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fruit beers no fruit flavor in the end.

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Hello, I have brewed a batch of raspberry Weissbier  I added a can of pureed raspberries  to my LBK let it ferment for three weeks. The beer turned out great but no fruit flavor. I had gotten the advise to add the puree of fruit the last week of fermenting, so I tried it with a blueberry bohemian. The beer turned out great but still no fruit flavor, can anyone tell me what wet wrong? Would fresh fruit be better. Thanks for any help I can get.

newbie Joshua

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No, fresh fruit would not be better.  The truth is that the fruit flavor pretty much is all created by sugar, which gets eaten by the yeast. 

 

I've brewed with cherries, blueberries, and raspberries.  The ONLY one with any fruit flavor left was the raspberry, added after a week.

 

if you want fruit flavor, add extract or flavoring oils at time of bottling.

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Hello, I have brewed a batch of raspberry Weissbier  I added a can of pureed raspberries  to my LBK let it ferment for three weeks. The beer turned out great but no fruit flavor. I had gotten the advise to add the puree of fruit the last week of fermenting, so I tried it with a blueberry bohemian. The beer turned out great but still no fruit flavor, can anyone tell me what wet wrong? Would fresh fruit be better. Thanks for any help I can get.

newbie Joshua

Speaking from a wine making perspective you really need to use a great deal of fruit in each gallon to highlight the flavor of the fruit. In my opinion, you want to use about 4 or 5 lbs of fruit in each gallon. Now, you are not making a raspberry wine but flavoring your beer with raspeberries... but think about this for a minute: You have - what ? Two gallons of liquor (the beer) and you are adding how much raspberry? You have diluted the can with 2 gallons of beer. How much raspberry flavor is that likely to produce? IMO, it is a little like passing a tea bag over the top of a cup of boiling water and hoping that the tea will have added flavor to the water... OK I exaggerate but not by much....

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But you cannot add that much to beer. http://community.mrbeer.com/topic/6910-new-brewers-please-read-malt-to-adjunct-ratios/ Two cans per batch (30 ounces) is max recommended, and that is pushing it.

That's why the use of oils or fruit extract is recommended.

Totally agree... and so your solution - to use extracts or oils seems to be right on the money. A few drops of extract or a drop of the essential oil is probably enough to flavor a couple of gallons but if you use the fruit itself then the volume of wort dilutes that flavor into oblivion. The one exception I can think of is perhaps to use pressed juice from the fruit in place of water ... In other words, if you were to take enough berries or pomegranates or the like to express enough juice to make 2 gallons and then dissolve the LME in that juice you will have enough flavor... but you will also have about 30 or 40 points of sugar from fructose and you may also introduce wild yeasts and other bacteria into your wort. (wine makers use K-meta to eliminate any self innoculating yeasts)... Not sure how such a beer will fit within  BJCP style sheets ... but then I am less interested in  making my beers fit a profile and more interested in making the beers I brew taste good

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So true about the extracts. I've found using canned fruit in beer to be a total waste of time and mkney. I plan to use any remaining cans of fruit I purchased for beer to make wine instead. I'll only use extracts at bottling time for fruit flavor in beer from now.

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I've been considering that recipe.  I was disappointed in Breckinridge's Vanilla Porter; too much vanilla, not enough porter.  I'd like to see if I could do better sometime.

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What are your guy's thoughts on this.  

 

Just brewed up the Bavarian Weissbier tonight and plan to add a can purred Oregon's raspberries along with 1oz of raspberry exact at the two week mark.  Then let it go another week in the fermenter.  Cold crash then bottle.

 

The extract is Brewer's Best and calls for 4-5oz per 5 gallon batch.

 

Is this a good amount for the extract or too much since I will be adding the can of raspberries?

 

I believe Jim says he typically does a mix of real fruit and extract to get the best flavors.

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I put 1 can of Oregon Dark cherries in with 1 HME and 1 LME.  I'm 1 week from bottle so I decided to add 0.5oz of Cascade to it.  The cherry aroma is amazing.

