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Neub7

Help with cider taste please

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I have 3 batches of Mr. Beer that have been ready to drink so far, and they all have had a cidery taste.  My first was the CAL, my second was the Bavarian Wheat, and my third was the Irish stout.  I am doing the 3/4 method.  3 weeks fermenting, and at least 4 on conditioning.  Some of the CAL has been conditiong for about 8, and some of the Wheat and Stout have been 6 weeks, and still have the cider taste.  The stout isn't quite as noticeable, but it's still there.  I am sanitizing very well, and my Temps for everything are right on par with everyone elses.  I am bottling in both glass and the plastic Mr. Beer bottles, and the plastic bottles seem to have a more noticeable cider taste.  I am using Mr. Beer drops or corn sugar for bottling.  I used no add ins for the CAL, a booster pack for the Wheat, and some LME for the Stout.  Can someone please help me out please.  What am I doing wrong.  

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4 minutes ago, Neub7 said:

I have 3 batches of Mr. Beer that have been ready to drink so far, and they all have had a cidery taste.  My first was the CAL, my second was the Bavarian Wheat, and my third was the Irish stout.  I am doing the 3/4 method.  3 weeks fermenting, and at least 4 on conditioning.  Some of the CAL has been conditiong for about 8, and some of the Wheat and Stout have been 6 weeks, and still have the cider taste.  The stout isn't quite as noticeable, but it's still there.  I am sanitizing very well, and my Temps for everything are right on par with everyone elses.  I am bottling in both glass and the plastic Mr. Beer bottles, and the plastic bottles seem to have a more noticeable cider taste.  I am using Mr. Beer drops or corn sugar for bottling.  I used no add ins for the CAL, a booster pack for the Wheat, and some LME for the Stout.  Can someone please help me out please.  What am I doing wrong.  

I have come to believe that is just a characteristic of MB yeast. I have had it to some degree every time I've used MB yeast. It really doesn't even bother me that bad anymore. But, whenever I've used another yeast, US-05 in particular, I haven't had much of an issue with it.

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I really don't know that much about yeasts.  I live in a very small town, and have 1 store that has a very small homebrew section, and hardly any yeasts.   Is  US-05 a good all around yeast, or do I need different yeasts for different kinds of beers.  I think I'm going to lean my beer making to Stouts, Oktoberfest, Amber and Browns.  What is my best option for those beers?

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@Neub7 I learned of US-05 right here on these forums. These guys on here have such a wealth of knowledge that its crazy! Anyway, yes, 05 is a very forgiving, all around yeast I believe. I love it. It always leaves my beers tasting very "clean".

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5 minutes ago, Neub7 said:

I see the packs of S-05 are for 5 to 6 gallon batches.  Do you use the whole pack in a 2 gallon batch or are you able use half and save it for the next batch?

Pitch it all, it won't hurt anything. I wouldn't worry with saving it unless you are going to start another batch right away.

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US-05 is a very neutral yeast.  I had the cider taste in all of my batches until I quit using the MR. Beer yeast.  Pitch the entire pack into a 2 gallon batch.  It is near impossible to overpitch on a homebrew scale. 

 

US-05 is the same yeast as Wyeast 1056 and White Labs 001 (both liquid yeast).  It will ferment very clean at lower temperatures. 

 

You say your temps are in line with where we say to be, what are those temps?  Are they wort temps or ambient air temps?  Also, are they measured using a probe that is insulated and taped to the side of your LBK or just what the Mr. Beer stick on thermometer says?

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Have no idea what the second one is.

 

The third was in a LAGER yeast.  Also, note the date on it - 1/7/2015.  Should be thrown away.  

 

Nottingham is NOT something to take the place of S-05.  Both it and S-04 are British Ale yeasts.  

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11 hours ago, RickBeer said:

Have no idea what the second one is.

 

The third was in a LAGER yeast.  Also, note the date on it - 1/7/2015.  Should be thrown away.  

 

Nottingham is NOT something to take the place of S-05.  Both it and S-04 are British Ale yeasts.  

