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New Standard Refill prices.

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"gophers6" post=262549 said:

"bpgreen" post=262430 said:

"Joechianti" post=262418 said:

I thought it was $9.95 for HME and $6.95 for UME. Don't take my memory as completely accurate, just as mostly accurate.


I couldn't remember so I asked the wayback machine:
http://web.archive.org/web/20110705104421/http://www.mrbeer.com/category-exec/category_id/87

Thanks. So Joe's memory is correct.

Well, maybe my the old memory is still in better shape than I thought it was. Heck, I can still remember having teeth.

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Geez, I go away for a few days and all Heck breaks out. Have any of the people who got early testers had enough time to actually taste the new products? I'd like to know how they turned out.

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"TimeTraveler" post=262670 said:

Geez, I go away for a few days and all Heck breaks out. Have any of the people who got early testers had enough time to actually taste the new products? I'd like to know how they turned out.

Nope, brewed but not poured...

Probably start hearing in a month or so...

:)

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"TimeTraveler" post=262670 said:

Geez, I go away for a few days and all Heck breaks out. Have any of the people who got early testers had enough time to actually taste the new products? I'd like to know how they turned out.

Both my OG samples were very thin and very light tasting.

I am hoping the finish product is atleast as good as the old standard refill

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I have the American Ale & Patriot Lager going for over 24hrs. No krausen on the AA & a small one on the AL which is now gone. The brews are active & swirling around - fizzing a bit. The AA smelled funny, while the AL was more normal. We'll see. I plan to bottle in MR Beer 32oz PET bottles to get the full effect. :party:

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I haven't bought a refill directly from the sure in a long time, but I'm thinking the price increases aren't as drastic as we've been making them out to be.

Some time in the last half of 2010, the price of a standard refill increased from $12.95 to $15.95. There's still one of them available for $15.95, but most are now $17.95. That's only an increase of $2, and it's all malt with a decent amount of yeast.

Are they more than a comparable mix for a 5 gallon batch? Yes. But that had always been the case.

I can make a batch for a lot less than using a 5 gallon kit, also, whether using LME and hops or doing a partial mash or all grain.

I buy ingredients in bulk, so I get hops for less than a dollar an ounce (counting shipping), LME costs me $1.80/ lb and two row is about 80¢/lb.

But sometimes, I like to brew a batch in less than an hour. The only way to do that is with prehopped extracts (or those kits where you pour in the bag of wort and add yeast).

Mr beer kits are more expensive on a per beer basis than a lot of other options, but the whole selling point is that you can make a beer easily. In fact, if you look at the recipes on the site, you don't even boil hops or do any late additions of ingredients.

To get started with Mr beer, you can get a kit for as little as $39.99. Most 5 gallon kits will set you back over $100. The beer machine (TBM) is about $100.

So the initial outlay is a lot lower to get started with Mr beer.

TBM mixes are less than Mr beer refills (normal price is $32.95 for 3), but a quick check of the "other" beer thread will show that the odds of getting a good beer from one of those is a bit lower than from a Mr beer kit.

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+1 bpgreen
MrBeer never said it was the cheapest, just the easiest.

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BP, Scott, Have you taken a pencil to the new prices?
I figured up a typical brew for me using the old HME vs the new. I usually use a can of MB HME, bulk LME, steeping grains, hops, and 1/2 pack US-05 yeast. The steeping grains and hops should be the same old or new so I disregard them. Won't be buying yeast for the new because it's included.

Old System
1 can HME $9.95
1.8 lb LME @$2.67/lb $4.81
1/2 pack US-05 $1.88
Total $16.64

New System
1 can HME $17.95
1.1 lb LME @2.67/lb $2.94
Total $20.89

That's $4.25 more to make the same beer, a %25 increase.
Unless I'm missing something, I'd say that's a pretty drastic price increase.

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"gophers6" post=262852 said:

BP, Scott, Take off your Mr Beer colored glasses and start pushing a pencil.
I figured up a typical brew for me using the old HME vs the new. I usually use a can of MB HME, bulk LME, steeping grains, hops, and 1/2 pack US-05 yeast. The steeping grains and hops should be the same old or new so I disregard them. Won't be buying yeast for the new because it's included.

Old System New System
1 can HME $9.95 1 can HME $17.95
1.8 lb LME $4.81 1.1 lb LME $2.94
1/2 pack US-05 $1.88 No yeast $0
Total $16.64 Total $20.89

That's $4.25 more to make the same beer, a %25 increase.
Unless I'm missing something, I'd say that's a pretty drastic price increase.


Gopher, I know it's not popular to say anything negative, but I just thought the fact that they had a 25% price increase less than 2 years ago needed to be added to what you just said. This is at a time with historical low interest rates, during an awful recession, and my pay has been frozen for the past 2 years. 50% worth of price increases in less than 2 years? Heartwarming.

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"gophers6" post=262852 said:

BP, Scott, Take off your Mr Beer colored glasses and start pushing a pencil.
I figured up a typical brew for me using the old HME vs the new. I usually use a can of MB HME, bulk LME, steeping grains, hops, and 1/2 pack US-05 yeast. The steeping grains and hops should be the same old or new so I disregard them. Won't be buying yeast for the new because it's included.

Old System
1 can HME $9.95
1.8 lb LME @$2.67/lb $4.81
1/2 pack US-05 $1.88
Total $16.64

New System
1 can HME $17.95
1.1 lb LME @2.67/lb $2.94
Total $20.89

That's $4.25 more to make the same beer, a %25 increase.
Unless I'm missing something, I'd say that's a pretty drastic price increase.

Please reread my post. I didn't say there wasn't a price increase, just that it wasn't as significant as some are trying to portray it, at least not for a standard refill. If you're buying an HME and creating your own recipe using that as a base, then it's a bigger difference. But that's not really Mr Beer's target demographic.

If you're comparing the price of the old HME to the new HME, then it's a bigger difference than if you compare the price of the old standard refill with the new standard refill, the difference is not as big.

I don't really buy directly from the site, so it's not going to have any effect on me. I'll have to see what happens with clearance sales after holidays. I'm not sure I'd be buying a lot of prehopped kits of any sort going forward, anyway, because I do more from scratch, and by the fall, my hop bines should be producing enough that I'll have enough hops to make all my beer from scratch. And with LME at $1.80/lb and two row at $80c/lb, I can definitely save money making beer from scratch (since hops will be essentially free from now on).

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"Joechianti" post=262854 said:

"gophers6" post=262852 said:

BP, Scott, Take off your Mr Beer colored glasses and start pushing a pencil.
I figured up a typical brew for me using the old HME vs the new. I usually use a can of MB HME, bulk LME, steeping grains, hops, and 1/2 pack US-05 yeast. The steeping grains and hops should be the same old or new so I disregard them. Won't be buying yeast for the new because it's included.

Old System New System
1 can HME $9.95 1 can HME $17.95
1.8 lb LME $4.81 1.1 lb LME $2.94
1/2 pack US-05 $1.88 No yeast $0
Total $16.64 Total $20.89

That's $4.25 more to make the same beer, a %25 increase.
Unless I'm missing something, I'd say that's a pretty drastic price increase.


Gopher, I know it's not popular to say anything negative, but I just thought the fact that they had a 25% price increase less than 2 years ago needed to be added to what you just said. This is at a time with historical low interest rates, during an awful recession, and my pay has been frozen for the past 2 years. 50% worth of price increases in less than 2 years? Heartwarming.

