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Cammanron

Starting to think about HME and LME

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Well, after about a dozen Mr Beer recipes, I'm starting to get disheartened. I've made all sorts of  recipes that are different flavoured using all sorts of different hops, yeast, water and adjuncts. Every batch I've made, they all have a very similar taste. Some more bitter than others, but similar.

My sanitation is good. I ferment for the recommended duration. I pitch my yeast at about 65-68F. I ferment at between 62-68F.... and every batch I've made has the same 'twangy' flavour as the batch before, regardless of which hop or yeast I use..... Don't get me wrong, they have tasted quite good, but virtually the same.... fruity/metallic, I don't quite know how to quantify it. 

Now don't go and tell me I've fermented too warm, because I have THREE ways of monitoring temps. Stick on aquarium type, remote weather station type, and infra red gun style.

I now believe 'the twang is real', partial mashes or not.

I think I'll do an all grain BIAB next to compare the taste... I also recently got a mini fridge, maybe I'll try a pilsner/lager.

 

Thoughts???

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Canmanron,

 

I understand the "twang" that you are getting.  I got it from any HME or LME batch that I brewed.  Then I tried DME and added my own hops and it all but disappeared.  Now with all grain it is gone completely. 

 

I use my tap water and campden tablets to dechlorinate it. 

 

Maybe try the DME approach or try Distilled water since the LME and HME already have the necessary minerals in them.

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Extract twang is a result of how HME is made. Ive only ever had it with HME. If you use HME you will have twang to some degree. The trick is to either stop using it or using it to your advantage. 

 

HME twang to me is a residual sweetness. A little something on the back of the tongue that just kinda sits there. You either need to dry it out with something like honey or use a higher attenuation yeast. You can also mask it with malty recipes or hoppy ones. Ive found that its hard to differentiate between the twang of extract and certain lager yeasts. So a lager may be a good idea also. Ask @Cato what he thinks about the topic. 

 

For me, i just moved to all grain since it was my destiny anyway. But others i feel have mastered this art. Partial mashes will help significantly. I think 1/2 cup of honey per batch does amazing things also. Ive commentes on this topic for years. Search the forum. Lots of good info on here

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7 minutes ago, Creeps McLane said:

That’s exactly what I would do

The 3 partial mashes I've done so far, have that twangy flavour. 

Now I have a Wheat that I've made and it's conditioning now that I'm hopeful will be good, but initial bottling sample also had twang... Maybe a real long condition will help.

 

I really have to do that all grain.

 

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I have also done many HME recipes, both Mr Beer and others. I always have the "twangy". It is better with partial mash but still there. In the last year and a half I have done several full grain batches using the BIAB method. I did not have the twangy with those recipts. I do not know why but when I have the "twangy" i add a dash of salt after pouring the beer in a glass and the taste is greatly improved.

 

I like the idea of adding honey and may try it.

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15 minutes ago, PA Brewer said:

I have also done many HME recipes, both Mr Beer and others. I always have the "twangy". It is better with partial mash but still there. In the last year and a half I have done several full grain batches using the BIAB method. I did not have the twangy with those recipts. I do not know why but when I have the "twangy" i add a dash of salt after pouring the beer in a glass and the taste is greatly improved.

 

I like the idea of adding honey and may try it.

Hmmm, a dash of salt.... Could be on to something

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Partial mash with plenty of fresh grains and hops as previously mentioned. The straIght up recipes are a good jumping off point and yet leave you wanting more. I’m guessing this is why mr. b offers many variations for brewers at all stages of this crazy ride. Happy brewing!

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https://www.love2brew.com/Articles.asp?ID=487

 

when you stir in your hme or lme, remove the pot from the heat first?

 

do you noticed scorch marks in the pan after you transfer it to the lbk?

 

i only noticed twang in one batch with dme that may have got a little scorched.

 

 

if mr beer is  using predominantly pride of ringwood hops that might contribute to the twangy quality too.. . if memory serves.

also really old, improperly stored hops can pick up a cheesy funk. ive had that happen once but fortunately just the cheesy funky aroma. flavor was still good.

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5 hours ago, zorak1066 said:

https://www.love2brew.com/Articles.asp?ID=487

 

when you stir in your hme or lme, remove the pot from the heat first?

 

do you noticed scorch marks in the pan after you transfer it to the lbk?

 

i only noticed twang in one batch with dme that may have got a little scorched.

 

 

if mr beer is  using predominantly pride of ringwood hops that might contribute to the twangy quality too.. . if memory serves.

also really old, improperly stored hops can pick up a cheesy funk. ive had that happen once but fortunately just the cheesy funky aroma. flavor was still good

I take the pot off the heat and even let it sit for a minute while I get prepared to add the can of extract. 

The only constant is the Mr B HME. I'll have to let my beers condition even longer now and see if the situation gets better. 

