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Travis Eidson

using less sugar

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I was looking through post just trying to learn stuff and saw a recommendation saying that many brewers use less sugar than Mr. Beer recommends. I tried searching for more on this but had no luck. My question is why? What does using less sugar do? If I'm not mistaken, what I was able to read up on from other post, more sugar increases the ABV. Is this correct or am I misunderstanding these older post?

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Not sure if this answers your question but some folk add simple sugars to their wort to increase the potential alcohol but beer yeast can ferment dry fructose or sucrose and that sugar does not add any flavor to the beer. The alternative method is to add more DME or LME rather than sugar. In the old days, the recommednation was to increase the starting gravity of the wort with corn sugar. I think today most folk would rather add more sugars and flavors from malt... more buck but significantly more bang

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dont some yeasts ie coopers, turn excess sugar in the bottles when carbing to a greener apple taste that takes longer to condition out?

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Not sure cooper's yeast is anything special. Ain't the gold packs just S-33?(or the Aussie equivalent)

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I believe that granulated sugar (and perhaps corn sugar) is supposed to taste "cidery" when fermented out... I don't know. I make all kinds of fruit wines and often use table sugar to increase the ABV or indeed provide the yeast with any sugar content (wines made with flowers such as hibiscus, elderflower or heather have no fermentable sugars) . My palate is not educated enough to detect distinct "green apple flavors" in my wines. But then you age wines for many, many months before cracking open a bottle...  

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The green taste tells you that the beer is young and not ready.  4 weeks later it will taste less green.  By 6 - 8 weeks, you either won't taste any, or if you do it's because you added a bunch of stuff to the brew like fruit, sugar (shouldn't), honey, etc.

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dont some yeasts ie coopers, turn excess sugar in the bottles when carbing to a greener apple taste that takes longer to condition out?

No. Sugar doesn't affect the flavor of the beer at all when used for priming. You can use any type of sugar for priming and it won't affect the flavor. For fermentation, however, you are using larger amounts of sugar and these can and will affect the flavor of your beer.

 

 

I believe that granulated sugar (and perhaps corn sugar) is supposed to taste "cidery" when fermented out... I don't know. I make all kinds of fruit wines and often use table sugar to increase the ABV or indeed provide the yeast with any sugar content (wines made with flowers such as hibiscus, elderflower or heather have no fermentable sugars) . My palate is not educated enough to detect distinct "green apple flavors" in my wines. But then you age wines for many, many months before cracking open a bottle...  

Granulated table sugar (sucrose) will create cidery flavors, but corn sugar (dextrose) won't. It's very neutral and is recommended for boosting alcohol while avoiding cidery off-flavors. I, too, make many types of country wine and I use dextrose for raising ABV. You may not notice the "cideryness" from sucrose, but believe me, if you use dextrose instead, you will get a much better and brighter fruit profile in your wines. ;)

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Let me add a caveat to Josh's comment about sugar not affecting the flavor of the beer when priming.  That's IF you use sugar - corn sugar, beet sugar, table sugar, etc.  If you use something other than sugar, make sure you clearly understand the other flavors included that will be left when the sugar is gone.  Some leave behind a licorice flavor for example.  Brown sugar is made with molasses.  Molasses has a licorice flavor when the sugar is gone.  

 

The key here is that there is no reason to spend any money (sorry Mr. Beer carb drops) to get a better effect - you won't.  However, it is clearly much more convenient to drop a Mr. Beer carb drop (or two) into a bottle than it is to measure sugar, even with Mr. Beer's sugar measurer and a funnel (unless you are batch priming).  Or drop in the proper-sized sugar cube.  

 

Lastly, if you're using regular table sugar, try to use the reserve that your wife keeps in a container, not the sugar bowl that someone may dip their wet coffee spoon into.   ;)

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Like Rick, I have come to the conclusion that, "for all practical purposes", granulated sugar is the most efficient and economical all around choice for priming.  That works for me, but I ALWAYS  bow to the philosophies "to each his own" and "whatever works for you".

 

@Josh, the term "country wine" is new to me.  It may very well be something I'm familiar with only by a different name, but if you would be so kind, would you tell us what "country wine" is?  Just curious.  Thanks.  

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@Josh, the term "country wine" is new to me.  It may very well be something I'm familiar with only by a different name, but if you would be so kind, would you tell us what "country wine" is?  Just curious.  Thanks.  

"Country wine" is basically any wine that isn't made from grapes. They're usually made from other fruits such as apple, blackberry, citrus, etc.

