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yankeedag

Epic Fail

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ah, for my 2nd try at a all grain...down the drain.
fails the iodine test.
did a small batch for a 2 gallon (failed with a 5 gallon last time, so I made a good fail choice this time.)
2.5 (+flavor grains...small ounces) did a 45min at 156*, did a 10 min 170*, sparged with 170*....Dud.
so screw it, I saved the yeast for another batch I'll be using DME on.
Rationalization: I'm not set up for all grain. (Read: doesn't know what the *(&*(*^) he's doing.)
The Beer Nong is firmly stuck in Mediocrity. :blush:

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Luv me malt batches... LOL. All grain looks way past my level, or patience for that matter. Atleast you did not lose much. What is it we tell the newbies... patience grasshopper, patience.

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Sorry to hear that YD :( Waste not want not.
But you are a great brewer & I appreciate all the advice. :cheers:
AG is hard. Mr B is easy. That's the way she goes. 140-20110626.jpg

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Sorry to hear about your loss Yankeedag.

I'm drinking my Sierra Nevada Pale Ale Clone as I type this (first attempt at BIAB). It's not very clear, but it is delicious - even better than expected. But in general, it's not any better than my extract brews, me thinks. So I'll do more BIABs, but I won't necessarily race to my LHBS to buy some more grain.

So I think you should try it again in time, since I think the results of a successful all-grain recipe will please your palate. But since you are making excellent extract brews (and I know you are), then there is no hurry - whenever you get the itch to try it again. Bottom line? RDWHAHB.

Oh damn, I gotta go. Time for a refill.

Sierra_Nevada_Pale_Ale_Clone_lacing.JPG

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Mediocrity? MEDIOCRITY??!! I PROTEST!!

YD...We may not see eye to eye on bottling brew that has mold on it, but I can honestly say I appreciate all the advise you have given. I've taken your advise on several occasions when you gave it to other people.

So, if extract brewing is "mediocre" then I am more than pleased to wallow in mediocrity also.

I have had several people call my beer the "best they have ever had", and all I did was brew HME, LME, Patience & Love.

I also find my beer to be the best I've ever had.

All things being equal, without ever even trying one of your beers, but based on your expertise alone, I'm sure your beer is the stuff dream beers are made of.

I bow to your excellence...Mediocre is not in the same sentence as your name...

OK?? OK!!

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I was having a conversation with the one who gave me the formula for this last epic fail. He said something that just didn't seem right at the time, but rattled around in my upper beer holder for a while.
He said you can only truley know what conversion ration you have is to do it yourself. You don't know what you get when you use DME.
I thought about that. And I have to say "Bull shit". I'm sure the industry has it's standards and doesn't put out DME/LME in a higglypiggly manner. Otherwise, why in the Heck would/should we use DME/LME at all? I wrote a email to him and just said epic fail. I think I shall use DME and the extra grains I got for the formula, make it that way, lay a bottle on him, and see what is said.
I've wanted to do All grain just so I'd be prepaired regardless where I was at, and if, only if, I ever got to open a pub and wanted to save some coin. This theory that only All Grain is the best and only way to have full control just bites my Asteroid to the core.

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Fat Pete wrote:

...I bow to your excellence...

Yeah, me too 'dag. Especially after 2 or 3 of those Smithwicks Clones. When I get back from vacation, I'll be making a 5-gallon batch of it - heaven in a bottle. :chug:

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So let me get this straight...You drain-poured a batch because the starch conversion wasn't complete, as indicated by the iodine test? I've never done this test and my all grains have NEVER had a problem with conversion - even when I missed my mash temp by 10 degrees.

Conversion happens within a VERY wide range of temperatures....so my question is, what makes you think that you didn't get conversion?

Did you use Iodine and not the sanitizer-Idophor?
What did your results look like? (Example here)
Why are you dumping the batch instead of completing a boil and pitching yeast?
I've even seen uncracked grain produce fermentable sugars...but did you crack the grain?
What was the recipe exactly?

