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Cato

Strong cider taste

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I was two batches in before joining the forum and finding out that ambient 68F was too high for the fermenter especially that first week.

Batch #2 , Bewitched Amber with an LME smoothpack I put in the fridge today for cold crashing and tasted a sample.

Sample did have some trub in it but had a strong cider taste. If I cold crash for several days and then bottle is there a chance that over time the cider taste will abate? 

I'll be better prepared for batch 3 with cooler, thermometer, ice bottles, but hoping maybe I can salvage the Bewitched batch if possible.

Lol, at least I know how to create cider with a big kick, but not sure that I can acquire a taste for it.

Thanks in advance for any input, and lots of thanks for all the info on this forum for us new to brewing. It's a tremendous help!

 

 

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57 minutes ago, Cato said:

I was two batches in before joining the forum and finding out that ambient 68F was too high for the fermenter especially that first week.

Batch #2 , Bewitched Amber with an LME smoothpack I put in the fridge today for cold crashing and tasted a sample.

Sample did have some trub in it but had a strong cider taste. If I cold crash for several days and then bottle is there a chance that over time the cider taste will abate? 

I'll be better prepared for batch 3 with cooler, thermometer, ice bottles, but hoping maybe I can salvage the Bewitched batch if possible.

Lol, at least I know how to create cider with a big kick, but not sure that I can acquire a taste for it.

Thanks in advance for any input, and lots of thanks for all the info on this forum for us new to brewing. It's a tremendous help!

 

 

@Cato as you may remember I’m right there with you. I’ve already chalked it up to rookie batches and temp control (although they were all around 70) for my 1st 3 batches. Hoping for success with the cooler. Good luck!

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Jdub, yes if we'd only known but that didn't  happen. Still hoping that some bottle conditioning will mellow out our first batches, though that may take a couple months.

Like you I'm going with the cooler and temp probe for my upcoming batch of Witch's Flight. Got a hydrometer, another LBK, bottle capper, and bottles. Not going to let these first batches get me down, if anything a bit more determined to succeed. 

Lol, smoking some baby backs tonight to wash away the pain!

Good luck on your Munich Monster batch! We will get it right.

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Cato.....ya we will. I got a black beer’d porter in the closet (pre temp control knowledge)I’m about to bottle this weekend. Anxious to see if the dark beers will be good despite higher temps. Thunder Bay in the cooler and MMM on deck, and whispering wheat in the hole. 

 

BTW I don’t know crap about brewing but I do know a lot about smoking ribs and brisket.....we’ll have to create a thread for that!

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How to avoid acetaldehyde aka cider taste:

 

1- pitch at your fermenting temp

2- maintain a consistent fermentation temp in the lower range for your yeast. In general, dont stress your yeast

3- pitch enough yeast

4- use a higher temped yeast ie K-97 or belle sasion.

 

ways to mask acetaldehyde:

 

1- brew a maltier style like an amber or stout 

2-brew a beer that favors esters produced by stressed yeast ie saisons, wheats

3- add fruit

4- whatever you think your target conditioning time is, double it

 

Brewing beer is like cooking. You need to look at what you’re working with to decide the outcome. Im trying to think of a perfect analogy but all I can come up with is hamburger vs sweet italian sausage in my spaghetti. 

 

This is my suggestion for all of you who dont have an ideal way to control your fermentation temps. Don’t. Let the yeast do its thing. I dont temp control anything but my lagers and saisons. 

 

Heres my recipe for yall to try:

 

1 northwest pale ale HME

1/2 cup of honey dissolved before adding the HME (optional)

1/2 oz of amarillo or falconers flight at flame out 

1 packet of danstar belle saison yeast

pitch yeast anywhere between 65-75

ferment at ambient temps not to reach below 63 degrees and not to exceed 77

Bottle after three weeks with 1/2 the MRB suggested sugar amount

condition for 6 weeks

 

i guarentee a solid beer.

 

HME is sweet by nature. The honey and saison yeast will help dry it out

 

the higher you ferment, the more wonderful the esters will be.

