MiniYoda

recipe for Helles

71 posts in this topic

Friend of mine and I went to the local German Club's monthly outing.  She has a love fare with all things German.  She enjoys Spaten Munich Lager.  Did some research, and this is a helles.  I'm drinking one of the Helles from the Mr. Beer Seasonal section that I've been cold conditioning for a while.  Just not the same.  Color is darker and the flavor isn't the same.

 

I was wondering if someone here has an all extract or partial mash recipe for a helles using Mr. Beer products, or knows of a source that sells a 5 gallon Helles kit.  Rather not do a full grain on this, as I haven't done full grain (yet).  More than willing to do the true cold conditioning.  Just want to come as close to the Spaten Lager as possible.

 

Thanks


MY

 

 

Creeps McLane likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, MiniYoda said:

Friend of mine and I went to the local German Club's monthly outing.  She has a love fare with all things German.  She enjoys Spaten Munich Lager.  Did some research, and this is a helles.  I'm drinking one of the Helles from the Mr. Beer Seasonal section that I've been cold conditioning for a while.  Just not the same.  Color is darker and the flavor isn't the same.

 

I was wondering if someone here has an all extract or partial mash recipe for a helles using Mr. Beer products, or knows of a source that sells a 5 gallon Helles kit.  Rather not do a full grain on this, as I haven't done full grain (yet).  More than willing to do the true cold conditioning.  Just want to come as close to the Spaten Lager as possible.

 

Thanks


MY

 

 

What about a strictly lme with hop additions and a full 60 min boil???

MiniYoda likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

PS, thats a lager. Youd need some temp control. Closest thing in ale form would be a blonde i do believe. Close, but not the same

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm all in favor of LME with LME/DME, minimal hops and adding grains.  just wondering if someone tried this before and has a good baseline for me to try.  And for temp control, I have Mr. Beer's Helles in a freezer with a temp controller that ranges between 53 and 56.  The bottles have been there for 2 months ish.  That's not a problem.  Just need a good solid Helles recipe.  Trying to clone the Spaten Munich.  Very good lager with more body than her second favorite beer........Miller Lite.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You could cut this recipe in half for an lbk, substitute the lme and bittering hops for MRB canadian blonde HME. Throw in a pale softpack. Add hme at flameout? Ferment as a lager. Closest youll get id think without doing the real recipe

IMG_4153.PNG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have the Mr. Beer 6 gallon fermenter, so I could do a full recipe of above.  I'll study it and see what I can do to sub this for that using Mr. Beer or easy to get products. Not familiar with Aramis hops, but I don't get out of my cave much, so please don't let that surprise you.

 

 

MrWhy likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, MiniYoda said:

I have the Mr. Beer 6 gallon fermenter, so I could do a full recipe of above.  I'll study it and see what I can do to sub this for that using Mr. Beer or easy to get products. Not familiar with Aramis hops, but I don't get out of my cave much, so please don't let that surprise you.

 

 

Ive never heard of it either... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@MrWhy, do you think this could be the next collaboration effort?  Clone commercial beers with Mr. Beer products?  If so, first up is a true German helles

MrWhy likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From Beer Captured, they have a Hofbrauhaus Helles beer.

This should be an interesting adventure. I can't control my stuff this well but maybe you can try :-D

 

5 gal/OG 1.052/54, FG 1.013/SRM 5/IBU 17/ABV 5. either 1 or 2

1. PM 12 oz 8L Munich malt, 8 oz German 2.5L Light  Crystal malt, 4 oz Belgian Aromatic malt steeped at 150 deg for 30 min.

2. Mini mash - they use 1.5 lb German 2 row Pilsner malt, 4 oz Munich Malt at 150 deg for 90 min. and omit 2 lb (seems too much) of the light malt extract .

 

Strain grains into brew pot

Sparge with 1 gal 150 deg water

Bring to a boil, remove from heat.