Used S-23 at 55F.

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What extract flavors are the most desirable?  I think we can probably help with that.

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Cherry, peach, pear, apple, kiwi-strawberry...

 

Vanilla, hazelnut, cocoa, caramel

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Cherry, peach, pear, apple, kiwi-strawberry...

 

Vanilla, hazelnut, cocoa, caramel

+1 for these flavors. In my experience working at homebrew supply stores, vanilla, hazelnut, peach, strawberry, cherry, chocolate, and apple were all big sellers. Anything berry, too, especially blueberry and raspberry/blackberry. 

For fruit flavoring, extracts are so much easier to work with than fruit, and they also won't cloud your beer like fruit potentially can if pasteurized too hot. Like Jim, I also usually to do a mix. Fruit tends to add some body and extra sugars, while the extract will add back any aroma or flavor that was lost during fermentation.

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If you batch prime, at bottling, into the batch priming container.

 

If you bottle prime, it's more of a challenge, because measuring the right amount into a bottle can be difficult.  And, putting it in the LBK just before bottling doesn't get it distributed, and you don't want to stir.  In that case, I'd add it about a week before bottling and give it a GENTLE stir.  You may see increased activity a day or so after.

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So best tbing to do would be add fruit in last week or two of fermentation. Then a table spoon of extract per bottle (12oz).

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I agree in method, but unsure of amount per bottle. I use 2 oz in 5 gal(batch prime). I usually get 50 - 51 12 oz bottles from a 5 gal batch(yes, I admit to crude methods in measuring water amounts). That would be .24 teaspoons per bottle assuming 50(check my math).

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The Lorann oils are 1 dram per 5 gallons.  A dram is 3/4 of a teaspoon, so that would be 3/8 of a teaspoon for 2.5 gallons.

 

Brewer's Best flavoring comes in a 4 oz bottle per 5 gallons, so that would be 2 oz per 2.5 gallons.

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I get BSG from my lhbs.

 

got me talkin about this, now I think I'm going to brew a blackberry saison next week :)

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I have a local brew store about 5 miles from my house.  One of these days...

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Im simply taking notes. Thanks alot this is all gonna be great when i start doing my own recipes.

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A bit late to the party, but I like to use Lorann's.

http://www.homebrewing.org/Lorann-Flavoring-Oils_c_281.html

 

Since I hate measuring, I usually use 1/2 bottle for LBK and a full bottle for 5 gallons.  Have the peanutbutter and almond flavors right now as SWMBO has a hankering for a Mounds Stout.  Down the road I may just try an Almond Joy version.

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I made the Mr. Beer Cherry Wheat recipe and was thoroughly disappointed in the results.  The can of cherries just gave the beer a pinkish color, none of the cherry taste came through and the beer has a slight wine taste.  It's difficult to drink and enjoy.

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I made the Mr. Beer Cherry Wheat recipe and was thoroughly disappointed in the results.  The can of cherries just gave the beer a pinkish color, none of the cherry taste came through and the beer has a slight wine taste.  It's difficult to drink and enjoy.

Interesting... I'm about to bottle my dark cherry lager on Sunday (tonight is DR).  But last week I was dry hopping and it smelled amazingly like cherry.  I only used 1 can of Oregon dark cherries, 1 HME, and 1 LME.

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That's the thing with using fruit, like late-hopping, you're really going to get more aroma than flavor. I just did one of our Booberry Cider recipes and it has the pleasant aroma of blueberries, but the blueberry flavor is barely detectable.

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That's the thing with using fruit, like late-hopping, you're really going to get more aroma than flavor. I just did one of our Booberry Cider recipes and it has the pleasant aroma of blueberries, but the blueberry flavor is barely detectable.

Which is great imo.  If I wanted it taste like cherries, I would have made cherry wine or something.

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so if you bottle prime is it worth adding the extract in a week prior with the possibility of something going wrong such as an infection or causing increased activity?

