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jeff7181

Not exactly a new member, but I'm aggravated...

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A while back I had to get a new credit card because I had passed my credit card information over the phone to change the billing info on an account (not Mr. Beer) and apparently the phone operator wrote down my credit card info and attempted to make purchases with it.

So, my next Brew Club ordered was voided because the credit card info on file was no longer valid. I'm unable to find a section on the web site to update my payment info for Brew Club orders. I'm told by the "live chat" operator that it's not possible to update that information online.

This brings up a couple issues...

I will not give my credit card information over the phone, so my Brew Club membership is effectively canceled.

Just how is my credit card information stored at Mr. Beer if I cannot update it online? I wonder if it's stored in such a way that complies with Payment Card Industry standards. And I wonder how the Payment Card Industry would feel about Mr. Beer requiring that I update this information over the phone considering it was entered online to begin with.

Maybe I need to rethink where I purchase my brewing supplies...

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I don't have an answer to your questions, but I think this is one reason why Mr Beer should accept PayPal. There, I said it again. ;)

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The problem with this policy is that my credit card info was entered online on a secure site by myself. This is what I consented to when I became a Mr. Beer customer. If payment information had to be given over the phone from the start, I would not be a Mr. Beer customer.

To change the credit card information they have stored (now we're getting into some heavy PCI compliance rules with full credit card numbers and CVV's being stored along with personally identifiable information) I have to give my new information to John Doe over the phone. This means John Doe has access to my (and every other Mr. Beer customer's) stored credit card information. This would be a red flag during any PCI data security audit.

Nevermind the fact that John Doe may jot down my credit card number and name and expiration date and CVV.

Now, John Doe may be a stand up guy and totally trustworthy. However, John Doe may be a little dumb and fall victim to a social engineering attack to gain access to his account that gives him access to all of Mr. Beer's customer information. How many John Doe's does Mr. Beer have that are capable of accessing/updating this information?

Call me paranoid, but it's this type of business practice that lends to news reports like this one: http://www.dailytech.com/Anonymous+Hack+on+Stratfor+Produces+Over+50000+Credit+Card+Numbers/article23613.htm

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I could be wrong on this, so take it for what it's worth. If you simply place a new order with Mr Beer, can't you then change the credit card info during the order? Seems to me this is how I did it, when issued a new card from my financial institution. But like I say, I'm not completely sure. And I'm not a Brew Club member, so it may work differently.

Edit: To clarify, I am referring to an order via internet.

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When placing a new order, yes. Brew Club orders are different because your credit card number is stored so future shipments can be automated.

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How about cancelling your Brew Club membership, and then signing up again with the new card info?

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I also thought, maybe I'll just create a new account and become a new Brew Club member and get a second set of free utensils. Then I got to thinking, do I really want to spend money with a company that thinks this is the proper way to handle customer credit card data and PII?

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jeff7181 wrote:

When placing a new order, yes. Brew Club orders are different because your credit card number is stored so future shipments can be automated.

Ah So! Well, maybe one of our esteemed Brew Club members will have an idea. Good luck Jeff. I feel your pain, brother. I HATE credit cards.

Edit: Wow! That didn't take long.

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packerduf wrote:

jeff7181 wrote:

When placing a new order, yes. Brew Club orders are different because your credit card number is stored so future shipments can be automated.

Ah So! Well, maybe one of our esteemed Brew Club members will have an idea. Good luck Jeff. I feel your pain, brother. I HATE credit cards.

Edit: Wow! That didn't take long.

I love credit cards. What I don't like is companies that handle my credit card information with such disregard for information security.

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I've been with mr beer for over 4 years, and I've changed credit cards. I gave them the new info over the phone and have suffered no ill effects from it. Just because you delt with with a tard working for another company, does not mean you'll suffer the same with Mr. Beer. Howsomever, it's your data, treat it as you will.

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yankeedag wrote:

I've been with mr beer for over 4 years, and I've changed credit cards. I gave them the new info over the phone and have suffered no ill effects from it. Just because you delt with with a tard working for another company, does not mean you'll suffer the same with Mr. Beer. Howsomever, it's your data, treat it as you will.

No, but the more often my information is passed around in an insecure manner, the more likely it is to be abused again.

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jeff7181 wrote:

yankeedag wrote:

I've been with mr beer for over 4 years, and I've changed credit cards. I gave them the new info over the phone and have suffered no ill effects from it. Just because you delt with with a tard working for another company, does not mean you'll suffer the same with Mr. Beer. Howsomever, it's your data, treat it as you will.

No, but the more often my information is passed around in an insecure manner, the more likely it is to be abused again.

