Jump to content
Mr.Beer Community
Sign in to follow this  
Inkleg

Stone Double Bastard Clone

Recommended Posts

Going to walk the dogs first thing in the morning. Then tackle this.

Recipe: Tobias² Ale
Brewer: Naked Cat Brewery
Asst Brewer: Those damn cats!
Style: Imperial IPA
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 8.90 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.77 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.05 gal
Estimated OG: 1.098 SG
Estimated Color: 22.4 SRM
Estimated IBU: 105.9 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 82.9 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
18 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 83.7 %
2 lbs 8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 2 11.6 %
1 lbs Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 4.7 %
3.50 oz Chinook [11.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 92.2 IBUs
0.75 oz Chinook [11.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 5 9.8 IBUs
0.75 oz Chinook [11.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 6 3.9 IBUs
1.0 pkg California Ale V (White Labs #WLP051) [3 Yeast 7 -


Mash Schedule: BIAB, Light Body
Total Grain Weight: 21 lbs 8.0 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Saccharification Add 41.90 qt of water at 156.4 F 147.9 F 90 min
Mash Out Heat to 168.0 F over 7 min 168.0 F 10 min

Sparge: Remove grains, and prepare to boil wort

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Me like. Best of both IPA worlds.....very hoppy and nice bodied malt.
1.098 SG? Damn, you da man!
I can't do that much grain in my kettle but I do love Chinook.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This will be the biggest beer I've made too date.
After doing about five 2.5 gallon BIAB batches I thought why not do five gallons. Picked up a 15 gallon pot and burner and have gone from the kitchen to the sunroom.
Problem is I still only have a hand crank on my grain mill. I may need a bowl of Wheaties half way through the grind. :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My recent kit from Midwest with 14.5 lbs of grain I ordered unmilled since it will be a few weeks before I can get to it but I am practicing for hand milling all the grains by bringing more beers to my mouth. It may take quite a few to reach this.
Seriously, most LHBS will mill your grain for free if you don't buy it from them but are a regular customer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Holy crap!!!!!! I just added 21 lbs of grain to 9 gallons of water and made brick mortar. Sitting at 149 deg. for an hour.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm going to put this into Beersmith and save for a 2.5 gallon batch in a few months (depending on how you tell me it came out). Just can't do that much grain and I don't want to use 2 pots to mash.
I've had dozens of Arrogant Bastards but never a double bastard. It's not even sold here. Isn't it like 10ABV or something?

I plan on tapping my Stone IPA clone tomorrow.....2 weeks and 1 day in the keg. It's primed but I may hook it up to my C02 and see what happens. It smelled great going into the keg.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We have it in two convenient sizes here...

stone-double-bastard.jpg

12oz, and 3 liter.... (they likely have 22oz as well)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Boil has started, 3.5 oz Chinook hops in.

SG 1.075

Beersmith SG 1.078

Close enough for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's in the LBKs filled to over the word quart. OG at 1.084 which is way off.
Did not boil off enought and had at least 1/2 gallon with on where to put it.
Only second 5 gallon batch with the new pot. I'll make a few changes in Beersmith and get it dialed in.

If the taste comes out as good as it went in I'm going to be really happy. :banana:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would take the amount for the 60 minute boil and do them at 60, 55, 50, 45, and 40..... it'll be bitter but a better blended bitter...if you don't do that, you need to send me a sample so I can see how it turned out your way ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Powers and I used chinook in our Borg collab brew, Raging IPApe, first time I used that hop, I really liked it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Overflow from both LBKs this morning. Swapped out ice packs and shut the cooler lids. I'll clean it up when I get home from work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's a mighty big beer and sounds really tasty too. How large a starter did you make, or did you and do you plan on pitching more yeast in a few days? I've brewed MB Novacaine using a single smack pack of Wyeast without making a starter and that was a 10-11% ABV beer. Just thinking out loud here now but I often wonder what difference making a starter makes on fermenting down to the lowest gravity possible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would put a whole packet of yeast in each LBK. Personally, I haven't used a starter since I started back brewing. I've never had a problem and I aerate very, very well. But, it is a good habit to get into.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Inkleg" post=263906 said:

Going to walk the dogs first thing in the morning. Then tackle this.

