Cammanron

Basic list of ingredients...

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I was looking for a basic list of ingredients for a beginner to start to brew without just "adding water".... like a list of easily available yeasts, then a list of available LME's and DME's, and a list of common, and then not so common hops... 

This would be like "mix and match"....(at your own peril, mind you) and it would be a great way for a new brewer to get their feet wet and experiment. I know there are tonnes of recipes, but this is a way to experiment and learn in the process..

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I really like columbus, cascade, mosaic, citra, centennial. Id like to get more familiar with lemondrop. Im a pale ale guy so those hops make sense for me.

 

carapils add body and head retention but wheat will also. So will maltodextrin. 

 

victory is a nice addition to pales and ipas.

 

for yeasts i like to have fermentis safale us-05 on hand always. I also like to keep a saison yeast on hand. 

 

Id probably also have a pale Lme on hand too. Or a lot of them. 

 

This all really boils down to what types of beers youre gonna brew

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Cammanron said:

I was looking for a basic list of ingredients for a beginner to start to brew without just "adding water".... like a list of easily available yeasts, then a list of available LME's and DME's, and a list of common, and then not so common hops... 

This would be like "mix and match"....(at your own peril, mind you) and it would be a great way for a new brewer to get their feet wet and experiment. I know there are tonnes of recipes, but this is a way to experiment and learn in the process..

 

Okay -

 

Going with the Mr. Beer ingredients....if what you are looking for is a well rounded stock to mix and match

1. CAL HME, American ALE HME, St. Pat HME 

2. Pale LME, Gold LME, Robust LME

3. Booster

4. Yeast - US-05, T-58

5. Hops - Columbus, Cascade, Centennial, Zythos, Mosaic, Saaz, Goldings, Hallertau

6. Grains - 2 row, pilsen, munich, victory, carapils, crystal, whatever else. (grains are not that expensive.)

 

For me, that would cover just about most styles/things you want to experiment with.

 

The way I do this (experiment) is -

1. For hops - I work off my base. My base is Classic American Light, 2 pale LME, 1 gold LME, US-05 yeast. From there I will add whatever hop experiment I am working with. I call these my Hoppy CALs.

2. Grains - I usually work off a Mr. B recipe to see what those are like, but I could also work off my base and see what happens. 

3. Remix beers - I take a beer I've brewed, and I re-brew it trying something different. A new grain, or a new hop, something like that.

 

Don't discount the recipes though. Even if you want to take one and add to it, it gives you something great to work off of. A way to learn is to just read the ingredients, descriptions and process of them. Compare.....pick two or three IPA recipes and read them. Compare ABVs, IBUs, process etc. Same with stouts. Compare some partial mash recipes. 

 

That will start to give you a sense of how the beers are constructed and when you are making your own recipe, you'll have some ideas of how it is done.

 

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1 hour ago, MrWhy said:

 

Okay -

 

Going with the Mr. Beer ingredients....if what you are looking for is a well rounded stock to mix and match

1. CAL HME, American ALE HME, St. Pat HME 

2. Pale LME, Gold LME, Robust LME

3. Booster

4. Yeast - US-05, T-58

5. Hops - Columbus, Cascade, Centennial, Zythos, Mosaic, Saaz, Goldings, Hallertau

6. Grains - 2 row, pilsen, munich, victory, carapils, crystal, whatever else. (grains are not that expensive.)

 

For me, that would cover just about most styles/things you want to experiment with.

 

The way I do this (experiment) is -

1. For hops - I work off my base. My base is Classic American Light, 2 pale LME, 1 gold LME, US-05 yeast. From there I will add whatever hop experiment I am working with. I call these my Hoppy CALs.

2. Grains - I usually work off a Mr. B recipe to see what those are like, but I could also work off my base and see what happens. 

3. Remix beers - I take a beer I've brewed, and I re-brew it trying something different. A new grain, or a new hop, something like that.

 

Don't discount the recipes though. Even if you want to take one and add to it, it gives you something great to work off of. A way to learn is to just read the ingredients, descriptions and process of them. Compare.....pick two or three IPA recipes and read them. Compare ABVs, IBUs, process etc. Same with stouts. Compare some partial mash recipes. 