Maybe call, and ask for Peter or Diane. They are both well known, and extremely trustworthy IMO. At least it might give you peace of mind, that you are not passing it on to part-time holiday help.

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I didn't read all the posts in detail. But to change credit card information I believe you have to call MB.

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ive never calld Mr Beer to change my credit card info. i just log in on the Main Mr Beer page where it says ACCOUNT LOGIN. sign in and go to my accout you should be able to change credit card info there. i did no problem

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Buy some $20.00, $50.00 $100.00 Walmart gift cards, Depending on your order size, If they get gleaned after payment is posted, You wont loose as much...

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Ok...

I can enter payment information online to join the Brew Club.
I can't change this payment information online.
I can enter different payment info every time for regular orders.
I place an order with new payment information and receive it, no problem.
I figure, now they have this payment information on file and schedule my next beer club order.
Failed authorization because they're using the old invalid payment information.
I place another non-brew club order with my new payment information.
They email me saying I need to provide updated payment information for my brew club membership order to ship.
I email them back and tell them until they update the website and provide a method for me to change my payment information for beer club orders, they can consider that order and my membership canceled.
My latest non-beer club order arrives.
A couple days later my beer club order arrives.
They apparently have FINALLY updated my payment information for brew club orders and shipped my order - the one I told them they can cancel until they provide a method for me to update my payment information online.

Holy hell these people working at Mr. Beer are stupid.

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jeff7181 wrote:

Ok...

I can enter payment information online to join the Brew Club.
I can't change this payment information online.
I can enter different payment info every time for regular orders.
I place an order with new payment information and receive it, no problem.
I figure, now they have this payment information on file and schedule my next beer club order.
Failed authorization because they're using the old invalid payment information.
I place another non-brew club order with my new payment information.
They email me saying I need to provide updated payment information for my brew club membership order to ship.
I email them back and tell them until they update the website and provide a method for me to change my payment information for beer club orders, they can consider that order and my membership canceled.
My latest non-beer club order arrives.
A couple days later my beer club order arrives.
They apparently have FINALLY updated my payment information for brew club orders and shipped my order - the one I told them they can cancel until they provide a method for me to update my payment information online.

Holy hell these people working at Mr. Beer are stupid.

OR.......

They are smart enough to change your card info for you by using the information you provided for the non beer club order.

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I told them to cancel the order and my membership until they update their website because I had placed a non-club order to get the items I wanted.

The website has not been updated.

They fulfilled my order anyway and I have multiple items now.

An email saying "We've used your information you provided for non-club orders to update your payment information for club orders so we will now ship your club order." would have been nice. You don't just charge someone's credit card and fulfill their order after they've told you to cancel it.

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D Rabbit wrote:

jeff7181 wrote:

Ok...

I can enter payment information online to join the Brew Club.
I can't change this payment information online.
I can enter different payment info every time for regular orders.
I place an order with new payment information and receive it, no problem.
I figure, now they have this payment information on file and schedule my next beer club order.
Failed authorization because they're using the old invalid payment information.
I place another non-brew club order with my new payment information.
They email me saying I need to provide updated payment information for my brew club membership order to ship.
I email them back and tell them until they update the website and provide a method for me to change my payment information for beer club orders, they can consider that order and my membership canceled.
My latest non-beer club order arrives.
A couple days later my beer club order arrives.
They apparently have FINALLY updated my payment information for brew club orders and shipped my order - the one I told them they can cancel until they provide a method for me to update my payment information online.

Holy hell these people working at Mr. Beer are stupid.

OR.......

They are smart enough to change your card info for you by using the information you provided for the non beer club order.

OR (maybe and)

They're a small company concentrating on their core business of making beer kits. They likely don't have a dedicated web developer, so any site changes are difficult for them to get done. It's cheaper and easier for them to handle updating the brew club info manually than to get a consultant to make the modifications needed to handle that online.

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jeff7181 wrote:

I told them to cancel the order and my membership until they update their website

I dont want you to feel like your being ganged up on but when i first read this, I took it as you wanted the website updated so you can purchase brew club orders, not to have the physical apperance of the website changed.

If thats how they understood it too, I understand why it would be shipped

*update brew club account with info provided via the web - check!
*website now reflects current payment info - check!
*ship your order once account is updated - check!

Maybe a work around for ustomers in your shoes would be to instruct them to place a non-brew club order with new payment details and upon receipt, they can transfer data to brew club orders.

It may sound like it should be a simple fix but sometimes systems dont easily speak to one another thus a workaround would be considered acceptable, especially when they probably dont occur that often.