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You could, but you're unlikely to get any increased activity other than the yeast consuming the priming sugar. Plus the beer (and sometimes the extract, depending on the brand) has alcohol in it and can potentially lessen the risk of infection at this stage (You should still sanitize everything that touches the beer, regardless). When using extracts, it's best to add them at bottling.

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And if the extracts are sugar based (High fructose corn syrup) does that change how much sugar I want to add at bottling? I have BSG

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thanks for the reply josh. i get that adding at bottling is better but i have no idea how much i would want to add to each bottle. also do you add the extract  in after the carb drops and beer or before the beer if you do it at bottling?

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What extract flavors are the most desirable?  I think we can probably help with that.

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thanks for the reply josh. i get that adding at bottling is better but i have no idea how much i would want to add to each bottle. also do you add the extract  in after the carb drops and beer or before the beer if you do it at bottling?

I recommend batch priming instead of priming in the bottles. Most recipes call for 4oz of extract in a 5 gallon batch, but some brewers find this to be too strong. Use about 1oz, then taste. If it's not strong enough, add more. Keep adding until you feel it's to your liking. Add the extract to your bottling bucket (or whatever you're batch priming in), then add your beer. That way you know it's nice and mixed in. Stir it gently, but don't splash and don't stir for too long (you want to minimize oxygen exposure as much as possible).

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thanks again josh, though right now my option is bottle priming. im sure i will get to the point where i can batch prime though. i guess my main 2 question then are how much doyou think i should start out with adding to a liter bottle and before or after putting the beer in the bottle?

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thanks again josh, though right now my option is bottle priming. im sure i will get to the point where i can batch prime though. i guess my main 2 question then are how much doyou think i should start out with adding to a liter bottle and before or after putting the beer in the bottle?

Honestly, I'm terrible at math. lol. I'm sure someone else here is much better at it than I am. In the end, though, it's all about how much flavor you want. But you should put the extract in first so the beer mixes with it when you bottle.

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Assuming 8 one liter bottles, then .75 teaspoons each for 1 oz of extract.  While I don't think it really matters before or after. I'd put it in before the ale so the ale going in can mix it well. 

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Assuming 8 one liter bottles, then .75 teaspoons each for 1 oz of extract.  While I don't think it really matters before or after. I'd put it in before the ale so the ale going in can mix it well. 

I knew someone here would have better math skills than me...lol. :D

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If you think 2oz is the maximum for 1 LBK, then that would mean 0.25oz per 1 liter bottle MAXIMUM.

 

However, if you add per bottle, then you run the risk of inconsistent flavor throughout your batch.  I would recommend to flavor your entire batch, give a few stirs, let settle, then taste.

If you need more then add it.  Otherwise, you can now bottle and every bottle will taste the same and you don't have to worry about individual additions of flavoring and breaking it down in tiny measurements.  (who wants to use an eye dropper???)

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JoshR, on 17 Feb 2015 - 4:25 PM, said:

I knew someone here would have better math skills than me...lol. :D

Math?  I don't do no stinking math!  :lol:  I entered it in a search line, pressed enter. There was an answer, just like a miracle.  :huh:   

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thanks jim and my apologies, i actually meant 3/4 a liter

I'd stick with the .75 tsp. The 1oz I gave you for the batch was a low number. Like I said, typically, a 5 gallon batch would have 4oz, so figure about 1 - 2 oz per batch. 2oz being very strong. 

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BTW, just Amazon'd Peach, Kiwi-Strawberry, and Raspberry.

 

I got some plans...

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If you think 2oz is the maximum for 1 LBK, then that would mean 0.25oz per 1 liter bottle MAXIMUM.

 

However, if you add per bottle, then you run the risk of inconsistent flavor throughout your batch.  I would recommend to flavor your entire batch, give a few stirs, let settle, then taste.

If you need more then add it.  Otherwise, you can now bottle and every bottle will taste the same and you don't have to worry about individual additions of flavoring and breaking it down in tiny measurements.  (who wants to use an eye dropper???)