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Sorry it went wonkey on you. I'd join you on the extract side in any epic battle where people say AG is the only way to brew good beer. I used to do exclusivly AG, and now I do almost exclusivly extract. My beers now are just as good as any AG batch I've done. (they do cost more, but then time is a cost too, so I consider it a fair trade).

But just FYI, after reading what you tried, the only thing I can think of is that you simply needed a longer mash. It can take 60-90 minutes to get to the point where starch conversion is complete. So the best tidbit of advice I can offer for next time you try for a 45 minute mash is to do an iodine test at 45 minutes - before you start to mash out / sparge. If it fails, just keep it at your mash temp and let it sit for another 30 minutes, then test again, and even again if necessary - don't do your mashout / sparge until your sure it's done. Patience would have likely rewarded you. (heh, how often do you tell people that!).

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Colby wrote:

So let me get this straight...You drain-poured a batch because the starch conversion wasn't complete, as indicated by the iodine test? I've never done this test and my all grains have NEVER had a problem with conversion - even when I missed my mash temp by 10 degrees.

Conversion happens within a VERY wide range of temperatures....so my question is, what makes you think that you didn't get conversion?

Did you use Iodine and not the sanitizer-Idophor?
What did your results look like? (Example here)
Why are you dumping the batch instead of completing a boil and pitching yeast?
I've even seen uncracked grain produce fermentable sugars...but did you crack the grain?
What was the recipe exactly?


I used the idophor test... came out a shitty brownish hersy squirt color.
If it fails the test, why should I dump $8 bucks worth of yeast it a turd bowl?
I cracked the grains myself... that part was good.

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mashani wrote:

Sorry it went wonkey on you. I'd join you on the extract side in any epic battle where people say AG is the only way to brew good beer. I used to do exclusivly AG, and now I do almost exclusivly extract. My beers now are just as good as any AG batch I've done. (they do cost more, but then time is a cost too, so I consider it a fair trade).

But just FYI, after reading what you tried, the only thing I can think of is that you simply needed a longer mash. It can take 60-90 minutes to get to the point where starch conversion is complete. So the best tidbit of advice I can offer for next time you try for a 45 minute mash is to do an iodine test at 45 minutes - before you start to mash out / sparge. If it fails, just keep it at your mash temp and let it sit for another 30 minutes, then test again, and even again if necessary - don't do your mashout / sparge until your sure it's done. Patience would have likely rewarded you. (heh, how often do you tell people that!).

Although I do a 1 hour mash on all my brews, I disagree that the extra 15 minutes will change the results of an iodine test significantly....depending on the grain bill(i.e.- if there's enough 2 row to help convert the other grains). I've heard people try this test shortly after doughing in and getting a 'passing' result....which is demonstrated in the link I provide in my last post.

I'm curious to here the details and help if I can on this one :)

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sorry guys. I won't be any help on this one. I've gone rock head on this. I no longer have a desire to do all grain. I am sure its better than sex for some, but to me, it's like having a date with Bubba in the jail shower. It's just not the done thing for me. I'm not seeing an advantage waisting extra time for a maybe. For the few extra bits of coin it cost for an equivilant amount of DME for the job, 2row can paddle up stream.

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yankeedag wrote:

Colby wrote:

So let me get this straight...You drain-poured a batch because the starch conversion wasn't complete, as indicated by the iodine test? I've never done this test and my all grains have NEVER had a problem with conversion - even when I missed my mash temp by 10 degrees.

Conversion happens within a VERY wide range of temperatures....so my question is, what makes you think that you didn't get conversion?

Did you use Iodine and not the sanitizer-Idophor?
What did your results look like? (Example here)
Why are you dumping the batch instead of completing a boil and pitching yeast?
I've even seen uncracked grain produce fermentable sugars...but did you crack the grain?
What was the recipe exactly?


I used the idophor test... came out a shitty brownish hersy squirt color.
If it fails the test, why should I dump $8 bucks worth of yeast it a turd bowl?
I cracked the grains myself... that part was good.

