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DrMJG

Question on Rauchbier

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I would be making this for myself.  I seriously doubt that anyone in my family, especially my wife, would consider this tasty.  I have noted on one site the addition of liquid smoke.  Bit unclear if this were a fermentation or a conditioning process.  And I am not sure if I would really find this method tasty as liquid smoke in food recipes is a bit like rolling dice with one fixed die. While this will not be a near future attempt, I am trying to decide if the effort will be so disruptive that it would be simply better to purchase it from time to time.

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27 minutes ago, DrMJG said:

I would be making this for myself.  I seriously doubt that anyone in my family, especially my wife, would consider this tasty.  I have noted on one site the addition of liquid smoke.  Bit unclear if this were a fermentation or a conditioning process.  And I am not sure if I would really find this method tasty as liquid smoke in food recipes is a bit like rolling dice with one fixed die. While this will not be a near future attempt, I am trying to decide if the effort will be so disruptive that it would be simply better to purchase it from tie to time.

I say definitely do it!  This is one of my favorite styles of beer.  I can give you a relatively simple alternative if you would like.  Honestly Doc, they're relatively simple to make and very forgiving if you make a mistake. 

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1 minute ago, AnthonyC said:

I say definitely do it!  This is one of my favorite styles of beer.  I can give you a relatively simple alternative if you would like.  Honestly Doc, they're relatively simple to make and very forgiving if you make a mistake. 

Please do! 

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While it may not qualify as an official Rauchbier, I assure you that it is very similar.  Here it is:

2 Mr. Beer Saint Pat's HMES

1 Mr. Beer Robust LME

Grains: 1/2 cup 2-row, 1 cup of Cherrywood Smoked Malt.

No extra hops are necessary. 

Yields 2.5g

 

Steep grains at 155 for 30mins, bring to boil, remove from heat & add all Mr. Beer ingredients.  I used the yeast under the hood of the can of HME, pitched at 70*, ferment for 3 weeks, condition for 6 weeks.  

 

That's about it.  If you want to see what it looked like go to the "What are you drinking tonight" thread and check it out.  

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15 hours ago, DrMJG said:

Ok, saved for something to keep me out of mischief!  Now, do you have a recipe for "close to Berlinerweisse?

 

 

That would be a little more difficult. Since that is a sour (tart) beer, you would need a souring method. If you soured it in a plastic fermenter, you are pretty much writing that vessel off from ever making a clean beer again. There are methods of kettle souring where you add the bacteria into the kettle, let it sit for a day or so, then boil it. The boil step will kill the bugs so that they will not contaminate your fermenter.

 

PS that is one of my favorite styles and it's on my list of 'to dos'.

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On Sunday, August 13, 2017 at 2:52 PM, DrMJG said:

I would be making this for myself.  I seriously doubt that anyone in my family, especially my wife, would consider this tasty.  I have noted on one site the addition of liquid smoke.  Bit unclear if this were a fermentation or a conditioning process.  And I am not sure if I would really find this method tasty as liquid smoke in food recipes is a bit like rolling dice with one fixed die. While this will not be a near future attempt, I am trying to decide if the effort will be so disruptive that it would be simply better to purchase it from time to time.

I have fond memories of Bamberg, Germany and the thrill of their Rauchbier. It's the #1 reason I began homebrewing. Hope you have found a supplier for beech smoked malt. I have to tone mine down for my family to enjoy. 

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4 hours ago, D Kristof said:

I have fond memories of Bamberg, Germany and the thrill of their Rauchbier. It's the #1 reason I began homebrewing. Hope you have found a supplier for beech smoked malt. I have to tone mine down for my family to enjoy. 

Never had any Rauchbier, when I visited Stuttgart a couple years back, but did really like what I guess would be Schwarzbier, though the region I was in the dark beer that I had came in a flip top bottle and they called it Schwabenbrau. Couple of those would make your feet wobble!

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5 hours ago, Cato said:

Never had any Rauchbier, when I visited Stuttgart a couple years back, but did really like what I guess would be Schwarzbier, though the region I was in the dark beer that I had came in a flip top bottle and they called it Schwabenbrau. Couple of those would make your feet wobble!

Rauchbier is a unique love it/hate it brew. My family calls it "hammy". I call it delicious. For them I mash 1 lb of rauch malt and add it to MB's Classic American Lite.

IMO, Rauchbier goes great with grilled foods. 

