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PrivateJoker

New Standard Refill prices.

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Does it seem that the new standard refills are priced too high?

17.95 for 3.7% abv?
for 2 dollars for you can go premium for 4.6%

17.95 yields you a 1.6 lb can. I bought Australian Pale Ale today for 18.95 which is a 3.75lb can.

I'm not happy if this is a sign of things to come from the MB/Coopers merger.

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On the other hand, keep your eyes peeled for clearance prices on old refills! Time to stock up!

Frankly, MrB refills have always been expensive for what you get. Unless you could find them on clearance or use a coupon, even $15 for 2 gallons of 3.x% beer is expensive. I can brew a comparable 5 gallon AG batch for $10-12 including yeast.

Mr.B has always been about ease, convenience, and variety. No other manufacturer of no-boil kits has so many different options. Brewing a beer in 20 minutes as compared to 4-5 hours is also worth something.

Mr. Beer's niche is people who want to try homebrewing without a major monetary and time commitment, and in this niche, they certainly excel. Most homebrewers out there have started with a Mr.Beer kit, and almost all of them eventually move on to other methods. Once they do, most of them do not buy pre-hopped kits anymore, but there are always new brewers to take their place.

Will I buy these new basic refills at full price? Hell no! But if I see them at 75% off at Bed Bath and Beyond the day after Christmas, you bet your a$$ I'll stock up!

/end rant

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"russki" post=261878 said:

Frankly, MrB refills have always been expensive for what you get. Unless you could find them on clearance or use a coupon, even $15 for 2 gallons of 3.x% beer is expensive. I can brew a comparable 5 gallon AG batch for $10-12 including yeast.

Mr.B has always been about ease, convenience, and variety. No other manufacturer of no-boil kits has so many different options. Brewing a beer in 20 minutes as compared to 4-5 hours is also worth something.

/end rant

I agree with everything you say, 100%! There are times when I want to keep the pipeline going but don't have time to go all grain or even partial. I try not to let this happen but life happens. And, if I can open 2 can's of HME and maybe add some DME and hops and make a beer I like, then it's worth paying for.
However, with prices on everything else going up, hobbies are both expensive and a needed break in life so like everyone else, I'll do what I have to in order to get some enjoyment out of it.

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"PrivateJoker" post=261868 said:

Does it seem that the new standard refills are priced too high?

17.95 for 3.7% abv?
for 2 dollars for you can go premium for 4.6%

17.95 yields you a 1.6 lb can. I bought Australian Pale Ale today for 18.95 which is a 3.75lb can.

I'm not happy if this is a sign of things to come from the MB/Coopers merger.


Actually the new cans are 1.87 lb or 850 grams.

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My point is that Coopers can is a dollar more for double the product. I do understand the MB and Coopers will not be the most economical way when it comes to making beer. But 17.95 seems well overpriced...

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For these prices convenience is going to the store and picking up a 12 of Sam Adams. However I will continue to recommend Mr Beer to raw beginners. I still think they are the very best way to start out in brewing. There is less money invested than one invests in a 5 gallon kit. And there is less risk of failure on one's first beer.

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I'm not as concerned about the standard refill prices...but have you seen the prices on some of the new recipes :ohmy: Some are well into the $30 range and even into the $40's.

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Math time!

Old standard refill: $15
New standard refill: $18

Old yeast: $1
Booster: $3.50
One step: $1
Real cost of old refill, no extras: $9.50
Price per ounce: $0.50 (9.5 / 19 ounces)

New yeast: $2.50 (old yeast, $0.50 per gram x 5 grams)
One step: $1
Real cost of new refill, no extras: $14.50
Price per ounce: $0.50 (14.5 / 29 ounces)

I know it's conjecture on the price per gram of the yeast, so there's that.

TL;DR: It's the same price per ounce of malt extract.

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"Abqu" post=261908 said:

Math time!

Old standard refill: $15
New standard refill: $18

Old yeast: $1
Booster: $3.50
One step: $1
Real cost of old refill, no extras: $9.50
Price per ounce: $0.50 (9.5 / 19 ounces)

New yeast: $2.50 (old yeast, $0.50 per gram x 5 grams)
One step: $1
Real cost of new refill, no extras: $14.50
Price per ounce: $0.50 (14.5 / 29 ounces)

I know it's conjecture on the price per gram of the yeast, so there's that.

TL;DR: It's the same price per ounce of malt extract.

Agreed, and let's also remember to not compare against AG... Remember, for the convenience of these pre-hopped, expertly crafted extracts, you are also paying for the brewmaster, their knowledge and craftsmanship... And the time we didn't spend making them. There is some soft value in that.

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Well at my LHBS I can get the Mexican Cerveza 3.75# can for $22.


I believe the coopers kit comes with yeast so I coud buy 1# Pale LME for $2.75 ($24.75 total)

Danstar Nottingham yeast 11g for $3 if no yeast so I can make 5 gallons for $25

So for the same beer Mr. Beer is selling for $17.95 + shipping

The normal Coopers kit is 3.75# the new Mr. Beer is 1.87# so all they did was make 1/2 cans and added $6.95 to the price for the trouble

--- edit ---

Heck I just looked a Amazon.com, the Mexican Cerveza complete kit:
Includes Mexican Cerveza Ale Beer Kit (3.75#)
Coopers Brew Enhancer 2
Coopers Carbonation Drops

Makes 6 gallons (60 12oz bottles)

Cost $33.35 FREE shipping

Compare to two Mr. Beer kits $35.90+shipping and you still need to add carb sugar and the ABV will be 3.1% not the 4.2% of the Amazon kit also only 4 gallons from Mr. Beer and 6 gallons from Amazon.

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"BlackDuck" post=261902 said:

I'm not as concerned about the standard refill prices...but have you seen the prices on some of the new recipes :ohmy: Some are well into the $30 range and even into the $40's.

I couldn't agree more. I am not likely to buy the standard refills, but I still consider and do buy some of the recipes. Buy recipes just got a lot more expensive.

hmmm.. I don't use standard refills, the recipe's are getting more expensive. It sure makes it more attractive to brew from ingredients from the LHBS and scaled down 5 gallon recipes from on-line. :-(

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It should also be pointed out that there aren't really any comparable recipes between the old list and the new.

The closest we could get would be Shocktoberfest because it uses three cans of HME, but even then it's a tough comparison to make because of the UME, hops, special yeast, etc etc.

