Jump to content
Mr.Beer Community
Sign in to follow this  
FedoraDave

Hops boil question

Recommended Posts

I tasted a second bottle of my all-DME Trilby Brown Ale last night. It's been in the bottle for about six weeks now, and it's improving all the time.

But I noticed more bitterness than I cared to have, and it made me wonder about the best way to remedy it in future batches.

I boiled 1/2 oz of Fuggle hops for 50 minutes, 1/2 oz of Fuggle for 20 minutes, and I added 1/2 oz of Fuggle after primary fermentation was done (about four days in).

So, if I want to reduce the bitterness just a bit, would you recommend reducing the amount of hops in the longer boil, or reducing the amount of time? Or both?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, maybe I'll try a 40-minute boil with 1/2 oz next time. I might use more caramel grain in the steep, too. 1/3 lb instead of 1/4 pound, to push that flavor up a little.

This is a good batch, though. I'm getting closer and closer to the flavor I want in a brown ale. And let's face it, brewing another batch in my quest isn't exactly a hardship, y'know? ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry for the threadjacking but -

Being of almost full Irish descent, (Dad was 100%, Mom was Scotch Irish) YankeeDag reminded me of a song I heard on many occasion at family get togethers and a couple Irish wakes.

When Irish eyes are smiling, sure tis like the morn in Spring,
In the lilt of Irish laughter, you can hear the Angels sing.
When Irish hearts are happy, all the world seems bright and gay.
And when Irish eyes are smiling.......sure they'll steal your heart awaaaaaaayyyyyyy.........sniff, sniff (wipes tear from eye)


:stout:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you nail down a good Smitkwick's recipe, be sure to post... I'd be interested in cribbing your notes on that one. I've been eyeing Austin Homebrew's kit, but haven't pulled the trigger.

Of course, Jamil's Irish Red recipe (which he described as "pretty damn close" to Smithwick's on the podcast) seems pretty darn simple...


6 Gallon Batch
Mash at 153

11.25 lbs English/British Pale Ale Malt (Crisp - Maris Otter)
6 oz crystal 40 (170 grams)
6 oz. Crystal 120 (170 grams)
6 oz. roasted barley 300 lovibond (170 grams)

Kent Golding 5% 60 minutes 1.25 oz 25 ibus
(or Fuggle or Williamette)

White Labs 004 (Irish Ale), or S-05 if using dry yeast

I can imagine doing this as an extract by exchanging the pale malt for a can of Mountmellick Light LME and cutting everything else down to size...

Hmmm... You got me thinking... "Smitticks" is an old friend of mine... I may have to pursue this after I harvest my Irish ale yeast...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm going to try the following:
Bitter: 60 min...first gold hops
flavor: @ 15...3/4 ea of frugal & kent
aroma: @ flame out 1/4 each of frugal & kent
using 6 lbs of DME
and for the shite grins and giggles, 1/2 lbs of carabell grains
now mind you, I'm twisted and off center. don't try this at home unless you like good beer. brew it at your own risk. I do. so there. Keep in mind the brits don't do "aroma" and the Irish love to piss them off. Deal with it. :stout:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alrighty then. today I was in a restaurant and had a couple glasses of very nice Smithwicks Ale.

I see this is about clones. How close are any?

I see Smithwicks listing their ale as 17 IBU, 3..8 %ABV, Hops Herkules and Goldings.

I want to make a clone starting with a Mr Beer HME.

Suggestions?

Maybe start with the CAL as it is relatively light and can be tweaked in different directions.
Would need hop boil to add IBUs, and Grain steep to add flavor and some ABV - I am thinking 2 oz Roasted Barley, 2 oz Carapils, + 2 oz pale 2 row for the ABV? and Irish ale yeast and maybe add some minerals - gypsum or bicarb 1 tsp - it does change the flavor a little.

Oh and hops boil to add 5 IBUs , maybe 10 minute boil of 0.5 oz Goldings or Goldings and Hallertauer mix to add some spiciness. than take the hops out.  Works out pretty close as adds to CAL in the Calculator. But how will it taste :-D

Suggestions?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Nickfixit said:

Alrighty then. today I was in a restaurant and had a couple glasses of very nice Smithwicks Ale.

I see this is about clones. How close are any?

