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StretchNM

Infection Leading to Sour Aftertaste?

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I've been reading old posts page-by-page. Somewhere on page 4 or 5 was a thread on fermenting infections. There was 1 picture but then the OP was referred to google beer yeast infections, so I did that. I couldn't find much that was clear and intelligible to me.

 

I brewed my very first Mr Beer batch back near the end of January, and bottled and carbonated it until March 4. It had a sour aftertaste. I don't know if "sour" is the correct word, so just imagine a cidery, wine-like, sourness. Just an aftertaste. It's otherwise very drinkable. Anyway, at bottling time I saw these small, white, circles of tiny bubbles floating on the surface. A quick call to Mr Beer and it was diagnosed as most likely "yeast rafts". These little "rafts', again, are small white bubbles and I have a picture or two attached. They look like white spots in the picture, but they really are tiny bubbles clustered into small circles.

 

Can anyone diagnose this? I'm wondering now if that was gave my batch a "soury" aftertaste.

 

Thank you

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Yeast rafts.

 

Also, don't open LBK to take pictures of wort during fermentation.

 

3-4.

 

3 weeks fermentation, with temp of wort around 65.

 

4 weeks in bottles, temps of 70 or higher.

 

Then refrigerate only what you're ready to drink for 3 days or more, leaving the rest to continue to condition.

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6 hours ago, RickBeer said:

Yeast rafts.

 

Also, don't open LBK to take pictures of wort during fermentation.

.....)

That picture was taken just before bottling. No, the cap stayed on until bottling day. In fact, I even bottled it before calling Mr. Beer about the yeast rafts, mostly because I had everything set up and waiting. Now, I had tasted a shot glass full out of the spigot earlier that morning, and that's when I first noticed the aftertaste, but I didn;t notice the rafts until bottling time.

 

I did my fermentation in a regular Walmart cooler which was at about 60-62 degrees for the duration of the ferment. I really don't know what the wort temperature was, but a little thermometer sticker that came with my Kit showed the temperature to be "right" the whole time. I was anal about peeking in with a flashlight at all hours. This little thermometer doesn't show degrees, it's just a three-way: too warm, just right, and too cool. It stayed in the checkmark center position the whole time.

 

Anyway, thank you. If they're indeed yeast rafts then they probably didn't cause the aftertaste, is that right? I've discussed this "sourness" a little in another thread (carbonation vs conditioning) and the only thing left to conclude is that I did something wrong during sanitizing.
 

Attached is a small picture of the thermometer on the keg. I'm brewing 1776 Ale right now and the "checkmark" has been very steady, indicating proper temperature. Safale US-05 yeast was used in this one. The two flip top bottles you see are two of the bottles I put back for more conditioning. I'm trying these two at the cooler temps in the cooler - the rest are in a top cabinet in the kitchen for warmth.

 

I'm seeking and following all advice given. I don't want another "sour" batch.

KegTherm-2.JPG

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i read your question and you said you saw the bubbles at bottling time. i assume you let it ferment for 3 weeks. did you cold crash? i have had yeast rafts before as well. cold crash and they will most likely disappear. cider taste could be extract twang. i have experienced that, even when fermenting at low temps. just the way it is sometimes. good luck and keep brewing.

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That sour batch was American Lager and I did not cold crash it. I really didn't know about it, but I read a link from rick beer's signature line about it now and will certainly cold crash this next batch.

 

Yes, Jdub, it fermented for 3 weeks to the day. I didn't have a hydrometer then so I just went by 21 days. Again, that morning before setting up all my bottling operation, I tasted a small sample from the spigot. I had learned that if it tasted sweet it was not ready. And if it tasted like flat beer, it was. Well, it tasted like flat beer with a "wine" smell and taste. After bottling and carbonating for three weeks that wine taste and smell subsided but you could taste the sourness in the aftertaste. Not a lot, but certainly noticeable.

 

Thanks

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28 minutes ago, StretchNM said:

That sour batch was American Lager and I did not cold crash it. I really didn't know about it, but I read a link from rick beer's signature line about it now and will certainly cold crash this next batch.

 

Yes, Jdub, it fermented for 3 weeks to the day. I didn't have a hydrometer then so I just went by 21 days. Again, that morning before setting up all my bottling operation, I tasted a small sample from the spigot. I had learned that if it tasted sweet it was not ready. And if it tasted like flat beer, it was. Well, it tasted like flat beer with a "wine" smell and taste. After bottling and carbonating for three weeks that wine taste and smell subsided but you could taste the sourness in the aftertaste. Not a lot, but certainly noticeable.