Recipe: Tobias² Ale
Brewer: Naked Cat Brewery
Asst Brewer: Those damn cats!
Style: Imperial IPA
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 8.90 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.77 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.05 gal
Estimated OG: 1.098 SG
Estimated Color: 22.4 SRM
Estimated IBU: 105.9 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 82.9 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
18 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 83.7 %
2 lbs 8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 2 11.6 %
1 lbs Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 3 4.7 %
3.50 oz Chinook [11.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 4 92.2 IBUs
0.75 oz Chinook [11.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 5 9.8 IBUs
0.75 oz Chinook [11.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 6 3.9 IBUs
1.0 pkg California Ale V (White Labs #WLP051) [3 Yeast 7 -


Mash Schedule: BIAB, Light Body
Total Grain Weight: 21 lbs 8.0 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Saccharification Add 41.90 qt of water at 156.4 F 147.9 F 90 min
Mash Out Heat to 168.0 F over 7 min 168.0 F 10 min

Sparge: Remove grains, and prepare to boil wort

tumblr_m3y1i5ZhfK1rvyooxo1_500.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The kit I got from AHBS recommended a starter. I make a 1700 ml starter with the White Labs WLP051. Decanted most of the liquid and split between both well aerated kegs.
I'll post the FG in a couple of weeks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks genotype. That's how I feel every time I take a store bought one out of the fridge. If this clone works out I'll have it on tap. :banana:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ultravista, welcome to the Borg.

Yes it was from AHBS. I realy like dealing with them. At the time I ordered the kit I was only set up for 2.5 gallon all grain batches. I ask if they could split the grain bill for me.
They split the Two row into 9 pound bags and 120 malt into seperate bags. When I was ready to make it I had gotten a bigger pot so I did it as 5 gallons.
I used the WLP051 yeast they recommended split between two LBKs and this is the result.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That Bastard isn't cheap is it? Wonder why? Their site doesn't seem to show exactly what the grains and hops are in the kit but I bet I could save a ton going to my LHBS.
I've never bought a kit from AHS but have gotten hardware. My only kits have been from Midwest and the LHBS.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kits are always going to be more expensive than gathering a recipe from scratch. Paying for R&D, labor and packaging.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"genotype" post=264935 said:

Kits are always going to be more expensive than gathering a recipe from scratch. Paying for R&D, labor and packaging.

I get that but when I look at Midwest kits, they are considerably less expensive. I just got the Hop Head Double IPA for $30 (with dry yeast). It's about 5 lbs less grain and has 6 oz of hops. Hard to tell what the Double Bastard has for sure. Their most expensive AG kit appears to be $38.
Having never purchased a kit from AHS, I was just curious as to why there's such a huge difference for AG.

EDIT: I see if you use the pull down and choose the milled or unmilled grain, it drops the price by $16.50. That's closer for sure and I'll have to give one of their kits a try. I think I'll wait until we hear how this one comes out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you select milled AG and dry yeast, it brings the price down to $50. Still $20 more. Who knows? Have yet to buy a kit from them, but I have bought plenty of raw ingredients for my own. I do like how you can buy less than a pound of grain and have them add it to a specific grain bill, but you do pay a premium for purchasing less than the standard amount.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you think this one is pricey, check out the Maharaja Imperial IPA kit. I've had bottles of the actual commercial brew from Avery a few times. Avery makes some great beers, but I'm certainly not going to spend that much to try to make it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ultravista, you are correct. The recipe I posted was the Double Bastard kit from AHBS. I had searched alot of web sites and fourms for recipes.
All were different and alot seemed way to complicated. I like AHBS and the reviews of the kit were good. The kit cost 52.00 with the yeast.
Going into the frementers it was really good. DB is 8.00 per 22oz.
If this works out I'll have it for 1.00 per 12oz and the recipe. :banana:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow! That's expensive. I don't feel that confident to spend that much money on 5 gallons of beer.