The recipes that use two cans of the new HME are essential like using three HME's under the old system.

I'll admit I had a bit of a freakout like many others last night when I first saw the prices, especially the recipes that use 2x HME cans. But after taking some time to mull it over, I think we're better to wait to see what the UMEs cost, and how those recipes compare to the ones we are used to, where we use a can of HME and UME.

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Instead of editing a previous post, I thought I'd make another point because it's important.

I'm not saying that the prices are great. My point is that they aren't out of line with where it's been.

Personally, the new prices ARE preventative. I haven't decided which way I'll be going, but it's 60/40 moving elsewhere. Fortunately, I jumped on a great deal this week, and have 13 batches to make before that decision needs to be made.

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"Abqu" post=261908 said:

Math time!

Old standard refill: $15
New standard refill: $18

Old yeast: $1
Booster: $3.50
One step: $1
Real cost of old refill, no extras: $9.50
Price per ounce: $0.50 (9.5 / 19 ounces)

New yeast: $2.50 (old yeast, $0.50 per gram x 5 grams)
One step: $1
Real cost of new refill, no extras: $14.50
Price per ounce: $0.50 (14.5 / 29 ounces)

I know it's conjecture on the price per gram of the yeast, so there's that.

TL;DR: It's the same price per ounce of malt extract.

BTW one thing you forgot.....

Old 1.21# malt + .813# booster = 2.023# ingredients for 3.5% abv (1.036 Gravity)
New 1.87# malt = all ingredients for ABV of 3.1% (1.032 Gravity)
So cost per ingredients ARE NOT the same, They are expecting us to pay more for less

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I use these things mostly for convenince. The time savings to me on some days is the difference between brewing or not and they tend to make good beer bases that I can tinker with by adding more malt/steeps and late hops (at least the old premium cans do, I'd guess these will too).

So I don't mind spending a bit more for this. Time savings is often more important then money for me, I have too many hobbies.

But even so, I typically only purchased the old extracts on sale, and this looks to be the case going forwards as well with these new ones, where I was hoping that there would be some cost benefit to this merger.

I'll reserve full judgement until we see what the new "premium" refills will be and the prices of just the extracts individually without yeast & 1-step, and UMEs, if they still sell them that way. I buy my one-step in bulk buckets, so I could care less about getting some of it, and I would rather pick up whatever yeast I want, especially if the included yeast is coopers ale yeast.

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Are those prices too high? We'll see I guess. We'll see in time if people actually buy them.

For me, though, I'm just like Russki. Mr. Beer can adversise $18 1.87# HME all they want. I won't buy it for that price. If a good deal comes along (and I expect we may see more discounts as stores phase out the "old" HME cans), then I will certainly stock up. Otherwise, I have no problem using a different extract.

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Mr. Beer has always tried to push retail. Especially around the holidays, kmart, sears, etc. And I belive MrB/Coop has wanted to make the push to LHBS. So if they have great prices and shipping on their web site, no retailler is going to want to carry their product. Their price without specials is always going to be highest on their website. If distribution increases you will see more of the product locally and at good prices. Or even things like the Amazon buy 3 get one free specials. But, the MrB web site can't be the price leader.

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"Trollby" post=261918 said:


BTW one thing you forgot.....

Old 1.21# malt + .813# booster = 2.023# ingredients for 3.5% abv (1.036 Gravity)
New 1.87# malt = all ingredients for ABV of 3.1% (1.032 Gravity)
So cost per ingredients ARE NOT the same, They are expecting us to pay more for less

Maybe not per gravity point, but you could argue that the quality per gravity point of the all-malt option versus the booster compensates for the price.

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Old 1.21# malt + .813# booster = 2.023# ingredients for 3.5% abv (1.036 Gravity)
New 1.87# malt = all ingredients for ABV of 3.1% (1.032 Gravity)
So cost per ingredients ARE NOT the same, They are expection we will pay more for less

To be fair, I guess you could argue that the malt is more expensive then booster and it balances out. Maybe. (I'm just playing the other side here).

That said, going back to "the price is too damn high" side:

From my perspective, I tend to buy the current premium refills on sale wherever I can find them (amazon 3-4, sears, wherever).

So I am used to getting 2.24# of HME for about the same price as these new standard refills, or even less.

If I buy a muntons gold or woodforde kit, then I'm getting 3.3#'s cans of HME for the same price.

So the prices *are* too high IMHO.

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"VTGroff" post=261923 said:

"Trollby" post=261918 said:


BTW one thing you forgot.....

Old 1.21# malt + .813# booster = 2.023# ingredients for 3.5% abv (1.036 Gravity)
New 1.87# malt = all ingredients for ABV of 3.1% (1.032 Gravity)
So cost per ingredients ARE NOT the same, They are expecting us to pay more for less

Maybe not per gravity point, but you could argue that the quality per gravity point of the all-malt option versus the booster compensates for the price.

I would agree if it were amount and gravity were same, but raising price and giving less.

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"Trollby" post=261926 said:

I would agree if it were amount and gravity were same, but raising price and giving less.

What did the old refills cost? You're getting 50% more malt and no booster, and losing 4 gravity points. Did prices increase by 50%? Booster's relatively cheap, right? I imagine that the difference isn't as drastic as you're making it out to be...

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"VTGroff" post=261928 said:

"Trollby" post=261926 said:

I would agree if it were amount and gravity were same, but raising price and giving less.

What did the old refills cost? You're getting 50% more malt and no booster, and losing 4 gravity points. Did prices increase by 50%? Booster's relatively cheap, right? I imagine that the difference isn't as drastic as you're making it out to be...

If you added up the ingredients separately for the old standard refills, the price came to $14.39. The new refills are priced at $17.95. So for $3.56 more, you get all malt instead of Booster and 2.5 times the amount of yeast.


Rick

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I have been looking to start doing 5 gallon batches and now seems like a good time for me.I wanted to start steeping and getting a little more advanced anyway.I will continue to use my 2 LBK`s as fermenters for now then look to getting a 5 gallon kit and giving my LBK`s to my son who turns 21 soon so he can get started with Mr.Beer .My next brewclub order isn`t due till the end of July so I have plenty of time to keep an eye on what happens. Stiil ,the best thing about Mr.Beer is this borg and its people and I will stay here even if ITS price goes up !