Exactly. At Christmas 2010, the prices increased $3. Now the prices have increased another $2 or so. I haven't done an extract brew in a year or more so it doens't affect me at all, but it doesn't seem like a wise plan. And there is no way that that can is going to hit 3.7%, btw. Count on 3.2-3.3%. There just isn't enough extract there to hit their inflated number.

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"bpgreen" post=262860 said:

And with LME at $1.80/lb and two row at $80c/lb, I can definitely save money making beer from scratch (since hops will be essentially free from now on).

BP: please advise us where you are able to get those prices for LME & grains? I know you buy in bulk but those are still some great prices. TIA

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"PatBattle" post=262863 said:


Exactly. At Christmas 2010, the prices increased $3. Now the prices have increased another $2 or so. I haven't done an extract brew in a year or more so it doens't affect me at all, but it doesn't seem like a wise plan. And there is no way that that can is going to hit 3.7%, btw. Count on 3.2-3.3%. There just isn't enough extract there to hit their inflated number.

Well, just like you and BP, and so many others here, I feel like moving away from extract is an idea who's time has definitely arrived. I really enjoy the process, but often time is an issue, which is why I use extract at all now that I am able to brew without it.

As silly as it may sound, I believe that if you take the time and effort to make something yourself instead of just walking into a store and buying it, that you can expect to make it both better and cheaper. If I have to spend $30 plus time and effort to make a case of beer that I can walk into the store and get for the same price, then I don't think I would.

I can already here the cries of "blasphemy". Oh well. Half the reason I make beer is for the pleasure of making it and half is to save money. Cutting out half the reason you do something is significant.

That's where grains come in. I'm now headed where other intelligent brewers have all headed before me. Like BP said, the only time I'll be buying extract is when I find it at a deep discount. At regular price, it holds absolutely no appeal for me.

Even the double-sized Cooper's label hopped cans of malt with yeast, which now represent a way better deal than Mr B sized versions from the same producer, may be in for changes. My LHBS has had their supply cut off by the vendor. I'm afraid that move is just the beginning of something bigger. The malt extract market is not done being reorganized by Coopers. Buying Mr B was the beginning of the chess game, not the end.

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As soon as I get my immersion wort chiller, I will be doing exclusive 5 gallon extract batches and 2.5 gallon BIAB batches, thus eliminating my need for MrB extracts all-together. I was planning on doing this regardless of the price increase (the timing just happened to be coincidental). As others have mentioned, there is a time cost associated with using other liquid (unhopped) extracts, but I feel that I can make up for this cost by doubling the output (going from 2.13 gallons to 5 gallons). That is fine by me considering I always prefer to doctor up all of my batches anyways rather than brew extracts straight up (which negates the time benefit for these MrB batches). I'm sure that the business-savvy folks at MB/C are keeping a watchful eye on the success of their new pricing structure.

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"gophers6" post=262852 said:

BP, Scott, Have you taken a pencil to the new prices?
I figured up a typical brew for me using the old HME vs the new. I usually use a can of MB HME, bulk LME, steeping grains, hops, and 1/2 pack US-05 yeast. The steeping grains and hops should be the same old or new so I disregard them. Won't be buying yeast for the new because it's included.

Old System
1 can HME $9.95
1.8 lb LME @$2.67/lb $4.81
1/2 pack US-05 $1.88
Total $16.64

New System
1 can HME $17.95
1.1 lb LME @2.67/lb $2.94
Total $20.89

That's $4.25 more to make the same beer, a %25 increase.
Unless I'm missing something, I'd say that's a pretty drastic price increase.

To be fair, you might need to account for the "One-Step" that wasn't part of the old formula, but does factor into the new.

Perhaps if MrB/Coopers offers just the cans of HME, without yeast or "One Step", for a few dollars less, then things wouldn't look as bad. I would be more interested in getting the HME without the yeast or One-Step. Especially if it was between $3 or $4 dollars less.


Rick

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"rickbray66" post=262883 said:


Perhaps if MrB/Coopers offers just the cans of HME, without yeast or "One Step", for a few dollars less, then things wouldn't look as bad. I would be more interested in getting the HME without the yeast or One-Step. Especially if it was between $3 or $4 dollars less.Rick

This Coopers Boardroom in response to that, Rick:
[attachment=8024]coopers2.jpg[/attachment]
[attachment=8025]Coopersboardroom.jpg[/attachment]

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"T8r Salad" post=262871 said:

"bpgreen" post=262860 said:

And with LME at $1.80/lb and two row at $80c/lb, I can definitely save money making beer from scratch (since hops will be essentially free from now on).

BP: please advise us where you are able to get those prices for LME & grains? I know you buy in bulk but those are still some great prices. TIA

I buy my LME and two row at my lhbs: http://www.beernut.com. I get the grains 50 lbs at a time, but only pick up what I plan to be using in the near future. They store the rest and keep track of what I've used. When I run out, I buy more. The LME costs something like $2.50/lb if I buy less than 36 lbs at a time and $1.80 when I buy 36 lbs or more. I bring in my own container. I suspect that shipping charges would kill that deal for anybody outside of the Salt Lake City area.

I got 27.5 lbs of two row for $24.74 about a year ago from Austin Homebrew. They don't seem to have that deal now. I've seen bulk LME (usually 33 lbs/15 kg) online at a few places with flat shipping in the past, but don't have links because they were still more than what I pay.

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"T8r Salad" post=262887 said:

"rickbray66" post=262883 said:


Perhaps if MrB/Coopers offers just the cans of HME, without yeast or "One Step", for a few dollars less, then things wouldn't look as bad. I would be more interested in getting the HME without the yeast or One-Step. Especially if it was between $3 or $4 dollars less.Rick

This Coopers Boardroom in response to that, Rick:
[attachment=8024]coopers2.jpg[/attachment]
[attachment=8025]Coopersboardroom.jpg[/attachment]

I'm afraid that you're probably right.


Rick

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"rickbray66" post=262883 said:


To be fair, you might need to account for the "One-Step" that wasn't part of the old formula, but does factor into the new.

Perhaps if MrB/Coopers offers just the cans of HME, without yeast or "One Step", for a few dollars less, then things wouldn't look as bad. I would be more interested in getting the HME without the yeast or One-Step. Especially if it was between $3 or $4 dollars less.
Rick

Yes, this would be me as well. I buy my sanatizer in 5# buckets and I prefer to pick my own yeast (and I'm not a big fan of coopers yeast if that's what they are including).

The boardroom can LOL all they want. I can always buy really good quality UME from MoreBeer @2.60/# w/free shipping, supplement with some grains to steep or PM, and brew whatever the hell I want. I'd rather not have to spend the time on every batch of beer, but if I have to I will, and mix them in with Muntons Gold/Woodforde kits if I'm in a crunch.

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"mashani" post=262897 said:

The boardroom can LOL all they want. I can always buy really good quality UME from MoreBeer @2.60/# w/free shipping, supplement with some grains to steep or PM, and brew whatever the hell I want. I'd rather not have to spend the time on every batch of beer, but if I have to I will, and mix them in with Muntons Gold/Woodforde kits if I'm in a crunch.


I'm 100% in agreement with every word you just said, Dave, as I'm sure many here are. I just have one concern, and I pray I'm wrong. I think this could be more than an isolated event. It could be the tip of the iceberg and the beginning of a great shift in extract brewing at home. I fear that the purchase of Mr B by Coopers and the resulting price increase will have a domino effect. Next comes increases in Coopers labeled extract followed by increases in Muntons extract. Let's face it, they'd be fools not to. If Coopers doesn't raise prices on their own label, they'll be giving the kiss of death to THEIR Mr B label, and when Coopers raises the price on their own label, that opens the door for Muntons to raise their price and still be competitive, unless they just feel charitable. Anyone like to buy some beachfront property in Arizona?