When I saw Double Bastard, I thought that was the kit but you obviously have the clone of the standard Arrogant Bastard (a favorite of mine)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Excellent news, please report back on the flavor and outcome. I am very anxious :)

You can oak it to amp it up!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Inkleg - what is the suggested fermentation temperature?

The yeast portion is cut-offon your recipe ...
1.0 pkg California Ale V (White Labs #WLP051) [3 Yeast 7 -

What is after >> [3 Yeast 7 - ?

Also, per the AHS website, there is 19.5 lb Base Grains, 2 lb Specialty Grain

Your recipe is 18 pounds of base and 3.8 of specialty. Is this a typo?

I wonder why AHS went with WLP051 when Stone uses WLP007 for most of their beers.

Do you still have the instruction sheet from the AHS kit? If so, can you scan and post?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ultravista, nothing was cut off thats how Beersmith laid it out. According to White Labs optimum temp is 66-70 for WLP051.

The recipe I posted is what was sent from AHBS except for the 1 pound cara-pils (I added that because I BIAB). Most likely add an extra lb of Two row next time.

Don't know why 051 instead of 007. Like I said the more you research, the more different info you come up with. I decided I'd start here and see where it goes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Inkleg - can you post your Beersmith .bsm or .bsmx file? I am creating your recipe verbatim but not coming up with the same results.

Alternatively, you can email me @ rpksale@hotmail.com

3.5 ounces of Chinook @ 11% gives me 143 IBU where yours is 92 - quite a difference

I BIAB too - what's with the Carapils?

Did you up-size the batch to 5.5 gallons due to the Carapils? Austin's Homebrew Kit is 5 gallons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ultravista- Sorry on the delay on getting back. I hate it when work gets in the way.
You're pushing my limits of computer knowledge with these .bsm, bsmx, xyz and pdq files. I'll see what I can do.

The difference in IBUs could be your equipment set up.
I added the cara because at the time I did not have 2 row.
Because I BIAB I usually add an extra lb to make up for effeciency loss.
The 5.5 gallons is just how I have my equipment profile set up in Beersmith 2 so I know I'll have at least 5 at bottling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Which version of Beersmith are you using?

In Beersmith 2.0, select the recipe, right-click and choose export selected, from there you name the file and save location.

You are saving just this recipe. You can post or email the .bsm (older Beersmith) or .bsmx (Beersmith 2.0+).

Does that help?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hope this works


[attachment]Tobias² Ale.bsmx[/attachment]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your post says "Attachment Tobias² Ale.bsmx not found".

Do you mind emailing it? rpksale1@hotmail.com

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have not forgotten about you. Keyboard at the house died. I'm at work and Beersmith is on the home computer. I'll send it when able.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In order to get some files to work in many forums, you may have to change the end of the filename to something else other than .bsm or .bsmx such as .txt or .jpg. Then, the person downloading the file can change the filename back to .bsm or .bsmx.
But, it's probably better to just email the fail if it's small enough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No worries. I'll probably queue this up for an upcoming batch this year.

I brewed the CYBI Arrogant Bastard rebrew # 2 (90% two row, 10% Special B) this past Saturday. Everything came out perfect and the beer is now fermenting at 69 (F). I can't wait to taste it. The pre-fermented wort tasted pretty damned good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Beer-lord" post=264934 said:

That Bastard isn't cheap is it?

Just for reference: I remember seeing this at a local beer distributor and I think it was around $84.00 for a case of 24 12oz bottles. I could be mistaken, but it's definitely up there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've never seen Double Bastard in 12oz bottles. Only 22oz and 3 liter bottles and it's not cheep either way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah it's $8.99 for a 22 oz Double Bastard here.

At least it's cheaper than 120 minute IPA from Dogfishhead,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Inkleg - any updates on the .bsmx file?

Double Bastard is $6.99 here in Las Vegas, at Total Wine and More. I have an old $2 off coupon with no expiration date. Still have the image file from a newsletter I got from them a long time ago. They still honor it.