You're joking, right? 

 

Or you're confusing Nottingham with Windsor. 

 

Nottingham ferments even more cleanly than US-05 (there is no S-05). And it does well at even lower temperatures. For a west coast style IPA or APA, I'd use Nottingham over US-05 any day (unless temperatures are above 65).

 

The second one is a package of Munton's yeast. It's a general purpose yeast, like S-33 or Cooper's.

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From Lallemand's site:  Nottingham is an English style ale yeast selected for its high performance ability and versatility. Traditional styles brewed with this yeast include but are not limited to Pale Ales, Ambers, Porters, Stouts and Barleywines. Furthermore, this highly versatile yeast strain allows for tremendous creativity when brewing beers out of the regular spectrum: in addition to these traditional styles, Nottingham gives the possibility of creating styles such as Golden Ale, Kölsch, Lager-style beers, IPA, and Imperial Stout, among many others.  Windsor ale yeast is a true English strain that produces a beer which is estery to both palate and nose with a slight fresh yeasty flavor.  Beers created with Windsor are usually described as full-bodied, fruity English ales. Brewers choose Windsor to produce beers that range from pale ale to porter with moderate alcohol levels and the flavor and aroma characteristics of the best traditional ales. Traditional styles brewed with this yeast include but are not limitedto Milds, Bitters, Irish Reds, English Brown ales, porters and Sweet Stouts.

 

From the Fermentis site: S-05 is an American ale yeast producing well balanced beers with low diacetyl and a very clean, crisp end palate. Forms a firm foam head and presents a very good ability to stay in suspension during fermentation

 

I use Notty for Porters, and it almost always overflows.    I use S-05 for Reds, Fruit Wheat (clean to get fruit flavor vs. using a yeast that provides fruit flavor), and a Brown.  Notty is not going to be as clean as US-05, but it won't be objectionable (slight esters), where US-05 has none.  Notty will also end up drier, since it attenuates more fully than US-05.

 

 

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8 hours ago, bpgreen said:

Nottingham ferments even more cleanly than US-05 (there is no S-05). And it does well at even lower temperatures. For a west coast style IPA or APA, I'd use Nottingham over US-05 any day (unless temperatures are above 65).

I dunno if I would use it "over" US-05, but back in the day I went through A LOT of Notty.    I think I used it back then, mainly, because it was cheaper than US-05.  A very good yeast I used in darn near everything I brewed back then... which was 95% Pales, Reds and IPAs.

Now that I am back to using dried yeast, I will be using US-05 though.  I haven't used dried yeast in so long, I am interested in seeing how it goes and how long it takes to really get going.  I will be using it on Thursday when I brew up a 30 gal batch of Chaos Ensues, a 6.9% IRA.

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I just tasted my Deluxe Irish Stout today (3 weeks fermenting in the LBK). At 2 weeks, a sample tasted delicious. Today: very strong green apple taste. Yuck!  Gone was the chocolate and coffee tastes. It was awful. 

 

I am am wondering whether I should go ahead and bottle or leave it in the LBK a week longer?

 

After readings these postings, I think I may have fermented too warm. Ambient temperatures ranged from 65-72. 

 

Any ideas?  Thanks!

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green apple / cider = too hot fermentation.

 

if you are drawing samples from the lbk you are likely pulling off trub with the sample.

 

trub tastes like crud. yeasty, sometimes maybe sour or just plain off.  you dont drink trub. that is yeast poopy.

 

ambient temp of 72f means at peak fermentation your yeast was at about 79-82f inside the lbk. way too hot. too hot = stressed yeast = cider. (among other off flavors)

 

know your yeast. coopers yeast or the mr beer yeast under the lid ... and most ale yeasts want your ambient temp to be about 58-62f for the first few days of active fermentation. when they get busy eating, the inside temps can be up to 10 degrees higher than ambient or 68-72f for a really vigorous ferment.  i had always shot for keeping my ambient temps no warmer than 67f in the days when i did not have a chiller box.  i never got cider.

