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NxQ!?

MB Biere De Saison

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Just pulled a test bottle of MB Biere De Saison after 10 days in the bottle. PET was showing definite signs of pressure, so thought I would test the 500ml swing-tops to see if disaster was imminent B) - what a great beer! I used Cooper's Carbonation Drops in a previous brew of Oktoberfest Lager (1 per 500ml bottle), with the result of very light carbonation even after a month of conditioning, so I used 2 CCD per 500ml for the Saison, with some trepidation. Even at 10 days I can tell this brew will be awesome when conditioned out; good carbonation beginning, spicy notes with slight fruity tartness, just the right hops; seems unlikely any of them will pop a gasket before done, so I may stick with 2 CCD for the 500ml - definitely seems to provide better fizz. Also came in at a hefty almost 8% ABV according to the electronic refractometer! Can't wait for the final result and to start another LBK!

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Just used the MB 1.7kg extract and nothing else - sort of rushed this time to get it kegged up; Belle Saison yeast. I've substantially doctored other extracts, but this was the straight stuff, and seems to have all the right qualities as-is. Surprised at the ABV, but this batch of yeast was really happy from the get-go! I did cold-crash before bottling because there was quite a bit of trub, so guessing it will take a full 4 weeks for cleanup or maybe even longer....

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8% ABV isn't possible with any can of Mr. Beer extract by itself. Your reading has to be off.

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Did brew rather warm (74-76 F), pretty well calibrated Hanna digital refractometer which is spot on with my other brews that are less ABV, and it was 1.7Kg. 1.62 OG (15.2 Brix) and 1.002 FG (6.3 Brix and FG calculated on Northern Brewer site - http://www.northernbrewer.com/refractometer-calculator/); other calculators gave similar results. Multiple readings (only takes a couple of drops; read after initial bottle, couple or three bottles in and final bottle). More importantly, it tastes like 8% (actually, 7.8%); no significant off-flavors that I can detect. Go figure....

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Agree with Rick MR B kits do not come in that high. How did you calculate this, refractometer are not accurate when alcohol is present

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Just reporting my results; the seasonal beers are twice the quantity of the normal refills - so ABV should, according to the MB site, be around 6.5%. I didn't brew with any expectation otherwise. The yeast packet is also larger in these kits, and that may have something to do with the final results My fermenter also was in the range of 74-76 F through the process (not cooled), so a warmer fermentation may have boosted the alcohol content; I didn't add anything extra; very active fermentation for several days. And yes, you can use a number of on line calculators to get final results when alcohol is present with a refractometer, and this one is a rather accurate lab refractometer. How accurate these on line calculators are is something the Borg may have an answer to; the final result from this batch is very pleasantly alcoholic, and I would guess from my too-extensive experience with single-malt Scotch that it probably is close to 8%, but just my guess :P .

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"RickBeer" post=388517 said:

Which Mr. Beer extract did you brew?

Just the MB Biere De Saison seasonal extract (larger can), and the Belle Saison yeast included were very lively yeast (and in a larger pack)! So I'm inclined to trust the lab results and the taste just based on the expected parameters, but don't know if I can repeat it; I'm certainly going to try! :lol:

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the only way to get an accurate ABV value is to have it tested. I have brewed for years and have had my beers tested, high ABV Belgiums being my specialty. If that is your ABV consider yourself lucky. Most here will tell you that the ABV on the kits are overstated. As far as your fermenting temp it is not all that warm for saisons. It is not uncommon for these beers to peak in the 90's at high krausen. You most definitely need more conditioning time. Alcohol taste is often considered a fault in a beer.

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Agree with the conditioning time :silly: and am anxious to try another batch - same corner of the bar, same temp, same water & process. In another life I was a chemist; I like this hobby!