Brown is good...black/purple is the color that indicates incomplete conversion(see link in 1st post). I'm betting my money that you made a fermentable wort if the grains were cracked and soaked in 155 degree water for 45 mins! Boil it, add some hops, cool and add yeast! Beer will be made!

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yankeedag wrote:

sorry guys. I won't be any help on this one. I've gone rock head on this. I no longer have a desire to do all grain. I am sure its better than sex for some, but to me, it's like having a date with Bubba in the jail shower. It's just not the done thing for me. I'm not seeing an advantage waisting extra time for a maybe. For the few extra bits of coin it cost for an equivilant amount of DME for the job, 2row can paddle up stream.

There is no maybe about it. Starches convert at a very wide temperature range, it's like 142-160...it sounds like you nailed it and made a very fermentable wort.

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I'm with Colby on this one a bit. I find it hard to believe that mashing anything at that temp for that time doesn't give you some type of conversion.

With your iodine test did you make sure your test solution was cool enough before testing? I've spent an extra 45-60 minutes on a mash when I first started with AG because I was testing the sample with iodine at too high a temp. I fixed that by making sure I spread the test solution thinner on a white dish, let it sit for 30-45 seconds and blow on it before testing it. Since than I've never had to wait longer than my normal mash times.

We shall chat about this at some point further. The Dag is too good to be stuck on the simplicities of AG brewing!

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D Rabbit wrote:

I'm with Colby on this one a bit. I find it hard to believe that mashing anything at that temp for that time doesn't give you some type of conversion.

With your iodine test did you make sure your test solution was cool enough before testing? I've spent an extra 45-60 minutes on a mash when I first started with AG because I was testing the sample with iodine at too high a temp. I fixed that by making sure I spread the test solution thinner on a white dish, let it sit for 30-45 seconds and blow on it before testing it. Since than I've never had to wait longer than my normal mash times.

We shall chat about this at some point further. The Dag is too good to be stuck on the simplicities of AG brewing!

I've never done the iodine test...like many other homebrewers, I just trust that it's done at 1 hour. If you're doing a standard 2 row based recipe, you shouldn't need to do any testing. Just boil it and your hydrometer will give you a warm fuzzy.

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D Rabbit wrote:

I like to test, it give ME the warm fuzzy feeling :)


Never have... is that smart? Stupid? Am I lucky? Could I make better beer if I did? Yeah, I dunno...

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There have been a few times that I've tested and it wasn't quite done (pilsner grains), let it sit for another 10 minutes and its ready. Sometimes, depending on your grains and how modified they are, conversion could take a little more time. Most of the time conversion can take place within the first 30 minutes, depending on which style grains you use. Different style grains can take different times to convert.

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D Rabbit wrote:

There have been a few times that I've tested and it wasn't quite done (pilsner grains), let it sit for another 10 minutes and its ready. Sometimes, depending on your grains and how modified they are, conversion could take a little more time. Most of the time conversion can take place within the first 30 minutes, depending on which style grains you use. Different style grains can take different times to convert.

Yes, this has been my experience too. That's what I was getting at Colby. A lot of my mashes were Munich with just a little bit of 2-row to help convert any other other stuff I added since Munich can just barely convert itself, and they did take a lot longer at times to convert then if I had used a bunch of 2-row.

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D Rabbit wrote:

There have been a few times that I've tested and it wasn't quite done (pilsner grains), let it sit for another 10 minutes and its ready. Sometimes, depending on your grains and how modified they are, conversion could take a little more time. Most of the time conversion can take place within the first 30 minutes, depending on which style grains you use. Different style grains can take different times to convert.

