AnthonyC

Advice from the Old Master

23 posts in this topic

actually our city prides itself on its newer water filtration/purifying system they spent millions on to perfect the taste. I believe we have the top 10 best tasting water in the U.S. but it wasn't always that pleasant. now I quit using bottled water and have been using the tap water and so much to my surprise I really can't make the difference between the two! but yea, at first it was all bottled/ spring water for me. research and experimentation does pay off! and of course a lil help from above! RIP JIM!

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Just to point out - water chemistry is much more than using bottled spring water.  Certain styles of beer benefit from certain types of water.  For example, English Pale Ales are brewed with Burton-On_Trent water, which is a very high sulphate content.  Other types of beer from other areas have very different water.  Some helps darker beers, some helps lighter beers, some helps hoppy beers.  

 

A great resource is Water: A Comprehensive Guide for Brewers by John Palmer and Colin Kaminski.

 

Here's some info from Palmer's How to Brew: http://howtobrew.com/book/section-3/understanding-the-mash-ph/residual-alkalinity-and-mash-ph

 

Note - water chemistry will not greatly affect extract brews.  If the water tastes good, it should brew good extract recipes.  You want to eliminate the chlorine (let the water sit out for 24 hours), but otherwise if it tastes good the beer should be good.  Minor additions to the water can accentuate things like hops.

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3 hours ago, AnthonyC said:

"It's your water."

Vs Olympia beer where "It's The Water" :) #MyHometown

Yes, water is one thing that a lot of newer brewers overlook... until it smacks them in the face!  I admit, I was one of them.   Like RickBeer said above, "water chemistry will not greatly affect extract brews.".  This is true and like he also said, minor addition (like Gypsum) can accentuate things like hops.

However, if you do AG brews, water chemistry is a big thing that you will want to research.  It took me a long time before I finally did because I was in the "My water tastes good, why worry about it" column.  But, when I started doing 10gal batches using distilled water as a base and adjusting the water using different minerals and such (as seen in the picture), not only did the beers really POP, the clarity increased, the flavors, the aromas and overall, WOW, what a difference.  It was one of those things where I said "What took me so danm long?!?!"  I wont brew an AG recipe without knowing what my water profile is and adjusting it to what I want to make that beer that much better :)

minerals.thumb.jpg.b724e9d239f600db359928c347b5492f.jpg

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1 hour ago, RickBeer said:

Just to point out - water chemistry is much more than using bottled spring water.  Certain styles of beer benefit from certain types of water.  For example, English Pale Ales are brewed with Burton-On_Trent water, which is a very high sulphate content.  Other types of beer from other areas have very different water.  Some helps darker beers, some helps lighter beers, some helps hoppy beers.  

 

A great resource is Water: A Comprehensive Guide for Brewers by John Palmer and Colin Kaminski.

 

Here's some info from Palmer's How to Brew: http://howtobrew.com/book/section-3/understanding-the-mash-ph/residual-alkalinity-and-mash-ph

 

Note - water chemistry will not greatly affect extract brews.  If the water tastes good, it should brew good extract recipes.  You want to eliminate the chlorine (let the water sit out for 24 hours), but otherwise if it tastes good the beer should be good.  Minor additions to the water can accentuate things like hops.

Thanks, Rick.  My water is well water sans chlorine, but it has an immense amount of mineral content.  Every few months we have to unspool the diffusers on the sinks and remove the white calcified build up.  Ever since I've switched to spring water (thank you, Jim!), my beer has been much better.  Honestly I only ever noticed it in my IPA recipes.  They were all tasting the same: Kama Citra, Dead Ringer, Galaxy IPA, and Island Hopper.  It was VERY disheartening!  

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Understand.


I too have well water, and my water goes through a water softener, which doesn't add a lot of salt.  Water softeners are a no-no with all grain also.  When I move to all grain, I will get a water analysis done from before the filter and softener to figure out what water treatment I might need.

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I run my cold water through a charcoal filter under the sink, and its seems equivalent to bottled water in terms of taste. In other words, enough minerals are left so that it does not taste flat like distilled water, there is no hint of chlorine, and the pH is exactly 7. I stopped using spring water, as I could not discern any taste difference in the beers (but my taste buds are admittedly not very refined)

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7 hours ago, RickBeer said:

Understand.


I too have well water, and my water goes through a water softener, which doesn't add a lot of salt.  Water softeners are a no-no with all grain also.  When I move to all grain, I will get a water analysis done from before the filter and softener to figure out what water treatment I might need.

I said say what????

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13 hours ago, Creeps McLane said:

I said say what????

 

Yeah, it will happen.  RickBeer has been taking classes in a Brewing and Distillation Technology program.  4 of the 7 done (4.0 in each), 3 more planned for this Fall.  Goal is to know more than @MRB Josh R... (nope that's not going to happen).  Knowledge will let me go far with all grain, plus possibly open a brewery or join one, although not as a brewer, can't handle the physical impact on my older body.

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17 minutes ago, RickBeer said:

 

Yeah, it will happen.  RickBeer has been taking classes in a Brewing and Distillation Technology program.  4 of the 7 done (4.0 in each), 3 more planned for this Fall.  Goal is to know more than @MRB Josh R... (nope that's not going to happen).  Knowledge will let me go far with all grain, plus possibly open a brewery or join one, although not as a brewer, can't handle the physical impact on my older body.