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Mr. Beer refills are like a gateway drug. As soon as I figured out what I was doing, I stopped buying the stuff. If I see it on clearance in a store, I'll load up and use it when I'm short on time.

At about $18 a pop, I probably still would have bought a few to get started, and to get acquainted with the process. Making beer doesn't get any easier, so I guess you're paying for convenience.

To echo what others have said, the new refills look great and I would love to try them.... But for that price, I will not.

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Thats the point that I am trying to make. Same product cut in half but added in price.
for 18.95 I bought 3.75lb with yeast which will fill up 2 LBK.

To that that off the MB site would have cost me 36 + shipping.

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I’ll share my thoughts before the “Occupy Mr. Beer” movement gets too far down the road.

As was already pointed out, MB prices have always been higher than other extract kits and way more than comparable AG recipes. However, there is also the convenience tradeoff. 30 minutes vs 4-5 hours can be a huge advantage to some. Not having to worry about “did I use too much of this or too little of that” also plays a part. Would I have started brewing without MB? Probably not. Do I see it as a long term brewing solution for me? No. Will I use it occasionally depending on my time constraints and other factors? Probably, depending on the quality of the new products.

If a product stays the same, one could generally expect lower prices over time. When new products are introduced, they are generally at a slightly higher price than what they are replacing (New, Improved, More of this, etc.). From a business perspective, I see nothing out of line with the new products and new pricing (considering record grain and transportation costs). Especially if it results in a higher quality finished product. The only way to see if that end product is truly better and justifies the higher cost is to brew a couple and judge for yourself. Yes, that’s easy for me to say as I was one of the lucky randoms, but the point remains.

IMO, Mr. Beer is still a great, easy entry into the homebrewing “hobby”, and I will continue to recommend it to anyone who wants to get in to homebrewing. As long as you are enjoying the hobby and making good beer, do what works best for you.

RDWHAHB!!

Cheers!

:chug:

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So one trip here costs me 18.99 and I get 2 cases beers out of it. 9.50 a case.

http://www.southhillsbrewing.com/product_detail.asp?category=120&product={6348B4C8-6FBF-43A0-9873-79F1F23E996D}


If I buy at MB the 2 same two cases would cost 22.50 a case. (36 + 7 ship)

This is all the same product now, so I dont see the reason for the higher prices...

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"PrivateJoker" post=261938 said:

So one trip here costs me 18.99 and I get 2 cases beers out of it. 9.50 a case.

http://www.southhillsbrewing.com/product_detail.asp?category=120&product={6348B4C8-6FBF-43A0-9873-79F1F23E996D}


If I buy at MB the 2 same two cases would cost 22.50 a case. (36 + 7 ship)

This is all the same product now, so I dont see the reason for the higher prices...

Don't forget the description at the bottom of that page:

"Canned beer kits include hopped malt extract and dry yeast. They usually require the addition of approximately two pounds of dried malt extract (or sugar) to make a full batch. We recommend using the lightest colored dry malt extract (such as Munton's Extra Light or Briess Pilsen) for the best results. If desired, finishing and dry hops can also be added.
"

Not quite apples to apples, but you still make a good point.

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"GWCR" post=261940 said:

"PrivateJoker" post=261938 said:

So one trip here costs me 18.99 and I get 2 cases beers out of it. 9.50 a case.

http://www.southhillsbrewing.com/product_detail.asp?category=120&product={6348B4C8-6FBF-43A0-9873-79F1F23E996D}


If I buy at MB the 2 same two cases would cost 22.50 a case. (36 + 7 ship)

This is all the same product now, so I dont see the reason for the higher prices...

Don't forget the description at the bottom of that page:

"Canned beer kits include hopped malt extract and dry yeast. They usually require the addition of approximately two pounds of dried malt extract (or sugar) to make a full batch. We recommend using the lightest colored dry malt extract (such as Munton's Extra Light or Briess Pilsen) for the best results. If desired, finishing and dry hops can also be added.
"

Not quite apples to apples, but you still make a good point.

Also, since you are comparing MB to a Coopers product, I doubt the parent company cares which one you end up purchasing. ;):P

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You right.

I bought 1 can 18.99 and the can comes with coopers yeast.

I did buy 2lb corn sugar 3.20.
22.20 for coopers from store as opposed to 42 from MB.

If this thread was pre-merger you would have a different argument, since they are all one this is just price gouging...

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I bought an apple at my LHBS. It's a much deeper red than the orange I bought from the Mr Beer website.

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This sure has created quite a stir. How many threads we have now concerning the changes? Well, I guess it's all relative. For me, stretching my dollar is a genuine survival skill, not just a matter of pride. I have been living off a rather modest income all my life, and I manage to live okay by being extra careful with my money. I'm sure there are plenty just like me right here on the Borg.

I also know plenty of people who have much better incomes to live on, and they are able to be more relaxed and carefree with their spending. And I'm sure there's a few like that here on the Borg, too. Maybe they are more intelligent, maybe more hard-working, or maybe just plain lucky. What difference does it make, really?

To each their own, and we all live our life the way we see fit to live it, either by necessity or by choice. And we all try to get along together.

For many of us, if we are able to achieve a certain result for less money, we just need to do it. That's why I have never paid full price for any Mr Beer ingredients. I always wait until there is a sale and then I get what I can afford, hedging my expenses sometimes for weeks, or even months in advance. The most I ever paid for a standard MB refill including tax and shipping is $8. Also, like many here, I do not hesitate to use other products besides Mr Beer whenever possible.

For what it's worth, to me Mr Beer does indeed serve a purpose, for convenience and ease of use and training wheels for new brewers. It is also not the cheapest alternative, most of the time. You pay for convenience. Catching it on sale is great, when you can do it.

But now, in my opinion, the premium has increased even just a bit more. I've seen several different methods of trying to compare old prices to new prices, but let's face it, to a fair extent, it's apples and oranges. A new can of HME is about 150% of an old can. An old can was $10 with 2 gm yeast. A new can is $18 with 5 gm yeast. So the HME would be about $15 and therefore the extra 3 gm of yeast is $3. Not exactly gonna break the bank, but it's just a tiny bit more premium than it was before.

Again, the bottom line is, to each his own, according to what their needs are. For those among us who are fortunate enough to be able to freely afford the Mr Beer products both before and after the changes, I hope you will continue to report your experiences with all of us so we can enjoy them through your accounts. And for those who might be struggling a bit more financially, we still have so many other fine options out there that we'll always be able to enjoy our home brews, one way or the other, including Cooper's extracts under their own label, ironically.

