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Marius

I cannot lager

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 I recently purchased the "May the Schwarz Bier With You" before noticing that it is a lager that uses S-23 lager yeast. I cannot lager at this time since I am still using the ice chest method for fermenting only. What would be the effect if I used a US-05 yeast and brewed it as an ale? The recipe is the Bohem Czech Pils, robust LME and Saaz hops. Any experienced opinions out there?

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It’s your beer but why can’t you lager? I just put el Gordito lager in my cooler over the weekend. It’s holding nice in the low 50’s with 3 to 4 16 oz frozen water bottles. Granted it’s going to be a challenge maintaining that for 3 weeks but oh well. You can try it. I have no clue about using an alt yeast. Good luck!

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14 hours ago, Marius said:

 I recently purchased the "May the Schwarz Bier With You" before noticing that it is a lager that uses S-23 lager yeast. I cannot lager at this time since I am still using the ice chest method for fermenting only. What would be the effect if I used a US-05 yeast and brewed it as an ale? The recipe is the Bohem Czech Pils, robust LME and Saaz hops. Any experienced opinions out there?

Marius,

 

To answer your question, yes you can change yeast.  A lager yeast will usually create a cleaner fermentation than what an ale yeast will create.  However that is based on being able to handle the lager fermentation with proper temp control throughout.  That means fermenting in the 50s and then raising to the upper 60s for a diacetyl rest and then cold crashing to the low 30s to "lager" the beer for a month or two.  Most brewers don't have the equipment or patience to accomplish this fermentation profile. 

 

You can use an clean fermenting Ale yeast to closely simulate the lager cleanliness but you will end up with a slightly different beer.  US-05 would be the best choice for this (or similar liquid yeast) and it should be fermented in the low 60s to help make it as clean as possible.  You could even go as low as 60.  Be sure to pitch plenty of yeast so that there is no yeast stress that will cause ester production and it will be a good beer.

 

Dawg

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Thanks guys, I am sure that I could ferment in the 50's with enough frozen bottles. It is the two months of lagering/conditioning that would be rough to keep up. 

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2 hours ago, BDawg62 said:

Marius,

 

To answer your question, yes you can change yeast.  A lager yeast will usually create a cleaner fermentation than what an ale yeast will create.  However that is based on being able to handle the lager fermentation with proper temp control throughout.  That means fermenting in the 50s and then raising to the upper 60s for a diacetyl rest and then cold crashing to the low 30s to "lager" the beer for a month or two.  Most brewers don't have the equipment or patience to accomplish this fermentation profile. 

 

You can use an clean fermenting Ale yeast to closely simulate the lager cleanliness but you will end up with a slightly different beer.  US-05 would be the best choice for this (or similar liquid yeast) and it should be fermented in the low 60s to help make it as clean as possible.  You could even go as low as 60.  Be sure to pitch plenty of yeast so that there is no yeast stress that will cause ester production and it will be a good beer.

 

Dawg

Dawg.....that’s interesting. The instructions for Gordito lager just say to ferment for 3 weeks between 53-59. It doesn’t say anything about diacetyl rest. Is this something I should read up on?

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23 minutes ago, Jdub said:

Dawg.....that’s interesting. The instructions for Gordito lager just say to ferment for 3 weeks between 53-59. It doesn’t say anything about diacetyl rest. Is this something I should read up on?

JDub,

 

Maybe, I haven't brewed any lagers myself because I can't achieve the 34 degree rest.  I am not sure if S-23 requires this type of lagering.  I did a quick look around on the internet and came up with just more confusion. 

 

I would look myself and decide what you think based on your research.  Lagers are tougher to ferment but rewarding in the end.

 

Dawg

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I've read on these forums about the diacetyl rest. However, the instructions do not give further information about conditioning temperatures. I wonder what would happen if it was fermented at recommended lager temps., cold crashed, then carbonated and conditioned at normal room temperatures (70ish)?

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Diacetyl rest is when you cause the temp to 65 to 68 at the end of lager fermentation for two days.

 

Don't do it, and you may notice diacetyl.  Think popcorn butter or butterscotch.

 

 

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1 hour ago, RickBeer said:

Diacetyl rest is when you cause the temp to 65 to 68 at the end of lager fermentation for two days.

 

Don't do it, and you may notice diacetyl.  Think popcorn butter or butterscotch.