EXACTLY. Flavoring to taste using the whole batch is SO much easier.

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i could be way off but for the purpose of getting it into the bottle with a dropper im thinking then about 6ml for each 740ml bottle?

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i could be way off but for the purpose of getting it into the bottle with a dropper im thinking then about 6ml for each 740ml bottle?

I guess if you must.....

 

Here's some good ole algebra:

 

0.25oz/liter=X/740ml

 

5.5ml per 740ml bottle

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ahh i was close! 

Again...

that's MAXIMUM

You would want to start around 2-3ml and taste...

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thanks vakko that was another question of mine was is that the min or max amount. ill say this is more for my wife, granted she likes an ok amount of beer she def prefers more fruit beers

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I'm planning on using Lorann extracts (1 dram per 5 gallon batch is roughly equal to one drop per 12 oz bottle) on my upcoming fruit wheat beer).  I plan on buying their eyedroppers which fit on their jars to do that.  

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What are your guy's thoughts on this.  

 

Just brewed up the Bavarian Weissbier tonight and plan to add a can purred Oregon's raspberries along with 1oz of raspberry exact at the two week mark.  Then let it go another week in the fermenter.  Cold crash then bottle.

 

The extract is Brewer's Best and calls for 4-5oz per 5 gallon batch.

 

Is this a good amount for the extract or too much since I will be adding the can of raspberries?

 

I believe Jim says he typically does a mix of real fruit and extract to get the best flavors.

Can you just add extracts to the LBK before bottling? Aren't you supposed to add extracts at bottling time and not during fermentation. I also thought you should transfer your beer to another LBK or or another container such as a slimline before adding the extract.

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BrianBrew, on 18 Feb 2015 - 10:20 AM, said:

Can you just add extracts to the LBK before bottling? Aren't you supposed to add extracts at bottling time and not during fermentation. I also thought you should transfer your beer to another LBK or or another container such as a slimline before adding the extract.

No I would not add the extract to the LBK, you'd have to stir and that'd disturb the yeast cake. I put the fruit in the fermenter, the extract I add to the sugar solution when I batch prime. So yes, I use a bottling bucket. The only other way would be to add the extract to each bottle. Sounds like waaaay too much work to me.

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I'm planning on using Lorann extracts (1 dram per 5 gallon batch is roughly equal to one drop per 12 oz bottle) on my upcoming fruit wheat beer).  I plan on buying their eyedroppers which fit on their jars to do that.  

Are you going to just add a drop to each bottle? I have made some good beers using canned fruit. I always use two cans and wait a week or two before adding them to the LBK. I've used blackberries, sweet cherries, tart cherries, apricot, blueberries, raspberries and mango. I am thinking about using extracts and could use some guidance on the process. Thanks.

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I am going to add a drop to each GLASS, then pour in the bottle.  

 

My experience with canned fruit is that little flavor survives.  I've done blueberries, cherries multiple times, and raspberries.

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No I would not add the extract to the LBK, you'd have to stir and that'd disturb the yeast cake. I put the fruit in the fermenter, the extract I add to the sugar solution when I batch prime. So yes, I use a bottling bucket. The only other way would be to add the extract to each bottle. Sounds like waaaay too much work to me.

Thanks Jim, That's what I thought, but noticed that baup5f added extract directly yo the LBK during fermentation. Just trying to help someone out and learn more about the process myself as I am thinking about using extracts.

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I've yet to actually do anything yet.  Feb 23 will be two weeks in the LBK for my wheat.  At this point I will add the can of purred raspberries for sure.  

 

Still debating on the extract.  I know the typical way to do extracts is to rack over to a bottling container with your priming sugar.  This also gives better control as you can add just a little, taste, then adjust and add more if needed.

 

At this point I do not have a bottling container.  My thought with adding the extract with the raspberries at the two week mark is that it would give a week for the extract to mix in with the beer and then bottle directly from the LBK.