 

saison yeast is a beast thus 1/2 the sugar for bottling

 

youll be left with wonderful pepper and fruity esters paired with the citrus of the hop aroma all working together to kick any cidery taste in the ass. Someone delete my profile if this is incorrect. 

 

If im gonna be honest and draw upon past experiences then i have to mention @Bonsai & Brew. I was lucky enough to try some of his beers and what i noticed was he’s really good at working with his weakness as an advantage. Dampfbier, wonderful with the HME residual sweetness. Lox Stock, wonderful at covering up any possible off flavors. Take the characteristics of MRBs products and work them in your favor or know what you have to do to change it. I think any MRB recipe can be made so much better by adding a little honey to dry it out a little. Im not a big fan of their yeast. Throw it away and use something from fermentis or danstar. Yeast nutrient is amazing. Shorter lag times and all the nutrients your yeast craves (dry yeast already has nutrients) but shorter lag times mean you beer is ready to bottle a day or two earlier. Partial mashes are great but if youre not ready for that than just skip it for now. Later youll be glad you made added them though. Something to work towards. 

 

So before you run out and buy a temp controller and a mini fridge, try different yeasts. I use safale US-05 often and could care less if my beer reaches 68 during peak. 

 

Have fun, stop stressing. Youre making beer! God damn if that isnt an amazing thing! MRB makes it so easy. Stop making it hard!

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Thanks for your input Creeps McLane! Hehe, not sure anything but aging in the bottle is going to help this current Bewildered Amber batch, but my next on the schedule calls for US-05 yeast, and I have some idea now on how to maintain some temp control.

It's gonna get better from here on out!

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1 hour ago, Jdub said:

Cato.....ya we will. I got a black beer’d porter in the closet (pre temp control knowledge)I’m about to bottle this weekend. Anxious to see if the dark beers will be good despite higher temps. Thunder Bay in the cooler and MMM on deck, and whispering wheat in the hole. 

 

BTW I don’t know crap about brewing but I do know a lot about smoking ribs and brisket.....we’ll have to create a thread for that!

Porters and stouts are more forgiving. 

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48 minutes ago, Creeps McLane said:

How to avoid acetaldehyde aka cider taste:

 

1- pitch proper fermenting temp

2- maintain a consistent fermentation temp in the lower range for your yeast. In general, dont stress your yeast

3- pitch enough yeast

4- use a higher temped yeast ie K-97 or belle sasion.

 

ways to mask acetaldehyde:

 

1- brew a maltier style like an amber or stout 

2-brew a beer that favors esters produced by stressed yeast ie saisons, wheats

3- add fruit

4- whatever you think your target conditioning time is, double it

Well said.

 

48 minutes ago, Creeps McLane said:

Brewing beer is like cooking. You need to look at what you’re working with to decide the outcome. Im trying to think of a perfect analogy but all I can come up with is hamburger vs sweet italian sausage in my spaghetti. 

Good analogy. When you get the hang of the process, consider this one. What do you want to cook into your omelet? For brewing it's simple additions such as, molassess, honey, coffee, oak chips, dry hops. Each one will add something different.

 

48 minutes ago, Creeps McLane said:

This is my suggestion for all of you who dont have an ideal way to control your fermentation temps. Don’t. Let the yeast do its thing. I dont temp control anything but my lagers and saisons. 

 

Heres my recipe for yall to try:

 

1 northwest pale ale HME

1/2 cup of honey dissolved before adding the HME (optional)

1/2 oz of amarillo or falconers flight at flame out 

1 packet of danstar belle saison yeast

pitch yeast anywhere between 65-75

ferment at ambient temps not to reach below 63 degrees and not to exceed 77

Bottle after three weeks with 1/2 the MRB suggested sugar amount

condition for 6 weeks

 

i guarentee a solid beer.

 

HME is sweet by nature. The honey and saison yeast will help dry it out

 

the higher you ferment, the more wonderful the esters will be.

 

saison yeast is a beast thus 1/2 the sugar for bottling

 Creeps, I'll have to give this one a try.