Add 6lb Muntons Extra Light Dry Malt Extract (1) or 4 lbs (2)

2 oz Malto Dextrin

Add bittering hops:

1/2 oz Spalt Hop (6%, 3HBU)
1/2 oz German Hallertaur Hersbrucker (4% 2HBU)

Add water to make 2.5 gal, then boil for 45 min.

add 1 tsp Irish Moss

Boil 15 min more

Remove from heat and chill 20 mins

strain to primary and add water to make 5 1/8 gal.

at < 65deg F pitch yeast.

use either Wyeast 2124 Bohemian Lager or Wyeast 2206 Bavarian Lager

Keep temp at 60-62 until fermentation starts (1 day)

Reduce temp to 47-52, for a week or until it slows.

Siphon to secondary (5 gal)

Bottle when FG reached and beer has cleared, (approx. 5 weeks)

Prime with 1 1/4 cu Muntons Extra Light Dry Malt.

Let carbonate at 70 deg for 3 weeks then cellar

 

 

MiniYoda and Creeps McLane like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

More Beer has a 5 gallon Helles extract for 36. (Free shipping for orders over 60). Jaspers (boomchugalug) has one for 39....but it is 6.8% ABV.....

 

Did you ferment/lager the Mr. Beer helles?

 

The issue with extract is that it will always be darker. (if it is liquid).

 

 

 

 

MiniYoda and TonyKZ1 like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, MiniYoda said:

@MrWhy, do you think this could be the next collaboration effort?  Clone commercial beers with Mr. Beer products?  If so, first up is a true German helles

 

It is just really hard with LME because of the color effect.

 

You need to use DME to get light, but I don't think these extract kits really rely on DME.....and Mr. Beer only has one type of DME.

 

DME plus steeping grains?

 

I don't have enough knowledge/skill to clone a beer. Especially a german one using Mr. Beer DME and grains.

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, MrWhy said:

More Beer has a 5 gallon Helles extract for 36. (Free shipping for orders over 60). Jaspers (boomchugalug) has one for 39....but it is 6.8% ABV.....

 

Did you ferment/lager the Mr. Beer helles?

 

The issue with extract is that it will always be darker. (if it is liquid).

 

 

 

 

 

I'm using a temp controller similar to what Mr. Beer is advertising on their home page.  I fermented their Helles seasonal in the fridge at 55 for 3 weeks, carbonated for ..... I think 4 weeks .... at 68, then back to a freezer controlled by the temp controller between 53-56 for at least 2 months.  It just didn't taste the same.

MrWhy likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Nickfixit said:

From Beer Captured, they have a Hofbrauhaus Helles beer.

This should be an interesting adventure. I can't control my stuff this well but maybe you can try :-D

 

5 gal/OG 1.052/54, FG 1.013/SRM 5/IBU 17/ABV 5. either 1 or 2

1. PM 12 oz 8L Munich malt, 8 oz German 2.5L Light  Crystal malt, 4 oz Belgian Aromatic malt steeped at 150 deg for 30 min.

2. Mini mash - they use 1.5 lb German 2 row Pilsner malt, 4 oz Munich Malt at 150 deg for 90 min. and omit 2 lb (seems too much) of the light malt extract .

 

Strain grains into brew pot

Sparge with 1 gal 150 deg water

Bring to a boil, remove from heat.

Add 6lb Muntons Extra Light Dry Malt Extract (1) or 4 lbs (2)

2 oz Malto Dextrin

Add bittering hops:

1/2 oz Spalt Hop (6%, 3HBU)
1/2 oz German Hallertaur Hersbrucker (4% 2HBU)

Add water to make 2.5 gal, then boil for 45 min.

add 1 tsp Irish Moss

Boil 15 min more

Remove from heat and chill 20 mins

strain to primary and add water to make 5 1/8 gal.

at < 65deg F pitch yeast.

use either Wyeast 2124 Bohemian Lager or Wyeast 2206 Bavarian Lager

Keep temp at 60-62 until fermentation starts (1 day)

Reduce temp to 47-52, for a week or until it slows.