 

Thanks

i know exactly what you mean and it sounds like you fermented at a low temp, so you did it right. my 1st was am lager and it had a green apple cider taste. The beers will improve with some of the craft refills. even better are the partial mash recipes. keep it up!

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OK. Now I'm confused again. Sorry.

 

I was reading through sub-form Basic Brewing Techniques and found this thread from November 2017.

That thread provided the following link which had a picture of infected yeast (photo attached). https://www.homebrewsupply.com/learn/is-my-batch-infected.html

 

My yeast rafts in the picture in my first post in this thread look very suspiciously like the infection in the attached picture. Small, round, cells of tiny, white bubbles. Or am I missing the actual infection? I see some greyish, thin film dead center in the picture, but that just looks to me like camera light reflection. But the small, white floaters like exactly like the photo of my batch (top of this page).

Shed some light, please(?)

 

Thank you

 

 

minor-pellicle-F.jpg

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Here's what an infection looks like:

 

Or this:

100_3882.JPG&f=1

Or this:

proxy.php?image=http%253A%252F%252Fi.img

 

 

There are lots more examples.  Just DuckDuckGo "Infected Beer Fermenter" and you'll get plenty of photos.

Compare those to this example featuring tons of yeast rafts:

Yeast%2BRafts%2B(Belle%2BSaison).jpg&f=1

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Thank you Shrike. Then you too have looked at my pictures in the first post in this thread and agree with Mr Beer and Rick Beer that those are yeast rafts? I know they look like your last photo ("tons of yeast rafts") but I just want to be sure. Sorry to beat this dead horse so badly - I'm just trying to learn.

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12 minutes ago, StretchNM said:

Thank you Shrike. Then you too have looked at my pictures in the first post in this thread and agree with Mr Beer and Rick Beer that those are yeast rafts? I know they look like your last photo ("tons of yeast rafts") but I just want to be sure. Sorry to beat this dead horse so badly - I'm just trying to learn.

 

Yep, you had yeast rafts.  No need to apologize about all the questions.  You're going through what everyone on here has gone through, an acute case of B.B.A.: Beginner Brewer Anxiety.  :)

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yeast rafts take on many forms. when i use us04 i get floaty tan/orange colored clumps of yeast at multiple levels within the wort. some topside. some below. it's normal. yeast sometimes link hands and sing kumbaya for reasons only yeast know.

 

sour producing infections look like shrike's pics. when those snotty white clumps join up they form a 'pellicle'. it's like a semi-hard protective fingernail like scale to seal off the wort below and allow the bacteria to eat all your lovely alcohol.  i had a lacto bacillus infection in a pumpkin weis that looked like pic 2. big snotty white/grey bubbles. there is a difference between 'sour' and 'tart' that many people get confused on.  fermenting too hot produces a cidery green apple tartness that some perceive as 'sour'. true sour is more like eating unflavored, unsweetened yogurt. sour. puckering mouth, pinchy face sour.  atomic warhead candy sour. sucking on lemons sour. tart like you get in wheat beers, is more like semi ripe cherry sharpness of flavor. or perhaps real cranberry in nature.

 

acetobacter infections produce vinegar flavors. the more alcohol the bug converts to acetic acid, the more intense the off taste until it gets so strong you can actually damage your mouth.

 

brett-c infections produce the sour similar to a lacto infection. people intentionally brew with brett c to make various sour beers that i am not a fan of myself.

 

infections arent that common if you exercise even the slightest good hygiene when brewing.  there's an ancient thread here somewhere about Mashani's cat butt ale. lol... it's a classic.

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Well, I decided yesterday I'm not going to drink the rest of this batch... this American Lager. Whatever happened, it's not sitting well on my palate, and it's getting worse if it's getting anything at all. And.... I'll soon need the bottles for the upcoming batch. A shame. So I'll have to wait until my MRB 1776 Ale finishes (still one week to go in the fermenter) and until my all-grain English Pale Ale is done.

