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youdontknowme311

Conditioning/Cider flavor

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So I brewed Bindlestick about 8 weeks ago. Fermented 3 weeks at 66°, cold crashed for 3 days and batched primed. Carbonated for 3 weeks between 70°-74° and then stored them in a box in my closet which was anywhere between 64°-76°. Conditioning time is recommended for 1-2 weeks so I tried one at one week and it tasted great! So I waited another week and put another one in the fridge for 3 days and it's completely different. Taste and reeks of cider. 

 

I've had many batches where some taste great and some taste like cider. What am I doing wrong? Are some bottles conditioning while others are not? Or is it a cleaning/sanitizing issue? Any help would be appreciated... starting to drive me crazy.

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10 hours ago, youdontknowme311 said:

So I brewed Bindlestick about 8 weeks ago. Fermented 3 weeks at 66°, cold crashed for 3 days and batched primed. Carbonated for 3 weeks between 70°-74° and then stored them in a box in my closet which was anywhere between 64°-76°. Conditioning time is recommended for 1-2 weeks so I tried one at one week and it tasted great! So I waited another week and put another one in the fridge for 3 days and it's completely different. Taste and reeks of cider. 

 

I've had many batches where some taste great and some taste like cider. What am I doing wrong? Are some bottles conditioning while others are not? Or is it a cleaning/sanitizing issue? Any help would be appreciated... starting to drive me crazy.

This is a partial mash recipe, with US-05 yeast, I wouldn’t think you’d be getting those flavors at all. I think extended conditioning will help this particular batch. 

 

Did this pour warm up a little before you drank it? I think more flavors come out as beer warms up including off flavors.

 

also, I think a lot has to do with your palette. There’s sometimes I drink one of my beers and think it’s the best beer ive ever had, then I come back the next day and taste something completely different. My favorite time to drink a beer is right after work before dinner cuz I haven’t had anything to eat or drink for awhile. 

 

I dont think anything you’re doing is wrong. If I were to change anything I would move to cold conditioning after the three weeks of carbonating. Perhaps it’s not acetaldehyde but twang your still tasting? How’s the carb level? I feel certain flavors are accented by over carbing 

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Beer was nice and chilled for 3 days and poured into a clean glass and I could smell it right away. The first one I drank had nice head retention and lacing and this one had no head whatsoever. I tried another one and the cidery flavor was dialed back a little but still there. Carb level seems good to me. It's been consistent in all of my batches and I think it tastes like green apples/cider but maybe it's not?

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1 hour ago, youdontknowme311 said:

Beer was nice and chilled for 3 days and poured into a clean glass and I could smell it right away. The first one I drank had nice head retention and lacing and this one had no head whatsoever. I tried another one and the cidery flavor was dialed back a little but still there. Carb level seems good to me. It's been consistent in all of my batches and I think it tastes like green apples/cider but maybe it's not?

What temp are you pitching at? 

 

Sounds like acetaldehyde for sure

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Usually between 64-68 depends how cold I get my spring water. I use a mini fridge with a temp control and the probe is taped to the side and I ferment between 64-66 so I know that's good. But like I said, one bottle was great almost like a store bought beer and the other 2 were awful.

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Hmm, I probably can't help here but my cider tastes went away when I controlled my temps both in a cooler and now the mini fridge with controller. 

Do you have your mini fridge set on it's coldest level? Do you have your probe insulated by a folded cloth or sponge and below the wort line? I set my inkbird to 64 with a 1 degree temp differential so that it kicks on the fridge at 65 and shuts off at 63.

 

Do you use a bottle wand? Do you prop up your LBK when fermenting, cold crashing, and bottling?

 

Trub doesn't taste good so you have to be careful when you pour to leave about a quarter inch of beer in the bottle.

 

I know this is all basic stuff but it seems like if you have cider tastes it would come from yeast stress somewhere like pitch temp or fermenting temps, and it would effect the whole batch. I'd think you would taste it in either a taste sampling or hydrometer sampling.

 

When re-using bottles I use an unscented soap like 7th generation to initially wash them and then rinse several times before putting them on the bottle tree to dry.

 

All your procedures sound really solid and good, so it could be some seemingly minor error causing this, so doesn't hurt to review each step.

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4 hours ago, Cato said:

Hmm, I probably can't help here but my cider tastes went away when I controlled my temps both in a cooler and now the mini fridge with controller. 

Do you have your mini fridge set on it's coldest level? Do you have your probe insulated by a folded cloth or sponge and below the wort line? I set my inkbird to 64 with a 1 degree temp differential so that it kicks on the fridge at 65 and shuts off at 63.