I see Smithwicks listing their ale as 17 IBU, 3..8 %ABV, Hops Herkules and Goldings.

I want to make a clone starting with a Mr Beer HME.

Suggestions?

Maybe start with the CAL as it is relatively light and can be tweaked in different directions.
Would need hop boil to add IBUs, and Grain steep to add flavor and some ABV - I am thinking 2 oz Roasted Barley, 2 oz Carapils, + 2 oz pale 2 row for the ABV? and Irish ale yeast and maybe add some minerals - gypsum or bicarb 1 tsp - it does change the flavor a little.

Oh and hops boil to add 5 IBUs , maybe 10 minute boil of 0.5 oz Goldings or Goldings and Hallertauer mix to add some spiciness. than take the hops out.  Works out pretty close as adds to CAL in the Calculator. But how will it taste :-D

Suggestions?

 

 

Give me a moment...;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Nickfixit said:

Alrighty then. today I was in a restaurant and had a couple glasses of very nice Smithwicks Ale.

I see this is about clones. How close are any?

I see Smithwicks listing their ale as 17 IBU, 3..8 %ABV, Hops Herkules and Goldings.

I want to make a clone starting with a Mr Beer HME.

Suggestions?

Maybe start with the CAL as it is relatively light and can be tweaked in different directions.
Would need hop boil to add IBUs, and Grain steep to add flavor and some ABV - I am thinking 2 oz Roasted Barley, 2 oz Carapils, + 2 oz pale 2 row for the ABV? and Irish ale yeast and maybe add some minerals - gypsum or bicarb 1 tsp - it does change the flavor a little.

Oh and hops boil to add 5 IBUs , maybe 10 minute boil of 0.5 oz Goldings or Goldings and Hallertauer mix to add some spiciness. than take the hops out.  Works out pretty close as adds to CAL in the Calculator. But how will it taste :-D

Suggestions?

 

 

NickWicks Red Ale

 

Canadian Blonde HME

Malting Co. of Ireland Ale Malt, 0.5 lb. (or standard 2-row)

Flaked barley, 0.25 lb.

Weyermann CaraRed, 2 oz (?)

Karo Light Corn Syrup, half cup (?)

East Kent Goldings, 0.5 oz., 10 min.

 

From my experience, it is not easy to get to "red" in an extract brew using roasted barley so I'm not including it here.  Several of my "Red Ale" attempts have turned out in the standard Amber/Brown SRM range.  If SRM is not that critical you could go for it and use just a wee amount of roasted barley (<1 oz) rather than the CaraRed.  As for bittering/flavor hops, I think your half ounce of EKG for 10 min. would be perfect.  Karo Light Corn Syrup?  IDK, Google told me to do it.

 

Good luck! 🍻

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Bonsai & Brew said:

 

NickWicks Red Ale

 

Canadian Blonde HME

Malting Co. of Ireland Ale Malt, 0.5 lb. (or standard 2-row)

Flaked barley, 0.25 lb.

Weyermann CaraRed, 2 oz (?)

Karo Light Corn Syrup, half cup (?)

East Kent Goldings, 0.5 oz., 10 min.

 

From my experience, it is not easy to get to "red" in an extract brew using roasted barley so I'm not including it here.  Several of my "Red Ale" attempts have turned out in the standard Amber/Brown SRM range.  If SRM is not that critical you could go for it and use just a wee amount of roasted barley (<1 oz) rather than the CaraRed.  As for bittering/flavor hops, I think your half ounce of EKG for 10 min. would be perfect.  Karo Light Corn Syrup?  IDK, Google told me to do it.

 

Good luck! 🍻

Thanks! And thanks for naming it.

Also interesting, I thought the Roasted Barley was for flavor as well as color, but to be honest I did not think the beer I had today looked all that red.

I also saw a post someone said they used corn  syrup.

But that was not identified on the brewery description of the beer, they just said malts. "This, our original Red Ale, is a blend of mild hops, sweet malt and roasted barley."  That is why I included it and added the other grains to boost the use of extract in substitute for grain.

I was thinking of the Canadian Blonde also as a possibility. I am not sure of the hopping flavor difference between that and CAL.

I also saw recipes that used flaked and roasted barley.

Maybe I will make a couple variants like I did with the Belgian Wit clones last year.

