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jasbo

Using LME for hop boil additions

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Is there any reason I couldn't add an LME packet to that first 4 cups of water in a Mr. Beer recipe, then boil it for a 15 or 30 minute hop addition? All the Mr. Beer recipes call for DME when hops are being added before flameout, and I wonder why it's always DME, not LME.

 

What I'm looking at is using a can of CAL I have with a Pale LME. To balance the malt addition, I would like to add a packet or two of Cascades during a boil. That way I'd get a little bitterness and flavor and not just the aroma we get with the flameout addition.

 

Jim

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Nope, no reason at all. 

 

But I do remember reading on here a few months back that as you boil the LME, it tends to get darker in color.  The flavor is unchanged, just the color.  So your end product will be a little darker than you expect, too.  And if I recall correctly, DME is unaffected by this, so that's probably why they use it.

 

BTW, your plan for CAL+Pale+Cascades sounds like it'll make a nice beer for a hot summer day.

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DME, when dissolved in water, is LME, so it will darken just the same.  DME weighs less to ship.

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1 hour ago, RickBeer said:

DME, when dissolved in water, is LME, so it will darken just the same.  DME weighs less to ship.

 

That makes sense.

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Not only can you do this, it is pretty much what you have to do when working with hops. You need some malt for them to work their magic.

 

A couple of quick notes - your HME is already hopped and bittered. So be deliberate about "bittering." Really think about what you are doing and why when it comes to the bittering.


My experiments with hops have led me to reconsider mid-range additions (the 30-15 minute range.) For my next two Hoppy CALS I am going to do all hops in the 8 to flameout range.

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17 hours ago, jasbo said:

Is there any reason I couldn't add an LME packet to that first 4 cups of water in a Mr. Beer recipe, then boil it for a 15 or 30 minute hop addition? All the Mr. Beer recipes call for DME when hops are being added before flameout, and I wonder why it's always DME, not LME.

 

What I'm looking at is using a can of CAL I have with a Pale LME. To balance the malt addition, I would like to add a packet or two of Cascades during a boil. That way I'd get a little bitterness and flavor and not just the aroma we get with the flameout addition.

 

Jim

Jim,

 

Essentially that is what you do with a beer that does not use HME.  Just more water and a longer boil. 

 

One thing to consider is that during the boil evaporation will occur.  If you are doing a 30 minute boil you may want to start with 5 cups of water.  A 15 minute boil will result in less water volume but you will make that up with the LME addition.

 

As Mr. Why said, depending on how long you boil you will add flavor and aroma.  If you boil for longer than 30 minutes, you will add more bittering as well.

 

Dawg

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One thing I should have mentioned, and this is not exact, but it is close enough to work with.

 

30 minutes and longer is the "bittering" range. It is where you get the hop bite from (the IBUs).  Since the HMEs are already bittered, doing this adds more bitter.  In this range you want to be careful. And honestly, anything over 10 minutes you want to be careful and deliberate. Take a close look at the Funky Buddha IPA (man I loved that beer) and the new Golden Empire. Both use the Long Play as the base, which has an IBU of 70. The Funky Buddha comes in at 70 IBU. Essentially the base, and the hop boil is 10 minutes. The Golden Empire comes in at 90 IBU. The difference here is the hop boil is 15 minutes. Those extra 5 minutes add 20 IBUs to the base. You will absolutely "taste" this. It is the same with the Dry River Rye recipe. 15 minute hop boil, 90 IBU.

 

And here is the thing....the more you are getting "bitterness" the less you are getting flavor and aroma. Those boil out. 15 minutes you are still getting some flavor, but if you go 10 then you get more flavor, then aroma and almost no bitterness. 5 and under is almost all aroma (which matters!!!!!).

 

As I said, for my next series of Hoppy CALs I am going to hop in the 10 and under range to maximize the hops. I am going a pack at 8, a pack at flameout, and then dry hop with one.

 

For your case, I would not go long with the cascade. Why trade that flavor and aroma for bitter? I would do one packet at 8 minutes and one packet at flameout. I think you will love those results. 

 


 

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Thanks for the help, everybody. I'm not going to worry too much about the color. This is a past-date CAL, which may already be on the dark side.

 

MrWhy: I know a boil of 30 minutes would add some bitterness. I was doing this intentionally to balance the added malt. In reality, I'll probably go with a half-ounce at 20 or 30 minutes and another at 5. That should be good for mostly flavor and aroma, with just a bit of bitterness, I guess.

 

Jim

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8 hours ago, jasbo said:

Thanks for the help, everybody. I'm not going to worry too much about the color. This is a past-date CAL, which may already be on the dark side.

 

MrWhy: I know a boil of 30 minutes would add some bitterness. I was doing this intentionally to balance the added malt. In reality, I'll probably go with a half-ounce at 20 or 30 minutes and another at 5. That should be good for mostly flavor and aroma, with just a bit of bitterness, I guess.

 

Jim

 

This is probably my favorite thing to to do. Take the CAL and do something "hoppy" with it. Experiment. See what happens. I absolutely LOVE my Hoppy CALs. Before I was doing mixed hops, bittering, etc. As I mentioned, my next phase is exploring single hops to really get their flavor and aroma.

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1 hour ago, MrWhy said:

 

This is probably my favorite thing to to do. Take the CAL and do something "hoppy" with it. Experiment. See what happens. I absolutely LOVE my Hoppy CALs. Before I was doing mixed hops, bittering, etc. As I mentioned, my next phase is exploring single hops to really get their flavor and aroma.

If you can believe this Mr. Why, I've only had one can of CAL ever and that's b/c it came w/a clearance Little Brown Keg from Walmart.  Even that one I ended up mixing with a Mr. Beer Hard Pear Cider to make one helluva potent cider.  

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9 minutes ago, AnthonyC said:

If you can believe this Mr. Why, I've only had one can of CAL ever and that's b/c it came w/a clearance Little Brown Keg from Walmart.  Even that one I ended up mixing with a Mr. Beer Hard Pear Cider to make one helluva potent cider.  

 

You have opened your heart and soul to us. And it is beautiful. Your heart and soul. They. They are beautiful. It is beautiful. I don't really know what pronoun to use.

 

However!

 

I am going to jump into this pool of open love your honest has created.

 

My true confession is this.....I have not yet had just a straight Mr. Beer can. It has all been recipes and mad scientist brews.

 

 

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27 minutes ago, MrWhy said:

 

You have opened your heart and soul to us. And it is beautiful. Your heart and soul. They. They are beautiful. It is beautiful. I don't really know what pronoun to use.

 

However!

 

I am going to jump into this pool of open love your honest has created.

 

My true confession is this.....I have not yet had just a straight Mr. Beer can. It has all been recipes and mad scientist brews.

 

 

No worries, sir.  I've only done 2 purely from the can and both were "meh".  1. Was the Oktoberfest which I messed up.  2. Was a straight Pear Cider.  It was horrible (to me), but apparently it was the way it was supposed to be.  

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23 minutes ago, AnthonyC said:

No worries, sir.  I've only done 2 purely from the can and both were "meh".  1. Was the Oktoberfest which I messed up.  2. Was a straight Pear Cider.  It was horrible (to me), but apparently it was the way it was supposed to be.  

I didn't like the pear cider either. Not the "Perry" I have tasted commercially.

I have done some right from the can. Early on it was smaller cans, but now I usually only do the Seasonals or Craft series from the can only.

The Standard size I usually add stuff to.

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On ‎7‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 8:22 PM, MrWhy said:

I have not yet had just a straight Mr. Beer can

it's kinda sweet and thick on the way down, probably would have been better on my waffles

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