I love it when a man refers to himself in the 3rd person!  ?

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@RickBeer - Grats on the 4.0s!

 

Study is good for the mind.

I take free online classes for fun so I get test scores for feedback but no credits. 

I just finished this one https://www.class-central.com/mooc/2907/edx-molecular-biology-part-1-dna-replication-and-repair 

And before that, this one https://www.mooc-list.com/course/autonomous-mobile-robots-uji

Takes a lot of work though. I am taking a break for the summer. 

 

 

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On ‎6‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 10:06 AM, RickBeer said:

Note - water chemistry will not greatly affect extract brews.  If the water tastes good, it should brew good extract recipes.  You want to eliminate the chlorine (let the water sit out for 24 hours), but otherwise if it tastes good the beer should be good.  Minor additions to the water can accentuate things like hops.

 

I have not tried this to test the difference but won't the chlorine come out in the first 24 hours of fermentation?

Some say that aeration helps too for dissolved chlorine gas- maybe also CO2 bubble production?

Some varied opinions

https://www.quora.com/How-long-does-it-take-chlorine-to-off-gas-from-city-tap-water

 

Chloramine maybe different. I also read Campden tablets will remove chloramines in 24 hrs. 1 crushed tab. per 10 gal. Also some water filters but maybe you don't want to remove minerals.

 

Effect of chloramines - chlorophenols in wort.

https://www.h2odistributors.com/pages/contaminants/contaminant-chloramines.asp

Says - When brewing beer with tap or bottled water, chlorine and chloramine present in the water can combine with malt phenols in the wort to create a compound called chlorophenol, which can give the beer a medicinal taste - this could add twang as suggested.

 

 

Either way, a drinking water test can confirm presence of these and might be useful to see if treatment is useful.

Or try the Campden tab treatment & see the difference.

I might just do that since I have been getting some twang recently.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, RickBeer said:

 

Yeah, it will happen.  RickBeer has been taking classes in a Brewing and Distillation Technology program.  4 of the 7 done (4.0 in each), 3 more planned for this Fall.  Goal is to know more than @MRB Josh R... (nope that's not going to happen).  Knowledge will let me go far with all grain, plus possibly open a brewery or join one, although not as a brewer, can't handle the physical impact on my older body.

Best of luck to you sir

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On 6/28/2017 at 8:57 AM, RickBeer said:

 

Yeah, it will happen.  RickBeer has been taking classes in a Brewing and Distillation Technology program.  4 of the 7 done (4.0 in each), 3 more planned for this Fall.  Goal is to know more than @MRB Josh R... (nope that's not going to happen).  Knowledge will let me go far with all grain, plus possibly open a brewery or join one, although not as a brewer, can't handle the physical impact on my older body.

So... what are your plans? BIAB? Two vessel? Three vessel? 5 gallon batches? Liquid yeast at times possibly? Kegging??? This is a slippery slope my friend. 

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My water goes through a water filter in the fridge and the results have been good so far!

 

My wife did an experiment a few years back - running cheap vodka through multiple Britta Charcoal filters.  The vodka taste improved greatly!  (Maybe we were under the influence after the 10th trip through the filter pitcher though! LOL!)  

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I've decided against using my tap water since I won't even drink it. Extremely hard water with a terrible chlorine taste. Should I use bottles of spring water or would distilled water be better?

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34 minutes ago, jeeps_beagles_and_beer said:

I've decided against using my tap water since I won't even drink it. Extremely hard water with a terrible chlorine taste. Should I use bottles of spring water or would distilled water be better?

 

Good call on not using your tap water.

I use spring water for the wort and the gallon of cold water that's initially added to the LBK, then top off the LBK with water from the fridge filter.  I've never tried using distilled water, but it can be used.

If you like the taste of the spring water, use it.

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1 hour ago, Shrike said:

 

Good call on not using your tap water.

I use spring water for the wort and the gallon of cold water that's initially added to the LBK, then top off the LBK with water from the fridge filter.  I've never tried using distilled water, but it can be used.

If you like the taste of the spring water, use it.

I would not use ONLY distilled water as it has no minerals. But I have used distilled water to dilute the tap water mineral profile for some beers.

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Re IPAs. The last IPAs I made were from Cooper's  IPA refill.

They suggest using their Cooper's yeast and also Nottingham yeast.

I made 3 batches. one with just the Cooper's and  the other 2 using half pack of Notty and 1/6 pack of Coopers.

All taste very clean.

e.g. currently sipping this ....http://store.coopers.com.au/recipes/index/view/id/66/    this was with both yeasts.

see this page for recipes.

http://store.coopers.com.au/recipes/index/list/section/ale

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, jeeps_beagles_and_beer said:

I've decided against using my tap water since I won't even drink it. Extremely hard water with a terrible chlorine taste. Should I use bottles of spring water or would distilled water be better?

 

I think spring water might be better due to the mineral content helping the beer.

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7 hours ago, jeeps_beagles_and_beer said:

I've decided against using my tap water since I won't even drink it. Extremely hard water with a terrible chlorine taste. Should I use bottles of spring water or would distilled water be better?

I use spring water from WalMart. 

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On 10/4/2017 at 9:44 PM, gophers6 said:

I use spring water from WalMart. 

I use my tap, ran though a charcoal filter usually. Occasionally I buy spring water, depends on my mood.

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