I just ordered a Canadian Blonde with free shipping from Amazon. So I will try both next brew month.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Nickfixit said:

Thanks! And thanks for naming it.

Also interesting, I thought the Roasted Barley was for flavor as well as color, but to be honest I did not think the beer I had today looked all that red.

I also saw a post someone said they used corn  syrup.

But that was not identified on the brewery description of the beer, they just said malts. "This, our original Red Ale, is a blend of mild hops, sweet malt and roasted barley."  That is why I included it and added the other grains to boost the use of extract in substitute for grain.

I was thinking of the Canadian Blonde also as a possibility. I am not sure of the hopping flavor difference between that and CAL.

I also saw recipes that used flaked and roasted barley.

Maybe I will make a couple variants like I did with the Belgian Wit clones last year.

I just ordered a Canadian Blonde with free shipping from Amazon. So I will try both next brew month.

 

 

 

You are absolutely correct about the roasted barley.  Besides imparting color, it also delivers a hint of roastiness, yielding a lightly dry finish typical of the style (ref. Internet sources).  After going back through the BJCP guidelines (and the link below), it is interesting to note that the Irish Red Ale style can be somewhat broadly defined with some interpretations actually being closer to an International Amber Lager than an Ale.  As for Smithwicks, you are one-up on me in that you've actually had it, so trust your tasting and craft accordingly!

 

https://byo.com/article/irish-red-ale-style-profile/

 

PS -- CAL vs Canadian Blonde?  Without knowing the proprietary and highly-guarded grain bills that Coopers uses to produce these HMEs, we are left to deduce which would provide the better malt base for an Irish Red.  I've made my guess and will have to live with the consequences, haha.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Nickfixit said:

I find lots of recipes claiming to be clones, but very little feedback of side to side comparisons of the results.

And none using Mr B HMEs

 

There is a reason for that.

 

First, to clone a beer you need to use the grains they use (or come close), the hops they use and the schedule of hops they use.  And, as you noted based on your adding gypsum, the water they use.

 

Mr. Beer refills are made in Australia using their water profile (whatever that is), their grains (whatever those are), their hops and hops schedule...

 

In short, this isn't how to clone a beer.

 

You'd be much better off using LME or DME, grain steeps, and a hop boiling schedule.  I've made clones of Great Lakes' Edmund Fitzgerald Porter, Bell's Best Brown and Bell's Two Hearted, and Big Sky Brewing's Moosedrool,   All were made with LME, grain steeps, and hop boils.  Most of them people said "this tastes exactly the same".  Of note, I didn't modify my water for any of them.

 

I'd also point out that most of the recipes you will find are 5 gallons, so you'll need a pot that holds 3.5 gallons of water, and then following the normal Mr. Beer procedure (a gallon of cold water in the LBK, add wort, then top off).  The 3.5 gallons will boil down to closer to 2.5 gallons at the end of the hour.  Also, it will end up about 1/2 the cost of a Mr. Beer batch.

 

I'd suggest you start there.  A simple Google search for the name of a beer and the words "clone" and "extract" will usually yield many recipes.  Starting from a Mr. Beer refill is simply a waste of time.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, RickBeer said:

 

There is a reason for that.

 

First, to clone a beer you need to use the grains they use (or come close), the hops they use and the schedule of hops they use.  And, as you noted based on your adding gypsum, the water they use.

 

Mr. Beer refills are made in Australia using their water profile (whatever that is), their grains (whatever those are), their hops and hops schedule...

 

In short, this isn't how to clone a beer.

 

You'd be much better off using LME or DME, grain steeps, and a hop boiling schedule.  I've made clones of Great Lakes' Edmund Fitzgerald Porter, Bell's Best Brown and Bell's Two Hearted, and Big Sky Brewing's Moosedrool,   All were made with LME, grain steeps, and hop boils.  Most of them people said "this tastes exactly the same".  Of note, I didn't modify my water for any of them.

 

I'd suggest you start there.  A simple Google search for the name of a beer and the words "clone" and "extract" will usually yield many recipes.  Starting from a Mr. Beer refill is simply a waste of time.  

 

Though one could make the argument that brewing beer is never a waste of time. 🍻

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe this will help you...