And let's not forget, this Borg is a wonderful resource for anyone who uses Mr Beer products as well as for anyone who does not use them, for whatever reasons they may have.

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Indeed. Very well said Joe. And I believe that is true under both the old prices and the new prices.


Rick

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Just realized a flaw in my calculations. :pound:

The old standard came with 19 oz HME and 2 gm of yeast. The new standard comes with 29 oz HME, and 5 gm of yeast for $18. While the new standard refill has 1.5 times the HME and 3 extra gm of yeast, I forgot that the $3.50 booster is now removed. So what we end up doing is add $5 worth of HME, add $1.50 worth of yeast(estimate), and remove $3.50 worth of booster.

So, $5.00 + $1.50 = $6.50 added,
and $6.50 added - $3.50 removed = $3.00 net added value.

Therefore, the new standard refill should cost $3.00 more than the old standard refill, mathematically speaking, based strictly on Mr Beer prices.

So, if they were to go from $16 to $19, that would be mathematically correct. Of course, there's no easy way to account for all the non-mathematical differences between the old and the new refills. Can't have everything.

[edit] - BTW, PrivateJoker, I think you're right about that comparison between Cooper's large can with yeast versus MB/Coopers smaller can with yeast. That's indeed, at least to me, a very valid comparison. It's old MB refills versus new MB refills which is more like apples and oranges.

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"PrivateJoker" post=261956 said:

There is apparently a lot up uproar on the facebook posting about this as well.


I saw that - and I saw some indication that there may (MAY) be a 5-gallon MrB HME in the works.

I personally don't care what MrB charges. If people are willing to pay for it and the business survives on those prices, then fine. People will buy them. Just not me. :)

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"OikoEco" post=261958 said:

I personally don't care what MrB charges. If people are willing to pay for it and the business survives on those prices, then fine. People will buy them. Just not me. :)


That's an excellent point and a great attitude, I do believe. Let's be honest with ourselves. Mr B and Coopers are in business to make money. That's what they do. They don't do what they do as a public service. No more than we do our jobs as a public service. We need and expect to get paid. At the same time, some of us are good to our bosses and some are not.

While all businesses are out to make money, some are good to their customers and some are not. Mr Beer has always been good to their customers while trying to turn a profit, as far as I know. This is not exactly the merging of Dali Lama and Mother Teresa, however. It's just a business, and we should expect them to try to make money. And I'm glad they do indeed try to offer good products, value and service in the process.

I think we'll all be okay here. Some will continue to use some or all of the Mr B products. Some may use more than before. Some may use less than before. Some may start using it and some may stop using it. Life will go on and we'll all be okay with our personal choices.

I don't think at all that it's a bad idea for everyone to voice their opinion, speak their mind, vent their frustrations, or whatever else might strike the mood. I think we learn from all we hear, and even from all we say, so that's just great. It all evolves. We'll all be fine in the end.
Let's all have some of our great home brew and enjoy life. :gulp:

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"PrivateJoker" post=261953 said:

How is comparing coopers 3.75 can to MB/Coppers 1.75 can apples to oranges? Same product..

If its the same product then I don't see the problem. Just buy the cheap one. Or buy the small one if that's all you can use and pay a premium. Or look elsewhere and find them on sale. Or take your business to another brand.

Go to any grocery store and you find the same brand of yogurt in two sizes but the larger one is often much cheaper per oz. Shop at costco and find the same brands in bulk at a discount. Is it worth it? depends how much of the product you use.

I agree the prices are high but I don't see why anyones panties should be in a bunch over it.

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"Joechianti" post=261964 said:

"OikoEco" post=261958 said:

I personally don't care what MrB charges. If people are willing to pay for it and the business survives on those prices, then fine. People will buy them. Just not me. :)


That's an excellent point and a great attitude, I do believe. Let's be honest with ourselves. Mr B and Coopers are in business to make money. That's what they do. They don't do what they do as a public service. No more than we do our jobs as a public service. We need and expect to get paid. At the same time, some of us are good to our bosses and some are not.

While all businesses are out to make money, some are good to their customers and some are not. Mr Beer has always been good to their customers while trying to turn a profit, as far as I know. This is not exactly the merging of Dali Lama and Mother Teresa, however. It's just a business, and we should expect them to try to make money. And I'm glad they do indeed try to offer good products, value and service in the process.

I think we'll all be okay here. Some will continue to use some or all of the Mr B products. Some may use more than before. Some may use less than before. Some may start using it and some may stop using it. Life will go on and we'll all be okay with our personal choices.

I don't think at all that it's a bad idea for everyone to voice their opinion, speak their mind, vent their frustrations, or whatever else might strike the mood. I think we learn from all we hear, and even from all we say, so that's just great. It all evolves. We'll all be fine in the end.
Let's all have some of our great home brew and enjoy life. :gulp:

You wax poetically so well Sir JoeC...sounds like you are bucking for the BOM next month...get back to brewing & drinking or you're gonna make us all cry Mr Philosopher. Or have you been nipping heavily again???
[attachment=7992]phil2.jpg[/attachment]

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Looking at the other Mr. Beer forum it appears some are also questioning the low ABV and gravity of the new kits. We'll just have to let time tell us how things work out.

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"PrivateJoker" post=261956 said:

There is apparently a lot up uproar on the facebook posting about this as well.

eeeeew! i knew the "f" bomb would show up soon

bpgreen "redder apples than the oranges" now that's funny
i dont care who you are thats funny :laugh:

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:laugh:


[attachment=7994]545165_10150838423989091_578574090_10106664_1234756049_n.jpg[/attachment]

I think in cost/bottle (12oz) but I'm too lazy to figure it out.

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With the prices where they are at with the shipping, almost any seasoned brewer would opt to buying another recipe kit such as True Brew or something from AHS, or Midwest. These 5 gal kits really aren't that complicated and yield a lot more beer for the $$.

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OK, I should stop being so negative but I have to point this out.
Take a look here. This sounds like the type of beer I make...a hoppy and malty IPA. I make IPA's 80% of the time. For 2 gallons, this would cost me more than $50 to make. While there is a place for this for those who want simple, I, being half Italian, can't justify spending that much for 2 gallons when I could likely make 8 or more for $50.