[edit] - By the way, for those among us who have more experience with the hobby, I am very grateful to you for sharing your sources for more economical brewing ingredients, and i hope you continue to do so. It's not always just a matter of pride to find the cheapest prices. For some, it is a very real necessity. In my life, all pleasures beyond taking care of my family are on a "get it cheap or don't get it at all" basis. I deeply appreciate the help on finding deals. And I know for a fact that I'm not alone in that.

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"mashani" post=262897 said:

...I can always buy really good quality UME from MoreBeer @2.60/# w/free shipping, supplement with some grains to steep or PM, and brew whatever the hell I want....


Your post prompted me to visit morebeer.com. I didn't realize they had a free shipping program, and I found the following to be particularly interesting:

"Why should you buy Malt Extract from MoreBeer!? Because our extract is super fresh. We pick up extract every week so it never gets stale. When we open a drum we package the entire amount and we package in oxygen barrier foil bags that keep the extract from oxidizing. Does fresh extract make a difference ...decide for yourself!"

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Yeah, Joe, you may be right. With the increased popularity of home brewing over the past few years, we may be seeing more of the results of supply-and-demand across the board.

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"Joechianti" post=262902 said:

I think this could be more than an isolated event. It could be the tip of the iceberg and the beginning of a great shift in extract brewing at home. I fear that the purchase of Mr B by Coopers and the resulting price increase will have a domino effect. Next comes increases in Coopers labeled extract followed by increases in Muntons extract. Let's face it, they'd be fools not to. If Coopers doesn't raise prices on their own label, they'll be giving the kiss of death to THEIR Mr B label, and when Coopers raises the price on their own label, that opens the door for Muntons to raise their price and still be competitive, unless they just feel charitable.

Actually, unless they truly need to raise the costs due to increased productions costs, I would contend that Munton's would choose to undercut Cooper's if your scenario played out. If I were Munton's, that's what I'd do anyway. It's simple economics... disgruntled Cooper's customers would bypass the Cooper's cans on the shelf in favor of Munton's (or whatever other HME producer).

Which, IMHO, is why Cooper's isn't looking to raise their HME price in the LHBS. Mr. B (in most cases) is not sold in the LHBS, but rather general merchandise stores (Wally, Target, KMart, BB&B, Bass, etc.). Thus, the general consumer of Mr. B is not an LHBS customer and would never notice that the cost of the Mr. B can is only a few dollars short of the equivalent big Cooper's can. My theory is that Cooper's feels that they need to be competitive in the LHBS for their Cooper's branded products, but don't feel the same urgency to match the Mr. B to that pricing model. The only people who would notice and/or feel that sting are people who frequent an LHBS (either brick-and-mortar or online). And even old Mr. B was overpriced in that comparison, so it's really not new in that respect.

Of course, this is only theory and conjecture on my part. I could easily be talking poo...

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"OikoEco" post=262906 said:

Yeah, Joe, you may be right. With the increased popularity of home brewing over the past few years, we may be seeing more of the results of supply-and-demand across the board.


Precisely. I'm not just alarmed by one seemingly insignificant price increase. I'm alrmed by what I'm afraid is a huge shift in the landscape of extract brewing. Let's pray I'm wrong, or pray we all get real good at brewing without extracts. Well, without CANNED extracts, anyway. God willing, it won't domino into the fresh bulk extract market, too.

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I think swenocha hit it on the head. We need to remember the borg members are only a fraction of their market. Now that MB is bought by Coopers they are probably targetting more of the general public. Namely people who stroll by Walmart and see a MB kit on the shelf and tries to brew a batch every other month just for fun. Those people probably won't care too much about an extra $5 per batch.

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"packerduf" post=262905 said:

"mashani" post=262897 said:

...I can always buy really good quality UME from MoreBeer @2.60/# w/free shipping, supplement with some grains to steep or PM, and brew whatever the hell I want....


Your post prompted me to visit morebeer.com. I didn't realize they had a free shipping program, and I found the following to be particularly interesting:

"Why should you buy Malt Extract from MoreBeer!? Because our extract is super fresh. We pick up extract every week so it never gets stale. When we open a drum we package the entire amount and we package in oxygen barrier foil bags that keep the extract from oxidizing. Does fresh extract make a difference ...decide for yourself!"

I use the Pilsner extract from MoreBeer all the time in my patersbiers. It is always fresh like they say, it makes really good beer, it fermenents consistantly. It's why I have not bothered to do a PM or BIAB with any pilsner in it. I honestly don't think I'd get better results for the time spent.

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I think Swenocha may be right, at least in part. I also think the price rise may also be a not so subtle push to get Mr. B brewers to switch to Cooper's 5 gal. brew kits since they are only a few bucks more than the Mr. B cans.

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If they are starting to pull the Coopers big cans, then I guess its time to move on to the 5 gallon batches and say good bye MB.

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I haven't seen evidence of anyone pulling the cans at any LHBS I visit. Until I hear that from other LHBSs, I'll assume that Joe's LHBS has just decided to carry a different brand...

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True. One incident doesn't make a pattern. It could be purely a coincidence. Just my luck it had to be the one by my house. Time will tell if there's anything more to it.

Swen, is it just me, or are your posts cut off on the right side? It isn't happening with any other posts, but it is with all yours, at least here on my screen.

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I don't see anything cut off for me in Chrome. Perhaps my footer image is making things askew in other browsers. What browser you on, oh toothless one?

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"swenocha" post=262979 said:

I haven't seen evidence of anyone pulling the cans at any LHBS I visit. Until I hear that from other LHBSs, I'll assume that Joe's LHBS has just decided to carry a different brand...

We finally have a LHBS in my town. Stopped in today and talked to him about the Coopers extracts as he only had one on the shelf. He said they are out of stock of a lot of the flavors right now and almost everything is on backorder. He said it would be a couple weeks before he could get any more in, so I would bet it's more of a widespread shortage than people pulling them.

As an interesting aside, the owner of the LHBS name really is Joe...

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This sucks, i was gung ho about this. I just finished bottling beer # 4 and 5 with one in the LBK. I jump on to order more stuff and now everything's changed. One can brews! and expensive at that. looks like if u want to get creative, you better have big pockets. I hate to say it but If this is how the merger is going to be, I WILL find another Hobby!!!

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"Joechianti" post=262983 said:

Swen, is it just me, or are your posts cut off on the right side? It isn't happening with any other posts, but it is with all yours, at least here on my screen.

I think it's the photos added at the bottom. Same thing happened to me the other day when I posted some photos. ugh. :S

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"OikoEco" post=263014 said:

Supply and demand drives everything.


Then Cooper will find out that the demand for $18 3.5% refills isn't real high.

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"Jimbazo" post=263012 said:

This sucks, i was gung ho about this. I just finished bottling beer # 4 and 5 with one in the LBK. I jump on to order more stuff and now everything's changed. One can brews! and expensive at that. looks like if u want to get creative, you better have big pockets. I hate to say it but If this is how the merger is going to be, I WILL find another Hobby!!!

Jim,
I was frustrated and disappointed,too. But we don't have to find a new hobby. Just new sources of affordable ingredients. Have you seen all the sources that everyone has been sharing here today? We'll all make it.

[EDIT] - Heck, Austin Homebrew still has 2 types of Coopers HME in 3.75 lb cans with yeast for $18.95. Exactly double the new Mr B standard ones for $17.95.

And Amazon still has several of them around $1 or $2 more, with free shipping, no less.