 

That will start to give you a sense of how the beers are constructed and when you are making your own recipe, you'll have some ideas of how it is done.

Thats a great start. I was also envisioning a colour coded type chart. 

Like yeasts that are coded blue to yellow for example... 

Then malt (extracts or grains) that are complementary coded in such a way that you can put them together, OR experiment on the edge of the 'colour range'...

And hops code similarly as well... 

It would be a compendium, as it were, of possible brew combinations.

 

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2 hours ago, Cammanron said:

Thats a great start. I was also envisioning a colour coded type chart. 

Like yeasts that are coded blue to yellow for example... 

Then malt (extracts or grains) that are complementary coded in such a way that you can put them together, OR experiment on the edge of the 'colour range'...

And hops code similarly as well... 

It would be a compendium, as it were, of possible brew combinations.

 

 

Beer is sort of coded that way. Stout, Amber, Belgian, IPA, Pale, Amber, etc.

 

So for an IPA you will be looking at a particular sort of a base with this yeast, these grains, and these hops. Within a range you will vary it to get different flavors and styles. If you vary it too much you move out of the IPA range.

 

Same with stouts. If you add malt to a stout you can work up to an imperial stout, add a bit of oatmeal and 2 row....bourbon soaked oak chips, etc. But you probably don't want to run a stout with an IPA style hop schedule....but who knows. That might be the next big thing.

 

You can't really use US-05 for a belgian because it is the belgian yeast that gives the belgian it's characteristic flavor. But i am sure there are ways and that you could make a good belgian with US-05.

 

The hard part is when you brew, it takes a long time to start to really figure out what the tastes are, where they come from, and what part of the taste is actually the ingredient vs. your process. It's a lot of brewing......that is why at times you want to really work on isolating an ingredient or a hop. I cannot tell you how cool I felt the first time I was drinking a commercial craft beer and KNEW it was heavily hopped with goldings. I  wouldn't have known that without taking some time/brews and working with goldings.

 

Try to mix experimenting with deliberate learning.

 

 

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On 8/5/2017 at 8:17 PM, Cammanron said:

Thats a great start. I was also envisioning a colour coded type chart. 

Like yeasts that are coded blue to yellow for example... 

Then malt (extracts or grains) that are complementary coded in such a way that you can put them together, OR experiment on the edge of the 'colour range'...

And hops code similarly as well... 

It would be a compendium, as it were, of possible brew combinations.

 

Cammanron,

 

Beer can not be color coded, there are far too many ways to combine malt, hops and yeast to make beer.  A basic recipe of malt can be duplicated while changing the hop profile to make several different beers.  Add a yeast change and that list will grow.  Brewing is something that takes a while to perfect and can only be done by trial and error. 

 

What you need to do is spend time on this forum and other forums out there reading and researching.  Youtube is a great source of information on brewing as well.  There are also many great books on the subject.  Don't look for the easy way out with a color coded system, do the research and do some educated experiments yourself. 

 

Yes, AC he poked the Dawg in the tiger's absence.

 

Dawg

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3 hours ago, BDawg62 said:

Cammanron,

 

Beer can not be color coded, there are far too many ways to combine malt, hops and yeast to make beer.  A basic recipe of malt can be duplicated while changing the hop profile to make several different beers.  Add a yeast change and that list will grow.  Brewing is something that takes a while to perfect and can only be done by trial and error. 

 

What you need to do is spend time on this forum and other forums out there reading and researching.  Youtube is a great source of information on brewing as well.  There are also many great books on the subject.  Don't look for the easy way out with a color coded system, do the research and do some educated experiments yourself. 

 

Yes, AC he poked the Dawg in the tiger's absence.

 

Dawg

I don't think you understood what I was trying to say.

I was just saying that a colour coded system can give ideas on what ingredients are complementary and other colour coded ingredients are not so complementary.

There's nothing wrong with another tool to have to take the guesswork out of brewing, and all it would do is add more interest. It wouldn't account for boil times or steeping or dry hopping... Just ingredients that work well together.

Don't quash one's enthusiasm.... You're sounding like a beer snob.