That takes me down to $4.99 for the Double Bastard :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd be interested in this as well. Can't find much around on DB but AB is all over the place.
Try this for the AB recipe. Just change .txt to .bsm.

[attachment=8136]ArrogantBastard.txt[/attachment]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ultravista - still haven't gotten on the home computer. Had some old keyboards at work they were getting rid of, wrong plug in, go figure. Going to try and swing by and pick one up tonight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Double Bastard is one of my favorite regular drinking beers. We get 22oz bottles for about $8. It is big, it is malty, it is hoppy. It is almost like a barleywine. I only need ONE bottle....yet it is drinkable and thirst quenching.

It's one of the ones that I would love to tackle soon.

It also ages very nicely. It transforms after a year or more.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

[attachment]Stone Double Bastard.bsmx[/attachment]

Lets see if this works
I see it didn't. I'll keep working on it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Arg ... it says "Attachment Tobias² Ale.bsm not found".

Can you email it to me? rpksale1@Hotmail.com

Maybe it's the ^2 that is throwing it off ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh yeah! I got mail. Thank you!

How you like BIAB? I mash in a bag (voile) and hop in a 200 micron bag and love it. No stuck sparges here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I enjoy it. Started with 2.5 gallons and now I'm doing 5. I just use a voile set of drapes that I put in the steamer basket and drop into the pot.
Be careful when doing this recipe. Have someone pour the grain while you stir. It will make brick mortar.

This is Tobias he is larger than life. Hence the name Tobias² Ale.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How long ago did you buy your kit from AHS?

Thier kit now lists Double Bastard as 19.5 pounds of base malt. Did they modify it for you before shipping?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know if I could do that much grain in my kettle(BIAB) but I'm willing to try. It would have to be at least 6 weeks from now as I already have enough grain for 2 different 5 gallon AG batches. Plus, I have 5 gallons ready to drink now with 2.5 gallons about to go to the keg.
Wow, this could be a problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The instruction sheet that came with the kit listed 18 lbs 2 row and 2.5 of 120, so could be a typo on the web site.

Beer-lord I'll send it when I get home tonight.
I have a 15 gallon pot and it worked no problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm doing 15 lbs in my 9 gallon pot this weekend which I know I can fit but 20, I'm not sure. Using the BIAB calculator, to get 5.5 gallons, I'd need 9 gallons of water for 20lbs of grain. Only 8.5 if I end up with 5. I could cheat a bit but 8.5 gallons of water with 20 lbs of grain will over flow the pot.
I will look into reducing the recipe to 4 gallons or use another pot and do a smaller, second mash. That would be a PITA but is doable.
Either way, it would be months before I attempt this. I look forward to getting the info via email.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Inkleg - do you have the ability to scan the instruction sheet?

How long ago did you buy the kit from AHS? Maybe they changed it since then?

Thank you again for the help.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's one thing I don't like about AHS, they don't show what's in the kit like Midwest and Northern do. Maybe that's because they don't want anyone to know their recipe but it really helps me to know exactly what's included, even if there's no mash or boil instructions.
I can pretty much guess what to do once I know what I'm working with.
Or, am I missing something and just can't find this info on the AHS website?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll see what I can do to scan it.
I got the kit about 2 months ago. The online weight has not changed before or after getting the kit.

Brewers Friend web site Brewhouse Efficiency Calculator has the total 20.5 lbs coming in at 1.102 OG at 75%. I think this is in line with the specs from AHBS. I'll check when I get home.

With BIAB I was happy to get 1.084 and know I can do better next time.
This was only my 2nd batch with my new pot. Minor details to work out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Beer-lord - no, AHS does not publish what is in their kits. You'll get the ingredients when the package arrives, but not before hand.

It makes selecting a "clone" difficult if you're looking for something specific.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well Sunday will be three weeks. This is a Precision Hydrometer from AHBS. It reads 1.000 to 1.070. So it's at 1.010 or 1.012.
I'll check it again tomorrow and probably call it beer. Going to keg it with 1/2 the priming sugar and set it aside for at least a month.
I love the color and the taste is great.