Break these in half and you got two standard Mr B refills made by Coopers for about $10 to $11 each. Life is still good, as long as Coopers don't jack with those large ones next.

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"If they are starting to pull the Coopers big cans, then I guess its time to move on to the 5 gallon batches and say good bye MB"

I have to agree, cause I thought it was expensive enough before the prices went up

Jim

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"Joechianti" post=263018 said:

"Jimbazo" post=263012 said:

This sucks, i was gung ho about this. I just finished bottling beer # 4 and 5 with one in the LBK. I jump on to order more stuff and now everything's changed. One can brews! and expensive at that. looks like if u want to get creative, you better have big pockets. I hate to say it but If this is how the merger is going to be, I WILL find another Hobby!!!

Jim,
I was frustrated and disappointed,too. But we don't have to find a new hobby. Just new sources of affordable ingredients. Have you seen all the sources that everyone has been sharing here today? We'll all make it.

[EDIT] - Heck, Austin Homebrew still has 2 types of Coopers HME in 3.75 lb cans with yeast for $18.95. Exactly double the new Mr B standard ones for $17.95.

And Amazon still has several of them around $1 or $2 more, with free shipping, no less.

Break these in half and you got two standard Mr B refills made by Coopers for about $10 to $11 each. Life is still good, as long as Coopers don't jack with those large ones next.

Are these coopers 3.75# cans hopped for 5 gallons? If you divide those in half for a LBK you end up with the same amount of malt as the new mr beer refils, just cheaper.

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"pete rose haircut" post=263023 said:

"Joechianti" post=263018 said:

"Jimbazo" post=263012 said:

This sucks, i was gung ho about this. I just finished bottling beer # 4 and 5 with one in the LBK. I jump on to order more stuff and now everything's changed. One can brews! and expensive at that. looks like if u want to get creative, you better have big pockets. I hate to say it but If this is how the merger is going to be, I WILL find another Hobby!!!

Jim,
I was frustrated and disappointed,too. But we don't have to find a new hobby. Just new sources of affordable ingredients. Have you seen all the sources that everyone has been sharing here today? We'll all make it.

[EDIT] - Heck, Austin Homebrew still has 2 types of Coopers HME in 3.75 lb cans with yeast for $18.95. Exactly double the new Mr B standard ones for $17.95.

And Amazon still has several of them around $1 or $2 more, with free shipping, no less.

Break these in half and you got two standard Mr B refills made by Coopers for about $10 to $11 each. Life is still good, as long as Coopers don't jack with those large ones next.

Are these coopers 3.75# cans hopped for 5 gallons? If you divide those in half for a LBK you end up with the same amount of malt as the new mr beer refils, just cheaper.


Yes, they are hopped for 5 gallons. But, they would have the same problem as the 1.87 lb cans, still being a bit light on malt, so yo'd still add, just like the new MB stuff. But I'd rather add a little malt or booster to a $11 HME than to a $18 HME that was the same exact size. Also, AHS has 2 kinds of booster, one supposed to be a Mr B clone and the other their own formula, and each is $2.

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Technically, these kits are for 6 gallon batches, so you would need to add 2lb of DME (or booster, or whatever) to get to 6 gallons (according to their directions). If you were splitting a six gallon extract between two 2ish gallon fermenters (and thus 4ish gallons), you really wouldn't require additional malt (unless you wanted it). Or, you could actually split it to three fermenters and add maybe 2/3lb of DME (or whatever) to each. Unless I'm not thinking through this correctly... I'm sure I could do that math, but math is hard, so I'll leave that to someone else... ;)

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Swen,

I'll do your math if you'll do my science. lol

[uPDATE]
Now that I can see the right side of your posts, I'd say your math is fine. If they claim it makes 6 gallons with 2 lbs added sugar, then you could make three 2 gallon batches with 2/3 lb sugar added to each, or you could make two 2 gallon batches and probably add nothing, exactly as you calculated.

I'm figuring that can split in half will make a very nice LBK batch about exactly like the can of new Mr B HME. If you don't add sugar or malt, it's a bit light, and if you do add, it can be a bit heavier.

I plan to get me some of those 3.75 lb cans before they raise the price on those, as well.

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See, now IE... that's your problem... ;)

Looks like the image is the issue in IE. *poof* no more image...

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Not me! I'm a Mac girl! ;)

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As a manager of web developers, I can safely say that IE is the bane of my team's existence. We spend so much time mashing code around to work with IE, when the code simply works in FFox and Chrome. Sigh...

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IDK... saw the images on my phone earlier; all gone now swen :ohmy:

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Guest System Admin

Replaced my leaky water heater tonight and saw 38 new messages on this thread. It was a great read. As I've stated before the move to PM and steeped extract batches has been made for me by pure economics. Look out DME mart your best customers are coming from the Borg. My LHBS is going to see me every weekend now, and my wife is getting me the barley mill for fathers day. MB/C hope u are reading this thread.

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"swenocha" post=263053 said:

As a manager of web developers, I can safely say that IE is the bane of my team's existence. We spend so much time mashing code around to work with IE, when the code simply works in FFox and Chrome. Sigh...

Yeah I live in that world too. I think the upcomming versions of IE will put this to rest. Finally.

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"stevecon" post=263062 said:

Replaced my leaky water heater tonight and saw 38 new messages on this thread. It was a great read. As I've stated before the move to PM and steeped extract batches has been made for me by pure economics. Look out DME mart your best customers are coming from the Borg. My LHBS is going to see me every weekend now, and my wife is getting me the barley mill for fathers day. MB/C hope u are reading this thread.


I doubt they read these posts. They just read the balance sheet..

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"PrivateJoker" post=263083 said:


I doubt they read these posts. They just read the balance sheet..

Sigh....I was going to hold off on commenting until I brewed the beer and had something to add besides speculation or torch lighting but comments like this really irritate me.

Diane (for one) does read the boards and has been in recently to comment. She also noted that she WILL be more visible again.

I'm also a bit disappointed at all the speculation and assumptions/jumping the gun going on. Most of the folks here have staunchly defended not only the MrB products in the past, but the customer service and their overall willingness to do the right thing. Now, the moment that something isn't 100% perfect the pitchforks come out and suddenly MrB is a money-grubbing entity that doesn't care about it's customers. It's akin to a fair-weather fan in my book.

Don;t get me wrong, I'm not saying that anybody should simply sit back and accept a price hike with a smile and be blindly loyal. What I am saying is that things are still in the early stages and it's both premature and a bit of a mob mentality to pile on with comments out of left field.

In my opinion, it's fine to say that you're not happy with the price hike and are thinking about moving to different options. That's normal. It's another thing, in my opinion, to add comments about them not caring, trying to gouge people, etc. They have always been a good company to deal with and I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt to see how things shake out in the coming months.

If the current prices stand will I be buying refills at full price? No.
Do I think they've all sold out and are now the devil? No.

I guess I view this as a transition period where there may be some growing pains and I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt based on prior interactions with them. They will either right the ship if they feel it needs it, or they won't and some people will leave. That's expected.

When Netflix raised their rates by 60% with no change in service, I waited to see what would happen and then went to Blockbuster because it was a bit cheaper and to vote with my wallet. I didn't do it the day it was announced as I wanted to see how the public would react and how the company would treat that. Once a final direction was settled on, I made my choice.

I think we take this hobby very passionately and that's a good thing. I think we also make some emotional decisions and comments that are unwarranted.

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"gophers6" post=263017 said:

"OikoEco" post=263014 said:

Supply and demand drives everything.


Then Cooper will find out that the demand for $18 3.5% refills isn't real high.