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mnstarzz13 wrote:

jeff7181 wrote:

I told them to cancel the order and my membership until they update their website

I dont want you to feel like your being ganged up on but when i first read this, I took it as you wanted the website updated so you can purchase brew club orders, not to have the physical apperance of the website changed.

If thats how they understood it too, I understand why it would be shipped

*update brew club account with info provided via the web - check! uncheck - this has not happened
*website now reflects current payment info - check!
*ship your order once account is updated - check! uncheck - I told them to cancel the order until the site is updated so that I can update my payment information

Maybe a work around for ustomers in your shoes would be to instruct them to place a non-brew club order with new payment details and upon receipt, they can transfer data to brew club orders.

This is what I did - it did not automatically update for brew club orders and when they did update it, they didn't tell me and they shipped an order they told me would be canceled unless I provided alternative payment info.

It may sound like it should be a simple fix but sometimes systems dont easily speak to one another thus a workaround would be considered acceptable, especially when they probably dont occur that often.

I'm intimately familiar with technology - I'm a data center administrator. I know what's required to perform such an update which is why I intended to cancel my brew club membership and wait until they get a real online ordering system in place.

Basically what this boils down to is an antiquated ordering system and poor customer service. They have plans to fix the ordering system, but what about customer service? How about COMMUNICATING to me that you're going to manually retrieve the payment information I entered for non-brew club orders and enter it into whatever database they're using for brew club orders rather than just doing it, charging my card and shipping me product that I've already placed a new order for.

Not doing so is poor customer service.

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jeff7181 wrote:

I told them to cancel the order and my membership until they update their website

jeff7181 wrote:

I told them to cancel the order until the site is updated so that I can update my payment information


Clearly there is miscommunication. i just hope you get it figured out so you can make more beer.

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jeff7181 wrote:


I'm intimately familiar with technology - I'm a data center administrator. I know what's required to perform such an update which is why I intended to cancel my brew club membership and wait until they get a real online ordering system in place.

Basically what this boils down to is an antiquated ordering system and poor customer service. They have plans to fix the ordering system, but what about customer service? How about COMMUNICATING to me that you're going to manually retrieve the payment information I entered for non-brew club orders and enter it into whatever database they're using for brew club orders rather than just doing it, charging my card and shipping me product that I've already placed a new order for.

Not doing so is poor customer service.

Not to be harsh, but everybody thinks they can solve somebody else's problems because "I studied this in school", or "I do X for a living".

You're obviously pissed off and not happy.
Send it all back, cancel your account and move on.

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Kealia wrote:

jeff7181 wrote:


I'm intimately familiar with technology - I'm a data center administrator. I know what's required to perform such an update which is why I intended to cancel my brew club membership and wait until they get a real online ordering system in place.

Basically what this boils down to is an antiquated ordering system and poor customer service. They have plans to fix the ordering system, but what about customer service? How about COMMUNICATING to me that you're going to manually retrieve the payment information I entered for non-brew club orders and enter it into whatever database they're using for brew club orders rather than just doing it, charging my card and shipping me product that I've already placed a new order for.

Not doing so is poor customer service.

Not to be harsh, but everybody thinks they can solve somebody else's problems because "I studied this in school", or "I do X for a living".

You're obviously pissed off and not happy.
Send it all back, cancel your account and move on.

Agreed. Exercise your right to:

"rethink where I purchase my brewing supplies..."

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Amazon has a buy 3 get 4 deal, 3 pack kits included along with very reasonable shipping fees (free saver shipping).

MoreBeer.com has extremely good pricing and free shipping for most orders over $59.

Cabela's has, at least for now, The Beer Machine refills for extremely cheap since they are no longer carrying that product. ~$18 shipped for three 2.5# hopped dme packs is a pretty good deal...

And of course there is always going to be eBay.

So yes, give your business to those who you feel deserve it.

EDIT: Not to be harsh to those above... but retail businesses only survive when they have paying customers. The old adage of the "customer is always right" applies here because there are many places to spend money for beer supplies...

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They had an immediate fix, give them your new info over the phone. They are not the only company that does this, they are not wrong in asking for this. You have prior experience that made you not want to do this, which is fine. But what you are getting bent out of shape over is pretty small and seems to be rooted at the fact they had to get your new info over the phone. And I'm sure they would make it right and let you return everything if you explained what happened.

Every day people give thier card to a waitress to take to the back and swipe, wonder how many people have a chance to write your stuff down then.

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VanceFox wrote:


EDIT: Not to be harsh to those above... but retail businesses only survive when they have paying customers. The old adage of the "customer is always right" applies here because there are many places to spend money for beer supplies...