 

Do you use a bottle wand? Do you prop up your LBK when fermenting, cold crashing, and bottling?

 

Trub doesn't taste good so you have to be careful when you pour to leave about a quarter inch of beer in the bottle.

 

I know this is all basic stuff but it seems like if you have cider tastes it would come from yeast stress somewhere like pitch temp or fermenting temps, and it would effect the whole batch. I'd think you would taste it in either a taste sampling or hydrometer sampling.

 

When re-using bottles I use an unscented soap like 7th generation to initially wash them and then rinse several times before putting them on the bottle tree to dry.

 

All your procedures sound really solid and good, so it could be some seemingly minor error causing this, so doesn't hurt to review each step.

 

I do everything you mentioned. I use a face cloth to insulate the probe and my set point is 65 with 1 degree differential. I prop the fermenter up regardless if I'm using an LBK or the 2 gallon brewmax. I use uncented dish soap also or brewery wash to clean bottles and I also use a bottle tree. When it comes to conditioning sometimes it's hard to maintain 70 degrees as I live in the Northeast and one day it's 90 and the next it's 50 lol. So I either use the mini fridge or cooler with a heating pad to control temps. But maybe not all the bottles are conditioning at the same rate?

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34 minutes ago, youdontknowme311 said:

 

I do everything you mentioned. I use a face cloth to insulate the probe and my set point is 65 with 1 degree differential. I prop the fermenter up regardless if I'm using an LBK or the 2 gallon brewmax. I use uncented dish soap also or brewery wash to clean bottles and I also use a bottle tree. When it comes to conditioning sometimes it's hard to maintain 70 degrees as I live in the Northeast and one day it's 90 and the next it's 50 lol. So I either use the mini fridge or cooler with a heating pad to control temps. But maybe not all the bottles are conditioning at the same rate?

I'd think all the bottles would condition similarly.

 

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This is a great topic. I only have about 12 batches under my belt now but the majority have a cidery twang about them. My tangerous ipa I just tried was completely devoid of cider. I had never used long play hme before either. I did nothing different as far as temps....etc. This is after 1 month in bottles. Then I try my voodoo which I bottled 2 months ago and quite cidery. I’m gonna try a recipe soon with no canned hme. Just grains, hops and dme. I’m willing to bet in advanced that I won’t get a cider taste. Not sure. 

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I guess everybody's pallete reacts differently when it comes to homebrewing with HME and perhaps what they call twang.

 

My old taste buds identify it as that lingering sweetness on the tongue. @Creeps McLane described that well recently in a similar post. I don't mind it really, it's just not as crisp a finish as a commercial brew. I haven't gotten any off flavor esters, pear, apple, cider, since I went to fermenting 63-64F in a cooler and now the mini fridge with inkbird. Hops will totally mask it for me until they start to fade.

 

Drying it out with a half cup of honey like in that saison recipe he gave us gave as close to a crisp finish as I've been able to manage thus far.

I'll be curious to see how a couple brews in my queue do that are coming up in the next week or so as those are PM's with LME, grains, and hops.

 

 

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13 hours ago, Jdub said:

This is a great topic. I only have about 12 batches under my belt now but the majority have a cidery twang about them. My tangerous ipa I just tried was completely devoid of cider. I had never used long play hme before either. I did nothing different as far as temps....etc. This is after 1 month in bottles. Then I try my voodoo which I bottled 2 months ago and quite cidery. I’m gonna try a recipe soon with no canned hme. Just grains, hops and dme. I’m willing to bet in advanced that I won’t get a cider taste. Not sure. 

 

I brewed Long Play with nothing added. Half the batch tasted like a solid IPA and the other half was a underwhelming mess. That's the thing that confuses me. 

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8 hours ago, Cato said:

I guess everybody's pallete reacts differently when it comes to homebrewing with HME and perhaps what they call twang.

 

My old taste buds identify it as that lingering sweetness on the tongue. @Creeps McLane described that well recently in a similar post. I don't mind it really, it's just not as crisp a finish as a commercial brew. I haven't gotten any off flavor esters, pear, apple, cider, since I went to fermenting 63-64F in a cooler and now the mini fridge with inkbird. Hops will totally mask it for me until they start to fade.

 

Drying it out with a half cup of honey like in that saison recipe he gave us gave as close to a crisp finish as I've been able to manage thus far.

I'll be curious to see how a couple brews in my queue do that are coming up in the next week or so as those are PM's with LME, grains, and hops.