We shall see. I hope you're right.

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I don't see $17.95 as an issue for something so easy as opening a can and having a case of beer a month later. If the new refills end up being nasty (which I highly doubt because they are now all malt) then maybe that will change my mind.

People have, correctly, pointed out that the new refills do not lend themselves to the type of experimentation with HME/UME combinations and that the cost difference when adding specialty yeast or DME/LME is comparatively higher with the new HMEs versus the old. However, Mr. Beer/Coopers does not receive that money, spending that money is our choice not based on the desire of Mr. Beer/Coopers.

Keep in mind, the only fair comparison when looking at the new price is between the old kit and the new kit. The new kit is the same ABV as the old kit with 100% malt content and 2.5 times the yeast. Is that not worth 2 dollars when the results should be a tastier beer which requires less conditioning time.

For those who mention doing their own hop boils and/or LME/DME/UME additions. Aren't the new kits cheaper than throwing out the booster and adding malt to make a better beer, which a lot of you were doing?

Mr. Beer has made an effort to improve their base product. I have wondered how many people brew that first batch of WCPA or other standard refill that came bundled in their Mr. Beer kit and never brewed again because of the neasty cidery effects of the booster? Having a higher quality base refill just makes sense to me and, clearly, to Mr. Beer/Coopers as well.

I started brewing with Mr. Beer a mere 4 months ago, but I have a lot of fun and about 19 different brew in various stages of completion to show for it. I have started doing some slightly more complex things like crystal malt steeps, true lagering, and hop boils, but that is probably a natural transition as the imminent all grain brewing switch approaches.

Despite my desire to do more complicated things with brewing, I see the value of what Mr. Beer is offering for the quick, mix with water and brew technique. With the new kits, they have made the process even easier and created a product somewhere between their old "standard" and "deluxe" refill with a price that seems reasonable for what you get.

I also agree with Kealia, no need to malign the company for the new kits. You can influence Mr. Beer's decisions to the largest extent with your wallet. This community site is also a place for feedback, but that feedback is probably better received when carefully thought out and not full of hyperbole. And rdwahahb!

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First of all, Mr Beer is NO more, it is now Coopers. This transition did NOT just happen, the transaction came about months ago, probably 6-12 months to guess. All of our thoughts ARE well thought out just as yours was. Don't criticize us for OUR opinion when we can let YOUR opinions count. Mr Beer sold out their company to Coopers and now Coopers has to deal with us as Old Mr Beer customers. If we don't like what we are seeing or getting, we can & WILL move down the road, pass them up and go do business with other companies (i.e. LHBS, AHS, NB...) and Coopers will lose out out on a lot of our business that they should have tried a little harder to keep. I am a small business owner and it is easier & cheaper to keep a customer than it is to gain new customers.

Kealia states: Now, the moment that something isn't 100% perfect the pitchforks come out and suddenly MrB is a money-grubbing entity that doesn't care about it's customers. It's akin to a fair-weather fan in my book. No it's not, we are hard-working cold-cash paying customers & Coopers is the money-grubbing entity, not Mr Beer (they did get their money though from Coopers, I am sure.

In my opinion, it's fine to say that you're not happy with the price hike and are thinking about moving to different options. That's normal. It's another thing, in my opinion, to add comments about them not caring, trying to gouge people, etc. What is it called then?
They have always been a good company to deal with and I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt to see how things shake out in the coming months. Mr Beer WAS. Coopers should have thought this through a little bit more then cuz we NEED refills now not in the coming months (2-3?)

If the current prices stand will I be buying refills at full price? No.Totally agree
Do I think they've all sold out and are now the devil? No. No but they are Aussie ya know!!! :evil:

I expected a hell of a lot better & more from this whole transition and so has a lot of other borg members. We have all lost a little here and that is not good for us or Coopers. Hindsight is 20/20 but better foresight should have been expected so I did not have to write an essay in response to your essay.
Now it must be 5 o'clock somewhere so I can RDWHAHB. :charlie:

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"Kealia" post=263120 said:

"PrivateJoker" post=263083 said:


I doubt they read these posts. They just read the balance sheet..

Sigh....I was going to hold off on commenting until I brewed the beer and had something to add besides speculation or torch lighting but comments like this really irritate me.

Diane (for one) does read the boards and has been in recently to comment. She also noted that she WILL be more visible again.

I'm also a bit disappointed at all the speculation and assumptions/jumping the gun going on. Most of the folks here have staunchly defended not only the MrB products in the past, but the customer service and their overall willingness to do the right thing. Now, the moment that something isn't 100% perfect the pitchforks come out and suddenly MrB is a money-grubbing entity that doesn't care about it's customers. It's akin to a fair-weather fan in my book.

Don;t get me wrong, I'm not saying that anybody should simply sit back and accept a price hike with a smile and be blindly loyal. What I am saying is that things are still in the early stages and it's both premature and a bit of a mob mentality to pile on with comments out of left field.

In my opinion, it's fine to say that you're not happy with the price hike and are thinking about moving to different options. That's normal. It's another thing, in my opinion, to add comments about them not caring, trying to gouge people, etc. They have always been a good company to deal with and I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt to see how things shake out in the coming months.

If the current prices stand will I be buying refills at full price? No.
Do I think they've all sold out and are now the devil? No.

I guess I view this as a transition period where there may be some growing pains and I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt based on prior interactions with them. They will either right the ship if they feel it needs it, or they won't and some people will leave. That's expected.

When Netflix raised their rates by 60% with no change in service, I waited to see what would happen and then went to Blockbuster because it was a bit cheaper and to vote with my wallet. I didn't do it the day it was announced as I wanted to see how the public would react and how the company would treat that. Once a final direction was settled on, I made my choice.

I think we take this hobby very passionately and that's a good thing. I think we also make some emotional decisions and comments that are unwarranted.

Yeah they read this forum, I made a comment in the summer seasonal thread about having a detached ligiment & being off work for 6 weeks.

The next day I recieved a PM from Mike Bernstein expressing his condolences for my injury & the financial hardships it has caused.
I was shocked to say the least.

As far as the new kits & prices are concerned, if the 20% discount is still in effect on the bundles I plan on buying all 10 of them after I get back to work, I figure even after adding malt or adjuncts I will come in under $20 per brew.

That should get me well into fall & as my time & weekends become more free I was planing on moving on to five gallon batches at that time anyways.

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+1 to the sigh.

We shouldn't be going after each other now. That's even worse than going after Coopers.

Hey, people will vent off their frustrations. Maybe we got the facts right and maybe we got the facts wrong. Time will tell. Maybe.

I admit I'm one of the folks who was highly disappointed by the changes. When I heard that Coopers was going to cut out the third party producer and make the extract themselves, I thought how great that they would lower the cost of production. Then when I heard they would streamline the standard and deluxe refills into one line, I thought how great they could reduce administrative expenses by doing that. Then when I heard that they were going to streamline the packaging, I thought it was so great that costs would come down for that too.

Then when I saw 1100 grams of HME in 2 cans for $17.95 being converted into one 850 gram can of HME for $17.95, I thought what the heck happened to all those cost savings?

I was so naive that I thought they had found a way to make more profit by means of efficiency and that meant that the prices could stay the same and they still made more money.

I guess I'm not mad at them. I'm mad at myself for being so stupid.

I hate myself.

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"Joechianti" post=263148 said:

I hate myself.

I think everyone hates them self to some extent, hence the need for beer.

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"Kealia" post=263120 said:

"PrivateJoker" post=263083 said:


I doubt they read these posts. They just read the balance sheet..