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I'm with D Kristof here...  if you're doing an extract, this is a good method.  Of course, a true Rauch might be at or near 100% smoked malt, so you'd need to do an AG to get to that level.  I would definitely go Kristof's method and not use liquid smoke, unless you prefer your beers (IMHO) bitter, band-aid-y, and not that drinkable.  I would choose something labelled Rauch malt, or a german beechwood malt (like Weyermann).  Those would be the classic, on-style choices.  Of course, you can do what you want since it's your beer, so other smoked malts can work as well (I've used cherrywood I had on hand after the recipe below, for example, and really like it).  My word of warning is against peat malt.  If I chose peat, I'd go very light on the bill, maybe 10%.  Peat can be very overpowering and phenolic if used as a large (or even small) part of a grain bill.  Of course, you can always smoke your own pilsen malt as well.  I might recommend going 50% or lower on your first rauch and adjusting to taste from there.  

 

As an aside, my favorite smoked beer is Sue, a smoked porter from Yazoo that uses the aforementioned cherrywood malt.  My clone-ish recipe that has seemed pretty solid from my (and others) brewing experience.  Even though this is the basic brewing section, I'll list it here for comparison.  Note that the smoked malt is only 10% of the bill here:

 

Amount Item Type % or IBU 
12.08 lb Pale Malt 2-Row (2.0 SRM) Grain 68.12 % 
1.81 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 10.23 % 
1.81 lb Cherry Smoked Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 10.21 % 
1.02 lb Carafa II (412.0 SRM) Grain 5.74 % 
0.85 lb Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM) Grain 4.78 % 
0.16 lb Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 0.92 % 
1.72 oz Nugget [13.00 %] (60 min) Hops 57.8 IBU 
1.32 oz Pearle [5.40 %] (30 min) Hops 14.2 IBU 
1 Pkgs London ESB Ale (Wyeast Labs #1968) Yeast-Ale 


Est Original Gravity: 1.094 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.024 SG 
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 9.22 % 
Bitterness: 72.0 IBU 
Est Color: 38.8 SRM

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On 8/14/2017 at 6:29 AM, efdbrian said:

 

That would be a little more difficult. Since that is a sour (tart) beer, you would need a souring method. If you soured it in a plastic fermenter, you are pretty much writing that vessel off from ever making a clean beer again. There are methods of kettle souring where you add the bacteria into the kettle, let it sit for a day or so, then boil it. The boil step will kill the bugs so that they will not contaminate your fermenter.

 

PS that is one of my favorite styles and it's on my list of 'to dos'.

 

A fun little berliner style sour can be made with Goodbelly probiotic drink.  I've done a few of these to good effect.  Here's the recipe Goodbelly provides:


 

Quote

 

http://goodbelly.com/2016/06/01/goodbrew-lp299v-beer-recipe/

 

Berliner Weisse Style Ale

Ingredients (Makes 5 gallons)

  • 3lbs Pilsner DME
  • 3lbs Wheat DME
  • 2 GoodBelly StraightShots
  • WLP644 Saccharomyces Brux-Like Trois

Heat 5.5 Gallons of water to 160f. Stir in DME. Raise heat to 180f and hold for 10min. Cool to 110f. Pour wort (albeit unhopped) into fermenter. Add GoodBelly Shots and test acidity with pH meter, pH strips, or by taste every 12-24 hours until desired acidity is achieved.

Pitch WLP644 yeast. Within weeks your fermentation will be complete and you can bottle with priming sugar or keg condition to carbonate

 

 

 

Note:  They use no hops, but I generally do a very light hop just for preservative.

Note 2:  They use brux, but I've run it with whatever yeast I had (usually something basic like US-05)

 

You could easily do this with Mr. B unhopped malt extracts following the procedure above (though, again, I add a hop boil of a very low amount onto the end after the 24 hour wait).  Much like Brian said, I personally might warn against doing the souring in your fermenter as they describe (unless you want to dedicate on LBK to just sours).  Do it in the pot covered in cheesecloth for 1-2 days, then bring to boil, add a small amount of hops for, say, 30 min, then cool, add to LBK, pitch yeast as per normal.  

 

The Goodbelly juices come in fruit flavors, so you can easily fruit your sours with no effort.  They use the shots in the recipe above, but I've used the quart versions as well with no issue.  I used a quart for a 3 gallon batch, which is likely overkill...  you could use half a quart probably.  That's why the shots make sense, I guess.  

 

 

berliner.JPG

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11 hours ago, D Kristof said:

Rauchbier is a unique love it/hate it brew. My family calls it "hammy". I call it delicious. For them I mash 1 lb of rauch malt and add it to MB's Classic American Lite.