 

48 minutes ago, Creeps McLane said:

 

youll be left with wonderful pepper and fruity esters paired with the citrus of the hop aroma all working together to kick any cidery taste in the ass. Someone delete my profile if this is incorrect. 

LOL.

 

48 minutes ago, Creeps McLane said:

Partial mashes are great but if youre not ready for that than just skip it for now. Later youll be glad you made added them though. Something to work towards. 

For new brewers, I would suggest new brewers should hold off trying a partial mash, otherwise you'll be stressing over holding the wort within the proper range. 

 

48 minutes ago, Creeps McLane said:

So before you run out and buy a temp controller and a mini fridge, try different yeasts. I use safale US-05 often and could care less if my beer reaches 68 during peak. 

 

Have fun, stop stressing. Youre making beer! God damn if that isnt an amazing thing! MRB makes it so easy. Stop making it hard!

Relax, don't worry, have a homebrew. 

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1 hour ago, D Kristof said:

Porters and stouts are more forgiving. 

That’s good to know. You know the closet it’s been in for 3 weeks has been around 70 the whole time. I’ve been worried about it. Also put a lot of effort into it including going to my local HBS in dallas/fw area to get the grains, dme and yeast. Was a blast making it. Will post again when I cop a taste while bottling. 

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Update- after 2 days of cold crashing the lbk of Bewitched Amber, the strong cider taste is dialed way back and now is just a slight taste of apple. I'm letting the small sample I drew warm up on the counter, but feeling much encouraged about bottling tomorrow!

I'm guessing that yeast settling and compaction of the trub during cold crash is responsible. Glad too that I propped up the spigot end.

 

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On 2/22/2018 at 9:16 PM, Creeps McLane said:

How to avoid acetaldehyde aka cider taste:

 

1- pitch at your fermenting temp

2- maintain a consistent fermentation temp in the lower range for your yeast. In general, dont stress your yeast

3- pitch enough yeast

4- use a higher temped yeast ie K-97 or belle sasion.

 

ways to mask acetaldehyde:

 

1- brew a maltier style like an amber or stout 

2-brew a beer that favors esters produced by stressed yeast ie saisons, wheats

3- add fruit

4- whatever you think your target conditioning time is, double it

 

Brewing beer is like cooking. You need to look at what you’re working with to decide the outcome. Im trying to think of a perfect analogy but all I can come up with is hamburger vs sweet italian sausage in my spaghetti. 

 

This is my suggestion for all of you who dont have an ideal way to control your fermentation temps. Don’t. Let the yeast do its thing. I dont temp control anything but my lagers and saisons. 

 

Heres my recipe for yall to try:

 

1 northwest pale ale HME

1/2 cup of honey dissolved before adding the HME (optional)

1/2 oz of amarillo or falconers flight at flame out 

1 packet of danstar belle saison yeast

pitch yeast anywhere between 65-75

ferment at ambient temps not to reach below 63 degrees and not to exceed 77

Bottle after three weeks with 1/2 the MRB suggested sugar amount

condition for 6 weeks

 

i guarentee a solid beer.

 

HME is sweet by nature. The honey and saison yeast will help dry it out

 

the higher you ferment, the more wonderful the esters will be.

 

saison yeast is a beast thus 1/2 the sugar for bottling

 

youll be left with wonderful pepper and fruity esters paired with the citrus of the hop aroma all working together to kick any cidery taste in the ass. Someone delete my profile if this is incorrect. 

 

If im gonna be honest and draw upon past experiences then i have to mention @Bonsai & Brew. I was lucky enough to try some of his beers and what i noticed was he’s really good at working with his weakness as an advantage. Dampfbier, wonderful with the HME residual sweetness. Lox Stock, wonderful at covering up any possible off flavors. Take the characteristics of MRBs products and work them in your favor or know what you have to do to change it. I think any MRB recipe can be made so much better by adding a little honey to dry it out a little. Im not a big fan of their yeast. Throw it away and use something from fermentis or danstar. Yeast nutrient is amazing. Shorter lag times and all the nutrients your yeast craves (dry yeast already has nutrients) but shorter lag times mean you beer is ready to bottle a day or two earlier. Partial mashes are great but if youre not ready for that than just skip it for now. Later youll be glad you made added them though. Something to work towards. 