That's part of the reason I asked for the grain bill...so we could see if 45 minutes was adequate :)

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Sorry for your loss, Dag. Much like Colby, I've never done the test and have always gotten beer. I always just stick to the 60 minute mash for simplicity. All but one have been within the margin of error for OG. The one that wasn't was because my mash temp was too high, but even with that I got a tasty beer (though lower gravity than expected). I'd have to guess, based on what you've listed thus far, that you had a fermentable wort, but I'm sure you had your reasons to dump and, with me not being there and not knowing the complete story, I won't question your reasoning. I only say all of this to say that I hope this experience doesn't dissuade you from trying again if the mood strikes you. Or, if the mood never strikes you, you of course know that you can make good beer by other processes. Regardless, RDWHAHB.

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Guest System Admin

Never Say Never.

MacArthur did return.


G

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yankeedag wrote:

ah, for my 2nd try at a all grain...down the drain.
fails the iodine test.
did a small batch for a 2 gallon (failed with a 5 gallon last time, so I made a good fail choice this time.)
2.5 (+flavor grains...small ounces) did a 45min at 156*, did a 10 min 170*, sparged with 170*....Dud.
so screw it, I saved the yeast for another batch I'll be using DME on.
Rationalization: I'm not set up for all grain. (Read: doesn't know what the *(&*(*^) he's doing.)
The Beer Nong is firmly stuck in Mediocrity. :blush:

yankeedag sorry to hear about your misfortune with all grain brewing because of the iodine test. A lot of brewers try all grain only to go back to extract brewing. Sometimes we just have to persevere until we work through the new unknowns that we face when doing all grain.

For what it's worth, I never did an iodine test I just lauter a quart or so of wort then pour a hydrometer sample and hope it reads between 1.100 and 1.085 at 70F

I then sparge with 168F water until I collect my target volume. Then I take another hydrometer reading and hope it's above 1.015.
And I drink both hydrometer samples to test for sweetness..I hope this helps.

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I'm sorry to hear you dumped it YDag. Sounds to me like you had wort. Iodine shouldn't change color without presence of starch (like D Rabbit said, cool it on a saucer first), so brown is wht you are supposed to see. Did you taste it? If it was sweet, you aborted a beautiful bouncing baby beer. :(

The only possible explanation I could see if it was NOT sweet, is that your thermometer reads to low and you denatured the amylolytic enzymes.

Taste everything. That's how they did it in the old days. :drinking:

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nope. didn't taste it. maybe I should have. I did the iodine test more than once. even had one test just go bloody clear on me. I'm going to actually have to walk thru the process at least once with someone to nail this one down. However, I am well set up to do Extract batches, and will just stay with that for the time being.

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As to the iodine, you mentioned you used iodophor. From what I've read, you should use tincture of iodine (available at any drugstore). The form of the iodine may be what is causing your problems with the conversion test. Isn't iodophor clear to begin with? Tincture of iodine is dark brown and will turn blue/black/purple with the presence of starch, and remain the same color brown when the starch is converted.

I'm not absolutely certain about the different forms of iodine, so take that for what it's worth. But I do think it's something to explore.

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yankeedag wrote:

... I am well set up to do Extract batches, and will just stay with that for the time being.

Not exactly the response I expected to see from the guy labeled as the "beer nong"...

Imagine if all the beginner brewers that you tried to assist along the way just said "well, I can buy beer at the store, so I'll just stay with that for the time being"...

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Colby wrote:

yankeedag wrote:

... I am well set up to do Extract batches, and will just stay with that for the time being.

Not exactly the response I expected to see from the guy labeled as the "beer nong"...

Imagine if all the beginner brewers that you tried to assist along the way just said "well, I can buy beer at the store, so I'll just stay with that for the time being"...

Its all good though. Everyone stumbles at something at some point in their life. Even geniuses have left their failed attempt stamps on the world. The best thing about it is that you can try again when ready and you will be better informed and prepared for the next attempt. And when the day of success dawns, it will be ever so TRIUMPHANT!

And tasty!

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yankeedag wrote:

my iodophor is redish in the container...

You have to use Iodine. Not Iodophor.

Iodophor has phosphoric acid in it.

That is probably your problem.

G

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That's what my beer dude told me to use to test it.
It will be a bit before I step in the all grain arena again. I'm pondering what I might have done wrong.