I disagree. Yes, they only survive with paying customers. No, the customer is not always right. I personally think that is a dumb saying, some people are just a-holes that need to be told "no" sometimes. IMO.

Sending the order when he said to cancel it, not really cool. But depending on his exact wording and demeanor he may have confused and/or intimidated the rep so they though that getting the product to him would make him happy. Just guessing, giving the rep the benefit of the doubt. We only have one side of the story.

As for the updating of credit cards, I don't really like the phone in thing either. Not that I think they will mishandle my info, I just don't like calling someone for something I think I should be able to handle on the web (it's the 21st Century for crying out loud). But even if they decide they want to change that, it will probably take some time to implement.

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I've had nothing but pleasant experiences with the MB staff, via phone and live chat. It is what it is and its your choice on how you deal with your purchasing of products. I have no issue with how they handle this information as most Visa and MC holders are protected by fraud.

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VanceFox wrote:


EDIT: Not to be harsh to those above... but retail businesses only survive when they have paying customers. The old adage of the "customer is always right" applies here because there are many places to spend money for beer supplies...

I disagree 100%. As someone else stated the customer is not always right. I don't buy into that as either a professional or a customer.

What I see is that the problem was solved - just not the way that the OP wanted it solved. In the end, they have his CC# and he has his products. Was it smooth to get there? It doesn't sound like it, but that happens.

Still not happy? Return the product and use some of the links to buy elsewhere. I've had nothing but OUTSTANDING service from MrB - they've gone over and above more than once for me and that buys loyalty from me.
Do I think they do EVERYTHING right? No.

Do I think they work hard to MAKE everything right? Yep.

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I had a job interview several years ago where one question he asked me was "Is the Customer always right?" I was a little stuck at first but came back by telling him some blown up story I thought he would like to hear and that backfired on me. He looked at me and said, "Simply put, the customer is not always right. They like to think they are but they aren't. With that being said we try out best to accommodate whatever they need or want in order to make them happy, within reason." Probably the most enlightening thing I had ever heard in my short interviewing career to that point. It has stuck with me even in my retail career and has helped my decision making quite a bit.

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D Rabbit wrote:

I had a job interview several years ago where one question he asked me was "Is the Customer always right?" I was a little stuck at first but came back by telling him some blown up story I thought he would like to hear and that backfired on me. He looked at me and said, "Simply put, the customer is not always right. They like to think they are but they aren't. With that being said we try out best to accommodate whatever they need or want in order to make them happy, within reason." Probably the most enlightening thing I had ever heard in my short interviewing career to that point. It has stuck with me even in my retail career and has helped my decision making quite a bit.


Company policies seem to be the customer is wrong except when we're publicly asked... Then the customer is right.

I give my business and hard earned money to businesses that I feel treat me as a customer, not a person there to give them money. I haven't had any dealings with MB that have been bad. I purchased a large order and received it on time.

But... my local shop treats me like I'm the most important person ever to walk in that store. I buy a lot from them even though some things are pricier simply because I feel they think "I'm always right".

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VanceFox wrote:

D Rabbit wrote:

I had a job interview several years ago where one question he asked me was "Is the Customer always right?" I was a little stuck at first but came back by telling him some blown up story I thought he would like to hear and that backfired on me. He looked at me and said, "Simply put, the customer is not always right. They like to think they are but they aren't. With that being said we try out best to accommodate whatever they need or want in order to make them happy, within reason." Probably the most enlightening thing I had ever heard in my short interviewing career to that point. It has stuck with me even in my retail career and has helped my decision making quite a bit.


Company policies seem to be the customer is wrong except when we're publicly asked... Then the customer is right.

I give my business and hard earned money to businesses that I feel treat me as a customer, not a person there to give them money. I haven't had any dealings with MB that have been bad. I purchased a large order and received it on time.

But... my local shop treats me like I'm the most important person ever to walk in that store. I buy a lot from them even though some things are pricier simply because I feel they think "I'm always right".

Tell them you deserve a 50% discount then :P

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Guest System Admin

mnstarzz13 wrote:
Tell them you deserve a 50% discount then :P

LMAO

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Kealia wrote:

jeff7181 wrote:


I'm intimately familiar with technology - I'm a data center administrator. I know what's required to perform such an update which is why I intended to cancel my brew club membership and wait until they get a real online ordering system in place.

