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Gutterbunnie

SMASH & BIAB

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Been contemplating  all grain, BIAB, SMASH IPA recipe after watching Mr Beer on Twitch about all grain brewing. At least to give it a try. I've had success so far with extract, & partial mash, and embarking on a new technique sounds exciting. The recipe I want to do calls for 5lbs Marris otter Pale with Falconer's Flight pellet hops. I don't know if I like Falconer's Flight but I just had a local IPA with Simcoe that was very tasty. Just weighing in on what might be the best hops for a SMASH. What are others' experiences? I read that sparging is not necessary but some will do fly sparging, just running some hot water through the grain bag after mashing. Any thoughts on that as far as efficiency? Wish me luck on my next venture!

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8 hours ago, Gutterbunnie said:

Been contemplating  all grain, BIAB, SMASH IPA recipe after watching Mr Beer on Twitch about all grain brewing. At least to give it a try. I've had success so far with extract, & partial mash, and embarking on a new technique sounds exciting. The recipe I want to do calls for 5lbs Marris otter Pale with Falconer's Flight pellet hops. I don't know if I like Falconer's Flight but I just had a local IPA with Simcoe that was very tasty. Just weighing in on what might be the best hops for a SMASH. What are others' experiences? I read that sparging is not necessary but some will do fly sparging, just running some hot water through the grain bag after mashing. Any thoughts on that as far as efficiency? Wish me luck on my next venture!

First of all congrats on making the jump.  I will try to answer your questions but remember these are just my opinions, others will have other opinions.

 

1.  As far as hops variety for an SMASH - this one is kind of your preference.  I am partial to Citra but if you found one that you like using Simcoe, then you should try that.  Experimentation is the most fun part of brewing.  If it doesn't turn out like you want, there are plenty of friends that you can give beer to that will be thankful and you can brew another.

2.  Sparging - Generally with BIAB there is no sparging and because of this you won't get the efficiency that a brewer who sparges will get.  But it also allows you to only have 1 kettle and no mash tun.  Less equipment and thus less expense.  If you have a second kettle you can mash with less water (1.5 to 2qts per # of grain) and then use a collander over your brewpot and sparge with the remaining water to get to boil volume.

 

I do a suedo BIAB using a Home Depot 5 gallon water cooler and a paint strainer bag.  I have attached a ball valve and then when my mash is complete I drain the tun into my kettle and then batch sparge the grains in the water cooler.  It works for me and I generally get 75% or higher brewhouse efficiency.  By using the bag I don't have to worry about stuck mashes or how slowly I drain the tun because I can just lift the grains out of the way of the outlet.  This is a cheap way to go from kettle BIAB to a mash tun that allows sparging.

 

Good Luck,

Dawg

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"Sparging - Generally with BIAB there is no sparging and because of this you won't get the efficiency that a brewer who sparges will get.  But it also allows you to only have 1 kettle and no mash tun.  Less equipment and thus less expense.  If you have a second kettle you can mash with less water (1.5 to 2qts per # of grain) and then use a collander over your brewpot and sparge with the remaining water to get to boil volume.

 

I do a suedo BIAB using a Home Depot 5 gallon water cooler and a paint strainer bag.  I have attached a ball valve and then when my mash is complete I drain the tun into my kettle and then batch sparge the grains in the water cooler. "

 

Thanks for advice BDawg62! I will think about a DIY sparge system, or maybe try dunk sparging in another pot. next time. Because my efficiency wasn't fantastic. Still, 1st AG mission accomplished! I brewed on the 4th. Did not hit my expected OG, which was 1.067. Initially at preboil it was around 1.050 so then I did a late addition DME which brought my final OG to approx. 1.059. All in all for my first attempt it went fairly smoothly & even if OG was short, I'll get beer;) Ice bath got temps down under 100F in less than 20 minutes. Very happy about that. So one issue I ran into is the  boil volume.  I think I added a little too much water pre-boil trying to sparge, and so then I compensated by doing a longer overall boil & then in the end, I had to add cold water to LBK to hit my 2 gallon mark. Helped get my temps down to 80F so I could pitch sooner, so that was a win-win. Lessons learned & I'll have a better sense of the process & how much water to add preboil for next AG adventure.

 

Happy to report that fermentation seems to be going well 24 hrs later there is good, thick Krausen & holding temps at 61 ambient with Safale US05.