On 05/08/2017 at 7:03 PM, MrWhy said:

 

Okay -

 

Going with the Mr. Beer ingredients....if what you are looking for is a well rounded stock to mix and match

1. CAL HME, American ALE HME, St. Pat HME 

2. Pale LME, Gold LME, Robust LME

3. Booster

4. Yeast - US-05, T-58

5. Hops - Columbus, Cascade, Centennial, Zythos, Mosaic, Saaz, Goldings, Hallertau

6. Grains - 2 row, pilsen, munich, victory, carapils, crystal, whatever else. (grains are not that expensive.)

 

For me, that would cover just about most styles/things you want to experiment with.

 

The way I do this (experiment) is -

1. For hops - I work off my base. My base is Classic American Light, 2 pale LME, 1 gold LME, US-05 yeast. From there I will add whatever hop experiment I am working with. I call these my Hoppy CALs.

2. Grains - I usually work off a Mr. B recipe to see what those are like, but I could also work off my base and see what happens. 

3. Remix beers - I take a beer I've brewed, and I re-brew it trying something different. A new grain, or a new hop, something like that.

 

Don't discount the recipes though. Even if you want to take one and add to it, it gives you something great to work off of. A way to learn is to just read the ingredients, descriptions and process of them. Compare.....pick two or three IPA recipes and read them. Compare ABVs, IBUs, process etc. Same with stouts. Compare some partial mash recipes. 

 

That will start to give you a sense of how the beers are constructed and when you are making your own recipe, you'll have some ideas of how it is done.

Thats a great start. I was also envisioning a colour coded type chart. 

Like yeasts that are coded blue to yellow for example... 

Then malt (extracts

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I finished up Spring semester at the end of June and have been enjoying a quiet summer at the lake, free of AnthonyC-like-noise...  LOL

 

Enthusiasm is great.  But, instead of thinking his response is from a beer snob, perhaps it's from someone much more experienced in brewing than you, who knows that your idea, while enthusiastic, makes no sense - and he's trying to tell you that without crushing your enthusiasm.

 

Color-coding simply won't work.  

 

Let's say you want to make beer X.  You can use 3 pounds of pale malt and 1 pound of this malt and 6 oz of that malt.  Or, you can get exactly the same result by using 4 pounds of a different malt.  That's because nearly all malt is barley, and the end product is created by kilning it or roasting it.  

 

I'd strongly recommend you do a lot of reading and learn before trying to make this a cookie-cutter hobby for yourself, as it will never be.

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Cammanron, I get what you're trying to do, but such a system would leave out a key variable:  personal preference, aka "taste".  I could say that any or all of X+Y+Z grains added to X or Y or Z HME and hopped with your pick of X or Y or Z hops would produce a nice, hearty stout.  Then someone else chimes in and says "No, that would be too hoppy", and the next guy says "should have more ABV", and the next guy says "ABV too high" and Goldilocks says "it's just right."

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19 hours ago, Cammanron said:

Don't quash one's enthusiasm.... You're sounding like a beer snob.

You misunderstood, I wasn't trying to squash you enthusiasm or by any means trying to sound like a beer snob.  I was sounding like an experienced brewer.

 

You are a new brewer with very little knowledge of how the process of brewing works (ie.. color coding).  It really pisses me off when someone who has no knowledge of how this process works doesn't want to listen to those of us who do know how it works. 

         
I have done experiments where I have used the same base malts and yeast and only changed the hop.  Everyone was a drinkable beer and each had it's merits.  I have also done experiments where I have used the same base malts and hop profile and only changed the yeast.  Again, each beer was drinkable and also each beer had it's merits. Thus the reason why I say there is no color chart possibility.  How many of these experiments have you conducted?

 

So before you even think of calling me a beer snob, think of who you may be talking to and be accepting of the experience that I am trying to pass on to you.

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55 minutes ago, RickBeer said:

That was me in my younger days...  Drinking Rubaeus, in nitro, at Founders in Grand Rapids.

 

post-57583-0-20059200-1441037309_thumb.jpg

If I could give this 10 likes I would!  This is more like I was expecting -- quasi-revealing, yet still leaving a bit to the imagination.  

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9 minutes ago, AnthonyC said:

If I could give this 10 likes I would!  This is more like I was expecting -- quasi-revealing, yet still leaving a bit to the imagination.  

