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Rye ESB

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Went into the LHBS yesterday to get ingredients for an LBK extract ESB recipe. They were out of Maris Otter extract, so I decided to switch up on the fly to a Rye ESB. I'm using Rye extract (70% base / 20% rye / 10% caramel 40L) and steeping Maris Otter grains. It'll be beyond the bitter end for an ESB, but that's my preference.

 

Would love to hear thoughts on this recipe. Planning to brew in about 2 weeks.

 

1lb Maris Otter grain, crushed - steep

3.3lbs Rye extract

 

1oz Magnum - 30 minutes

1oz EKG - 10 minutes

1oz EKG - 0 minutes

 

Safale S-04

 

Thanks-

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Maris Otter is by far the best quality 2-row out there, in my opinion. I love anything rye so I think this will turn out nicely. The Magnum is a great bittering hop and the earthy and aromatic EKG will go well with the spiciness of the rye. This is going to make a nice English style rye ESB. I would probably scale the hops back to half oz each for a 2 gallon batch. 3oz of hops is a bit much for a 2 gallon ESB. Other than that, I wouldn't change anything else.  :)

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Sounds great to me, may have to try this one myself.  Thanks for sharing!

 

The brew-on-premises site I frequent has an ESB recipe that features Magnum hops.  It's one of my favorites, so much so that I brewed a batch of it as the centerpiece of my 50th birthday celebration (more years ago than I'd like to remember).

 

Keep us informed on the progress of this one.

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If your LHBS carries flaked rye I'd add, say 4 oz to the steep. Flaked has a different flavor than malt.  Just IMO as a ryeaholic

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I did a similar recipe using us-05 and a lb of light Dme.  It was initially  pretty hot and with the rye spice was too impactful BUT with some added conditioning time it finished up wonderfully.

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Thanks for the responses. Really appreciate Josh's suggestion on hops and Jim's suggestion on flaked rye - so much so, that I'm not planning to follow either one on this batch  :). I like my beer hoppy - and realize that a hoppy ESB might not be an ESB at all, but that's OK with me. I'll keep both suggestions in mind for future iterations once I get this one through quality control.

 

One change I'm contemplating is adding oats to the steep. I've been steeping carapils or crystal in most of my brews for a while, sometimes in combination with oats. I like the mouthfeel / head retention result - wondering if I'll get the same with the Maris Otter steep, or if the addition of some oats would help.

 

Thanks again-

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Unlike carapils and crystal malts, Maris Otter is just a basic 2-row base malt. It won't contribute much to the body or head retention. Since it's a base malt and the starches have not been converted, it can't technically be steeped, it needs to be mashed. But with that said, you could always do a mini-mash:
 

  • Soak the crushed Maris Otter in 160 degree water - about 1.5qt water per pound of grain - the combined grain/water should settle around 148-154 degrees.
  • After 30 minutes, add additional water to bring the temperature up to 160.
  • Then add any other specialty malts (if any) and leave for another 30 minutes.
  • Optionally, rinse the grains in fresh 176 degree water to get more sugars out.

During the initial soak at 150, the enzymes in the Maris Otter will break down the starch into the simpler sugars you want in the wort. Plus, these enzymes will also help break down unconverted starch in the other specialty malts that you would normally steep, giving you slightly better efficiency. Keep in mind these sugars will boost your abv, and they will also slightly boost the body and flavor, but not as much as flaked barley, wheat, or oats will.

 

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Was very curious about this so I picked up a "terrapin" rye pale ale. While it was an enjoyable beer, as most beers are, didn't get rye flavor like I was expecting. I'm thinking I want to brew my own. Without going overboard on rye flavor how can I ensure to get SOME?

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I use 28% rye in my Bengal in the Rye(Cincinnati Common) ...you can defiantly taste it (by the book your only suppose to use 10% rye in the grist) "Overboard" is a relative thing only you know what's too much for you. You could also get some flaked rye and steep it that'll add some rye flavor.

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How did it taste on bottling day?

 

Me? Well my answer would be worthless, no where near the same grain bill assuming your making a RyePA, mine is more porter like. However, I can taste the Choco and L120 malts and a real sharp bitter(that's the rye as well as the hops) I also use maize and it's not at all unusual for it to have a faint cider taste at the bottling stage.  I can tell you the rye will make it taste like the IBUs are higher(my CC is 20 IBUs but tastes more like 30 to me) and you will have head issues(rye kills head) 

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I put about a quarter pound of milled carapils in mine. Hope that does the job.

