and reduce heat. you don't want dme boiling onto your stove. it is a god awful mess. when you add the hops youll get a little foaming too at first. so give yourself a few inches of headspace in the pot.

 

if using bella saison I found fermenting warm works best.  don't worry about temp control.  let it rise as it wants.. like about 74-85f.  this yeast is a monster. it loves higher temps. it chews through everything so your final grav might be below 1.01.  youre going to want to let it work for the full three weeks. bottle too soon you might get bombs. 

 

saisons are a fun beer for me.. very complex.  you can get yeasty , funky, flowery, perfume-y flavors and aromatics just from the yeast alone!

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15 hours ago, K5WX said:

Sounds pretty good.  I've been wanting to do a Saison before the summer heat leaves.

I've got two cans of American Ale.  Could I make a Saison using both of them, plus the Belle Saison yeast, plus 1/2 oz of Sterling hops, plus 1 cup of honey?  Qbrew says it might be 7.4% ABV with a light color...but will the bitterness be okay for a Saison?  Boil the hops for 5 minutes, remove from heat, then add the honey, then the two cans?  I'd like to ferment at 80 deg to 83 deg F for this Saison.  Is that okay?

 

That's basically the Saison Du Miel recipe. Is that what you were referring to? http://www.mrbeer.com/saison-du-miel-recipe If so, then yes, you can use 2 cans if you wanted to. That would still be within the BJCP style guidelines, too. While it's true that historically, traditional saisons were low ABV, modern saisons can be within a wide ABV range. Anything 3.5-5% is considered a "table saison", anything 5-7% is considered a "standard saison", and anything above 7% is considered a "super saison". The table and super saisons aren't as common as the standard ones. There are even dark saisons 15-22 SRM. That's one of the great things I love about this style is its diversity.

 

IBUs usually range between 20-35 in saisons, but some people are going outside the style a bit with hoppier saisons lately. I don't think the extra can will add too much bitterness to overwhelm the dry, spicy character of the yeast. And those temps are suitable for extracting the desirable funky esters you want in a saison.

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2 hours ago, MRB Josh R said:

 

That's basically the Saison Du Miel recipe. Is that what you were referring to? http://www.mrbeer.com/saison-du-miel-recipe If so, then yes, you can use 2 cans if you wanted to. That would sstill be within the BJCP style guidelines, too. While it's true that historically, traditional saisons were low ABV, modern saisons can be within a wide ABV range. Anything 3.5-5% is considered a "table saison", anything 5-7% is considered a "standard saison", and anything above 7% is considered a "super saison". The table and super saisons aren't as common as the standard ones. There are even dark saisons 15-22 SRM. That's one of the great things I love about this style is its diversity.

 

IBUs usually range between 20-35 in saisons, but some people are going outside the style a bit with hoppier saisons lately. I don't think the extra can will add too much bitterness to overwhelm the dry, spicy character of the yeast. And those temps are suitable for extracting the desirable funky esters you want in a saison.

Thanks for the great information.  Yes, I've been wanting to do your Saison Du Miel for a long time and for some reason was thinking using an extra can of American Ale instead of the LME Golden might make it even better.  I'll stick to your Saison du Miel recipe and get it started next week.  (Why use up a $16.95 can when the $3.49 LME is what's called for?!)

I'm still trying to get my brain around fermenting at such a high temperature.  I'll read-up some more on the Belle Saison yeast.  Like Zorak1066 said, that yeast must be a monster.  But when my home office stays at 80 to 83 deg F during the Texas summers, I've got the perfect place to ferment the Saison.

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8 minutes ago, K5WX said:

Thanks for the great information.  Yes, I've been wanting to do your Saison Du Miel for a long time and for some reason was thinking using an extra can of American Ale instead of the LME Golden might make it even better.  I'll stick to your Saison du Miel recipe and get it started next week.  (Why use up a $16.95 can when the $3.49 LME is what's called for?!)