IMO, Rauchbier goes great with grilled foods. 

@D Kristof @Swencoha after reading your two posts and with the use of Google, I  found just 4 miles from me our specialty wine and beer shop called Total Wine sells 500ml bottles of 3 different brews of Rauchbier, $6 per bottle, but I'm game to try one!

From their web page-

 

Deriving its name from “rauch,” the German word for “smoke,” Rauchbiers are German lagers brewed with malts kilned over smoke – most often from beech wood, although different beers may exhibit aromas and flavors from other woods, such as oak. Brewers add the smoked malt to a base beer, usually a Märzen, which largely determines the color and strength of the final product. Other Rauchbier versions include base beers of Bock styles, Weizens, Schwarzbiers and more. These smoked beers are generally complex, and the level of smokiness can vary, with aromas and flavors often suggesting bacon and wood. Rauchbier’s Noble hops balance toasty malt sweetness for a clean taste and look with a dry finish.

Characteristics: Malty, smoky, toasty, smooth, medium-bodied
ABV range: 4.6-8% IBU: 18-33
Popular Rauchbier-style beer brands: Aecht Schlenkerla Rauchbier Märzen, Aecht Schlenkerla Rauchbier Urbock, Aecht Schlenkerla Eiche Oak Smoke, Aecht Schlenkerla Rauchbier Weizen
Serving Temperature: Cool, 46-54°
Cheese Pairing Ideas: Blue cheeses, aged Cheddars, Monterey Jack 
Food Pairing Ideas: Barbecue, sausages, cured meats

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3 minutes ago, swenocha said:

Total Wine is a great chain of beer/wine stores.  They keep threatening to open here, but it always seems to fall through.  

Think I will try this one

http://www.totalwine.com/beer/lager/rauchbier/aecht-schlenkerla-rauchbier-urbock/p/97748183?s=210&igrules=true

 

Lol, I know I have a long way to go as a brewer but in the meantime it's very cool to be exposed to styles of beer I'd never heard of like saisons, and now Rauchbier!  I can go buy them and see if it's something I like and want to try and brew one of these days!

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As an aside to this, I recommend Brewing Classic Styles by Jamil.   The book has one recipe for each of 80 different beer styles, so if you find a style you like commercially, you can find a good extract or AG recipe for the style in this book.   I once had aspirations of brewing every recipe in the book sequentially, but I gave up on that long ago...

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20 hours ago, Cato said:

Never had any Rauchbier, when I visited Stuttgart a couple years back, but did really like what I guess would be Schwarzbier, though the region I was in the dark beer that I had came in a flip top bottle and they called it Schwabenbrau. Couple of those would make your feet wobble!

Schwabenbrau is a local/regional beer found in Stuttgart.  My cousin and his father argued if it is a good beer all the time.  For the price is is fairly good.

 

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15 minutes ago, DrMJG said:

Schwabenbrau is a local/regional beer found in Stuttgart.  My cousin and his father argued if it is a good beer all the time.  For the price is is fairly good.

 

I thought it was good, especially since it was the only dark beer I ran across while there!

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@Cato, most AG Rauchbier recipes I've seen use approximately 10 lbs of Rauchmalt for a 5 or 6 gallon batch. For my MB keg, I only use 1 - 2 lbs plus a MB HME, Saaz hops and a Fermentis dry lager yeast. If I want a stronger smokiness, I brew it as a lager. If I brew it at ale temperatures using the same yeast it adds some rye like spiciness. My nephew's text to me when he tried it was, "OMG! The brown ale and porter were good, but I could drink this shit all day." Given that my family's German geneology doesn't worry about hurting your feelings with brutal honesty and requests for refills, I would say it's was a hit.

IMO, the Urboch is a really good beer. I'm interested to know your thoughts.

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This is what my trub bottle looked like last year after only 2 weeks of conditioning at 60 degrees, the rest were lagered at 52 degrees for 3 weeks before lowered to mid 30's in the refrigerator. The rest were more clear and better carbonated.

Message_1471744783526.jpg

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17 hours ago, D Kristof said:

@Cato, From Brewing Classic Styles by Jamil Zainasheff and John Palmer. 

1522433631426.jpg

Cool, @D Kristof! I'm a fan of smoky flavors so will be interesting for me to explore this beer style. Pic taken at a small family cafe in Boblingen. I bet you recognize the beer!

photo6.jpg

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