 

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/215983/smithwicks-clone

or

SmIthWIckS IrISh ale
Smithwicks Brewery, Kilkenny, Ireland

IrISh reD ale
RECIPE FOR FIVE GALLONS
1 lb. brown cane sugar
½ lb. light crystal malt
½ lb. medium crystal malt
3 oz. roast barley
6½ lb. light malt extract syrup
1¾ oz. Goldings hops, 60 minutes before end of boil
½ oz. Goldings hops, 10 minutes before end of boil
Irish ale yeast
¾ cup corn sugar
Bring three gallons warm water to 160°F. Crush grains and steep in hot brewing water for 30 minutes. Remove grains and add extract, then bring to a boil. Boil 60 minutes, adding hops at specified intervals. Transfer to fermenter with enough cold water to make five gallons. Cool to 70°F, aerate, and add yeast. Ferment at 65-70°F for two weeks or until finished. Transfer. Dissolve corn sugar into finished beer, bottle, and store at room temperature for two or three weeks, then chill and enjoy.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, RickBeer said:

 

There is a reason for that.

 

First, to clone a beer you need to use the grains they use (or come close), the hops they use and the schedule of hops they use.  And, as you noted based on your adding gypsum, the water they use.

 

Mr. Beer refills are made in Australia using their water profile (whatever that is), their grains (whatever those are), their hops and hops schedule...

 

In short, this isn't how to clone a beer.

 

You'd be much better off using LME or DME, grain steeps, and a hop boiling schedule.  I've made clones of Great Lakes' Edmund Fitzgerald Porter, Bell's Best Brown and Bell's Two Hearted, and Big Sky Brewing's Moosedrool,   All were made with LME, grain steeps, and hop boils.  Most of them people said "this tastes exactly the same".  Of note, I didn't modify my water for any of them.

 

I'd also point out that most of the recipes you will find are 5 gallons, so you'll need a pot that holds 3.5 gallons of water, and then following the normal Mr. Beer procedure (a gallon of cold water in the LBK, add wort, then top off).  The 3.5 gallons will boil down to closer to 2.5 gallons at the end of the hour.  Also, it will end up about 1/2 the cost of a Mr. Beer batch.

 

I'd suggest you start there.  A simple Google search for the name of a beer and the words "clone" and "extract" will usually yield many recipes.  Starting from a Mr. Beer refill is simply a waste of time.  

Well,you may be right about  the low chances of success in cloning using Mr. B HMEs.  I agree it will be much more likely if one uses  similar grain and hop schedules. And I appreciate the 2 gal size brewing pointers. 

 

However, I have picked that as my challenge so I plan to test it and see.

The only one I got very close so far was the Sam Adams Boston Lager. I got one really good try at it. The latest try I was impatient and used some Vienna extract I had and that was a different result. I added way too much Vienna taste and of course it was too dark. 

But despite differences, the other attempts I made at other things, while different, have been quite drinkable.

So I will make a Smithwicks CAL version and a Can Blonde version and see in what way they are different from each other and from the real version and report back.

:-D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, C-Note 1959 said:

Maybe this will help you...

 

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/215983/smithwicks-clone

or

SmIthWIckS IrISh ale
Smithwicks Brewery, Kilkenny, Ireland

IrISh reD ale
RECIPE FOR FIVE GALLONS
1 lb. brown cane sugar
½ lb. light crystal malt
½ lb. medium crystal malt
3 oz. roast barley
6½ lb. light malt extract syrup
1¾ oz. Goldings hops, 60 minutes before end of boil
½ oz. Goldings hops, 10 minutes before end of boil
Irish ale yeast
¾ cup corn sugar
Bring three gallons warm water to 160°F. Crush grains and steep in hot brewing water for 30 minutes. Remove grains and add extract, then bring to a boil. Boil 60 minutes, adding hops at specified intervals. Transfer to fermenter with enough cold water to make five gallons. Cool to 70°F, aerate, and add yeast. Ferment at 65-70°F for two weeks or until finished. Transfer. Dissolve corn sugar into finished beer, bottle, and store at room temperature for two or three weeks, then chill and enjoy.

 

Thanks, that could be very drinkable but it will not be like Smithwicks as it is 5.8% vs 3.8% and 27.5 IBUs vs 17 IBUs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×