I'm still trying to get my brain around fermenting at such a high temperature.  I'll read-up some more on the Belle Saison yeast.  Like Zorak1066 said, that yeast must be a monster.  But when my home office stays at 80 to 83 deg F during the Texas summers, I've got the perfect place to ferment the Saison.

 

There are certain strains of yeast that do better at higher temps (Belgian yeasts, some wheat yeasts, and saison yeasts). Not because they ferment better than other yeasts, but because they produce desirable esters at those temps. You can brew at regular brewing temps with a saison yeast, but you will miss out on all the funky "barnyard/farmhouse esters" that the yeast will produce at higher temps.

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I only made 2  that did not use the 2013 seasonal, they were:

#1 - this was a decent result.
1x Bohemian Pilsner HME
1x Golden LME

0.5 lb Briess trad dk DME (or Robust LME)
In bag for all ferment with T-58 yeast:
orange zest (potato peelered)
1 tbsp coriander seed crushed
0.5 oz Tettnanger pellet
Last 7 days of ferment
0.5 oz East Kent Goldings.

 

#2  - meh....

1/2 Belgian Spiced Ale Seasonal HME - mix of DME/Booster,  Orange peel 1 tbs coriander and 0.5 oz saaz  T-58

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My basement brew room stays reasonably cool (fermenting 68-70-ish) through the summer and turns over to lagers come winter. If I move an LBK to our garage or barn, I'll certainly get more heat but will the fluctuation through the day stress the yeast and give the "flop-sweat" esters / cat urine smell? Hey, if some of you more adventurous types use that as an adjunct, I won't judge...

I've run a couple of saison batches to reasonable success (at least to me) but wondered if I was playing too safe with the temps. 

Thanks, all, for the education and overall collaborative/coaching vibe of the community!

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7 hours ago, MRB Josh R said:

 

There are certain strains of yeast that do better at higher temps (Belgian yeasts, some wheat yeasts, and saison yeasts). Not because they ferment better than other yeasts, but because they produce desirable esters at those temps. You can brew at regular brewing temps with a saison yeast, but you will miss out on all the funky "barnyard/farmhouse esters" that the yeast will produce at higher temps.

Some of my favorite brews in Germany were Land Bier (pronounced Lunt) Country Beer

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re bella saison yeast..   I found this on another site one day.  Mashani used to be a regular here so I don't think he would mind me quoting him. this yeast is really amazing!  it is a monster in so many ways... I think its cells are even larger than typical saccharomyces c.

 

quote begins here

 

"I will mention that it is not normal Saccharomyces, but instead a selected mutant of Saccharomyces var. diastaticus, which is normally considered a wild yeast, IE a beer infecting agent. It does not act like normal yeast. It does not have an "attenuation range" as such. It can eat starch. It can eat complex sugars from a high temperature mash. It normally will ferment out ANYTHING (it doesn't matter what your OG is) down to 1.003 or <, maybe even as low as 0.997 or something stupid like that. If it doesn't do that for some people then I have no idea what they are doing, because I've never had it finish at less then 1.004 even in a 1.08 beer. The important thing about this is sanitation. Make sure you kill it if you plan on making things that are not saisons. Otherwise you will get gusher infections or bottle bombs in a future batch of non-saison beer. If you use a spigot, disassemble it and sanitize it. I should also mention that if it is exposed to oxygen for a long enough time after fermentation is complete, it can actually form a pellicle. If left that long it may also coat the sides of your fermenter with a film, and you will have to wipe it down. It can do that in bottles too. It might do it in kegs (I don't know I don't have a keg). But don't freak out if you see one or this happens, it's fine, just bottle it. Most people don't because they ferment with an airlock and bottle it before it forms. But it can form one given enough time and some oxygen exposure. It is a wild thing."

 

it was mashani that got me turned onto saisons long ago... 

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Ok, here's my first attempt at a Saison/ Farmhouse Ale. I kinda combined 3 recipes together, and deciding to use the Czech pilsner as my base HME. Here it goes::::::::::

                                                         Saison De Clouseau

 

1- can of Bohemian Czech Pilsner                ( I.B.U. )

4oz. Pilsen malt grain   >>>>>>>>

4 oz. Victory malt grain  >>>>>>>> combine all grains into hop sack and steep @ 145 degrees for 40 min.