 

Oh yeah & one more thing.  I noticed there was a lot more sediment than I'm used to with extract. From what I read that is likely the protein break & that should settle to bottom on fermenter. My concern is  it will clog the spigot upon bottling time. I don't use a siphon when bottling but, maybe it's time to buy more equipment & learn something new. I should have read up on finings & Whirlpooling. Which is better for AG when I'm still just doing 2 gallon batches in my LBKs? I could try Whirlpool method when cooling & try to separate out as much sediment from getting into fermenter. Or, is the sediment good for happy yeast?

20180704_101956.jpg

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i do almost the same process .. a sort of biab, with a sparge... and like you end up with lots of break. i up my efficiency by splitting the sparge volume in half. i add chemicals to the first sparge.. dont bother with the second half.  i bring the temp of the first sparge water to almost 185f-195f.  toss it into the drained cooler. stir well and put the lid on.  it should raise the temp of the grain to about 170f. after 15 mins i stir well, cover and let sit for another 15 minutes. then drain into pot.  this is my mash out... of sorts.  then take whatever i need from the last of the sparge water for one quick final rinse. or sometimes i just do one sparge / mash out and let it go 45 mins and stir it every 15 minutes.

 

i get way better efficiency than just doing a normal biab, and when doing a higher grav beer i get about 70-75 % efficiency.  my first foray into all grain was a russian imperial and i got horrible efficiency with just a biab. ended up at about 50%...horrible!

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@Gutterbunnie, the quicker you're able to cool down the wort, the better your cold break will be. Whirlfloc/ Irish moss will help but aren't necessary. You will find as many arguing for leaving the cold break in as you will those who say to siphon off. Personally, I haven't noticed any difference in fermentation or flavors, only the layer of trub is thicker.

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Great idea! was wondering if cold crashing this one before bottling would help things compact & limit issues like clogged spigot. It's a learning process. Probably will at least attempt whirlpool for next AG to limit some of the protein break going into fermenter. Well, 3 days later, still going strong! Kind of weird looking on top of Krausen but I'm used to some pretty strange looking fermentations by now ;)

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So far with AG batch, things are still looking good. Keeping the temps down. Into day 8 & Krausen is just beginning to drop *I think*. I've only ever had one other batch go this long with such a high Krausen & that was using WYEAST 1272. For this batch I used Safale US-05. Well here's a pic from this morning of my BIAB in LBK. Not sure you can tell but the Krausen had reached the top on the corners of LBK. If temps had been higher, I think it would have oozed out the lid;)

 

20180712_091818.thumb.jpg.22b73ea30c285c2f9bca7405c509a033.jpg

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Bottled yesterday after cold crashing 3 days in fridge. FG looked good at around 1.005. Cold crashing worked great and beer came out of spigot much clearer than I was expecting considering all the sediment initially. There was a lot of trub, but not that much more than extract brews.

 

Questions:  this being my first BIAB SMASH, I am not sure if it was my recipe, my process or just this particular grain (Maris Otter) but the sample was strong on the malt aroma & flavor, with a little bitterness on the end. How will flavors change after carbonating & conditioning - will the malt mellow & will the carbonation bring out the hops (Falconer's Flight) more? Or will this just be a very malty brew? What should I do next time to correct this? Other than the super-maltiness, I didn't detect any other off flavors or aromas. Just very grainy/bready. I thought 1.5 oz of pellet hops & almost 90 minute boil for a 2 gallon batch would have been sufficient......but then I also added some light DME as late addition, and some more hops. Maybe that was my mistake? Would dry hopping have helped? Cheers!

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6 hours ago, Gutterbunnie said:

Questions:  this being my first BIAB SMASH, I am not sure if it was my recipe, my process or just this particular grain (Maris Otter) but the sample was strong on the malt aroma & flavor, with a little bitterness on the end. How will flavors change after carbonating & conditioning - will the malt mellow & will the carbonation bring out the hops (Falconer's Flight) more? Or will this just be a very malty brew? What should I do next time to correct this? Other than the super-maltiness, I didn't detect any other off flavors or aromas. Just very grainy/bready. I thought 1.5 oz of pellet hops & almost 90 minute boil for a 2 gallon batch would have been sufficient......but then I also added some light DME as late addition, and some more hops. Maybe that was my mistake? Would dry hopping have helped? Cheers!

Gutterbunnie,

 

If you can post your recipe with hop addition amounts and times it will help us answer.  

 

Maris Otter is a grain that does produce a stronger malt aroma and flavor. 

Carbonation will help to bring out the hops to a degree but maybe not to the level you are looking for.

