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Nickfixit

Best Belgian Wit.

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Batch 1 LBK #3, WLP400 wit beer.

Looks good, as light as I can get with Bav WB HME. Fairly tart, a bit citrus, no coriander nose/taste

It needs more peel bitterness (pith)  less citrus and more coriander.

 

WLP400 wit 20170203_125723.jpg

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2 minutes ago, Nickfixit said:

Batch 1 LBK #3, WLP400 wit beer.

Looks good, as light as I can get with Bav WB HME. Fairly tart, a bit citrus, no coriander nose/taste

It needs more peel bitterness (pith)  less citrus and more coriander.

 

WLP400 wit 20170203_125723.jpg

still looks good... 😊🍺

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10 minutes ago, Stroomer420 said:

still looks good... 😊🍺

Yeah I enjoyed it, but I am after the Hoegaarden taste.

And I have to please actual Belgians with this - lol - which ups the ante.

Of the 3 in this batch, this one was preferred in January, even though not really matured.

In later reading, even though Forbidden Fruit yeast is touted as a WIt yeast, and a Hoegaarden yeast, I think they use it for their Forbidden Fruit beer, so it may not be same yeast used for Wit Blanche. I do see WLP400, Wyeast 3944 listed as equivalents.

I see Northern Brewer uses T-58 in their "Gaarden Hoe" kit, probably easier to ship dry yeast but interesting  idea, I never used T-58 with Wit before.

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I really want to brew up a Wheat IPA.  I was toying with the idea of calling it Half Wit IPA.  I was going to call it Nit Wit IPA, but that would be just plain stupid!

 

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I did start another with WLP400 and close to same peel and coriander amounts, but no malted grain int he steepm just flaked wheat and oatmeal, but I did add a little hop  saaz and styrian goldings 1/8 oz ea. for a 5-10 min boil then took them out and tool the coriander and peel out. Now fermenting at 66 deg. will warm it up in a day or 2.

 

I decided I would try more spice in one brew so I added scalded crushed coriander (1 tsp) and cumin (1/16 tsp) to one of the Round 2 brews. (Of the 2 that were very close (actually LBK #1)

 

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1 hour ago, HoppySmile! said:

been wanting to do a wit, just a little dim on how to go about it? can u post a basic recipe that you've brewed up Nick?

OK there are a few options depending on your taste.

You are experienced enough to adapt anyway you want. The simple recipe will be mild and refreshing and a little tart. Then you can amp it up in any way you want next time.

 

Start with Mr B Bavarian Weissbier and a wheat yeast. You can use Mr B yeast or more to style, Belgian Yeast like WLP400 or Wyeast Belgian ones are better.

The HME is in the proper IBU range already so you don't need more bittering but you can add some hop for flavor or aroma depending but you don't have to.

The beer is flavored with citrus peel. Traditional is dried bitter orange peel but many people in USA prefer fresh zest grated off sweet oranges. 

It is also flavored with crushed coriander seeds and optionally other spices to taste.

You can do a partial mash - or not. Steep of oats and flaked wheat (and optionally light grain malt (pilsner) will help give body and haziness.

You can boil the peel and spices and take them out before fermenting (Like Hoegaarden say) or leave them in when fermenting. I guess the amounts and flavors will be a little different.

 

So here is an easy one to try

If you want to do partial mash (but you don't have to), you can do a) 4 oz inst oatmeal, or b ) oatmeal and 4 oz flaked wheat, or c) oatmeal, wheat and 4 oz pilsner malt.

All will work in differing degrees. Rice hulls may help but I did not try yet. Make this liquid up to 4 cups for next step if you do.

 

Dissolve I pack booster or 1 pack pale/pilsner LME/DME in 4 cups water. Booster will be lighter less malty color beer.

Bring to boil, add 1 orange zest and 1 tbs crushed coriander in a hop bag  and optionally 0.5 oz. Saaz pellets and boil 5 min. (If using dried peel some say to boil it 15 min) . (If using dried peel try peel in the 5-10 gm range and similarly coriander .)

Take off heat, dissolve 1 Bavarian WB HME , add wort and spice bag to cool water in LBK and top up.

Pitch yeast in high 60's ferment a week then bring up to low 70s for 2 weeks (You can do it all at 70 but this is claimed preferred)

Bottle etc. leave 6 weeks +

 

For comparison at beer store get a bottle of Belgian Wit  - Hoegaarden Blanche or Brasserie Lefebvre Blanche de Bruxelles. They use the dried peel so will be a bit different but authentic.

 

I have also made them hoppy with 1.5 oz hops in but it is not authentic - lol.

 

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Batch 2.5 #1 WLP400 saved and no barley malt in the grain steep. I think this is closest yet. I am making a 6 pack in Hoegaarden bottles anyway. :D

 

Color looks good. Smell is close, taste is more citrus. I am not sure how much this will fade in 2 months but I am hoping it will fade some.

wit batch 2#4.png

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Just started another batch. All prior batches had about 3x the peel and coriander that were needed. I read a lot of recipes but somehow I confused the amounts and put spices in my 2 gal LBK adequate for a 5 gal.  So it is much more citrusy than style but quite drinkable. They will not go to waste on hot summer days.

This one I put in about 2 grams of each only. I used a 15 min boil in the booster and steeping liquor,  then took the spices out before adding the HME and fermenting it.

 

It is bubbling happily (thanks to saved WLP400 trub)  ext to 6 gal of Cooper's Sparkling Ale. (One to recipe, one with 1/2 oz Pride of Ringwood at flameout, another with Pride of Ringwood  tea, 1/2 oz in 30 min steep (liquid only). I will say they do smell different, but very fruity.