Siphon to secondary (5 gal)

Bottle when FG reached and beer has cleared, (approx. 5 weeks)

Prime with 1 1/4 cu Muntons Extra Light Dry Malt.

Let carbonate at 70 deg for 3 weeks then cellar

 

 

 

Okay, my friend is attractive, but 1) she has a boyfriend, who is also a good friend, and 2) not attractive enough/single enough to try this one!

MrWhy and Shrike like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, MrWhy said:

More Beer has a 5 gallon Helles extract for 36. (Free shipping for orders over 60). Jaspers (boomchugalug) has one for 39....but it is 6.8% ABV.....

 

Did you ferment/lager the Mr. Beer helles?

 

The issue with extract is that it will always be darker. (if it is liquid).

 

 

 

 

 

$36 with a few problems.  You still have to buy the yeast, and it is out of stock.  As is the one that I found on Label Peelers.  Still, this ain't their site, this is Mr. Beer's site.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, MiniYoda said:

 

I'm using a temp controller similar to what Mr. Beer is advertising on their home page.  I fermented their Helles seasonal in the fridge at 55 for 3 weeks, carbonated for ..... I think 4 weeks .... at 68, then back to a freezer controlled by the temp controller between 53-56 for at least 2 months.  It just didn't taste the same.

 

Personally, I do not think you can clone a Helles (or Oktoberfest, or any of the german lagers) straight with HME. The color, and a variety of other factors will prevent it.

 

At the most, you could possibly come close with a partial mash. And you could come closer with all grain.

 

The issue with the german beers (and to a large extent the Belgian) is that they are EXTREMELY technique and local ingredient dependent.


What I mean is this -

 

If you look at  a Belgian (or German) recipe, what you get is really simple. I mean, stupid simple. But the flavors are almost impossible to reproduce. I am, as we speak, about to have a Sierra Nevada Oktoberfest. I had one last night. Great beer. NOTHING like the real Oktoberfest. And these guys (Sierra Nevada) are the best of the best.


How do you replicate the water? How do you replicate the grain? The yeast? The equipment???

 

You can't.


So the best you can do is make a kick-ass beer, in the style of, the beer you are trying to make.

 

BTW - Paulaner Oktoberfest in the big cans is the greatest thing in the world. I haven't seen them in my area in YEARS but this year I am on a mission to find, and purchase 50 cans.

 

I am not joking. 50 BIG CANS!

Creeps McLane and MiniYoda like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, MrWhy said:

 

It is just really hard with LME because of the color effect.

 

You need to use DME to get light, but I don't think these extract kits really rely on DME.....and Mr. Beer only has one type of DME.

 

DME plus steeping grains?

 

I don't have enough knowledge/skill to clone a beer. Especially a german one using Mr. Beer DME and grains.

 

 

 

 

 

 

They have two DMEs.  A Smooth and a Pale.

 

I could do DME and grains.  Expected to do that to get a serious German body to the beer.

MrWhy likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, MrWhy said:

 

Personally, I do not think you can clone a Helles (or Oktoberfest, or any of the german lagers) straight with HME. The color, and a variety of other factors will prevent it.

 

At the most, you could possibly come close with a partial mash. And you could come closer with all grain.

 

The issue with the german beers (and to a large extent the Belgian) is that they are EXTREMELY technique and local ingredient dependent.


What I mean is this -

 

If you look at  a Belgian (or German) recipe, what you get is really simple. I mean, stupid simple. But the flavors are almost impossible to reproduce. I am, as we speak, about to have a Sierra Nevada Oktoberfest. I had one last night. Great beer. NOTHING like the real Oktoberfest. And these guys (Sierra Nevada) are the best of the best.


How do you replicate the water? How do you replicate the grain? The yeast? The equipment???