Diane (for one) does read the boards and has been in recently to comment. She also noted that she WILL be more visible.

Thanks Kealia... Your comments are right on, and Diane did in fact indicate her desire to be more active in the forum.

Further to the topic, I personally observed an account by the name of 'MrBeerCEO' lurking around about four or so evenings ago... At the same time as when I posted the thread below entitled: So what would you pay for the new HME's'.

http://community.mrbeer.com/forum/12-community-drain-pipe/262097-so-what-would-you-pay-for-the-new-hme-s

Therefore, I believe they are concerned with our opinions and have been reviewing the 'chatter'.

They have the right to run their business as they see fit, but I do believe that they are also interested in the market feedback, as any quality business should be!

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"Joechianti" post=263148 said:

I guess I'm not mad at them. I'm mad at myself for being so stupid. I hate myself.

Remember JoeC...hate the game not the player!

In my younger days, HATE meant: Have Another Toke, Ese!!!

My remarks were not an attack on any one person but the company for their greed (hey, aren't all big corps greedy).

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"BigPapaG" post=263158 said:

Further to the topic, I personally observed an account by the name of 'MrBeerCEO' lurking around about four or so evenings ago...

MrBeerCEO was lurking today also.

EDIT....By the way, MrBeerCEO was in red, so that was the Site Administrator.

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I see that MrBeerCEO has been registered on the forum since March 2009 but has never made a post. Probably just shy by nature. Easy to understand. I'm that way, myself.

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I guess that I am one of the few but I do this to relax and enjoy so a couple of bucks one way or the other is not a big deal. Even when I would use Mr. B kits, I use 3 can of something or add dme and upgrade the yeast. If the new can gives you enough yeast and I don't buy extra then I am not spending any more. :stout:

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"Joechianti" post=263177 said:

I see that MrBeerCEO has been registered on the forum since March 2009 but has never made a post. Probably just shy by nature. Easy to understand. I'm that way, myself.

Joe shy.........Reeeeeeeeeealeeeeeeee? :lol:

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"T8r Salad" post=263161 said:

"Joechianti" post=263148 said:

I guess I'm not mad at them. I'm mad at myself for being so stupid. I hate myself.

Remember JoeC...hate the game not the player!

In my younger days, HATE meant: Have Another Toke, Ese!!!

My remarks were not an attack on any one person but the company for their greed (hey, aren't all big corps greedy).

Let me have an Amen.....AMEN

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Since I have till late July till my next brew club,I have some time to see how things play out. However I had some ideas for Mr.Coopers that might help out and wanted to see what you all think.

1st. Use your considerable resources to create HME`s as close to the original as possible,put them in the same size can,with same size yeast at same price. Then do that with the UME`s.Result, Over 100 recipes available again although they may taste a little different.

Since supply shouldn`t be a problem anymore,pull all the old recipes out of archive. Now 200 recipe choices.

2nd.Use a pull down menu when it comes to yeast to give a CHOICE if you want the larger size for a bit more.

3rd. On all recipes that have booster,use the pull down to give a choice to substitute the right amount and type of DME for a few dollars more.

Change is good but I think choice is better. I would like to see Mr.Beer do well and see its users continue to use them.

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"aces 2" post=263381 said:

Since I have till late July till my next brew club,I have some time to see how things play out. However I had some ideas for Mr.Coopers that might help out and wanted to see what you all think.

1st. Use your considerable resources to create HME`s as close to the original as possible,put them in the same size can,with same size yeast at same price. Then do that with the UME`s.Result, Over 100 recipes available again although they may taste a little different.

Since supply shouldn`t be a problem anymore,pull all the old recipes out of archive. Now 200 recipe choices.

2nd.Use a pull down menu when it comes to yeast to give a CHOICE if you want the larger size for a bit more.

3rd. On all recipes that have booster,use the pull down to give a choice to substitute the right amount and type of DME for a few dollars more.

Change is good but I think choice is better. I would like to see Mr.Beer do well and see its users continue to use them.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Your ideas sound great to me, as a customer, but would probably be a nightmare to execute, for a business. I just have a hunch that too many products (redundancy) makes for too many headaches and drags down efficiency of profits, from a business point-of-view, as opposed to a customer point-of-view. That's a balance that almost every business has to work out, I figure.

I would have been satisfied if they just streamlined the manufacturing, packaging and marketing processes to extract more income even at the existing price levels. That would have been a great achievement and identified Cooper's/Mr Beer as a truly great company. IMHO, they took the less creative, lazier path of simple price hikes to increase their income. The changes they made seem like smoke and mirror to me, but I may be a delusional idiot for all I know. I'm open-minded about that.

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"T8r Salad" post=263161 said:

"Joechianti" post=263148 said:

I guess I'm not mad at them. I'm mad at myself for being so stupid. I hate myself.

Remember JoeC...hate the game not the player!

In my younger days, HATE meant: Have Another Toke, Ese!!!

My remarks were not an attack on any one person but the company for their greed (hey, aren't all big corps greedy).

They say hops are related to Mary Jane...

:silly:

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The cost of the cans is one thing, But these NEW Recipe prices are UFB!

:shoot: :think:

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"ZiggyZag" post=263437 said:

The cost of the cans is one thing, But these NEW Recipe prices are UFB!

:shoot: :think:

Like I said before, they desperately need a line of smaller sized HMEs to add to these standards to build recipes around. 2 of these standards is overkill for many types of beer and makes the cost insane based on their current pricing. Just as 1 of these cans is underkill for many types of beer if you want them to be to style. The amount of malt they chose to put in those cans is simply unfortunate for many kinds of beer.

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"ZiggyZag" post=263434 said:

"T8r Salad" post=263161 said:

"Joechianti" post=263148 said:

I guess I'm not mad at them. I'm mad at myself for being so stupid. I hate myself.

Remember JoeC...hate the game not the player!

In my younger days, HATE meant: Have Another Toke, Ese!!!

My remarks were not an attack on any one person but the company for their greed (hey, aren't all big corps greedy).

They say hops are related to Mary Jane...

:silly:

You'd be correct in that assumption.

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"mashani" post=263448 said:

"ZiggyZag" post=263437 said:

The cost of the cans is one thing, But these NEW Recipe prices are UFB!

:shoot: :think:

Like I said before, they desperately need a line of smaller sized HMEs to add to these standards to build recipes around. 2 of these standards is overkill for many types of beer and makes the cost insane based on their current pricing. Just as 1 of these cans is underkill for many types of beer if you want them to be to style. The amount of malt they chose to put in those cans is simply unfortunate for many kinds of beer.

Well where were you when they were asking their customers what would work best for the customer? That's when we needed you and many others who could have advised them better, apparently, then whoever they did consult with.

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"Joechianti" post=263453 said:

"mashani" post=263448 said:

"ZiggyZag" post=263437 said:

The cost of the cans is one thing, But these NEW Recipe prices are UFB!

:shoot: :think:

Like I said before, they desperately need a line of smaller sized HMEs to add to these standards to build recipes around. 2 of these standards is overkill for many types of beer and makes the cost insane based on their current pricing. Just as 1 of these cans is underkill for many types of beer if you want them to be to style. The amount of malt they chose to put in those cans is simply unfortunate for many kinds of beer.

Well where were you when they were asking their customers what would work best for the customer? That's when we needed you and many others who could have advised them better, apparently, then whoever they did consult with.

The thing is that they did ask. People always complained that that the Booster screwed up the refill and that they'd have much happier customers if they didn't start people with a high adjunct beer right off the bat. And I'm pretty sure they had surveys where people sayd they'd pay a bit more for a larger can and no extract.