 

I have been doing searches this morning on other forums and have found a handful of people that added the extract during secondary without problems.

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I've yet to actually do anything yet.  Feb 23 will be two weeks in the LBK for my wheat.  At this point I will add the can of purred raspberries for sure.  

 

Still debating on the extract.  I know the typical way to do extracts is to rack over to a bottling container with your priming sugar.  This also gives better control as you can add just a little, taste, then adjust and add more if needed.

 

At this point I do not have a bottling container.  My thought with adding the extract with the raspberries at the two week mark is that it would give a week for the extract to mix in with the beer and then bottle directly from the LBK.

 

I have been doing searches this morning on other forums and have found a handful of people that added the extract during secondary without problems.

Secondary would very similar to a bottling bucket, though.

 

I would like to know how someone does this with positive results though.  I'm making the Apricot Wheat soon and plan on adding Peach extract to it.  I don't have a bottling bucket.  I will either have to pick one up or figure out how to transfer my fermented beer to another LBK that is A) not in use <unlikely> and B) clean, sanitized, and dry.

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Secondary would very similar to a bottling bucket, though.

I would like to know how someone does this with positive results though. I'm making the Apricot Wheat soon and plan on adding Peach extract to it. I don't have a bottling bucket. I will either have to pick one up or figure out how to transfer my fermented beer to another LBK that is A) not in use <unlikely> and B) clean, sanitized, and dry.

You pretty much got it. Any bottling bucket, including another LBK will do. The trick is to be able to gently swirl in the extract without getting all the trub back up into the beer. If you just can't find anything, then heck, just siphon or spigot the beer from the LBK into any pot or bucket it will fit in, gently of course, then sanitize the LBK and put it back in again to bottle from. Sometimes a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do.
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SlimLine for a bottling container - Link

 

Your local Wally World probably carries these.  Website says store only.

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whats the purpose of adding the canned fruit in later during fermentation vs right away?

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whats the purpose of adding the canned fruit in later during fermentation vs right away?

To retain more flavor.  Fruit is mostly sugar.  When you add it later on, less sugar will be consumed.

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To retain more flavor.  Fruit is mostly sugar.  When you add it later on, less sugar will be consumed.

But eventually, as long as there is still yeast, the sugar will eventually disappear.

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whats the purpose of adding the canned fruit in later during fermentation vs right away?

This, and some other recent questions, are often asked and answered on the forum.

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whats the purpose of adding the canned fruit in later during fermentation vs right away?

The thing is, as I understand it, that during the early, vigorous fermentation, so much of the flavor and the aroma of the fruit is simply absorbed and carried away by the CO2 gas that is formed escapes. Later on, when the fermentation is less vigorous, we hope that less of it escapes. Of course, the very introduction of the fruit and all it's sugars will reinvigorate the process, anyway, which is why it's a minimaaly efficient way to infuse the fruit flavor into beer. This is why adding fruit extracts at bottling is widely considered as the preferred method.

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whats the purpose of adding the canned fruit in later during fermentation vs right away?

Also, the primary fermentation period can release too much pectin into your batch leaving you with a very cloudy beer (this can also negatively effect the mouthfeel depending on fruit used). Putting it in after the main fermentation period will minimize this.

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blueberry extract came in today! looking forward to using it. now when i add the fruit in after a week of fermenting i simply just take the top of the lbk and put the fruit in correct? or do you have to transfer the beer first? also is there a reason why the extract cant be placed in the beer along with the fruit at the 1 week mark?

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blueberry extract came in today! looking forward to using it. now when i add the fruit in after a week of fermenting i simply just take the top of the lbk and put the fruit in correct? or do you have to transfer the beer first? also is there a reason why the extract cant be placed in the beer along with the fruit at the 1 week mark?

 

We're talking about two things - fruit and extract.

 

Fruit - you do NOT just put it in.  Did you read the directions for the Blue Patriot?

 

  1. In your sanitized blender, purée both cans of fruit with the syrup, and set aside to add later. 

Key things - a sanitized blender where you puree' the fruit.