 

 

Thanks rickbeer. So keep it at 53-59 for 19 days and move temp up to 65-68 for 2 days and then cold crash? I can do that. By the way @Marius, my cooler is in my garage. We just hit low 90’s in north Texas today. This is going to be a challenge. 

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31 minutes ago, Jdub said:

So keep it at 53-59 for 19 days and move temp up to 65-68 for 2 days and then cold crash? I can do that. By the way @Marius, my cooler is in my garage. We just hit low 90’s in north Texas today. 

What temperature do you plan on conditioning? Can they be carbonated and conditioned at the regular temps or do they have to be stored at low temps.

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I don’t know. I hadn’t planned on doing anything different. I bottle condition in a closet. Ambient temp anywhere from 68-75 this time of year. Haven’t thought that far ahead. If I should think about a lager differently hopefully this forum will tell me. I’m a 1st lager newbie. 

5 minutes ago, Marius said:

What temperature do you plan on conditioning? Can they be carbonated and conditioned at the regular temps or do they have to be stored at low temps.

 

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24 minutes ago, Jdub said:

I don’t know. I hadn’t planned on doing anything different. I bottle condition in a closet. Ambient temp anywhere from 68-75 this time of year. Haven’t thought that far ahead. If I should think about a lager differently hopefully this forum will tell me. I’m a 1st lager newbie. 

 

After the first week of fermentation I raise the temperature to the low 60's. With my work schedule that sometimes lasts an entire week. For the 3rd week I Iower the temperature back to the low 50's. Ideally the temperature should be lowered gradually, but if using a cooler with ice and refrigerated water bottles you can only do what you can do. RDWHAHB. If you have permission from SWMBO, place your LBK in your kitchen refrigerator ( the temperature is usually in the mid 30's). After I bottle I allow at least 3 weeks at room temperatures to carbonate before I place them back in a refrigerator for long-term lagering. 

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lager yeast is nothing but a diva. i do only ales. ale yeast is forgiving, less demanding... and i like my beer with some oomf.  ale yeast has never cared about rests or mild temp swings. it just wants food and a safe place to eat.  if i wanted to brew something high maintenance i'd do a mead.

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17 hours ago, zorak1066 said:

lager yeast is nothing but a diva. i do only ales. ale yeast is forgiving, less demanding... and i like my beer with some oomf.  ale yeast has never cared about rests or mild temp swings. it just wants food and a safe place to eat.  if i wanted to brew something high maintenance i'd do a mead.

Would it be fair to call lager yeasts the hot redheads of the microscopic world?

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On 5/7/2018 at 6:45 PM, Marius said:

I've read on these forums about the diacetyl rest. However, the instructions do not give further information about conditioning temperatures. I wonder what would happen if it was fermented at recommended lager temps., cold crashed, then carbonated and conditioned at normal room temperatures (70ish)?

 

I currently have two batches of lager that are conditioning at room temperature.  Both are very tasty.  For the diacetyl rest I simply took the LBK out of the mini-fridge and left it on the counter for the last three days of fermentation.

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On 5/15/2018 at 6:43 AM, Shrike said:

 

I currently have two batches of lager that are conditioning at room temperature.  Both are very tasty.  For the diacetyl rest I simply took the LBK out of the mini-fridge and left it on the counter for the last three days of fermentation.

So I just bottled a lager last week. 3 weeks in lbk at ~55 deg, last 3 days diacetyl rest at ~65 then bottled. Will carb for 3 weeks and then what? Put it all in the fridge for a few weeks? Not sure what to do. 

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21 minutes ago, Jdub said:

So I just bottled a lager last week. 3 weeks in lbk at ~55 deg, last 3 days diacetyl rest at ~65 then bottled. Will carb for 3 weeks and then what? Put it all in the fridge for a few weeks? Not sure what to do. 

 

Yes, refrigerate it for a few weeks for best results. You can drink it as soon as it's carbed, but 3 weeks of lagering in the fridge will be best.

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8 minutes ago, MRB Josh R said:

 

Yes, refrigerate it for a few weeks for best results. You can drink it as soon as it's carbed, but 3 weeks of lagering in the fridge will be best.

Ok thanks Josh. I will do just that. It’s a negra modelo clone recipe and I can’t wait to try it. 

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