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Kealia

My hopstand with WCPA

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In an effort to see how well this works, and to use up the two cans of WCPA that I have just performed my first hopstand.

Simple recipe:
2 cans WCPA
1 lb munich LME
.33 oz Amarillo for 30 minutes
.33 oz Citra for 20 minutes
Pacman yeast

Brought 6 cups water to a boil.
Added LME and settled heat at 170.
Added Amarillo.
10 minutes later added Citra.
Let stand for 20 minutes before chilling.

Dropped temp to about 65 and pitched yeast.

Easy, peasy.

If this works as planned I expect a lot of flavor and aroma more so than when dry-hopping.

I'm leaving town in 2 weeks so Pacman needs to do it's thing so i can bottle on day 14. It can then carb and condition while I'm traveling.

As I said in another thread, WCPA is a pretty blank slate IMO so this should be interesting.

I'll update as it progresses.

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It will be interesting to hear about your results. As you say, WCPA can make a nice "blank slate". In fact, my current Schwarzbier recipe has its foundation on WCPA, and it has turned out well despite being not exactly "pale". As I use up my own old inventory of HME, I'm starting to check out NWPA as a base for what could be a range of recipes.

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So far so good. Started at 1.059 and it's at 1.017 today. I'm going to try to warm it a bit over the next 48 hours but I need to bottle no later than Tuesday so we'll see where it is at that point.

I can say that the sample smelled good. I pulled a sample at 5 days to check it and then put it in a satellite fermentor and it still smells pretty good. I'm curious to see how it carries over to the whole batch at bottling and then again at drinking time.

Either way, with the addition of the munich this should be a decent beer. I didn't go crazy with the hopstand as I wanted to see what a small amount would do so I could build from there.

Promising so far. Thanks to others who have posted about their experiences with hopstands. That's what me try this on this batch.

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This has been in the bottle for just under 4 weeks at this point.

Since yesterday was Independence Day I decided to liberate a bottle yesterday and test it out.

It poured a little dark, but then again I used a pound of Munich LME in it so I shouldn't be surprised at all.
My main concern was that it was going to be overly malty due to the extra malt and the lack of an additional bittering addition of hops. I was pleasantly surprised to see that was NOT the case.

What I got was definite Munich on the nose, but a pretty decent bittering/flavor charge from the hopstand. I'm going to let them go a bit longer since I am in no hurry to drink them but for what I thought could be a throw-away batch this turned out pretty good.

I learned that I need a LOT of more hops for aroma this way as the little amount I threw in did nothing for the nose (unless it knocked down the Munich malty smell a little). So while it doesn't SMELL like a typical Pale Ale in my opinion, it has a pretty good flavor and balanced bitterness to it. Interesting...surely more experimenting is in order here.

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Maybe a hint if I understand how you did it... To get more aroma, you want to be tossing in your hops after you turn off the flame and start to cool it down. Like a whirlpool addition... not in the boil. At least that's what I am doing, I toss in the hops at the very end, and start cooling with them in there. I've been using a lot more hops too. Getting really good and stable aroma and flavor from that kind of addition using say 1oz of hops in an APA/IPA type of beer.

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Yeah, I went with the hopstand versus the hopburst.

After adding all the LME, etc. I took the wort down to 170 and then added the hopstand/whirlpool additions.

I read before that it takes more hops and my goal was to measure the aroma and flavor of those versus a typical 15-minute and 0-minute addition. I like what I got from it from the flavor/aroma department but clearly need more for aroma. I recall that opinions vary on this but the range of utilization seems to hang right about the 30% mark IIRC.

In this case I used what I had on-hand but next time I'll try to do it "right".
In any case, I'm encouraged by this small test.

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"Kealia" post=384463 said:

Yeah, I went with the hopstand versus the hopburst.

After adding all the LME, etc. I took the wort down to 170 and then added the hopstand/whirlpool additions.

I read before that it takes more hops and my goal was to measure the aroma and flavor of those versus a typical 15-minute and 0-minute addition. I like what I got from it from the flavor/aroma department but clearly need more for aroma. I recall that opinions vary on this but the range of utilization seems to hang right about the 30% mark IIRC.

In this case I used what I had on-hand but next time I'll try to do it "right".
In any case, I'm encouraged by this small test.

+1 to what mashani said...

You want the wort to be just of boil when you add the hops for the hopstand.

They will contribute more when the temp is greater that 170*F...

Not sure if you have seen this yet or not so... Here's an exerpt from a BYO article on the topic...