 

I bought a Sam Adams variety pack last week or early this one - Boston Lager, Bavarian Wheat, Cold Snap, and my newfound favorite... '76 Lager/Ale. Tonight I went out looking for a single Sierra Nevada "Torpedo" IPA (https://sierranevada.com/beer/year-round/torpedo-extra-ipa) based on a Youtube brewers review and unending praise. I couldn't get a single and, at 7.2% ABV, I wasn't going to get a six pack and run the risk of not liking it. So I picked up a six of Coors Banquet and found........???..... a nice little 4-pack of Grolsch! It's been so many years and I thought they were long gone, so I snatched it up for old times sake.

 

Ok. No homebrew talk in this post, but it is about beer. Maybe I can get away with it.

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2 hours ago, StretchNM said:

Well, I decided yesterday I'm not going to drink the rest of this batch... this American Lager. Whatever happened, it's not sitting well on my palate, and it's getting worse if it's getting anything at all. And.... I'll soon need the bottles for the upcoming batch. A shame. So I'll have to wait until my MRB 1776 Ale finishes (still one week to go in the fermenter) and until my all-grain English Pale Ale is done.

 

I bought a Sam Adams variety pack last week or early this one - Boston Lager, Bavarian Wheat, Cold Snap, and my newfound favorite... '76 Lager/Ale. Tonight I went out looking for a single Sierra Nevada "Torpedo" IPA (https://sierranevada.com/beer/year-round/torpedo-extra-ipa) based on a Youtube brewers review and unending praise. I couldn't get a single and, at 7.2% ABV, I wasn't going to get a six pack and run the risk of not liking it. So I picked up a six of Coors Banquet and found........???..... a nice little 4-pack of Grolsch! It's been so many years and I thought they were long gone, so I snatched it up for old times sake.

 

Ok. No homebrew talk in this post, but it is about beer. Maybe I can get away with it.

Stretch, you may already know this, but save your non-twist off bottles, like SA. they are great if/when you start using glass bottles. just my 2 cents.

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10 hours ago, StretchNM said:

Well, I decided yesterday I'm not going to drink the rest of this batch... this American Lager. Whatever happened, it's not sitting well on my palate, and it's getting worse if it's getting anything at all. And.... I'll soon need the bottles for the upcoming batch. A shame. So I'll have to wait until my MRB 1776 Ale finishes (still one week to go in the fermenter) and until my all-grain English Pale Ale is done.

 

I bought a Sam Adams variety pack last week or early this one - Boston Lager, Bavarian Wheat, Cold Snap, and my newfound favorite... '76 Lager/Ale. Tonight I went out looking for a single Sierra Nevada "Torpedo" IPA (https://sierranevada.com/beer/year-round/torpedo-extra-ipa) based on a Youtube brewers review and unending praise. I couldn't get a single and, at 7.2% ABV, I wasn't going to get a six pack and run the risk of not liking it. So I picked up a six of Coors Banquet and found........???..... a nice little 4-pack of Grolsch! It's been so many years and I thought they were long gone, so I snatched it up for old times sake.

 

Ok. No homebrew talk in this post, but it is about beer. Maybe I can get away with it.

More appropriate for the Community Drain Pipe heading, but as long as @RickBeer isn't around we'll let your first mistake slide.

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10 hours ago, Jdub said:

Stretch, you may already know this, but save your non-twist off bottles, like SA. they are great if/when you start using glass bottles. just my 2 cents.

Thanks Jdub - I've got them cleaned, rinsed, and in the box as each one empties into my gullet! :) That was one of the reasons I'm breaking for all this new store-bought stuff. Bottles!

 

My wife said "You sure are drinking a lot more. Are you buying this just for the bottles?" And I said "Yeah, like when you were buying all that stuff we didn't need last week because 'it was on sale'". (Ok. Ok. I didn't say that. But it makes me feel good thinking I did)

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5 hours ago, StretchNM said:

Thanks Jdub - I've got them cleaned, rinsed, and in the box as each one empties into my gullet! :) That was one of the reasons I'm breaking for all this new store-bought stuff. Bottles!

 

My wife said "You sure are drinking a lot more. Are you buying this just for the bottles?" And I said "Yeah, like when you were buying all that stuff we didn't need last week because 'it was on sale'". (Ok. Ok. I didn't say that. But it makes me feel good thinking I did)

yeah, that wouldn't go over well in my house. LOL. a case of bottles will cost about as much as buying a 12 pack of something you will enjoy and you can reuse the bottles.

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