I know Mr. Beer can't be everything to everybody but in this example, they give 2 yeast packets PLUS the US-05 (which this beer really should have). The good is that they offer better choices, the bad is simply the price.

:lol: I'll probably try this once anyway. :lol:

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Oops. Just posted this elsewhere when I guess it should have been here. I think the best way to evaluate the new price is against the old Premium Refill since those were all malt, all HME, and include 4 grams of yeast.

Premium Refill $20 for 1100 grams or 1.81 cents/gm.
New can $18 for 850 grams or 2.12 cents/gm.

That equals a 16.5% price increase.

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Well, Beer Lord, $45 is a tad high for 5 gallons of beer, but it breaks down to about $6 per 6-pack, which isn't too bad if the beer is really good. I guess that's okay.

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Personally the reason I upgraded to 5-gallon batches was because of the cost.
I compared the cost of the ADIPA kit to the cost of a Northern Brewer 5-Gallon Chinook IPA kit.

MB - 19.95 for:
2.4 lbs of hopped malt extract
2g packet of general use yeast
Yields 2.2 gallons give or take

NB - 33.74 for:
7 lbs of unhopped malt extract
11.5g of safale US-05 yeast
3 Oz of Chinook pellet hops
Yields 5 gallons give or take

So basically I looked at it like this:
I could pay 39.90 with MB to get a 5-gallon batch using 4.8lbs of malt extract and no hops and 4g cheap yeast.
OR
I could pay 33.74 to make a 5-gallon batch using 7lbs of malt extract with 3 Oz of hops 11.5g of good yeast.

But MB has convenience on their side, it took a couple hours to brew my NB kit, about a half hour for MBs kit.
I also didn't have to give MBs kit an ice bath, and you don't need a huge kettle.

Now this argument for convenience could be changed by the fact that you can cut the NB kit in half, brew with a much smaller pot, and eliminate the need for an ice bath with by topping off with very cold water like MB does.
But you do have to boil hops for an hour no matter how you slice it, so that's really the only difference I can see.

And believe me, the difference in taste is HUGE. Hop boiling is well worth it IMAO.

Next time I make a 5 gallon kit I might just brew half of it to avoid the ice bath until I get a wort chiller. Honestly that was the hardest part, the hop boil isn't hard it just takes time.

Now I'm not against the MB refills at all, just telling my personal experience and why I went with different options out there. And that's talking about the old prices.

I will boil hops for an hour to save money and make better beer every single time.

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"gophers6" post=261985 said:

Oops. Just posted this elsewhere when I guess it should have been here. I think the best way to evaluate the new price is against the old Premium Refill since those were all malt, all HME, and include 4 grams of yeast.

Premium Refill $20 for 1100 grams or 1.81 cents/gm.
New can $18 for 850 grams or 2.12 cents/gm.

That equals a 16.5% price increase.

To be fair, you may want to drop $0.50 to $17.50 to account for the extra gram of yeast the new refills have. That brings the number to 2.06 cents/gm, roughly a 12% price increase.


Rick

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"Joechianti" post=261986 said:

Well, Beer Lord, $45 is a tad high for 5 gallons of beer, but it breaks down to about $6 per 6-pack, which isn't too bad if the beer is really good. I guess that's okay.


The $45 for Surly Dog IPA is only for 2 gallons. That's just a case of beer. I could get a case of my favorite Racer 5 for that.
$45 for 5 gallons isn't bad at all and I could live with that.

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"Beer-lord" post=261990 said:

"Joechianti" post=261986 said:

Well, Beer Lord, $45 is a tad high for 5 gallons of beer, but it breaks down to about $6 per 6-pack, which isn't too bad if the beer is really good. I guess that's okay.


The $45 for Surly Dog IPA is only for 2 gallons. That's just a case of beer. I could get a case of my favorite Racer 5 for that.
$45 for 5 gallons isn't bad at all and I could live with that.

Racer 5? You had me at IPA :laugh:

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"T8r Salad" post=261967 said:

...sounds like you are bucking for the BOM next month...

I got much loftier goals than that, starting with a new set of choppers.

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"Joechianti" post=261993 said:

"T8r Salad" post=261967 said:

...sounds like you are bucking for the BOM next month...

I got much loftier goals than that, starting with a new set of choppers.


Teeth or cycles?

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"MonkeyMan" post=261997 said:

"Joechianti" post=261993 said:

"T8r Salad" post=261967 said:

...sounds like you are bucking for the BOM next month...

I got much loftier goals than that, starting with a new set of choppers.


Teeth or cycles?

Cycles, of course. Why do you ask? Is there something wrong with my teeth?

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"Joechianti" post=261998 said:

"MonkeyMan" post=261997 said:

"Joechianti" post=261993 said:

"T8r Salad" post=261967 said:

...sounds like you are bucking for the BOM next month...

I got much loftier goals than that, starting with a new set of choppers.


Teeth or cycles?

Cycles, of course. Why do you ask? Is there something wrong with my teeth?

You crack me up, Joe.

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"Joechianti" post=261998 said:

"MonkeyMan" post=261997 said:

"Joechianti" post=261993 said:

"T8r Salad" post=261967 said:

...sounds like you are bucking for the BOM next month...

I got much loftier goals than that, starting with a new set of choppers.


Teeth or cycles?

Cycles, of course. Why do you ask? Is there something wrong with my teeth?


Nope, I think your tooth is fine.

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I'll probably purchase a few just to try out. I find the 5 gal cooper no boil liquid cans to be much more economical at ~$24 with tax from my local shop if I'm being lazy.

Now that I'll be scaling to 15 gal batches with the lbks as experimenters and secondaries for fruit flavoring I'll probably rarely use MB now... but I'll always remember the little brown bread smelling thing sitting in my closet.

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"MonkeyMan" post=262014 said:

"Joechianti" post=261998 said:

"MonkeyMan" post=261997 said:

"Joechianti" post=261993 said:

"T8r Salad" post=261967 said:

...sounds like you are bucking for the BOM next month...

I got much loftier goals than that, starting with a new set of choppers.


Teeth or cycles?

Cycles, of course. Why do you ask? Is there something wrong with my teeth?


Nope, I think your tooth is fine.

All one of them are great.

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"VanceFox" post=262019 said:

I'll probably purchase a few just to try out. I find the 5 gal cooper no boil liquid cans to be much more economical at ~$24 with tax from my local shop if I'm being lazy.