4 oz. Munich light grain  >>>>>>>>

1/2 oz. Nelson Sauvin hops                            11.1%- bitter @60min.

1/2 oz. N. Brewer hops                                    9.6% - bitter @ 40 min. 

1/2 Saaz hops                                                  5.3% - aroma @ 20 min

1/2 oz. German Perle  hops                              4.5 %- aroma @ 10 min.

1/2 oz. Strisselspalt hops                                  3.0 % - aroma @ 10 min.

1/2 Calypso hops                                              15 % - flameout @ 5- 10 min.

 Adjuncts/Spices                                                                             .

1/2 oz. dried sweet orange peel    >>>>>>

1/2 oz. dried lemon peel   >>>>>>>>>>>>  combine all into hop sack, add to 20 min. boil of hops

1 teaspoon crushed coriander seed   >>>>

1 lb orange blossom honey  >>>>>>>>>> add both honey and LME @ flameout

1 lb Pilsen malt LME  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 Yeast

Mangrove Jack's French Saison dry yeast>>>>> brew @ 75 degrees for 3 to 4 weeks

 

 

 

Will be bottling this in a few days. I think it's a winner in my book!!!

 

 

 

 

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On ‎11‎/‎29‎/‎2016 at 3:20 PM, HoppySmile! said:

Ok, here's my first attempt at a Saison/ Farmhouse Ale. I kinda combined 3 recipes together, and deciding to use the Czech pilsner as my base HME. Here it goes::::::::::

                                                         Saison De Clouseau

 

1- can of Bohemian Czech Pilsner                ( I.B.U. )

4oz. Pilsen malt grain   >>>>>>>>

4 oz. Victory malt grain  >>>>>>>> combine all grains into hop sack and steep @ 145 degrees for 40 min.

4 oz. Munich light grain  >>>>>>>>

1/2 oz. Nelson Sauvin hops                            11.1%- bitter @60min.

1/2 oz. N. Brewer hops                                    9.6% - bitter @ 40 min. 

1/2 Saaz hops                                                  5.3% - aroma @ 20 min

1/2 oz. German Perle  hops                              4.5 %- aroma @ 10 min.

1/2 oz. Strisselspalt hops                                  3.0 % - aroma @ 10 min.

1/2 Calypso hops                                              15 % - flameout @ 5- 10 min.

 Adjuncts/Spices                                                                             .

1/2 oz. dried sweet orange peel    >>>>>>

1/2 oz. dried lemon peel   >>>>>>>>>>>>  combine all into hop sack, add to 20 min. boil of hops

1 teaspoon crushed coriander seed   >>>>

1 lb orange blossom honey  >>>>>>>>>> add both honey and LME @ flameout

1 lb Pilsen malt LME  >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 Yeast

Mangrove Jack's French Saison dry yeast>>>>> brew @ 75 degrees for 3 to 4 weeks

 

 

 

Will be bottling this in a few days. I think it's a winner in my book!!!

 

 

 

 

it came out better than expected, gave most of it away to friends who love saisons, and asked them to wait an additional 2 months before trying it. the lemon peel should have been cut back to maybe 1/4 oz, it kinda over powered some of the flavor, however, over all I think it was a success!

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                                                                                             Scene 1, Take Two

                                                                                                   Belle Saison

 

  Mr. Beer HME's:

1- can HME   Bohemian Czech Pilsner

1- can HME  Bavarian Weissbier

 Additional Grains:

4 oz. Munich Light Malt Grain

4 oz. Pilsner Malt Grain

4 oz.  Light Wheat Grain

1 oz.   Honey Malt Grain,    All steeped together if possible @ 145 degrees for approx. 30 minutes.