Basically what this boils down to is an antiquated ordering system and poor customer service. They have plans to fix the ordering system, but what about customer service? How about COMMUNICATING to me that you're going to manually retrieve the payment information I entered for non-brew club orders and enter it into whatever database they're using for brew club orders rather than just doing it, charging my card and shipping me product that I've already placed a new order for.

Not doing so is poor customer service.

Not to be harsh, but everybody thinks they can solve somebody else's problems because "I studied this in school", or "I do X for a living".

You're obviously pissed off and not happy.
Send it all back, cancel your account and move on.

I never said I could solve their problem. I prefer to stay as far removed from PCI and SOX bullshit as I can. The only reason I brought up my profession is because the person I was replying to seemed to be of the impression I expected them to update their ordering back end overnight to accommodate me which is not true. Although I do find it amazing and ridiculous that any retailer with an online presence these days doesn't provide the type of functionality I desire.

In regard to "the customer is always right":
I don't believe this is true in every case, but it would be to Mr. Beer's (or any company's) benefit if they did. If they had told me no, that would have been acceptable - in fact, they did tell me no, so I placed a non-brew club order. However, they updated my payment information, charged my account and shipped the items without telling me AFTER they had told me the order would be canceled if I didn't provide an alternate payment method.

Yes, maybe the rep thought I wanted the order if they could update the payment information for me... they THOUGHT. That's the key here... they didn't communicate anything to me aside from the fact that my order would be canceled if I didn't provide alternate payment info. Well... I didn't provide any info they haven't already had for months, so why all of a sudden would they take it upon themselves to do this now without communicating that to me?

I won't dwell on this any longer except to say that COMMUNICATION could have prevented half of these problems I'm bitching about. Now I'm going to go home and have a Belgian Dubbel, or two, or three...

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jeff7181 wrote:


I won't dwell on this any longer except to say that COMMUNICATION could have prevented half of these problems I'm bitching about. Now I'm going to go home and have a Belgian Dubbel, or two, or three...

Can't argue with that.

Cheers.

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Kealia wrote:

jeff7181 wrote:


I won't dwell on this any longer except to say that COMMUNICATION could have prevented half of these problems I'm bitching about. Now I'm going to go home and have a Belgian Dubbel, or two, or three...

Can't argue with that.

Cheers.

+1 to Communication.
+3 to the Belgian Dubbel ;)

:drinking:

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jeff7181 wrote:

Kealia wrote:

jeff7181 wrote:


I'm intimately familiar with technology - I'm a data center administrator. I know what's required to perform such an update which is why I intended to cancel my brew club membership and wait until they get a real online ordering system in place.

Basically what this boils down to is an antiquated ordering system and poor customer service. They have plans to fix the ordering system, but what about customer service? How about COMMUNICATING to me that you're going to manually retrieve the payment information I entered for non-brew club orders and enter it into whatever database they're using for brew club orders rather than just doing it, charging my card and shipping me product that I've already placed a new order for.

Not doing so is poor customer service.

Not to be harsh, but everybody thinks they can solve somebody else's problems because "I studied this in school", or "I do X for a living".

You're obviously pissed off and not happy.
Send it all back, cancel your account and move on.

I never said I could solve their problem. I prefer to stay as far removed from PCI and SOX bullshit as I can. The only reason I brought up my profession is because the person I was replying to seemed to be of the impression I expected them to update their ordering back end overnight to accommodate me which is not true. Although I do find it amazing and ridiculous that any retailer with an online presence these days doesn't provide the type of functionality I desire.

In regard to "the customer is always right":
I don't believe this is true in every case, but it would be to Mr. Beer's (or any company's) benefit if they did. If they had told me no, that would have been acceptable - in fact, they did tell me no, so I placed a non-brew club order. However, they updated my payment information, charged my account and shipped the items without telling me AFTER they had told me the order would be canceled if I didn't provide an alternate payment method.

Yes, maybe the rep thought I wanted the order if they could update the payment information for me... they THOUGHT. That's the key here... they didn't communicate anything to me aside from the fact that my order would be canceled if I didn't provide alternate payment info. Well... I didn't provide any info they haven't already had for months, so why all of a sudden would they take it upon themselves to do this now without communicating that to me?

I won't dwell on this any longer except to say that COMMUNICATION could have prevented half of these problems I'm bitching about. Now I'm going to go home and have a Belgian Dubbel, or two, or three...

I finally agree with what you are saying here. well put this time around.

Ps, it's not that I don't agree with your original posts but I tend to like to play the opposing sides lawyer. I was told I should have been a lawyer just because I like to argue for the fun of it.

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In the end, we are all just here to make beer, and making beer makes us happy. Let us focus on that. :)

RDWHAHB!! :barman:

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