 

Bottom left - labeled "Wit Less" (less spices)

brews 032717).png

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2 minutes ago, Nickfixit said:

Just started another batch. All prior batches had about 3x the peel and coriander that were needed. I read a lot of recipes but somehow I confused the amounts and put spices in my 2 gal LBK adequate for a 5 gal.  So it is much more citrusy than style but quite drinkable. They will not go to waste on hot summer days.

This one I put in about 2 grams of each only. I used a 15 min boil in the booster and steeping liquor,  then took the spices out before adding the HME and fermenting it.

 

It is bubbling happily (thanks to saved WLP400 trub)  ext to 6 gal of Cooper's Sparkling Ale. (One to recipe, one with 1/2 oz Pride of Ringwood at flameout, another with Pride of Ringwood  tea, 1/2 oz in 30 min steep (liquid only). I will say they do smell different, but very fruity.

 

Bottom left - labeled "Wit Less" (less spices)

brews 032717).png

 

I am going to venture a guess Nick, that Belgian Wit is your favorite style? Nice!

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The 6 gal of Cooper's Sparkling Ale. (One to recipe, one with 1/2 oz Pride of Ringwood at flameout, another with Pride of Ringwood  tea, 1/2 oz in 30 min steep (liquid only). I will say they do smell different, but very fruity.

 

The one with the hops left in has a distinctly different smell of the hop bitterness. The others smell fruity but not the same tang. It will be interesting to compare them in a couple of months.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Bonsai & Brew said:

 

I am going to venture a guess Nick, that Belgian Wit is your favorite style? Nice!

It is one of my favorite, this one is what I was trying to develop for a Belgian guest coming in May. The first experiments ( 7 LBKs worth) while interesting and tasty, have not been to style, this latest hopefully will be. I hasd looked at a bunch of recipes and tried various things you can read above.

 

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Also some learning. e.g. I don't need barley in my grain steep. I am not trying to make  more alcohol, I want it for taste and texture so enzyme conversion to sugars is not needed. Also  Barley malt (or any malt) darkens it. The booster works great to add the extra strength and character. I don't need more taste except white wheat taste.

 

Time does reduce the citrus flavor from too much peel a bit but not a lot.

Aromatic Malt is not the right flavor although it is a good flavor (I saw some Wit recipes that used it)

WLP400 is a better yeast for it than Forbidden Fruit. The FF would be good for Barley based Belgian Ales - too fruity here.

Home made dried bitter orange peel is as good as store dried peel. (I now have enough for a lifetime - barring a medical miracle.)

Still no conclusion on Supermarket (round coriander seeds ) vs Indian store coriander (oval seeds.)

 

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2 hours ago, Nickfixit said:

Also some learning. e.g. I don't need barley in my grain steep. I am not trying to make  more alcohol, I want it for taste and texture so enzyme conversion to sugars is not needed. Also  Barley malt (or any malt) darkens it. The booster works great to add the extra strength and character. I don't need more taste except white wheat taste.

 

You still need to convert the flaked grains. The enzymes don't just convert starches to sugars for alcohol. They also convert the starches to dextrins (this is where you get your body and mouthfeel). You ALWAYS need to use some 2-row for your batch to convert the starches. If you don't, these starches can be breeding grounds for bacteria. You will always get better results by converting your flaked grains. Otherwise, they don't really do anything, but cloud your beer with starch that bacteria just loves feeding on. A few oz of 2-row will not darken your beer, especially if you use pilsen malt instead (it's just a lighter 2-row). For the best conversion, use 6-row.

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On ‎3‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 3:12 PM, MRB Josh R said:

 

You still need to convert the flaked grains. The enzymes don't just convert starches to sugars for alcohol. They also convert the starches to dextrins (this is where you get your body and mouthfeel). You ALWAYS need to use some 2-row for your batch to convert the starches. If you don't, these starches can be breeding grounds for bacteria. You will always get better results by converting your flaked grains. Otherwise, they don't really do anything, but cloud your beer with starch that bacteria just loves feeding on. A few oz of 2-row will not darken your beer, especially if you use pilsen malt instead (it's just a lighter 2-row). For the best conversion, use 6-row.

OK last time I used 4 oz of American 2 row and it was much too dark. Maybe 2 oz Pilsen will be better. I will see.

I am sure in the past I have seen recipes using just oatmeal steeped. Maybe you have revised them so there is no lone grain without 2/6 row.

 

Anyway can I get a bacteria infection without knowing it?

 

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I bottled the latest version and it was still too citrusy. Next time even less. Those peels are really strong.

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22 minutes ago, Nickfixit said:

OK last time I used 4 oz of American 2 row and it was much too dark. Maybe 2 oz Pilsen will be better. I will see.

I am sure in the past I have seen recipes using just oatmeal steeped. Maybe you have revised them so there is no lone grain without 2/6 row.

 

Anyway can I get a bacteria infection without knowing it?

 

 

Pilsen will work fine, but I seriously doubt 4 oz of 2-row will change your color more than 1-2 SRM points. It's dark because you're using liquid malt extract. This is completely normal in liquid extract brewing. If you want to avoid the darker-than-normal colors, switch to using all dry malt extract or all-grain.

 

Those recipes are incorrect.

 

No, if you get an infection, you will know it.

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So far they are all WAAAY TOO citrusy. :angry:

 

The latest I used crushed coriander 2g, and dried bitter orange peel 1.5g  boil for 15 min.  remove spices This based on 5g and 11 g recipes that called for 7 g peel.

 

I tried a partial dregs bottle after 10 days and it was too citrusy but I did get a lot of sediment into it as I  swirled the yeast into it so maybe there was a bunch of extra flavor  in there. I will wait another 3 weeks and see if it is better. But it is a bit disappointing so far.

 

 

 

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