 

 

 

I've read about extract twang before and it's not just a slight sweetness I pick up. Some bottles are so overwhelmingly bad which makes me me believe I'm doing something wrong with my process. I just don't know what and I'm getting bummed out.

 

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1 hour ago, youdontknowme311 said:

 

I brewed Long Play with nothing added. Half the batch tasted like a solid IPA and the other half was a underwhelming mess. That's the thing that confuses me. 

Man, that sure sounds like too much trub or something in the bottling end. Do you batch prime or bottle prime? I've not done batch priming, but use 1 domino sugar dot per bottle.

Yeah, I know I'm likely stretching looking for the problem and I'm at a loss as to how part of a batch could be different from the rest. Somebody more qualified may have some ideas. Your procedures have all sounded solid to me.

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18 minutes ago, Cato said:

Man, that sure sounds like too much trub or something in the bottling end. Do you batch prime or bottle prime? I've not done batch priming, but use 1 domino sugar dot per bottle.

Yeah, I know I'm likely stretching looking for the problem and I'm at a loss as to how part of a batch could be different from the rest. Somebody more qualified may have some ideas. Your procedures have all sounded solid to me.

 I use to bottle prime but the last 5 batches I've batch primed but same result.

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The only thing that I can think of is the water. That is the one constant for me. I use Walmart or Kroger gallon jugs of spring water. My temps for fermenting are in the low to mid 60’s. I still get that apple cider taste. Will let some of these condition longer and see what happens. 

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4 hours ago, youdontknowme311 said:

 

I've read about extract twang before and it's not just a slight sweetness I pick up. Some bottles are so overwhelmingly bad which makes me me believe I'm doing something wrong with my process. I just don't know what and I'm getting bummed out.

 

What type of pot do you use when you brew? 

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2 hours ago, Jdub said:

The only thing that I can think of is the water. That is the one constant for me. I use Walmart or Kroger gallon jugs of spring water. My temps for fermenting are in the low to mid 60’s. I still get that apple cider taste. Will let some of these condition longer and see what happens. 

 I usually get spring water from Wal-Mart or the market near my house. I use tap water to clean and sanatize everything but I've read that using tap to clean shouldn't make a difference.

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1 hour ago, youdontknowme311 said:

 I usually get spring water from Wal-Mart or the market near my house. I use tap water to clean and sanatize everything but I've read that using tap to clean shouldn't make a difference.

Does a quick read point out any obvious flaws in how you brew?

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/beerandbrewing.com/amp/off-flavor-of-the-week-acetaldehyde

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On 5/29/2018 at 10:04 PM, Creeps McLane said:

 

Does a quick read point out any obvious flaws in how you brew?

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/beerandbrewing.com/amp/off-flavor-of-the-week-acetaldehyde

 

No not really, I think I'm pretty anal about sanatizing but maybe I need to reevaluate my cleaning and sanitizing. But other than that my temps are solid so I honestly just don't know what to do.

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11 minutes ago, youdontknowme311 said:

 

No not really, I think I'm pretty anal about sanatizing but maybe I need to reevaluate my cleaning and sanitizing. But other than that my temps are solid so I honestly just don't know what to do.

What kind of temp controller?

 

what temp are you pitching at? 

 

Whos your favorite x-men character?

 

how long are you fermenting?

 

is your spigot clean? I dont think its cleanliness. I think you’re sensitive to that taste. That or you’re perception of sweetness is actually cider. 

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19 minutes ago, Creeps McLane said:

What kind of temp controller?

 

what temp are you pitching at? 

 

Whos your favorite x-men character?

 

how long are you fermenting?

 

is your spigot clean? I dont think its cleanliness. I think you’re sensitive to that taste. That or you’re perception of sweetness is actually cider. 

 

I use a inkbird controller.

 

I pitch yeast around 64-68.

 

Lol Wolverine. 

 

Always ferment for 3 weeks then cold crash.

 

Spigot is always clean, always pull it apart afterwards. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, youdontknowme311 said:

 

I use a inkbird controller.

 

I pitch yeast around 64-68.

 

Lol Wolverine. 

 

Always ferment for 3 weeks then cold crash.

 

Spigot is always clean, always pull it apart afterwards. 

 

 

Youre doing everything right as far as i can tell. Your problem is a puzzling one... maybe your controller is set to celcius and your controller isnt cooling... that could be the last idea i have. You said you did a partial mash with us-05 as your yeast right? With 05 youd have to be up in the 70s to get an unmistakable off flavor.

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I’m starting to wonder about conditioning temps. I store all mine upstairs where the temp is 68-78. I always figured it’s supposed to be warmer for conditioning. Don’t have a constantly cool place like a basement to store in. 

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