Now that I'll be scaling to 15 gal batches with the lbks as experimenters and secondaries for fruit flavoring I'll probably rarely use MB now... but I'll always remember the little brown bread smelling thing sitting in my closet.

To tell you the truth, those six international ones are tempting me big time. Like you, they're out of my target price goal. I try to come in at $10 to $12 for an LBK filled past the Q, including my basic refill plus any doctoring up ingredients I add. But still, they really ARE tempting.

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I'm a noob here and I stocked up on Mr Beer premium refills both from Mr Beer and the Sears sale. I have enough for about 10 batches. I plan on supplementing the brews with the appropriate dme and hop boils and I have already been buying different yeasts that are more appropriate for the style that I'm brewing. I really don't see myself purchasing the new products based on the price and low abv and og. I'll probably start looking for other lme or step it up and try all grain after I run out of Mr Beer product. I hope Coopers is at least paying attention to us and either improves the product by providing more malt extract (without an unreasonable price increase) or lowers the price of their new product line.

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See, at the 20% off bundle pricing, this makes more sense. You are talking roughly $16/HME including shipping for the American Series and about $15/HME for the International Series you are getting closer to my wheelhouse. At that price, I can still add a pound of DME for another $5 or so and I'm brewing a decent batch for about $20.

I can live with that. Amazing what a $3-4 savings does to the perception of the product!

At that price, I'll probably order all 10 and pick up a few bags of DME from dmemart.com and have some fun.

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"manosteel9423" post=262058 said:

At that price, I'll probably order all 10 and pick up a few bags of DME from dmemart.com and have some fun.

Fun is good!

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"manosteel9423" post=262058 said:

I'll probably order all 10 and pick up a few bags of DME from dmemart.com and have some fun.

How is DME mart? I know their prices are great, but is the quality of the DME also great? (or do you get what you pay for?)

Just curious - I've been thinking of stocking up on DME.

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"OikoEco" post=262061 said:

"manosteel9423" post=262058 said:

I'll probably order all 10 and pick up a few bags of DME from dmemart.com and have some fun.

How is DME mart? I know their prices are great, but is the quality of the DME also great? (or do you get what you pay for?)

Just curious - I've been thinking of stocking up on DME.

Haven't used it yet, but its Briess DME, so the quality shouldn't be an issue.

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My DME mart order should be in this week, but I won't get to brew until June.

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Wow, went to bed last night and everything was all good. Check the borg tonight and all hells broke loose. An interesting thread/read. IMHO the price is unacceptable and I will only purchase these HME's when they are on fire sale. I'm really glad that I was able to use my 20% coupon for three months, and Sears had that great deal as well as Outfitters this week. I have 30 premium refills and several UME's in my stockpile. Before I checked in here I was looking at a Barley Mill and 5 gallon setups. I guess I'll be moving in that direction quicker than expected. I do like the ease of extract brewing and having childern it makes sense as time is for family IMHO. If I do make the move to all grain it will be only occasionaly. Extract brewing will probably move to DME and steeped grain brews. I really hope that MB/Coppers doesn't shoot themselves in the foot by being greedy. It makes no sense to piss off their base.

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"ba1980" post=262076 said:

My DME mart order should be in this week, but I won't get to brew until June.

I just got 12 pounds from them and 2 pounds of hops from "A Ton of Hops". Both were outstanding in pricing.

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it's called a Ban-Wagon and every one is climbing aboard today,
a 6pack of good Beer in my home town cost over $8 up to $10 (12oz bottles),
I remember when I could buy a case of Bud in the early 80s (back when it tasted good) for $11, and quarts of Bud coast $1, that's $8 for 2 gallons

Jim

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"Drink It" post=262092 said:

it's called a Ban-Wagon and every one is climbing aboard today,
a 6pack of good Beer in my home town cost over $8 up to $10 (12oz bottles),
I remember when I could buy a case of Bud in the early 80s (back when it tasted good) for $11, and quarts of Bud coast $1, that's $8 for 2 gallons

Jim

+1 to that! I still remember when you could get a 6-pack of Old Milwaukee for 99 cents. And many name brands for $1.50. Now, even run-of-the-mill stuff is around $6.

But heck, when I started driving, gas was 25 cents a gallon. And cigarettes were $2 a carton. Even a $10 hooker was only $5. I used to use them to crochet rugs and potholders.

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"Drink It" post=262092 said:

it's called a Ban-Wagon and every one is climbing aboard today,
a 6pack of good Beer in my home town cost over $8 up to $10 (12oz bottles),
I remember when I could buy a case of Bud in the early 80s (back when it tasted good) for $11, and quarts of Bud coast $1, that's $8 for 2 gallons

Jim

Not the band wagon, just little over a week ago you could get a Deluxe kit for $17.95 with 1 HME and 1 UME (2.41# malt) and 2g yeast with 4% ABV or there abouts.

Now the same cost for onlt 1.87# malt and 5g yeast for 3.1% ABV.

Even the standard kit had more ingredients, the booster and HME = 2.023#, Funny Mr. Beer always said "Booster is a blend of fermentable and non-fermentable designed to mimic an all grain brew"

If they want to make the new HME have 2.25# malt and be really 3.7% abv I would pay the higher price, but will not pay more for less product

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And another thing, how the hell are you supposed to get 3.7% abv out of this?

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"gophers6" post=262180 said:

And another thing, how the hell are you supposed to get 3.7% abv out of this?

You don't. Unless:

1) You brew it as 1.8 gallons or so? (just guessing at that number)

OR

2) Coopers included yeast attenuates like a saison yeast (doubt it)

OR

3) The extract isn't all malt and contains a good dose of dextrose. (they claim it's all malt)

OR

4) They mashed it really low (I doubt it).

So basically... you don't.

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I think one of my concerns about this new product line is all the new brewers that get a MB kit.

Almost ALL newbies will chase ABV. I was guilty too. ;)

With the old MB line you got a higher ABV initially (albeit with booster).

New people generally add white sugar, boost ABV and get cidery beer that doesn't taste the greatest.

This turns a lot of new MB brewers off but most push on, learn to chase flavor not ABV and they become assimilated with the hobby.

This equals more steady customer for MB.

My concern, with a lower initial ABV on the new line newbies will add EVEN MORE sugar to boost ABV to the same level and really hate the beer they get, snubbing MB and selling their LBK in yard sales.