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Another reason I am questioning your FG, is that the condensation process used to make extracts, changes the sugar molecules into longer chains. Which are unfementable by beer yeast. It is recommend that extract brewers of saisons use champagne yeast to reach their FG. I use my refactometer as a rough check and double check against the hydrometer. Both are calibrated to distilled water. As long as you know the accuracy of your equipment you will be fine. With the usage of the correct yeasts and sugar feedings it is possible to get your beer into the 20% range, without a noticeable alcohol taste. Just be careful when you stand up :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

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Haerbob3/RickBeer - although normally I'd agree with you, Bella Saison and French Saison are not like normal yeast. They happily ferment out more complex sugars that other yeast will not if you give them an otherwise happy environment. So I would not discount that it could get 90%+ attenuation in even an all extract beer. I've seen it happen personally in all extract beers (although using fresh bulk extract, not from cans, but you never know).

Everyone I've seen who posted about the summer saison can has been getting low FGs.

Also we don't know what's in that can of extract, they could very well have added candi sugar or simple sugar to it. Being a bigger saison, it would be fully appropriate for them to have done it.

I'll be able to let you know where mine is in a few days, but I'm expecting it to be finishing 1.006 or less based on experience.

EDIT: Also, Bella Saison and French Saison do not need to hit 80-90 like a Belgian saison yeast. They work pretty nicely in the 70-79 range. 80's isn't a bad thing, but it will not get stuck like Belgian saison if you keep it in the 70s the whole time.

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I am not familiar with this yeast, Bella Saison, so that may be true. If you have had that kind of experience with it Mashani I need to check this yeast out. I only use the Belgium strain in the summer when it is easy to maintain the temp required. The French saison yeast is the one I go to the most. Have a batch that I am going to wash today so it is ready for next week's brew session. I am just too tired to brew today, plus I would have need to started a couple of hours ago. At least there are no more golf outings till Sept!! So I will get at least 1 day a week off!!

Back on topic. What are the specs on the Bella Saison yeast used here?

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http://www.danstaryeast.com/products/belle-saison-yeast

It's like a dry version of French Saison from what I can tell. Tastes just like it. Ferments out bone dry just like it. Has that same silky mouth feel. Except being dry you get a high pitch rate without bothering with a starter, so it's pretty awesome. I'm keeping some around at all times. If I do get a stuck fermentation I think I'll try it instead of Notty which is what I'd usually toss in.

Last beer I made with it ended up at 1.003 (closer to 1.002 actually) from 1.050, and it was extract + 1/2# of candi syrup.. I've got 2 more batches in LBKs that I'll be pulling samples from soon but I expect they are both quite dry as well.

If you mash at 147-149 and use sugar, I'd expect it to ferment out to close to 1.000 maybe even get below it. If you like bone dry, it's the stuff.

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with the french saison I have gotten down to 0.999. A beautiful beer without the champagne yeasts I do a step mash now. Dough in at 120 let the temp raise slowly to the desired mash temp. Beers have been coming out much clearer

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@NxQ!? - Just here to validate some of your results. My OG and FG (calibrated hydrometer) were 1.062 and 1.005 for a resultant 7.5% ABV. I can easily believe you can hit 8% with this yeast.

Second, the beer is delicious. My fermentation temps were 73-76 F and this yeast imparted a ton of flavor to the beer. The beer has a pretty solid bittering backbone for the level of attenuation.

All around, the summer seasonal is a huge improvement over the spring white ipa.

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This is true, without even considering priming, the Seasonal Saison hits about 7.35% ABV. Once you consider priming, which on average adds between 0.50 and 0.80%, 8% is pretty believable!

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Yeah, beast of a yeast. My first one came in at 7.1% ABV (according to my trusty hydrometer). Just popped a bottle in the fridge to cool off for a bit before I try one out!

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Aaah; a picture of the first pour: summer is here!


[attachment=14347]image_2013-07-23-2.jpg[/attachment]

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"samueld" post=388758 said:

This is true, without even considering priming, the Seasonal Saison hits about 7.35% ABV. Once you consider priming, which on average adds between 0.50 and 0.80%, 8% is pretty believable!

I wish you would start to carry Bella Saison as one of your selections. It would make a nice addition to your recipes in place of T-58 where the beer would benefit from being drier. And it would give me more reason to place some orders with ya, because I love the stuff and I can't get it locally so I have to order it from somewhere.

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"willsr" post=388724 said:


All around, the summer seasonal is a huge improvement over the spring white ipa.