Three temperature profiles that seem to be popular among homebrewers are just off boil range 190–212 °F (88–100 °C), the sub-isomerization range 160–170 °F (71–77 °C), and a tepid hop stand range 140–150 °F (60–66 °C). The 190–212 °F (88–100 °C) range will allow essential oils with higher flashpoints an easier time to solubulize into the wort and also will allow some alpha acid isomerization to occur with the best estimates of between 5–15% utilization. Some homebrewers will keep their kettle burner on low to keep the temperature of the wort elevated above 200 °F (93 °C) during their extended hop stands which would better emulate the conditions in commercial whirlpools. A hop stand in the 160–170 °F (71–77 °C) range will basically shut down the alpha acid isomerization reaction and the lower temperatures will reduce the vaporization of the essential oils. Homebrewers can use their wort chillers to bring the wort down to this range before adding the knockout hops or they can add a second dose of knockout hops. The 140–150 °F (60–66 °C) range will once again reduce vaporization of the low flashpoint oils, but may take longer to get the same amount of essential oils extracted.

And of course, a link to the article...

http://byo.com/stories/issue/item/2808-hop-stands

:)

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"mashani" post=384409 said:

Maybe a hint if I understand how you did it... To get more aroma, you want to be tossing in your hops after you turn off the flame and start to cool it down. Like a whirlpool addition... not in the boil. At least that's what I am doing, I toss in the hops at the very end, and start cooling with them in there. I've been using a lot more hops too. Getting really good and stable aroma and flavor from that kind of addition using say 1oz of hops in an APA/IPA type of beer.

We have been doing them as well and have been adding the hops after the kettle is in the ice bath and waiting for the 150/140 range to target the low flash point oils and letting sit for 20 to 30 min.

We are using 1/2 ounce for a LBK sized batch but are also dry hopping with 1/2 ounce.

I find the flavor profile quite good so far, my brother thinks he is picking up some astringency though, but the aroma is still slight by the time they have conditioned satisfactorily.

Any thoughts re: add at higher temp range or add more hops for stand?

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I have seen that article (I subscribe, too). That was one of my reference points. I keyed on this part:

"A hop stand in the 160–170 °F (71–77 °C) range will basically shut down the alpha acid isomerization reaction and the lower temperatures will reduce the vaporization of the essential oils."

I didn't want the alpha acids to isomerize as I wasn't looking for bitterness from this. I was targeting flavor and aroma and that was my reasoning for targeting the 170 rang. I didn't want the vaporization.

I only used .33/oz for each of the two 'stands' and based on re-reading that and a few other things I think I need to go up a bit. Clearly I could jump to 1oz but I think I'll step-up to .50/oz for two additions my next time around and see what I get. I'm expecting that I will be able to skip the dry hop altogether once I get to the right amounts.

Open to all feedback and input/experience here. This is a aspect that I'm just getting into myself.

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I don't know if it helps/matters, but I've been doing it with a lid on the pot. [insert whatever DMS paranoia here, and then throw it out because it doesn't happen at this stage unless you didn't boil enough]. I did this at first out of just plain infection paranoia, as I have dogs and cats and dog and cat hair flying around everywhere. But as a side effect, I am guessing that it helps to recondense any essential oils that vaporize and get them back into the beer. I'm starting at a higher temp, but then it falls into the lower temp ranges as it cools during the stand.

That could just be total crap (except the don't fear the DMS part, because really that's not crap, ask any no-chill brewer), but it's working for me LOL.

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"Kealia" post=384520 said:

I didn't want the alpha acids to isomerize as I wasn't looking for bitterness from this. I was targeting flavor and aroma and that was my reasoning for targeting the 170 rang. I didn't want the vaporization.

I only used .33/oz for each of the two 'stands' and based on re-reading that and a few other things I think I need to go up a bit. Clearly I could jump to 1oz but I think I'll step-up to .50/oz for two additions my next time around and see what I get. I'm expecting that I will be able to skip the dry hop altogether once I get to the right amounts.

Gotcha... I mis-interpreted your goal...

So far I have used the process in addition to hopbursting to increase both Bittering (probably by 10% or so) AND Flavor and Aroma components with my ultimate goal being two-fold...

To shorten my extract boils and to not have to dry hop at all...

:)

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Fast forward a few weeks and this turned out really well, I think.

The Simcoe flavor has really come forward so it maybe it just needed some additional conditioning time because it was a HME base, I dunno.

But, the two cans of WCPA + Munich had the potential to make a really malty beer and this has a nice hop-forward flavor (APA style).

I don't have any more cans of HME, nor any plans to buy any, but if I come across any I'd repeat this in a heatbeat with maybe a touch more + a dry hop to enhance any basic recipes.

I'm happy to have these in the pipeline now since my brewing has been so slow lately.

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Sounds good. I'm really happy with all the beers I've done a hop stand in.

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This definitely warrants some testing with my AG batches. I just need to build back my pipeline before I try it.

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