A little cidery beer = taste a little bad = I'll give it another try
A VERY cidery beer = a very bad taste = Damn guess homebrews not for me

Just an opinion.

As for price, on the surface I probably won't be buying off the MB site in the future and will instead seek out 5 gallon batches I can split or dabble with steeping grains and other avenues for less price per batch.

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they claim the new basic refills are 3.7%, same as they claimed for the old booster ones. I haven't brewed one of those straight up in a long time... Can anyone verify for sure with an accurate measurement that the old basic booster refills did indeed give 3.7% abv result when brewed straight up? I seem to remember people saying they've been overestimating all along.

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I'm guessing my 2 will be at 3.34% ABV. That's fill'd right up to the 8.5 line and not an ounce over.

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"Gluek" post=262249 said:

they claim the new basic refills are 3.7%, same as they claimed for the old booster ones. I haven't brewed one of those straight up in a long time... Can anyone verify for sure with an accurate measurement that the old basic booster refills did indeed give 3.7% abv result when brewed straight up? I seem to remember people saying they've been overestimating all along.


I think the old basic refills did come out to about 3.7, but it was 2 from the HME and 1.7 from the booster, and the estimate was 2.3 from HME and 1.4 from booster. They tended to underestimate the contribution of some of the other adjuncts (like honey), too.

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I don't know......around my home any 6 pack of beer that is "good" runs 8-10 dollars per 6 pack. At that cost, the new kits are still cheaper cents per once. True, the old kits were a better buy. But maybe these taste better than the old kits? Either way, it's still cheaper than buying beer. And it tastes better too!

Plus I get enjoyment out of making it. It's a fun hobby! Hobby being the key word

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"antiwraith" post=262265 said:

I don't know......around my home any 6 pack of beer that is "good" runs 8-10 dollars per 6 pack. At that cost, the new kits are still cheaper cents per once. True, the old kits were a better buy. But maybe these taste better than the old kits? Either way, it's still cheaper than buying beer. And it tastes better too!

Plus I get enjoyment out of making it. It's a fun hobby! Hobby being the key word

That you get enjoyment out of your hobby is the main thing, I agree. If it wasn't fun I wouldn't do it. But I want good beer at the end. Maybe the new refills will taste better than the old ones. But I don't see how. Check out the difference:

"Old" Grand Bohemian Czech Pilsner:

NET WEIGHT 38.9 OUNCES (1104 GRAMS)
Enjoy this traditional Czech lager dosed with rare Amarillo hops for a truly distinctive twist.

REFILL INCLUDES:
2 Cans Grand Bohemian Czech Pilsner HME
2 Packets Dry Brewing Yeast (under lid of HMEs)
1 Packet No-Rinse Cleanser

--------------------------------------------------------------
"New" Grand Bohemian Czech Pilsner:
NET WEIGHT 1.87 POUNDS (850 GRAMS)
This recipe will produce 2 gallons of beer in approximately 2 weeks.

A characteristically bright golden pilsner brewed using premium pale malt, displaying traditional spicy Saaz hop aroma and a dry, refreshing bitter finish.

REFILL INCLUDES:
1 Can Grande Bohemian Czech Pilsner HME
1 Packet Dry Brewing Yeast (under lid of HME)
1 Packet No-Rinse Cleanser


Interestingly, here's the new recipe for "Partytime Pilsner" for $23.53:
RECIPE INCLUDES:
1 Grand Bohemian Czech Pilsner HME
1 Packet Dry Brewing Yeast (under lid of HME)
1 Pouch Booster™
1 Packet Saaz Pellet Hops
1 Packet No-Rinse Cleanser

Fortunately, I've got a stash so I don't need to buy the new ones anytime soon, until they get all the changes in place and review their pricing structure.

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"alb" post=262270 said:

"antiwraith" post=262265 said:

I don't know......around my home any 6 pack of beer that is "good" runs 8-10 dollars per 6 pack. At that cost, the new kits are still cheaper cents per once. True, the old kits were a better buy. But maybe these taste better than the old kits? Either way, it's still cheaper than buying beer. And it tastes better too!

Plus I get enjoyment out of making it. It's a fun hobby! Hobby being the key word

That you get enjoyment out of your hobby is the main thing, I agree. If it wasn't fun I wouldn't do it. But I want good beer at the end. Maybe the new refills will taste better than the old ones. But I don't see how. Check out the difference:

"Old" Grand Bohemian Czech Pilsner:

NET WEIGHT 38.9 OUNCES (1104 GRAMS)
Enjoy this traditional Czech lager dosed with rare Amarillo hops for a truly distinctive twist.

REFILL INCLUDES:
2 Cans Grand Bohemian Czech Pilsner HME
2 Packets Dry Brewing Yeast (under lid of HMEs)
1 Packet No-Rinse Cleanser

--------------------------------------------------------------
"New" Grand Bohemian Czech Pilsner:
NET WEIGHT 1.87 POUNDS (850 GRAMS)
This recipe will produce 2 gallons of beer in approximately 2 weeks.

A characteristically bright golden pilsner brewed using premium pale malt, displaying traditional spicy Saaz hop aroma and a dry, refreshing bitter finish.

REFILL INCLUDES:
1 Can Grande Bohemian Czech Pilsner HME
1 Packet Dry Brewing Yeast (under lid of HME)
1 Packet No-Rinse Cleanser


Interestingly, here's the new recipe for "Partytime Pilsner" for $23.53:
RECIPE INCLUDES:
1 Grand Bohemian Czech Pilsner HME
1 Packet Dry Brewing Yeast (under lid of HME)
1 Pouch Booster™
1 Packet Saaz Pellet Hops
1 Packet No-Rinse Cleanser

Fortunately, I've got a stash so I don't need to buy the new ones anytime soon, until they get all the changes in place and review their pricing structure.

Since you highlighted the hops choice, I'll chime in that in my opinion, saaz hops are a much better choice for a Czech pilsner than amarillo. The cities of saaz and pilsen are just a few miles from each other and have passed between German and Czech control many times over the past few centuries. But saaz hops are the traditional hops for a pilsner.

The new refill is a bit smaller, but is also a little less expensive (although not on a per gram of LME basis).

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:blush: Oops, forgot the quote!

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"bpgreen" post=262279 said:


Since you highlighted the hops choice, I'll chime in that in my opinion, saaz hops are a much better choice for a Czech pilsner than amarillo. The cities of saaz and pilsen are just a few miles from each other and have passed between German and Czech control many times over the past few centuries. But saaz hops are the traditional hops for a pilsner.