 

You can't.


So the best you can do is make a kick-ass beer, in the style of, the beer you are trying to make.

 

BTW - Paulaner Oktoberfest in the big cans is the greatest thing in the world. I haven't seen them in my area in YEARS but this year I am on a mission to find, and purchase 50 cans.

 

I am not joking. 50 BIG CANS!

 

I don't doubt that trying to clone a beer is difficult, and doing so with extract isn't much easier.  But, using stuff here, could we come close to a full body Helles?  Color isn't as critical as flavor.  But to be a true lager, it should condition at "less than room temp"

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Creeps McLane said:

Helles is my fav lager. Such a nice buttery floral flavor with a slight bitterness that leaves you more thirsty than you came. So good 

 

 

Then.........should we design one?  Heck, if they can do a Mexican Belgian beer, let's give this a try.

 

 

Bonsai & Brew and MrWhy like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think we would need someone with a stronger background (HEY @MRB Josh R!!!! We are talking to you!!!!) to give us some guidelines on what grains we would need to add to what amount of pale DME to get a nice approximation of a Helle's lager.

 

I'll look when I have more time, but my process would be -

1. Compare at least 3 extract/partial mash recipes for a Helles

2. Compare at least 3  all grain/partial mash recipes for a Helles

3. Try to construct a reasonable replica using the pale DME, Mr. B grains, lager yeast, and hops.

 

All with the understanding that this is a case where it is NOT the ingredients so much that are going to make or break the beer, but the technique/skill in the lager ferement/process.

 

And be ready to repeat brewing the same ingredients (with minor tweaks as needed) multiple times, focusing on technique and brewing process.

 

These brewers (german and belgian) have been brewing these beers for HUNDREDS of years..........they've got their shit down.

MRB Josh R and MiniYoda like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Love your post, @MrWhy on the challenge.  And knowing that we are using only the four key ingredients, it'll pass the German Purity law.

 

Well, with the exception of those of us who use sugar for carbonation.  To do it <right>, you'd have to transfer the CO2 from the fermentation to the bottling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, MiniYoda said:

 

 

Then.........should we design one?  Heck, if they can do a Mexican Belgian beer, let's give this a try.

 

 

 

One of the advantages of our Mexigian foray is we are journeying into unexplored lands. We are setting the standards by which others will be judged!

 

Which, honestly, I knew when we started this. Trying, as an American brewer, to "recreate" a Belgian (or German) is ridiculously difficult . (And trust me, over the pond, they are having the same issues with the IPA. Ironically). There are hundreds of years of technique and ingredient and culture and expectation built into the beers. By breaking that with an unexpected twist (is it Mexican? Is it Belgian?) You reset the expectation-palate and can start fresh.

 

You need to have something that breaks the expectation.....lets brew a high ABV helles! Let's brew a dry hopped ale Helles!

 

If you don't, you are trying to clone.

 

Which is not a bad thing because you will absolutely have to bring your technical skill up to a high level, as opposed to your recipe skill. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, MRB Josh R said:

We still have some Helles available. ;)

https://www.mrbeer.com/helles-bock-2015-spring-seasonal

 

You can supplement it with a small amount of pilsner malt (4 oz) and maybe some Vienna malt (2oz) to get a bit more flavor and body. Saaz is a good hop with that beer.

 

Yes, I know, but for me it just didn't hit the same flavor as the Spaten Lager.  That's what I am shooting for.

MrWhy likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, MRB Josh R said:

We still have some Helles available. ;)

https://www.mrbeer.com/helles-bock-2015-spring-seasonal

 

You can supplement it with a small amount of pilsner malt (4 oz) and maybe some Vienna malt (2oz) to get a bit more flavor and body. Saaz is a good hop with that beer.

 

@MRB Josh R -

 

Is it possible, using pale DME, steeping grains, and hops (in essence a Mr. Beer partial mash with no HME) to get closer to a Helles lager?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now