 

lager yeast is not ale yeast. lager yeasts want colder temps to ferment. they are bottom feeders , not top feeders like ale yeast. i dont make lagers because to me lager yeast is too much of a diva. ale yeast is more easy going and more forgiving of mistakes.

 

get an ice chest / cooler.  buy a submersible cheap aquarium thermometer with a probe. make about 4 1 liter bottles of ice. put your lbk in the cooler. tape the probe to the outside of the lbk just below the wort level. tape a small piece of cardboard or reflectix insullation over the probe to help it record the inside temp more than the ambient.  put one ice bottle in the cooler away from the lbk. close the cooler lid on the probe wire with the digital display set on the lid.

 

walk away for about 4 hours. come back and note the temp. too cold? use less water in the ice bottle. too hot? add more ice bottles.

check it about every 2 hours until you can gauge how far a certain volume of ice will drop your wort temperature... and how long it will last.

 

in my experience,  once the wort hits pitch temperature  a liter of ice will keep my ferment at about 64f ambient for about 18 hrs average. there will be minor fluctuations in temp. thats fine. when i get up from bed, i just swap out the ice.  temp control is most important during the first 3 days of fermentation. temperatures contribute to ester development which makes flavors. some you want. some you dont. again, know your yeast.

 

remember this too... your samples should never be used to judge the final outcome before it gets there. beer matures with age. a bottling sample will likely taste a world apart from the final product.

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fermentis US05 is kind of like the wonderbread of yeast. it does the job. it does it well.. but lacks any real character. it ferments clean (typically without esters). people use it when bottling after long fermentations to supplement tired old yeast, so things carb after sitting for a month in a secondary. 

 

us04 and nottingham are english ale yeasts.  imo both are monsters. they rip through everything. they want cooler temps because toward the higher end of the optimal range they start producing fruity esters.    nottingham also can produce banana esters when hot.. something i only discovered by accident in the last year.

 

use the right yeast for the beer you are making.

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16 hours ago, zorak1066 said:

fermentis US05 is kind of like the wonderbread of yeast. it does the job. it does it well.. but lacks any real character. it ferments clean (typically without esters). people use it when bottling after long fermentations to supplement tired old yeast, so things carb after sitting for a month in a secondary. 

I have a buddy at work i gift a lot of beers to. Hes not a brewer but hes huge fan of all types of beer. He can pick up certain flavors and thats how I judge my beers. Anyway, he can taste 05. Every beer ive given him with that as my yeast he says has a certain taste. I cant taste it but he picks up on it. I now kinda stay away from it. 

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interesting that he can detect 05. ive always found it to be extremely clean.  some ppl have hypersensitive taste buds i guess.  i can detect things my wife cant like banana esters.  me: ah! a slight hint of banana esters, with a touch of spicy pepper and subtle clove notes! this balances the stone fruitiness nicely!  (turns to wife) what say you? 

wife: it tastes like beer.

 

 

 

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Thank you to Zorak!  I left the stout in the LBK one day short of 4 weeks (recommended by another home brewer), cold crashed for 24 hours, then sampled. Much better!  Still a light cider taste, but the wonderful stout tastes returned!  Now in bottles and waiting 4 weeks to first bottle in the refrigerator. 

 

I used your advice on the next brew, Oktoberfest Deluxe. I like what I am seeing with ambient temperatures between 58-63. Good yeast activity. Hoping the cider tastes are history. 

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i think temperature control is the most important during the first 3 days of active fermentation. this is when you get a lot of ester production which can contribute flavors. i have a dubbel going now. i gave it 1 day at ambient of 64f to get started then cranked up the temp to 75f for going on two weeks. i think it was done fermenting in just 4 days. all the co2 burps died out after being crazy mad for a couple days.  the last week will be back to ambient.

 

i'm shooting for the fruity end of the spectrum on the yeast flavors. never used danstar abbaye yeast before so this is an experiment. i also did a small scale decoction mash.

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