Thank you for that information! You would know much more about hops than I do, but I'm learning as quick as I can! :) I highlighted it just to note there was a difference between the two formulations for the refill. I have no basis in my experience to know which is better, although I have noticed most pilsner recipes I've read do call for Saaz. Hops aside, my main concern is that the new refills will be too big to want to combine or mix two cans, and too small to get the flavor of the old refills. Grand Bohemian was the closest comparison I could find.

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I know this thread is mostly concerned with the Standard refills, but I was in my LHBS the other day and saw some Brewers Best Kits. I thought I would point this price comparison of two Pale Ale recipes out:

Mr Beer Santa Catalina Pale Ale
RECIPE INCLUDES:
1 Can American Ale HME
1 Can Classic American Light HME
2 Packets Dry Brewing Yeast (under lids of HME)
2 Packets Cascade Pellet Hops
1 Muslin Hop Sack
1 Packet No-Rinse Cleanser

Price is $36.63.

Brewers Best American Pale Ale (from homebrewersoutpost.com)
KITS INCLUDE:
Liquid malt extract (6.6 LB Light LME)
Specialty grains (1 LB Caramel 20)
Hops (2 oz bittering and 1.5 oz aroma)
Dry yeast
One muslin grain bag
Priming sugar
60 bottle caps

Price is $44.99

So, the Brewers Best kit is $9 more than the MB kit. But you get grains, priming sugar and bottle caps included in that kit. You don't get that with MB. Oh, I forgot to mention one other thing you get with the Brewers Best kit....3 more gallons of beer!!

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To be fair, you do spend an extra 90 minutes brewing that brewers best kit. So it depends on how much time is worth to you... That's why when I've been comparing I've been sticking with things like Muntons Gold kits.

That said, I'm not saying it's not worth spending the time if you have it and enjoy it. MoreBeer and Northern Brewer have many excellent kits that are also like the brewers best kit you quoted.

The last 4 brews I made, 2 were just plain extract batches (finishing off my woodforde kits), 1 was steep + extract w/hop boil, and 1 was BIAB PM with hop boil. When I do a BIAB/PM, I tend to brew it as a 5 gallon batch to make the extra time worth something. But sometimes I just don't have enough time to spend, and like convenience of a simple canned kit, maybe enhance it with a bit of malt and a short flavor/aroma hop boil. But still, I'd buy a muntons gold or woodforde kit before I bought one of these new Mr. Beer kits, unless they lower the price or offer individual flavors at a discount (bulk or not).

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Your right...that is a fair point on the time needed to brew. Time is important and it really has a price. So each one of us needs to figure out how much it really is worth. Good job adding that point into the equation mashani!!

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Can someone with a better memory than mine tell me the price of the old HME? Not the refill, just the can.

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I thought it was $9.95 for HME and $6.95 for UME. Don't take my memory as completely accurate, just as mostly accurate.

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BOTTOM Line;
You betta shop around!
Just like we've been doing as our obsession took hold of us.
Note to MR. B/C,
I would rather buy from them direct, but it;s not in my budget. The Club should give signif discount and I will do it, othrewise, gotta go elsewhere.
:gofish:

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"bpgreen" post=262430 said:

"Joechianti" post=262418 said:

I thought it was $9.95 for HME and $6.95 for UME. Don't take my memory as completely accurate, just as mostly accurate.


I couldn't remember so I asked the wayback machine:
http://web.archive.org/web/20110705104421/http://www.mrbeer.com/category-exec/category_id/87

This wayback machine is totally fascinating. I have to learn how to use it.

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"Joechianti" post=262503 said:

"bpgreen" post=262430 said:

"Joechianti" post=262418 said:

I thought it was $9.95 for HME and $6.95 for UME. Don't take my memory as completely accurate, just as mostly accurate.


I couldn't remember so I asked the wayback machine:
http://web.archive.org/web/20110705104421/http://www.mrbeer.com/category-exec/category_id/87

This wayback machine is totally fascinating. I have to learn how to use it.

You have to get a pet boy to help -
Mr. Peabody: "Sherman, set the WABAC machine to ..."

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"BlackDuck" post=262361 said:

Your right...that is a fair point on the time needed to brew. Time is important and it really has a price. So each one of us needs to figure out how much it really is worth. Good job adding that point into the equation mashani!!

Time is very important and my weekend is mine to do things I like to do, which happens to entail many things, one is brewing.

:chug:

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"alb" post=262516 said:

"Joechianti" post=262503 said:

"bpgreen" post=262430 said:

"Joechianti" post=262418 said:

I thought it was $9.95 for HME and $6.95 for UME. Don't take my memory as completely accurate, just as mostly accurate.


I couldn't remember so I asked the wayback machine:
http://web.archive.org/web/20110705104421/http://www.mrbeer.com/category-exec/category_id/87

This wayback machine is totally fascinating. I have to learn how to use it.

You have to get a pet boy to help -
Mr. Peabody: "Sherman, set the WABAC machine to ..."

Archive.org is a great resource. In addition to the wayback machine, it also has lots of public domain movies (including classics) and music from bands that allow recording.

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"bpgreen" post=262524 said:

"alb" post=262516 said:

"Joechianti" post=262503 said:

"bpgreen" post=262430 said:

"Joechianti" post=262418 said:

I thought it was $9.95 for HME and $6.95 for UME. Don't take my memory as completely accurate, just as mostly accurate.


I couldn't remember so I asked the wayback machine:
http://web.archive.org/web/20110705104421/http://www.mrbeer.com/category-exec/category_id/87

This wayback machine is totally fascinating. I have to learn how to use it.

You have to get a pet boy to help -
Mr. Peabody: "Sherman, set the WABAC machine to ..."

Archive.org is a great resource. In addition to the wayback machine, it also has lots of public domain movies (including classics) and music from bands that allow recording.

Outstanding, thanks bp.

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"bpgreen" post=262430 said:

"Joechianti" post=262418 said:

I thought it was $9.95 for HME and $6.95 for UME. Don't take my memory as completely accurate, just as mostly accurate.


I couldn't remember so I asked the wayback machine:
http://web.archive.org/web/20110705104421/http://www.mrbeer.com/category-exec/category_id/87

Thanks. So Joe's memory is correct.

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