Hops:                                                                                                      IBU's

 1/2 oz. Sorachi Ace @ 60 min. boil ( bittering)                                12.0 % Alpha

 1 oz.     Nelson Sauvin @ 40 min ( aroma)                                       11.1 % alpha                                

 1/2 oz.  German Magnum @ 20 min. ( aroma)                                 13.2 % alpha

1/2 oz.    Hallertau Mittlefruh @ 10 min. ( aroma)                            2.6 % alpha

1/2 oz.    Strisselspalt @ 5 min. ( aroma)                                            3.0 % alpha

1/4 oz.    Calypso @ flame out                                                               14.9 % alpha

 

Adjuncts:

2 teaspoons of crushed Coriander seed

 1 oz. of   Dried Sweet Orange Peel

  1/4 oz.    Dried Lemon Peel                                    Add at 20 min. boil in one hop sack

 

  2 lbs of    Orange Blossum Honey

  1 lb of      Pilsen Malt LME                                         add  both @ flameout

 

 

 You can add a booster pack if wanting a lil more kick, but I think the total malt additons will produce sufficient ABV%.

 

 

 

          Lallemand's Belle Saison dry yeast will be used this time instead of the Mangrove Jacks French Saison dry yeast. I want to make a comparsion of the two.

 

 

 

 

 

      

 

 

 

 

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22 hours ago, HoppySmile! said:

                                                                                             Scene 1, Take Two

                                                                                                   Belle Saison

 

  Mr. Beer HME's:

1- can HME   Bohemian Czech Pilsner

1- can HME  Bavarian Weissbier

 Additional Grains:

4 oz. Munich Light Malt Grain

4 oz. Pilsner Malt Grain

4 oz.  Light Wheat Grain

1 oz.   Honey Malt Grain,    All steeped together if possible @ 145 degrees for approx. 30 minutes.

Hops:                                                                                                      IBU's

 1/2 oz. Sorachi Ace @ 60 min. boil ( bittering)                                12.0 % Alpha

 1 oz.     Nelson Sauvin @ 40 min ( aroma)                                       11.1 % alpha                                

 1/2 oz.  German Magnum @ 20 min. ( aroma)                                 13.2 % alpha

1/2 oz.    Hallertau Mittlefruh @ 10 min. ( aroma)                            2.6 % alpha

1/2 oz.    Strisselspalt @ 5 min. ( aroma)                                            3.0 % alpha

1/4 oz.    Calypso @ flame out                                                               14.9 % alpha

 

Adjuncts:

2 teaspoons of crushed Coriander seed

 1 oz. of   Dried Sweet Orange Peel

  1/4 oz.    Dried Lemon Peel                                    Add at 20 min. boil in one hop sack

 

  2 lbs of    Orange Blossum Honey

  1 lb of      Pilsen Malt LME                                         add  both @ flameout

 

 

 You can add a booster pack if wanting a lil more kick, but I think the total malt additons will produce sufficient ABV%.

 

 

 

          Lallemand's Belle Saison dry yeast will be used this time instead of the Mangrove Jacks French Saison dry yeast. I want to make a comparsion of the two.

 

 

 

 

 

      

 

 

 

 

ok, i'm scratchin out this recipe, what i'm trying to attempt is a Boulevard Tank 7 farmhouse ale. I snuck a bottle from the roommate and realize now it's brewed with wheat, and how did I not figure that out b4? probably bcuz I was chugging it instead of enjoying it. so i'm going to repost a new Tank 7 recipe after I brew it up this saturday

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On ‎1‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 8:18 AM, HoppySmile! said:

it came out better than expected, gave most of it away to friends who love saisons, and asked them to wait an additional 2 months before trying it. the lemon peel should have been cut back to maybe 1/4 oz, it kinda over powered some of the flavor, however, over all I think it was a success!

leave the lemon peel as is, stole back a bottle I hid from myself and tried it, and I have to, it's one of the better beers I've made. I really think my favorite extract of Mr. Beer has got to be the Czech Pilsner, its so versatile, and finishes really clear. planning to make a 5 gallon batch of this this weekend if I don't have to work

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