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so a buddy told me i should use grain insteed of syrup. said that my beer would be better so i bought grains at the home brew store here. Now I'm reading here that the guy with hte most posts says it dont work. does it not work? i know you wrote the guideline so i guess youre the most experienced guy here and you say it dont work then i think my buddy is telling me wrong. now i'm confused and don't know what do do? help?

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PatBattle wrote:

so a buddy told me i should use grain insteed of syrup. said that my beer would be better so i bought grains at the home brew store here. Now I'm reading here that the guy with hte most posts says it dont work. does it not work? i know you wrote the guideline so i guess youre the most experienced guy here and you say it dont work then i think my buddy is telling me wrong. now i'm confused and don't know what do do? help?

Pat,

First of all - Relax, don't worry, have a home brew.

Second, they are not saying that all grain brewing doesn't work. Yankee was just expressing that he had a bad experience on 2 occasions.

People have been brewing beer with those same grains you have for thousands and thousands of years. Clearly, it works.

Try the grain method and try your syrup/extract method. Both make good beer. Just see which you like and run with it.

Extract/syrup saves time and effort, but has less customization possible and costs a bit more.

All grain brewing is the classic method and has infinite possibilities and combinations, but it takes a bit of work and practice and some more equipment.

Both methods have their pros and cons or there wouldn't be so much debate about them.

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yankeedag wrote:

That's what my beer dude told me to use to test it.
It will be a bit before I step in the all grain arena again. I'm pondering what I might have done wrong.

Hi Dag...

From what I'm reading, you might have completed the conversion...

I don't know if these other forum threads will help but I read them and offer them up for your reading pleasure...

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/using-iodophor-test-conversion-117209/

http://216-243-162-89.static.iphouse.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=59908&sid=5a1558e3d8cc4c06be79160aabde8fef

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/iodophor-starch-conversion-test-5132/

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/starch-test-16791/

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PatBattle wrote:

so a buddy told me i should use grain insteed of syrup. said that my beer would be better so i bought grains at the home brew store here. Now I'm reading here that the guy with hte most posts says it dont work. does it not work? i know you wrote the guideline so i guess youre the most experienced guy here and you say it dont work then i think my buddy is telling me wrong. now i'm confused and don't know what do do? help?

Give it a go. I just said I couldn't get it to work. There is the possiblility I did it right, but wound up tossing good wort due to my lack of experience/guidence in this area.

I keep getting told "grain" is better all the time by the All Grain guys. They haven't provided a bottle of the "better" beer to me yet. But then, I was told BMW's are "The Car" while in Germany, to me they were just another High Maint POS like everything else.
Give the Grains a go. It might work for you. All I'm saying is, It hasn't for me yet. Heavy on the Yet bit. :blush: I'll wind up playing with it again, maybe in a month or two.

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BigPapaG wrote:

yankeedag wrote:

That's what my beer dude told me to use to test it.
It will be a bit before I step in the all grain arena again. I'm pondering what I might have done wrong.

Hi Dag...

From what I'm reading, you might have completed the conversion...

I don't know if these other forum threads will help but I read them and offer them up for your reading pleasure...

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/using-iodophor-test-conversion-117209/

http://216-243-162-89.static.iphouse.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=59908&sid=5a1558e3d8cc4c06be79160aabde8fef

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/iodophor-starch-conversion-test-5132/

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/starch-test-16791/

well, from what I read from those posts, my epic fail wasn't. So I guess I donated a sacrifice to the beer gawds of the drain and leperchauns of the underhouse. :huh:

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PatBattle wrote:

so a buddy told me i should use grain insteed of syrup. said that my beer would be better so i bought grains at the home brew store here. Now I'm reading here that the guy with hte most posts says it dont work. does it not work? i know you wrote the guideline so i guess youre the most experienced guy here and you say it dont work then i think my buddy is telling me wrong. now i'm confused and don't know what do do? help?