[attachment=8231]P10105052.JPG[/attachment]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"genotype" post=268628 said:

looks good. keg w/ 1/2 the priming sugar? what volume will that achieve?

To be honest I don't know. Searching the threads at HBT I see alot of keggers will add between 1/4 to 3/4 of the priming sugar while conditioning that way there is some carbonation when they hook it to the CO2. I'm still new to this keg thing and learning. Please, any knowledge you can share I'm all ears.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wish I could. It was all I could do not to pull the trigger on a 5 gallon keg setup from MoreBeer today.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Inkleg" post=268643 said:

One big bottle or 50 small. I'm lazy and went with one.

I got 4 used kegs and went with the picnic taps from here.
http://stores.kegconnection.com/StoreFront.bok
The kegs weren't the prettiest, but neither is my beer.


Good on ya! You won't be sorry.
Wish I could be there during the first tastings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm waiting for my batch of Arrogant Bastard to finish up too, not the double, the original.

It's been 13 days since pitching the yeast and, while I didn't take a gravity reading yet, I know it's done. WLP007 chewed through the wort quickly, in about 4 days.

Inkleg - looks good!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let me know how you like the WLP007. Reading all the good reviews on the White Labs web site about it I think I'll make the DB again, use it and compare the two.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Checking the #s in Beersmith this is 9.8% ABV with 87% attenuation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

WLP007 was a weird beast. As a first time user, it freaked me out as it lumps, chunks, congeals, etc. I've never seen anything like it before.

It likes to stick together. After a minute rest, the starter was near solid at the bottom. Enough so that the stir bar had to be coaxed around with a strong magnet to get it moving freely.

Comeing from Wyest packs, it seemed strange. Nonetheless, it works like a champ.

Youtube "WLP007" to see this stuff in action. It looks like egg drop soup on a stir plate.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds like the WLP002 which I used for the Borg Brew Stout. Looks like cottage cheese.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's in the keg. OG 1.084, FG 1.010 puts it at 9.8% right in line with the real stuff. Taste is great. I'll post back in 6-7 weeks with a side by side comparison.


[attachment=8262]P10105222.JPG[/attachment]


[attachment=8263]P10105242.JPG[/attachment]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just in time for preseason. Color looks great going in.
Did you do 2.5 gallons or 2 of the LBK's?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I filled two LBKs over the word quart for a total of 5 gallons.


You ask what I wrapped my pot in. I wrapped it around about 4 times cutting a slot for the handle each time and cut two squares to cover the lid. No loss of heat over the hour during this time of year and only 1-2 deg in the winter.

http://www.lowes.com/pd_13357-56291-BP24025_4294858104__?productId=3011904&Ns=p_product_qty_sales_dollar|1&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNs%3Dp_product_qty_sales_dollar%7C1&facetInfo=

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The keg went in the keezer tonight. I added some priming sugar when I kegged it so there is some carbonation to it. I'll let it chill and hook it to the gas tomorrow. It won't be ready but I'll have to try some on Sunday. I'll update as it carbs up and matures.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, here we go Stone DB next to Tobias². Mine sweeter and needs more bitter. Next batch back off 120 by 1/2 to 3/4 lb and up bittering hops to 4oz at 60 min., 1.5 at 15 min. and 1 oz at 5 and see where it goes from there. With 40 more beers in the keg at 9.8% it could be awhile.
Oh, how I will suffer, but some how I'll manage ;)
If any one swings through Atlanta I could use some help.
Didn't think to take a picture of them together when the glasses were full.
Mine is on the left.

[attachment=8678]P10105672.JPG[/attachment]

[attachment=8679]P10105652.JPG[/attachment]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whew, heavy brew right there! Wanna bring some to S. Florida and take a lil' vacation? :chug:

Nice pics BTW just going through this thread. I especially liked this one:
1HEJ3.jpg
Take note of a professional at work people!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have you brewed this again? If so, how did it turn out? Would you say the AHS kit is close to the real deal or not so close?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...