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If you use the sugar cubes just make sure they are the ones 198 to the lb @ 0.5 tsp ea.

Domino does make larger ones, they do not fit.

Now going back to bottle Fluffalupagus and start Canadian Blonde with booster.

Yes.... I am using booster - lol.

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A LHBS owner told me the reason they recommend dextrose is it is a high profit item.  IE he makes more money than selling you table sugar same as with DME you need to use more because DME is not 100% fermentable.  Try it the old school way save enough of your initial wort for your priming solution.  Sugar does have a place in brewing.  Look at you English Ales, Saisons & Belgiums sugar is appropriate to the style.  Using sugar in your IPA's will really make your hops pop.  Learn to make sugar your friend.  Make your own candi sugars hard or soft.  Make them with fruit, flowers etc it will open up your brewing world.

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No. Sugar doesn't affect the flavor of the beer at all when used for priming. You can use any type of sugar for priming and it won't affect the flavor. For fermentation, however, you are using larger amounts of sugar and these can and will affect the flavor of your beer.

 

 

Granulated table sugar (sucrose) will create cidery flavors, but corn sugar (dextrose) won't. It's very neutral and is recommended for boosting alcohol while avoiding cidery off-flavors. I, too, make many types of country wine and I use dextrose for raising ABV. You may not notice the "cideryness" from sucrose, but believe me, if you use dextrose instead, you will get a much better and brighter fruit profile in your wines. ;)

Hmm... Dextrose may provide a different profile but I wonder what fruits naturally contain dextrose/glucose as opposed to sucrose and fructose. Corn sugar has its place in brewing ... not least in priming... but I am skeptical of its place in wine making. But that said, I am a scientist by nature (I refuse to accept received opinion without proof /evidence)... so I have a new project for 2015 and that is to make a couple of batches of elderflower wine - one using fructose/sucrose and one using glucose/dextrose and see how they compare.

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Hmm... Dextrose may provide a different profile but I wonder what fruits naturally contain dextrose/glucose as opposed to sucrose and fructose. Corn sugar has its place in brewing ... not least in priming... but I am skeptical of its place in wine making. But that said, I am a scientist by nature (I refuse to accept received opinion without proof /evidence)... so I have a new project for 2015 and that is to make a couple of batches of elderflower wine - one using fructose/sucrose and one using glucose/dextrose and see how they compare.

Dextrose, aka glucose, aka grape sugar, along with fructose, is one of the primary sugars found in wine grapes. Wikipedia has a better explanation than I can provide.

From Wikipedia: "During fermentation, yeast cells break down and convert glucose first. The linking of glucose molecules with aglycone, in a process that creates glycosides, also plays a role in the resulting flavor of the wine due to their relation and interactions with phenolic compounds like anthocyanins and terpenoids.

In most wines, there will be very little sucrose, since it is not a natural constituent of grapes and sucrose added for the purpose of chaptalisation will be consumed in the fermentation. The exception to this rule is Champagne and other sparkling wines, to which an amount of liqueur d'expédition (typically sucrose dissolved in a still wine) is added after the second fermentation in bottle, a practice known as dosage."

Grapes have been the main choice of fruit for wine for thousands of years because they naturally contain everything needed to make great wine. They have the tannins, the acids, and the sugars to create very palatable wine with minimal effort. Country wines, on the other hand, are usually made of other fruits and these fruits are usually deficient in certain things. Some fruits you may need to add pectic enzyme, while others you may need to add tannins, or whatever. That's why I prefer making country wines to grape wine - because they are more challenging. But, taking my cue from grapes, I prefer to use dextrose because it really helps bring out the flavor of fruit. My experience has shown this to be true and the science shows this to be true.

But where's the fun in not experimenting, right? With that said, let me know how your testing comes out. I'm interested to see the differences. I've done side-by-side tests before, but with more fruity wines. I think elderflower will really showcase the differences in sugars really well.

But I digress. This is a Mr. Beer forum, not a wine forum. But if you want to talk more about this subject, feel free to PM me anytime. :D

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I completely agree with you on that Josh.  It seems the difference will not be as appreciable over time, but seeing as I generally do not age my home wines for that long especially in wines (not sure if I have noticed anything in beer, but have migrated to 100% dextrose simply because I keep it on hand and forget how much I have and thus tend to buy a pound or so every time I brew).

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Corn sugar was recomended as a stable boost but should be observed as an adjunct,

 

I am interested in molasses and brown sugar now for stout rich dark beer. hmmm!

 

Cheers

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