It seems to me that the problem is that they're giving us what we said we wanted (better refill at a higher price) instead of what we really wanted (better refill at a lower price).

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Well I sure got thrown off on the wrong track by the massive efforts demonstrated to no end on all the ways to make a better beer while streamlining the cost. Harvesting yeast, using grains, shopping for sales, placing larger orders to reduce shipping costs, etc. etc.

Then all of a sudden they ask what's important to us and we say we want to pay more? Now I truly am confused.

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Nobody SAID they wanted to pay more.

What everybody said was "include more yeast" and "get rid of Booster". They did that. You can't expect them to upgrade things and have that not affect cost.

I still think it's too early to be making final decisions on anything.

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"Joechianti" post=263467 said:

Well I sure got thrown off on the wrong track by the massive efforts demonstrated to no end on all the ways to make a better beer while streamlining the cost. Harvesting yeast, using grains, shopping for sales, placing larger orders to reduce shipping costs, etc. etc.

Then all of a sudden they ask what's important to us and we say we want to pay more? Now I truly am confused.


I'm sure costs will now be streamlined as you previously pointed out Joe. It looks though as Coopers is passing the $$ it cost to obtain MB name and intern is passing that on to the MB customers.

I can't get past the fact that the same product which is double the size is only a $1 more. Yes you have to buy booster or DME, but well within the $16 you would save.

If they would reduce the little cans by 10% I wouldnt be so put out by the increase. (I think people previously posted costs went up 16% from the old kits).

Has anyone tried a Coopers beer yet? If it's crap then we got a bigger issue then the price increase. (I won't know for another month until the Australian Pale Ale is ready)

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"PrivateJoker" post=263482 said:

Has anyone tried a Coopers beer yet?

I haven't tried any of the Coopers extracts yet, but have been wanting to for awhile, even before they bought Mr B. This could be a really good time to take the plunge and see how I like it. I think I've heard others here say they liked the coopers extract. Can hardly recall anyone say they didn't like it.

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Concerning the prices, I would not be surprised to find the price rise is in part to cover the purchase price of Mr. B by Cooper's. I suspect it covers that as well as a shove toward brewing full 5 gal. Cooper's mixes. If enough folks change to 5 gal. (which I won't due to space considerations), they can drop the smaller cans.

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Why would they want to do that when MrB target market is the beginning brewer?

The allure here is that it takes little space & little time & equipment to brew a small batch of beer.

I'm guessing that a lot of us wouldn't have gotten into brewing at all if our only options at the time were 5 gallons - regardless of the cost.

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"Kealia" post=263489 said:

...I'm guessing that a lot of us wouldn't have gotten into brewing at all if our only options at the time were 5 gallons - regardless of the cost.


TRUE DAT! B)

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Perhaps you would not have gotten into it at 5 gal., maybe you would if it was the only choice. There is the economics of scale involved. It is more economical to make just one size that sells sufficiently to knock off the cost to produce the smaller-sized version. Of course, if enough people buy the smaller and less economical size, Cooper's will continue to make them because they make more money off of them - just look at the different sizes of cereal boxes, detergents, etc., to see what I mean. It all depends on the quantity of sales they make.

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I absolutely do believe that Mr B and the LBK sized-batch and the simple extract method has indeed gotten people into brewing beer who who most likely never had gotten into it otherwise, including myself.

That has not escaped me at all. Nor has the fact that they have been very very good to their customers in the past.

We're all human, and we all make mistakes. I just think we're witnessing one right now is all.

Not for nothing, but I feel like I've been airlifted smack down into the center of Bizzare-O Land.

How can anyone say with a straight face that they did us a favor by providing a refill with 850 grams of malt that is hopped with no booster for $17.95, when we ALREADY had a refill with 1100 grams of malt that is hopped with no booster for the very same price?

Oh yes, I forgot. We have that extra 3 grams of yeast to replace that 250 grams of malt extract. Yeast that I've bought at $1.50 for 7 grams. My bad.

And the most amazing part of it all is that somehow we ASKED for a non-booster refill with LESS MALT for the SAME PRICE as the one we ALREADY HAD before. At least that's what I've been told.

Hey, I'm not really a bad person. Just don't lie to me and I'm so easy to get along with. Of course, in some countries, if they don't like the truth, they just kill the person that's telling the truth and then they all live comfortably with the lie.

In a nutshell, I love Mr Beer, not too sure about Coopers, definitely hate lies.

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"Joechianti" post=263507 said:

How can anyone say with a straight face that they did us a favor by providing a refill with 850 grams of malt that is hopped with no booster for $17.95, when we ALREADY had a refill with 1100 grams of malt that is hopped with no booster for the very same price?

Oh yes, I forgot. We have that extra 3 grams of yeast to replace that 250 grams of malt extract. Yeast that I've bought at $1.50 for 7 grams. My bad.

Couldn't that same argument be used for the old deluxe refill versus the premium refill? Both refills had 1100 grams of malt. So why then was the premium $2 more than the deluxe? Could it be that the premium had more yeast? 2 grams of yeast on the MrB site goes for $0.95, so perhaps that counts for part of the difference, while being 2 cans of HME could account for the other part.

And to be fair, you probably should calculate the cost of buying 7 grams of yeast from MrB and not another source. Then it's a true fair comparison.


Rick

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"rickbray66" post=263514 said:

"Joechianti" post=263507 said:

How can anyone say with a straight face that they did us a favor by providing a refill with 850 grams of malt that is hopped with no booster for $17.95, when we ALREADY had a refill with 1100 grams of malt that is hopped with no booster for the very same price?

Oh yes, I forgot. We have that extra 3 grams of yeast to replace that 250 grams of malt extract. Yeast that I've bought at $1.50 for 7 grams. My bad.

Couldn't that same argument be used for the old deluxe refill versus the premium refill? Both refills had 1100 grams of malt. So why then was the premium $2 more than the deluxe? Could it be that the premium had more yeast? 2 grams of yeast on the MrB site goes for $0.95, so perhaps that counts for part of the difference, while being 2 cans of HME could account for the other part.

And to be fair, you probably should calculate the cost of buying 7 grams of yeast from MrB and not another source. Then it's a true fair comparison.


Rick

Hme has always been more expensive than ume, at least on the Mr beer site.

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I'm considered a beginner, and don't really see myself ever going to 5 gallon fermenter. I'll prob do BIAB and PM brewing with extracts and hop boils. I like my LBK's, all 4 of them. I have over 30 refills of MB mostly premium refills at that. I have to agree with the points that Joe make in his post above. I don't see myself buying any of the new refills unless it is a fire sale. I really like MB and the people that work there, however, their new price structure is a little over the top, and I'm sure it wasn't because MB wanted it that way. Remember who bought who. I'm an older guy and have seen what has happened in the business world over several decades. To put it mildly, businesses are the ones calling the shots these days at all levels in our society. Big business is all about short term ROI, no longer do they look for long term investment. It is all about give me money now or "show me the money" as in a famous movie. I've seen the end user or we could call the 99% get hammered over and over in the last 20-30 years. This hammering has been subtle, but constant for years. This to me is just another tap of the hammer. This occurs all the time in all industries. Anyways I'll get off the box now.

By the way did I tell you that Dechutes has a killer summer seasonal called Red Chair NWPA. I'd advise anyone to get them if they are available in your area.

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"ZiggyZag" post=263434 said:

"T8r Salad" post=263161 said:

"Joechianti" post=263148 said:

I guess I'm not mad at them. I'm mad at myself for being so stupid. I hate myself.

Remember JoeC...hate the game not the player!