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I milled a pound of Maris otter

Fourth pound of carapils

Half pound rye malt

And 3.3 pounds of rye malt extract

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I milled a pound of Maris otter

Fourth pound of carapils

Half pound rye malt

And 3.3 pounds of rye malt extract

what's your hop schedule?

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.5 ounces each

Kent goldings at 30 mins

Kent goldings at 15

Cascade at. 5

Wasn't wanting to make a RYE PA

Low alpha acid

Just wanted flavor and aroma

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your doing a partial mash...you got to boil that wort for 1 hour to drive off DMS. so use the time do an hour bitter boil (you may have to adjust the amount), 15 and 5 are ok.

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From reading that it's probably good

thanks, if you let it age 6-7 weeks in the bottle it gets really good.

 

It did boil for an hour. 30 mins before first hop added

See? I don't get that, if you use the hour you need less hops to get the same IBUs(I FWH).

 

post-59190-0-13370100-1431311728_thumb.j

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What a miserable disaster!!!!!! Fermented for 3 weeks. It smelled great and tasted awesome before bottling. I let it condition for 6 weeks, chilled a couple and opened them with my friend that assisted in the whole process. Tasted nothing but green apple. Mostly flat green apple to be more precise. Should I have done a secondary fermentation? Any advise is appreciated.

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Secondaries are seldom needed, if ever.  I've never done one.

 

S-04 yeast -   what temp did you ferment at?  What was your OG, your FG?  Did you taste it prior to bottling?

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OP here - sorry to slightly hijack McD's question. Seeing this pop up reminded me to post an update - coincidentally I just got around to brewing this 2 nights ago. Life got in the way of my original schedule, but that happily included getting a temp-controlled chest freezer ferm chamber. It's good to have a software-hardware engineer / survivalist neighbor who likes to trade his expertise for free homebrew.

 

Here's the QBrew of what I ended up with. Per Josh's instruction earlier in the thread I did a mini-mash on my MO grain - hope I got it right, it just seemed like an double-stage extended steep with a rinse. The 04 seems to be happily working away about 36 hours in at this point.

 

Porridge Pub Rye
Recipe Porridge Pub Rye Style Extra Special/Strong Bitter (English Pale Ale)
Brewer 209Hill Batch 2.25 gal
Partial Mash
 
Recipe Characteristics
Recipe Gravity 1.070 OG Estimated FG 1.017 FG
Recipe Bitterness 61 IBU Alcohol by Volume 6.8%
Recipe Color 11° SRM Alcohol by Weight 5.3%
 
Ingredients
Quantity Grain Type Use
1.00 lb Flaked Oats [briess] Adjunct Steeped
1.00 lb Maris Otter Malt - [Nutty] Grain Mashed
3.15 lb Northern Brewer - Rye Malt Syrup Extract Extract
Quantity Hop Type Time
1.00 oz Kent Goldings (U.K.) - Pellet 5 minutes
1.00 oz Kent Goldings (U.K.) - Pellet 0 minutes
1.00 oz Magnum - 30 minutes
Quantity Misc Notes
1.00 unit Safale S-04 Dry Ale Yeast Yeast English: Temperature Range: 59°-75° F medium attenuation with medium to high flocculation
Recipe Notes
Batch Notes

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Secondaries are seldom needed, if ever. I've never done one.

S-04 yeast - what temp did you ferment at? What was your OG, your FG? Did you taste it prior to bottling?

S-04 safale

OG

1.066

FG

1.022

66-68 degrees

The entire recipe is further back on the post.

The taste I obviously took at FG did not exhibit the green apple flavor at all.

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Closing this out from the OP - I bottled my Rye ESB back in the early part of August. It turned out good, not great. Like one of the earlier posts in the thread mentioned, it's a bit hot with rye spice for my taste. I'm planning to give it some extended conditioning time before sampling some more. I also think I put too much hops in the recipe - I feel like the EKG and rye are really competing with each other - again, hoping some extended conditioning helps.

 

If I were to brew this again, I'd cut the hops in half (per Josh's original suggestion) and would consider using pale LME rather than rye LME but add flaked rye to the steep to control how heavy the rye comes through.

 

Thanks for the discussion on this.

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