 

So before you run out and buy a temp controller and a mini fridge, try different yeasts. I use safale US-05 often and could care less if my beer reaches 68 during peak. 

 

Have fun, stop stressing. Youre making beer! God damn if that isnt an amazing thing! MRB makes it so easy. Stop making it hard!

Creeps McLane- I'm going to make this recipe this weekend. Should get my order tomorrow with the Northwest Pale ale and saison yeast. If I add the 1/2 cup of honey how will that affect the ABV? I'll  be making in an LBK,  so thinking with the honey I should pitch the whole packet of yeast?

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48 minutes ago, Cato said:

Creeps McLane- I'm going to make this recipe this weekend. Should get my order tomorrow with the Northwest Pale ale and saison yeast. If I add the 1/2 cup of honey how will that affect the ABV? I'll  be making in an LBK,  so thinking with the honey I should pitch the whole packet of yeast?

Whole pack. Make sure you bottle with 1/2 the sugar youd usually use. 

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52 minutes ago, Cato said:

Creeps McLane- I'm going to make this recipe this weekend. Should get my order tomorrow with the Northwest Pale ale and saison yeast. If I add the 1/2 cup of honey how will that affect the ABV? I'll  be making in an LBK,  so thinking with the honey I should pitch the whole packet of yeast?

 

1/2 cup honey will add about 0.4% ABV.  I got that from QBrew, which is a handy program to have.

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1 minute ago, Shrike said:

 

1/2 cup honey will add about 0.4% ABV.  I got that from QBrew, which is a handy program to have.

Nice, thanks Shrike, I was thinking it would give it a bump and maybe adding the whole packet of saison yeast would be called for.

Also really happy so far with my Witch's Flight! Been holding steady at 64F in the cooler and still happily bubbling away, though I would think after today the krausen should start to subside. Used the US-05 yeast and man it smells  so good whenever I change out the ice bottle!

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18 minutes ago, Creeps McLane said:

@Cato otherwise you get this:

 

BB7FBAD5-E3CE-4F13-906D-A9D00086CE47.png

I've seen that all too often in some batches. It perplexes me, as I maintain the same 1/2 tsp of sugar per 12 oz bottle. It has to be something with sanitation somewhere. I'm ramping up my sanitization with the latest round of brewing/bottling, so fingers crossed!

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20 minutes ago, Big Sarge said:

I've seen that all too often in some batches. It perplexes me, as I maintain the same 1/2 tsp of sugar per 12 oz bottle. It has to be something with sanitation somewhere. I'm ramping up my sanitization with the latest round of brewing/bottling, so fingers crossed!

Ya know... it has to be a yeast thing. This batch is ancient. Like maybe about 2 years old, oct 22 2106, i just looked it up. Any who, no off flavors what so ever. Just gushes like crazy. I used the screwy brewer calculator and batch primed. Its that damn saison yeast. 

 

Did you know i had a different batch that I bottled and like 6 months later it had zero carbonation? It was a smash pale ale. And then all of a sudden all the bottles were magically primed. So i quick started slamming them cuz i was afraid theyd become infected and sooner or later they would sour. They never did. 

 

Maybe i can say that you never know what a batch has in store for you. Or i can blame it on myself. Either way, home brewing is crazy at times. You just have to try to minimize the crazyness. 

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15 minutes ago, Jdub said:

@Creeps McLane thanks for posting that recipe. I’ll make it soon. Do you have a partial mash version of that if I wanted to steep some grains? Or should I try it just straight up?

8 oz of pilsner would be good. Id throw 4 oz of white wheat malt too just because.

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9 hours ago, Creeps McLane said:

@Cato otherwise you get this:

 

BB7FBAD5-E3CE-4F13-906D-A9D00086CE47.png

Got it! Will use 1/2 tsp per 12 oz bottle and use one PET bottle for monitor, condition in a covered bin.

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