 

If you read old posts you would see it was posted long prior...  #TeachingTeachersHowToUseTheInternet

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10 minutes ago, RickBeer said:

 

If you read old posts you would see it was posted long prior...  #TeachingTeachersHowToUseTheInternet

I actually did see that awhile back, and I was shockingly surprised that you didn't delete.  I'm not JUST ALL good looks Richard, I do some reading as well.  It's one of the perks of my job.  😉  Dammit!!!  Did I JUST reveal that I actually DO read your posts & stickies?!?!  Man, I'm gonna hate myself in the morning!

 

IMG_0457.JPG

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As a teacher, it is your job to teach AND learn.  To learn, you seek knowledge from those more knowledgeable, and better looking, than yourself.  So, of course you've read all 8.682 of my prior posts.  Duh!

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4 minutes ago, RickBeer said:

As a teacher, it is your job to teach AND learn.  To learn, you seek knowledge from those more knowledgeable, and better looking, than yourself.  So, of course you've read all 8.682 of my prior posts.  Duh!

...that WE have hijacked this man's thread for long enough!

IMG_0459.JPG

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2 hours ago, BDawg62 said:

You misunderstood, I wasn't trying to squash you enthusiasm or by any means trying to sound like a beer snob.  I was sounding like an experienced brewer.

 

You are a new brewer with very little knowledge of how the process of brewing works (ie.. color coding).  It really pisses me off when someone who has no knowledge of how this process works doesn't want to listen to those of us who do know how it works. 

         
I have done experiments where I have used the same base malts and yeast and only changed the hop.  Everyone was a drinkable beer and each had it's merits.  I have also done experiments where I have used the same base malts and hop profile and only changed the yeast.  Again, each beer was drinkable and also each beer had it's merits. Thus the reason why I say there is no color chart possibility.  How many of these experiments have you conducted?

 

So before you even think of calling me a beer snob, think of who you may be talking to and be accepting of the experience that I am trying to pass on to you.

Ok, I'm not going to get into a flame war with you, but I never said I wasn't going to listen.... It appears that it is you who is the one who's not listening. 

Yes I am new, and forums like this is a place where new people and experienced people alike come to SHARE ideas, no? 

I have done ZERO experiments so far, which is why I was suggesting.... suggesting only, that a list of the basic ingredients colour coded, would HELP a new brewer like myself as a STARTING point to begin with. 

Like saying;

Yeast # 1 + Malt A + Hops X , is a COMMON and good combination.

Yeast # 2, 3, 4 can also be used with this combination, with varying results.

Yeast # 99, while is still useable, probably not an optimal combination.

Same with ..

Yeast # 1 + Malt C, D, and H, + Hops X, Y are also quite complimentary, while Malt H does not go well with Hops Z.

You will notice, I have said nothing in terms of amounts and durations.... which is why experimenting and ones creativity is not able to be put in a 'colour coded' chart, JUST INGREDIENTS.

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@Cammanron, the problem I see here is that just about everything can be mixed with anything.  You can take a base HME, and some people will add one type of hop because they like mild flavor, while others will do a different hop because they like strong bitterness.  Some won't add any hops, but have a different grain or malt extract.  In brewing, just about anything goes.

 

I have a suggestion.  Try to devise a start to the color coding system, and show us what you have.  From there we can make suggestions and pass on ideas.  I had the wild notion once to create a searchable recipe database.  I created a spreadsheet, added some recipes, and submitted it to the folks here for comments.  They made suggestions on what to add, remove and change.  After each refinement, I added more recipes, and submitted updates for further input.  The final spreadsheet isn't perfect, but there has been some positive feedback and people said they use it.

 

Pick one item, such as hop or grain or HME or LME/DME.  Look over the different varieties available in the store, and come up with an idea on how to color code them.  Maybe with hops, the more red the color, the more alpha-acid, while milder hops would be more toward the green color.  Study the recipes (download the spreadsheet if you think it might help), and see how each of the particular category is being used with the various HME's, etc.

 

Sounds like a challenging project.  Not sure if we can get you started, but were always here to help give suggestions.


Good luck

 

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