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16 hours ago, Creeps McLane said:

Extract twang is a result of how HME is made. Ive only ever had it with HME. If you use HME you will have twang to some degree. The trick is to either stop using it or using it to your advantage. 

 

HME twang to me is a residual sweetness. A little something on the back of the tongue that just kinda sits there. You either need to dry it out with something like honey or use a higher attenuation yeast. You can also mask it with malty recipes or hoppy ones. Ive found that its hard to differentiate between the twang of extract and certain lager yeasts. So a lager may be a good idea also. Ask @Cato what he thinks about the topic. 

 

For me, i just moved to all grain since it was my destiny anyway. But others i feel have mastered this art. Partial mashes will help significantly. I think 1/2 cup of honey per batch does amazing things also. Ive commentes on this topic for years. Search the forum. Lots of good info on here

Honestly, I only noticed twang before I changed up my brewing routine a bit. @Creeps McLane has some good points here that should help a lot.
I'm a fan of higher attenuating neutral yeasts that will tolerate cooler fermenting temps, 63-64F. I get a cleaner taste with very low to no detectable esters. US-05 and Nottingham work well for most of what I brew. 

 

I mostly use the Craft HME's  with an LME, carapils, and always some hops. I also like adding honey on the IPA's.

I have a lot of fun and get good results from the partial mashes and no twang.

 

 

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The twang is what disappoints me in my MB beers. If I age a while, and when I've followed MB recipes that have hops and extract added, I notice it less. I have a Baltic Porter to brew, but I may try a simple extract recipe next, probably a pale ale based on Brewing Classic Styles.

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7 hours ago, 76shovel said:

 

 My Sir Kenneth tonight seems a bit twangy  I just tried the dash of salt  It works!

See, I do the salt thing with my coffee. I don't use cream, and the salt masks the bitterness. I've done it beers before too, but not with my own. Definitely trying it, maybe in the morning when I get off. Don't judge me, lol.

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59 minutes ago, epete28 said:

See, I do the salt thing with my coffee. I don't use cream, and the salt masks the bitterness. I've done it beers before too, but not with my own. Definitely trying it, maybe in the morning when I get off. Don't judge me, lol.

 

Did nights for a several years and there were plenty of morning beers...... but I was a lot younger. These days the shift alone would kill me.

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5 hours ago, 76shovel said:

 

Did nights for a several years and there were plenty of morning beers...... but I was a lot younger. These days the shift alone would kill me.

I'm 43 and just about every job I've had has involved night work. I enjoyed straight days for about 9 years as a local truck driver. I'm a railroader now.

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1 hour ago, epete28 said:

I'm 43 and just about every job I've had has involved night work. I enjoyed straight days for about 9 years as a local truck driver. I'm a railroader now.

No need to justify.....

Lol

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On 5/11/2018 at 3:48 PM, BDawg62 said:

Canmanron,

 

I understand the "twang" that you are getting.  I got it from any HME or LME batch that I brewed.  Then I tried DME and added my own hops and it all but disappeared.  Now with all grain it is gone completely. 

 

I use my tap water and campden tablets to dechlorinate it. 

 

Maybe try the DME approach or try Distilled water since the LME and HME already have the necessary minerals in them.

Dawg....the problem is all of the recipes out there are for 5 gallons. Is there a good dme recipe for 2 gal batches? Or should I just half them? I have had way too much apple cider tasting beer and I’m getting a little disheartened as well. I use gallon spring water from Kroger and follow the PM recipes to a T. Maybe the solution is letting them condition for several months? 

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6 hours ago, Jdub said:

Dawg....the problem is all of the recipes out there are for 5 gallons. Is there a good dme recipe for 2 gal batches? Or should I just half them? I have had way too much apple cider tasting beer and I’m getting a little disheartened as well. I use gallon spring water from Kroger and follow the PM recipes to a T. Maybe the solution is letting them condition for several months? 

I halve those 5 gal. recipes, or if I need to be more precise I'll scale it to 43% for a 2.13 gal batch and run it through Qbrew to make sure my numbers line up.

 

I know you're using temp control, so it's weird that you are still getting off flavors.

 

Must be that hot Texas weather causing some yeast stress!

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JDub,

 

Do as Cato says, I brew 2.5 gallons all the time.  I use Beersmith and just let it scale 5 gallon recipes to 2.5 gallons.  But if you don't have Beersmith, you can just halve a 5 gallon recipe and it will be good.  With DME it is very easy to weigh out your ingredients prior to brewing.

 

I only brew 5 gallons when I am satisfied with how a beer turns out, after several 2.5 gallon batches.  One thing to remember is that your next door neighbor can brew a recipe and you can brew the exact same recipe and both beers will be different.  Maybe only slightly different, but they will be different.  Equipment and a lot of other factors play a role in how your beer turns out, not just the recipe.

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