I found it funny that after I took my second can of spring white IPA and turned it into a 2 LBK batch of saison using Bella Saison that I already had that the summer one came out with the same yeast. The spring white IPA would have seemed more like an IPA if it came with this yeast, it would have dried out more and let the IBUs come through.

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Mine came in at 7.1% using screwy's calculator OG 1.058 to FG 1.005 It's a dang nice one to drink and I'll be leaving a six pack aside for vacation in October. Think I'll pick up another one to do.

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"samueld" post=388758 said:

This is true, without even considering priming, the Seasonal Saison hits about 7.35% ABV. Once you consider priming, which on average adds between 0.50 and 0.80%, 8% is pretty believable!

That's news to me. I've never tested ABV when a bottle is ready, but I had read where the change is negligible. Some have said maybe a tenth of a point, i.e. a 5.1% beer become 5.2%. I've also read that maybe a quarter, i.e. a 5.1% becomes 5.35%. But I've never seen 0.8%.

I've made a note to take a sample on my next bottle and compare it to the FG reading.

Samuel, are you saying that you've tested and can validate you really got those kinds of increases?

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Add the same amount of sugar you prime with to your batches OG.

Then in any ABV calculator such as this one or Screwies or whatever

http://www.brewersfriend.com/abv-calculator/

Plug in the same FG you measured at bottling time, since the sugar is 100% fermented out.

That's your true ABV.

It's really that simple, there isn't any magic to it.

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Good point Mashani. I've never added the sugar in that way to the calculation.

I took my Moosedrool clone which came out at 5.4% and did the revised calc, using 120 grams of sugar for 5 gallons, and came out to 5.8%.

So that's .3. To get .5 or .8 you'd have to use a whole bunch of sugar.

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"mashani" post=388909 said:

Add the same amount of sugar you prime with to your batches OG.

Then in any ABV calculator such as this one or Screwies or whatever

http://www.brewersfriend.com/abv-calculator/

Plug in the same FG you measured at bottling time, since the sugar is 100% fermented out.

That's your true ABV.

It's really that simple, there isn't any magic to it.

+1 to this. I've used that same technique often. Sometimes I opt to naturally carb a keg when I want that small bump in ABV to help push me a little closer to the desired level.


Rick

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"RickBeer" post=388914 said:

Good point Mashani. I've never added the sugar in that way to the calculation.

I took my Moosedrool clone which came out at 5.4% and did the revised calc, using 120 grams of sugar for 5 gallons, and came out to 5.8%.

So that's .3. To get .5 or .8 you'd have to use a whole bunch of sugar.

.3 I can buy. .5 or .8....no way. I would not want to drink a beer that had been carbed with enough sugar to add .8 to your ABV. It woud be like sody pop.

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.5 I can buy in some beers. Some beers are good carbed at high volumes, but it's for a reason, IE it's a light bodied beer and you want more mouth feel, or it's lightly bittered, and the bubbles make it seem less cloying/more bitter then it really is. Mostly this is certain kinds of Belgians and Wheats.

Anyways, you can use that same technique to figure sugar additions if your feeding sugar in a big IPA or Belgian or something. I know folks ask about this once in a while, that's really the simple answer. Just keep adding the sugar to your measured OG...

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Finally got this baby in the LBK tonight, wort was kinda cool, pitched it at 63F, but keeping it on the counter so it will get up to 76 or so, maybe a bit higher.

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OK just tried mine last night. Great head, carbonation and color. Liked the initial taste, but too much bitter aftertaste (BAT) for me. This is only 30 IBU, but just too much bitter for my tongue. I am going to try to mellow it out a bit, and make another batch with lemon zest and juice to try to smooth out the BAT.  

OG 1.064

FG 1.004

ABV 7.86%

Monty

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Tried mine yesterday afternoon.  Nice gold color.  Good white head, nice lacing on the glass as the beer levels in the glass went down.  Very effervescent.  Noticeable bitterness but not much hop flavor.

I checked the Beer Judge Certification Program guidelines for Saison this morning and this Mr. Beer HME hits the marks.

OG   1.062

FG    1.006

ABV  7.2%

I've got a couple of Saison Dupont bottles that I'll do a side by side taste test with my Biere De Saison next time I break one out.

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