 

Then, open the lid and GENTLY pour in the fruit and then close the lid.  Should be open for like 10 - 15 seconds max.  

 

Extract - why would you not put it in with the fruit?  Because the longer it's in there the more flavor wafts away.  If you're not going to batch prime, then add the extract a week before bottling.

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I started making blackberry weizenbock last week  and already bought the 2 cans of blackberries before I read this thread, when is the best time to add fruit to maintain some fruit flavor?

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I started making blackberry weizenbock last week  and already bought the 2 cans of blackberries before I read this thread, when is the best time to add fruit to maintain some fruit flavor?

 

 

I put mine in after 2 weeks the beer has been in the LBK. Leave for 1 more week and bottle.

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According to that recipe, put it now.  Then wait TWO (2) weeks and bottle.

 

Personal recommendation:  if you have a spare muslin bag, don't puree, mash.  It will make your beer so much clearer.

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Puree in a sanitized blender, gently pour in now. In 10-14 days cold crash for 3 days.

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I too am doing the blue patriot now and this thread has been very helpful. Ive been fermenting at 63-66°F and added the pureed blueberries at day #7. It is now day #14. If i understand correctly i am to now add about 2ozs of the blueberry extract (BSG brand) to the LBK and continue for 1 more week before bottling because i am not doing a batch prime and im not going to add the extract directly into the bottle. On the right path? Thanks!

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I thought you should not add extract directly to the LBK during fermentation and should add extracts at bottling. I also thought you should use a separate container to do this.

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OP specifically said they are NOT going to batch prime.  Therefore, unless you're going to figure out how much to add to each bottle and measure it properly, adding it to the LBK (WITHOUT STIRRING) is the only way to get it into the brew.  Doing it a week prior ensures it mixes.

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may be a dumb question but can you use extract you get in the baking ilse or at a bulk food store(the bulk barn here in ontario) or does it have to a brewers specific extract? 

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OP specifically said they are NOT going to batch prime.  Therefore, unless you're going to figure out how much to add to each bottle and measure it properly, adding it to the LBK (WITHOUT STIRRING) is the only way to get it into the brew.  Doing it a week prior ensures it mixes.

Batch prime or not you can still put your beer in another container to add the extract. Also TheCapeman is using both canned fruit and the recommended amount of extract for a 2 gallon batch.

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Why would someone go through the trouble of moving the beer to another container to add extract and not add the sugar at the same time (batch priming)?  That makes no sense.  Seemed pretty clear to me that TheCapeman wanted to accomplish adding fruit and extract in the LBK with no additional containers, so that's the information they've been provided with.

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Why would someone go through the trouble of moving the beer to another container to add extract and not add the sugar at the same time (batch priming)?  That makes no sense.  Seemed pretty clear to me that TheCapeman wanted to accomplish adding fruit and extract in the LBK with no additional containers, so that's the information they've been provided with.

It's not that much trouble if you want to do it the right way. Adding a domino dot to each bottle isn't very difficult either.

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Last comment in this thread for me.  Domino dots are a great solution for someone wanting to bottle prime and save the expense of carbonation drops.  Yet they are still more expensive than table sugar.

 

If someone is going through the trouble to transfer the wort to a bottling bucket or slimline to add fruit flavoring, which requires gently mixing with the wort, spending the money on anything beyond table sugar to prime their beer is just wasting money.  Batch priming provides uniform results, and since someone would already have their wort in the bottling bucket or slimline clearly would be the way to go.

 

Put a cup of water in a pot, add the sugar, bring the water to a boil while stirring, stick the pot (with a sanitized lid) into another pot with ice and water in it and come back in 15 minutes.  Pick up the pot, wipe off the dripping water, and pour the liquid into the bottling bucket / slimline.  Pour in the fruit extract, transfer the wort.

 

I try to provide answers to the questions people ask.  When someone asks how to add extract without using a secondary bottling bucket / slimline, I tell them how.

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