 

Dawg 

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For 2 Gallon recipe:

5 lbs Maris Otter Pale malt

1lb light DME, late addition (20 min) to increase efficiency as recipe indicated OG should be 1.067 - I only got 1.058 even after adding the DME

 

Mashed @ 152F for 60 min

 

Hop schedule, per the recipe:

.25oz Falconer's Flight @ 60 min

.5 oz FF @ 20

.5 oz FF @10

.25 oz FF @ 0

 

Yeast - Safale  US-05, dry pitched entire packet

 

I ended up going about 20 min longer on boil (to condense wort- too much water added while sparging.) But I realized later  it really wasn't necessary. I'm thinking of finding a way to mark the inside of my kettle - gallon or half  gallon marks on the inside- so I know my post boil volumes & how much I'm losing in evaporation.

 

I didn't dry hop but thinking that might have helped some......? My attenuation seemed fine - around 1.005. It's not too sweet just very, very malty on the nose. Thanks!

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GB,

I put your recipe into Beersmith and had to drop my efficiency almost to 40% to get the OG that you ended up with. Did you make sure your wort was mixed up well when you took your reading?  With AG the sugars can settle and the wort on top after cooling doesn’t always reflect the correct sugar content of the wort. At 72% efficiency for a 2 gallon batch the OG should have been 1.090.  

 

Also the extra 20 minutes added to your boil would have changed your hop profiles away from flavor and aroma and add bittering. Try setting your boil off on your next batch to somewhere between .75 and 1 gallon per hour. As you do more batches you will be able to dial it in to a number that you can rely on. Also it is better to figure it to low because you can always add water to bring your wort to the desired volume. 

 

To measure your kettle volume use a dowel and add measured amounts of water to your kettle. At the desired increments make marks with permanent marker on the dowel.  Then all you have to do is insert the dowel and the marks will give you your volume. If you are really adventurous you can look up etching on the internet and or YouTube and easily etch the inside of your kettle. 

 

Keep at at it and remember that this was your first AG batch.  While you know the processes, changing to AG adds to your learning curve. Don’t worry so much about hitting your gravity readings at first and just brew to refine your process. 

 

Dawg

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8 hours ago, D Kristof said:

@BDawg62, I jever thought of using a dowel. Brilliant.

Every once in a while I even surprise myself.

 

I can't however take full credit for this one.  I saw it somewhere and stole the idea before I had etched kettles.

 

To be completely sure of volume you need a dowel with marks made using boiling water and then a long handled plastic spoon or mash paddle (plastic so it can be sanitized) using cold water. There is actually a difference in volume at different temps. 

 

 

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It is a great idea.  FedoraDave posted it some years ago, that's where I got the idea from.  Can't find his post, just my mention of it in 2015.  Amazing how simple ideas are when we want to do them all fancy.

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Thanks! The dowel will be my  DIY before next AG. And I  recently bought a plastic mash paddle. A mistake for sure was altering that SMASH recipe. For now,  I won't worry so much about the OG. Will just pay more attention to process & sticking to recipes. Extract brewing sure makes homebrewing easy &  AG gives me a much greater appreciation for Mr Beer. I've had success with the partial mash, and  Golden Empire IPA  has been a hit with friends & neighbors. Which is why I bought another recipe to make again soon :D

 

Anyway, I do have plans for another AG BIAB. Not a SMASH but still fairly simple. 2 Grains, some added sugar. 3 different hops. I've been enjoying Voodoo Ranger Hazy Juicy IPA by New Belgium brewery (@ $10/ 6-pack - so expensive to buy craft beer these days!) I looked up a few clone recipes for Voodoo Ranger, & that may be my next AG attempt. I realize mine will not turn out like the store-bought  one, but it might be a good next attempt using some different grains (American Pale 2Row, Caramel 120L, Chinook, Simcoe & Cacade hops). Try, try again - it's my mission to make a drinkable All Grain!

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Today I brewed my 2nd AG attempt, a Voodoo Ranger IPA clone, BIAB. All in all it went pretty well. Took me  5 hours  (including clean-up) compared to a Mr Beer partial mash which takes on average, 1.5 hours. And that's usually because I'm not in a hurry. I've definitely noticed that not being able to sparge efficiently using the bag is seriously affecting my overall efficiency. But, I listened, and I stuck to recipe & paid attention to process.  I didn't try to hit a specific OG. No late DME additions. As I've read time & time again, better to chase flavor than alcohol. I think the hops will shine through in this one - the hydrometer sample had great hop aromas (didn't notice any overpowering malt like last MOFF SMASH). My LHBS gave me some pointers & suggested I use  IBU calculations - so I used this: https://www.brewersfriend.com/ibu-calculator/.  Used a few specialty grains in addition to the 2Row base grain, & used 4 hops: Chinook, Simcoe, Mosaic & Cascade. I'm going to dry hop @ 7 days. I look forward to trying this one!:D

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