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I believe that some of the extract "Twang" and off flavors has to do with the fermenting temperature (often too high) and short conditioning time. Lately, all my beers are extract with a little extra malt and perhaps hops added, and they have been very good. Perhaps my taste buds are not so refined.

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Crushed. Milled would be ok if you don't mind the flour dust. Occasionally my LHBS has the grain mill set too fine and I get a lot of flour. Not necessary, but if you have the patience, chill your wort after steeping, pour it into a container which you can refrigerate for a couple hours then pour off the top into your kettle and brew as normal. 

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18 minutes ago, D Kristof said:

Crushed. Milled would be ok if you don't mind the flour dust. Occasionally my LHBS has the grain mill set too fine and I get a lot of flour. Not necessary, but if you have the patience, chill your wort after steeping, pour it into a container which you can refrigerate for a couple hours then pour off the top into your kettle and brew as normal. 

How do you crush it ? If it comes whole.

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54 minutes ago, Fire Rooster said:

How do you crush it ? If it comes whole.

my lhbs asks me if want grains milled or whole, i didn't know either at 1st, but you want them milled. when you get grains from mr beer in a PM kit, they are milled/crushed.

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10 hours ago, Jdub said:

my lhbs asks me if want grains milled or whole, i didn't know either at 1st, but you want them milled. when you get grains from mr beer in a PM kit, they are milled/crushed.

(others can chime in)

Did you use citra pellet or leaf hops ?

What would be the reason to use pellet hop over leaf hop ? or leaf hop over pellet ?

The best I can tell leaf hops are best for dry hopping, is this true ?

Are leaf hops less sterile than pellet hops ?

 

 

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I'd think the pellet hops are easier to use as they don't take up much room in the fermenter or cause bottling issues or sparging issues in the kettle if they're in a hopsack. Plus they store very well in the fridge in a ziplock.

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1 hour ago, Fire Rooster said:

(others can chime in)

Did you use citra pellet or leaf hops ?

What would be the reason to use pellet hop over leaf hop ? or leaf hop over pellet ?

The best I can tell leaf hops are best for dry hopping, is this true ?

Are leaf hops less sterile than pellet hops ?

 

 

i have only used pellet hops. never used whole leaf hops.

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1 hour ago, Fire Rooster said:

What would be the reason to use pellet hop over leaf hop ? or leaf hop over pellet ?

The best I can tell leaf hops are best for dry hopping, is this true ?

Are leaf hops less sterile than pellet hops ?

 

 

There would be no reason to use leaf hops ever.  

Beyond Sierra Nevada, most commercial brewers never use leaf hops.

There is a big list of reasons to not use whole hops - they absorb a lot more wort, you need much more than pellet hops, they are less-consistent than pellet hops, ...  

 

If you do some Googling around comparing leaf vs. pellet hops, you can find a lot more reasons to not use leaf hops.

 

A reason to use them would be if you grow your own hops, which some have tried.  Several issues - hops are poisonous to dogs, creatures may eat your hops, and you need much more than with pellet hops.

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13 hours ago, Fire Rooster said:

How do you crush it ? If it comes whole.

If you have grains that are not crushed, you can put small amounts in a baggie and crush with a rolling pin (not easy).  I have done it with this method and after one time made sure my grains were always crushed.  You can also use a food processor but that makes a mess.  I now have my own mill so not an issue.

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20 minutes ago, BDawg62 said:

If you have grains that are not crushed, you can put small amounts in a baggie and crush with a rolling pin (not easy).  I have done it with this method and after one time made sure my grains were always crushed.  You can also use a food processor but that makes a mess.  I now have my own mill so not an issue.

Great reason to have a two speed drill!

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Whole grains can't brew beer.  They must be crushed in some manner.  Milling crushes the grain, a properly set mill will crack open the grain kernel and expose the endosperm, i.e. the inside.  That's critical to mashing.  

 

The object of milling is not to make flour, and not to destroy the outer husk of the grain.  Why?  Because the mash is recirculated, i.e. the cloudy wort with bits of crap in it is sprayed into the top of the mash tun and is filtered by the grain bed.  In addition, when a mash is sparged (water run through it), the water needs to be filtered by the grain to get let the good stuff through, and keep the crap behind (a non-scientific explanation).  If it's milled too fine, then water won't find a path through the grain (think of ants in an ant hill making tunnels), and the sparge can get "stuck" or clogged.  

 

One way to prevent a stuck sparge is to use rice hulls.  

 

Some methods of brewing can use highly milled, even pulverized grain, such as BIAB (Brew In A Bag).  Why?  Two reasons.  First, the grain is in a bag (for example a 5 gallon paint bag), and that bag filters the mash just fine).  Second, a sparge in a mash tun is not the same as a sparge with BIAB.  In a mash tun, you don't want the grain bed to collapse, so you start sparging before all the wort drains out.  With BIAB, you lift the bag up and sparge it while it's sitting in a big strainer or collander.  

 

Hope this helps, tried to keep out the jargon.  

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2 hours ago, RickBeer said:

 

There would be no reason to use leaf hops ever.  

Beyond Sierra Nevada, most commercial brewers never use leaf hops.

There is a big list of reasons to not use whole hops - they absorb a lot more wort, you need much more than pellet hops, they are less-consistent than pellet hops, ...  

 

If you do some Googling around comparing leaf vs. pellet hops, you can find a lot more reasons to not use leaf hops.

 

A reason to use them would be if you grow your own hops, which some have tried.  Several issues - hops are poisonous to dogs, creatures may eat your hops, and you need much more than with pellet hops.

How about Cryo-Citra-Pellet vs Citra-Pellet ? for the Zombie Dust clone.

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15 minutes ago, Fire Rooster said:

How about Cryo-Citra-Pellet vs Citra-Pellet ? for the Zombie Dust clone.

 

Rick mentions no reason to use hop leaves 'ever' (citing Sierra Nevada as an exception).  He's maybe right but I will tell you that I used hope leaves, (and buds) just the other day to dry-hop my my Squirley Dog.  But I did it in a fashion that avoided the absorbing of any wort.  I made a hop tea in my french press and after it cooled sufficiently, added it directly to the wort on day 14 of fermentation.  It added about a pint of the most delicious smelling liquid imaginable.  The leaves came from that big bag of hops my wife bought at the Christmas bazaar.

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44 minutes ago, Fire Rooster said:

How about Cryo-Citra-Pellet vs Citra-Pellet ? for the Zombie Dust clone.

Cryo hops will work but remember they are much more potent than regular pellet hops.  I have not used them myself but understand that they perform best later in the boil and dry hopping.  Maybe use regular pellets for your bittering addition and use Cryo for flavor, aroma and of course dry hop.

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58 minutes ago, Creeps McLane said:

Im 90% sure even sierra nevada doesnt use whole leaf hops anymore. Was it Mitch Steele who used to work there? Whoever it was, I listened to a podcast with him and he was talking about the transition of moving to pellet hops

They still use whole hops to my understanding, and the Torpedo line of beers is definitely with whole hops.

 

https://www.sierranevada.com/faq/beer/what-are-the-ingredients-used-in-sierra-nevada-beers

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2 minutes ago, RickBeer said:

They still use whole hops to my understanding, and the Torpedo line of beers is definitely with whole hops.

 

https://www.sierranevada.com/faq/beer/what-are-the-ingredients-used-in-sierra-nevada-beers

Thata right, i think thats when he was working at miller that he was talking about switching over.

 

i did hear on a different podcast that sierra nevada is experimenting heavily with cryo hops

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