In my younger days, HATE meant: Have Another Toke, Ese!!!

My remarks were not an attack on any one person but the company for their greed (hey, aren't all big corps greedy).

They say hops are related to Mary Jane...

:silly:


They are...I remember hopping Mary Jane a coupla times in my hay-day. :banana:

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"T8r Salad" post=263544 said:

"ZiggyZag" post=263434 said:

"T8r Salad" post=263161 said:

"Joechianti" post=263148 said:

I guess I'm not mad at them. I'm mad at myself for being so stupid. I hate myself.

Remember JoeC...hate the game not the player!

In my younger days, HATE meant: Have Another Toke, Ese!!!

My remarks were not an attack on any one person but the company for their greed (hey, aren't all big corps greedy).

They say hops are related to Mary Jane...

:silly:


They are...I remember hopping Mary Jane a coupla times in my hay-day. :banana:
I remember her she was all hopped up and a lot of fun.
:banana:

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I was looking at the new recipes and noticed that the Dark Forest Stout is actually a good deal. For $17.95 you get the standard St Patricks IS refill and a pack of booster and a can of raspberries. You are getting the booster and raspberries free. The raspberry wheat recipe is basically the same and is $7 more.

Dark Forest Stout

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It looks like they drop the recipe prices 15% from what they originally posted! When I was looking at the LBK IPA it was listed at about 45$ now it is just over 38. I could be imagining it though.

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I'm not saying that prices didn't change - that's not up for debate, it's a fact.

What I'm saying is that nobody has tasted the new refills and the dust hasn't even settled on the releases/updates (nor has the full product line been announced) so it's premature to start throwing fits.

Provide feedback on prices, yes. Scream and yell about what they owe us, etc., no. If these 'basic' refills turn out to make really good beer at this price. I'll be happy. I don't chase ABV so I don't really care if the beer is 3.7% if it tastes good. If it's thin and weak and is going to require some additional malt, etc. THEN there's some discussion to be had.

It's possible to provide good feedback without going overboard, that's all I'm saying.

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"pete rose haircut" post=263524 said:

Hme has always been more expensive than ume, at least on the Mr beer site.

That is true, and a variable that should be factored into all sides of the debate.

If we look at the previous Deluxe Refill, it breaks down like this:

1 can of HME @ $9.95 + 1 can of UME @ $6.95 = $16.90 Cost of Malt
$17.95 - $16.90 = $1.05 Remaining
$1.05 - $0.95 (Cost of One-Step) = $0.10 Remaining

So you can say we paid 10 cents for the convenience of a single click "Add To Cart" versus picking each item separately.

If we take the previous/current price of a can of HME, it is $9.95 for 550 grams. This breaks down to: $0.018090909090909090909090909090909 per gram. Thus, we have $15.38 worth of HME malt in the new HME cans.

$17.95 - $15.38 = $2.57 Remaining
$2.57 - $0.95 (Cost of One-Step) = $1.62 Remaining
$1.62 - $1.43 (Cost of extra yeast @ 0.475 per gram) = $0.19 Remaining

So you can say we are paying an extra 9 cents compared to the old Deluxe Refill.

It will be pointed out that the previous Deluxe had 2.4 lbs of malt while the new Standard refill only has 1.87 lbs of malt. But that really isn't a straight up fair comparison, due to the price difference of HME vs UME. 2.4 lbs of HME is actually $19.90. So with the Premium pack, you end up paying 5 cents for the One-Step and the convenience of the single click "Add To Cart".

If you look at it like this, the price of the new Standard Refills is not much different than the previous prices.

I found it kind of interesting that with the previous standard refill, if you broke it down like this, you ended up paying more:

1 can of HME @ $9.95 + 1 bag of Booster @ $3.49 + One-Step @ $0.95 = $14.49

With that in mind, you were previously paying $1.56 for the convenience of the single click "Add To Cart" versus clicking "Add To Cart" with each one individually.

Sounds like the new Standard Refill is actually more of a bargain.


Rick

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Dammit, more math. It's bad enough that I have to use it while brewing... :angry:;)

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Guest System Admin

"rickbray66" post=263621 said:

Sounds like the new Standard Refill is actually more of a bargain.


Rick

Not a bargain, the old Standard Refill was 2.02# of ingredients, Yes it had booster but Mr. Beer always sold it on the "IDEA" that Booster simulates an all malt by having both fermentable and Non-fermentable.

I do not feel I get a bargain when the Price goes up that much for LESS ingredients.

Also the Old was around 3.5% ABV (they stated 3.7%) and Gravity 1.036 and the New recipes come in at 1.032 so best case we get 3.2% for more money but the flavor is still out for the results.

My hydro sample was very thin, like drinking a Light beer, had nice wheat flavor but so did the WWW HME and did not seem so thin

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"Kealia" post=263630 said:

Dammit, more math. It's bad enough that I have to use it while brewing... :angry:;)


Sorry about that Kealia. I'll try not to make it a habit.

"Trollby" post=263632 said:

"rickbray66" post=263621 said:

Sounds like the new Standard Refill is actually more of a bargain.


Rick

Not a bargain, the old Standard Refill was 2.02# of ingredients, Yes it had booster but Mr. Beer always sold it on the "IDEA" that Booster simulates an all malt by having both fermentable and Non-fermentable.

I do not feel I get a bargain when the Price goes up that much for LESS ingredients.

Also the Old was around 3.5% ABV (they stated 3.7%) and Gravity 1.036 and the New recipes come in at 1.032 so best case we get 3.2% for more money but the flavor is still out for the results.

My hydro sample was very thin, like drinking a Light beer, had nice wheat flavor but so did the WWW HME and did not seem so thin

Well, technically that is correct. The old standard refill had 905 grams of ingredients versus 850 grams of ingredients. That being said, however, the price per gram of Booster is significantly less than the price per gram of UME and/or HME.

My comment about the bargain was more in reference to the cost of buying the refill kit versus picking each item individually. With the old Standard, if one had selected the items individually, it would cost $14.49, which is $1.56 below the price of $15.95, whereas the price for the new Standard if you calculate the pieces individually is $17.76, or $0.19 below the price of $17.95. $0.19


Rick

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"Trollby" post=263632 said:

"rickbray66" post=263621 said:

Sounds like the new Standard Refill is actually more of a bargain.


Rick

Not a bargain, the old Standard Refill was 2.02# of ingredients, Yes it had booster but Mr. Beer always sold it on the "IDEA" that Booster simulates an all malt by having both fermentable and Non-fermentable.

I do not feel I get a bargain when the Price goes up that much for LESS ingredients.

Also the Old was around 3.5% ABV (they stated 3.7%) and Gravity 1.036 and the New recipes come in at 1.032 so best case we get 3.2% for more money but the flavor is still out for the results.

My hydro sample was very thin, like drinking a Light beer, had nice wheat flavor but so did the WWW HME and did not seem so thin

Not a bargain when the same product that is double the size is $1 more...

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"PrivateJoker" post=263641 said:

Not a bargain when the same product that is double the size is $1 more...

But that's using a price from another source and not the MrB website. It's a fair statement, but also applies to all the products on the MrB website, old and new.


Rick

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"rickbray66" post=263645 said:

"PrivateJoker" post=263641 said:

Not a bargain when the same product that is double the size is $1 more...

But that's using a price from another source and not the MrB website. It's a fair statement, but also applies to all the products on the MrB website, old and new.


Rick

From Coopers store.. AUD $13.50 for 3.75lb can. Same company, same product. different price. Now they do charge $15 to ship down there.

I would pay higher shipping to get a cheaper priced product.

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