LOL.. I see where that could be confusing... but just because he posts more, doesn't mean he has the most experience in all realms of home brewing (no offense Dag, just pointing out that posts do not equal total experience).

For the record, grains is what I use. It's all I have used for well over a year now. It works great, if you do it correctly and from the sounds of it YD just might have, but didn't realize it.

If you are comfortable giving AG a try, do it, it's awesome :)

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kedogn wrote:

PatBattle wrote:

so a buddy told me i should use grain insteed of syrup. said that my beer would be better so i bought grains at the home brew store here. Now I'm reading here that the guy with hte most posts says it dont work. does it not work? i know you wrote the guideline so i guess youre the most experienced guy here and you say it dont work then i think my buddy is telling me wrong. now i'm confused and don't know what do do? help?


LOL.. I see where that could be confusing... but just because he posts more, doesn't mean he has the most experience in all realms of home brewing (no offense Dag, just pointing out that posts do not equal total experience).

For the record, grains is what I use. It's all I have used for well over a year now. It works great, if you do it correctly and from the sounds of it YD just might have, but didn't realize it.

If you are comfortable giving AG a try, do it, it's awesome :)

You are most correct. I've just been here longer, never said I was the know it all. I just never had cause to do all grain. I just want to give it a go.

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yankeedag wrote:

You are most correct. I've just been here longer, never said I was the know it all. I just never had cause to do all grain. I just want to give it a go.


Nah, no one said you were the "know it all", but I can tell anyone that I learned a lot about brewing (steeping grains, hop additions, using DME...) from your helpful posts (be that reading what you have explained to others or the way you answered my questions). AG, as of now, just isn't your bag. Hopefully you will try it again soon though :)

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I'll have to do an all grain again. This will keep chewing on my Asteroid until I manage to do it. I just get so dagburned flustered at times. I say I won't do it, but, I will.

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yankeedag wrote:

I'll have to do an all grain again....I say I won't do it, but, I will.

I never had any doubt. ;)

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yankeedag wrote:

I'll have to do an all grain again. This will keep chewing on my Asteroid until I manage to do it. I just get so dagburned flustered at times. I say I won't do it, but, I will.

Yep. Sounds just like the guy who did his first DME and boiled it all over the wifes kitchen. Just got to keep trying. I'm sure you'll get it.

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I virtually guarantee that if you had boiled that mash juice with some hops and added yeast, you'ld have a beer a brewin'. Some people will even tell you not to bother with iodine tests because the the grains from the maltsters nowadays are so highly modified that there is no chance of it not converting if it's within ten degrees of 150.

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yankeedag wrote:

I'll have to do an all grain again. This will keep chewing on my Asteroid until I manage to do it. I just get so dagburned flustered at times. I say I won't do it, but, I will.

We all get fed up or annoyed at certain things and we're definitely entitled to a period of time in which to bitch and moan and hate that activity. But you will find your head and keep calm and approach the subject again and find yourself much more adept and in tune.

Sh*t happens. Relax, Don't worry, Have a home brew.

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I've done one BIAB, and that was a SMaSH recipe I concocted myself, which probably wasn't the best idea for a first time. It was an okay brew, I thought. Just okay, so I can't say if it was the technique, the recipe, or the brewer. Or maybe a combination of all three, with covert activity from the Taliban thrown in for good measure.

Overall, though, I just don't have the time to BIAB for every batch. I'll try it again, for sure, just for the experience. Only I'll use a recipe from a book, just to see if the level of quality for the finished product is noticably higher than extract brewing.

Even if it is, that doesn't mean I'll have the time to go AG any more than I do now.

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Am I the only one who noticed his mash temp was too high? 155 should be the absolute max for mashing. And even that is going to leave you with a very sweet beer. my mashes have been at 150 to 152. Then I batch sparge at 170.

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oly wrote:

I virtually guarantee that if you had boiled that mash juice with some hops and added yeast, you'ld have a beer a brewin'. Some people will even tell you not to bother with iodine tests because the the grains from the maltsters nowadays are so highly modified that there is no chance of it not converting if it's within ten degrees of 150.

+1 on not doing the iodine test. If anything take and SG reading. Personally I just go by the OG reading after my boil.

My first AG was supposed to be a red ale. But it came out really dark. It doesn't look or taste anything like a red ale. It does look and taste like an octoberfest. It isn't what I was targeting but it sure is some dang good beer.

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Gymrat wrote:

Am I the only one who noticed his mash temp was too high? 155 should be the absolute max for mashing. And even that is going to leave you with a very sweet beer. my mashes have been at 150 to 152. Then I batch sparge at 170.

Most things I have read have mash temps going as high as 158. IIRC, 155-158 is the mash temp range for a "full bodied beer."

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VTGroff wrote:

Gymrat wrote:

Am I the only one who noticed his mash temp was too high? 155 should be the absolute max for mashing. And even that is going to leave you with a very sweet beer. my mashes have been at 150 to 152. Then I batch sparge at 170.

Most things I have read have mash temps going as high as 158. IIRC, 155-158 is the mash temp range for a "full bodied beer."

I mash all the time around 158 degrees. You do that for full body beers... aka, stouts, porters or anything you want to chew for a body consistency.

Mash temps will vary a lot. You can mash anywhere from 160 down to 140ish with decent results.

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VTGroff wrote:

Gymrat wrote:

Am I the only one who noticed his mash temp was too high? 155 should be the absolute max for mashing. And even that is going to leave you with a very sweet beer. my mashes have been at 150 to 152. Then I batch sparge at 170.

Most things I have read have mash temps going as high as 158. IIRC, 155-158 is the mash temp range for a "full bodied beer."

I agree...and that's one of the advantages of mashing. You also have to consider when the temperature was taken and if it had time to equalize.

From a homebrew wiki:

"Lower temperature conversion - around 148-152 F will take longer but will produce a more complete conversion of complex starches to sugars resulting in more fermentation and a clean, lighter tasting beer. A high temperature conversion of 155-158 F (68.5-70 C) will result in less starch conversion leaving a beer with more unfermentable dextrines. This will create a beer with a full body and flavor. Middle mash temperatures (153-156 F / 67.69 C) will result in medium bodied beers."

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Sham Addams wrote:

The only real Epic Fail is the Epic Failure to try. B)

Just curious and I know you were trying to be poetic here but did you mean the only epic failure would be to NOT try?

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D Rabbit wrote:

Sham Addams wrote:

The only real Epic Fail is the Epic Failure to try. B)

Just curious and I know you were trying to be poetic here but did you mean the only epic failure would be to NOT try?

No, he meant the only epic failure would be NOT to try.

Let's not split our infinitives, here; they wind up all over the place, and I just shampooed the carpet.

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D Rabbit wrote:

Sham Addams wrote:

The only real Epic Fail is the Epic Failure to try. B)

Just curious and I know you were trying to be poetic here but did you mean the only epic failure would be to NOT try?

Yes, sorry I Neil Armstronged there.

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I swear going AG is just like starting from the beginning again on my learning curve.

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Gymrat wrote:

Now I wish I would have mashed my red ale at 155 Sunday.

The first time I did my AG I thought the temps were opposite. So I mashed my porter recipe at 152 instead of 158. It was OK, according my friend who absolutely loves my Kings Porter but didn't have the body as normal. After more research I realized I was an idiot. Last time I mashed it, A WORLD OF DIFFERENCE AT 158.

Look at the bright size, you have beer..... and now you get to brew it again and try a new mash temp!

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Sham Addams wrote:

D Rabbit wrote:

Sham Addams wrote:

The only real Epic Fail is the Epic Failure to try. B)

Just curious and I know you were trying to be poetic here but did you mean the only epic failure would be to NOT try?

Yes, sorry I Neil Armstronged there.

In Armstrong's defense, I read recently that they cleaned up the transmission and he didn't really flub the line (and he never wished Mr Gorsky luck, either).

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