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Vakko

Noche de Luna comes with 1.2oz of hops?

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RECIPE INCLUDES: 
1 Can Aztec Mexican Cerveza HME 
1 Packet Dry Brewing Yeast (under lid of HME) 
2 BrewMax LME SoftPack - Smooth 
1 1.2 oz. Packet Tettnanger Pellet Hops 
1 Muslin Hop Sack 
1 Packet No-Rinse Cleanser 

 

Do you have this pre-packaged or does the shipping department have to measure this out?

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Oops!

 

That's supposed to be a single 1/2oz. packet of hops.

 

Sorry for the mistake, and thanks for the catch!

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Help! I am a newbie and decided to make Noche de Luna as my second batch.  Unfortunately I followed the recipe using 1.2 ounces of hops. The batch is currently fermenting (has been just a bit over two weeks) so I pulled out the sack of hops and gave it a taste. Still seems pretty cidery at this point so it is hard to tell how it will end up. Any suggestions? Should I dump it and start over or go ahead and bottle and see what happens? I hate to waste a couple of months conditioning just to find out it is undrinkable.

 

Also thanks to all on this board, I have been reading quite a bit and most of the comments have been very helpful.

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Welcome to the forum, we recommend; 3 weeks in the fermenter and 4 in the bottle @ room temp. Never dump beer(unless it smells like a septic tank). It may not be what you intended, but still might turn out to be the best brew you ever make.

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Can only speak for myself and I have never tried to make a batch of Noche de Luna but I cannot honestly imagine any reason to "dump" any batch of beer unless the beer itself has become infected or badly spoiled with really undesirable bacteria. All you have done is added more flavor and aroma hops than the recipe calls for... Your accident may in fact improve the flavor. Cannot imagine that the end result will be "undrinkable"... Worse comes to worse  you can always make a second batch with less dry hops and blend the two...

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I also cannot imagine that putting in 0.7 oz of aroma hops is going to impact anything in a negative way.  Of course, if one ordered the recipe from Mr. Beer and it came with 1.2 oz of hops, you should have that discussion with them. If you simply read the recipe online, bought ingredients on your own, and added 1.2 oz of hops, then that's life.

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Thanks to all for the quick replys. My first batch I left in the fermenter for 3 weeks and is now starting its 4th week in the bottle. Tried one at 3 weeks and it definitely needs a few more weeks of conditioning. I appreciate the instructional posts,  had I followed the instructions that came with the kit I would have been pretty disappointed with the results.

 

As to the Noche de Luna, I would think that more than doubling the hops would cause the beer to taste much more like an IPA. I'm not that fond of hoppy beers so I was thinking of adding some LME and letting it ferment for another two weeks before bottling. Any thoughts? I assume that adding LME would increase the ABV somewhat, and also cause the beer to need some extra conditioning.

 

I am putting "proofread recipes before publishing" in the Mr. Beer suggestion box...............

 

 

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There are three things that hops can do to a beer based on WHEN You add them - bittering, flavor, and aroma.  Adding hops right when you pour into the LBK, as this recipe calls for, is only going to affect AROMA, not taste.  So it's not going to taste more like an IPA because you doubled the hops, but it may SMELL more like an IPA.  It won't be a "hoppy" beer from adding aroma hops.

 

8.8 oz of LME will add a point to ABV.  As you can see from the recipe, it already has two packs of LME in it, adding a third would make no sense at all.  

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I just tasted a bottle of Noche de Luna I brewed using 1.2 oz of hops.  It was fine.  To be honest, I didn't really get much hop aroma from it at all.

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Having realized that I put in 1.2 oz. of hops instead of 1/2 oz. I pulled the muslin sack of hops out of the wort. After reading up on hops and considering the thoughts shared on this thread I figured what the heck and tossed in the remaining .3 oz. of hops that I had left over. I left the wort in the LBK for another week or so and cold crashed. As RickBeer has noted it helped clarify the beer quite a bit. I bottled yesterday and will leave it for at least a month to condition at room temp. I am looking forward to this one, trying to decide what to make next.

 

Macdude, how long did you let this one condition?

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OK OK... so did your ingredients include a package of 1.2oz of hops?  Because that would be a first.

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Having realized that I put in 1.2 oz. of hops instead of 1/2 oz. I pulled the muslin sack of hops out of the wort. After reading up on hops and considering the thoughts shared on this thread I figured what the heck and tossed in the remaining .3 oz. of hops that I had left over. I left the wort in the LBK for another week or so and cold crashed. As RickBeer has noted it helped clarify the beer quite a bit. I bottled yesterday and will leave it for at least a month to condition at room temp. I am looking forward to this one, trying to decide what to make next.

 

Macdude, how long did you let this one condition?

This is where the OG matters. The OG tells you how long. 1.0X0 the X says how many weeks to condition, minimum.

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No, I bought three 1/2 oz. packages of Hallertau hops and the LME. I had the Aztec from the original kit but wanted to try a different recipe.

 

Jim I just picked up a hydrometer will test OG and FG on my next batch. I am curious, why use OG rather FG in your estimate of conditioning time?

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Because the amount of fermentables is the indicator.  If your FG is .008 that would indicate your probable OG was .049. I see no way to make the .008 = 4 (might as well call it 5) weeks. Never mind that the brew could've either under or over attenuated making your conversion invalid.

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I like where his head is at.  You would think that taking the difference between OG and FG would be a more accurate way to predict conditioning time.  OG doesn't consider unfermentables and FG can actually fluctuate due to that.

 

But since it's also a subjective testing measure, there's no "you have to" point in conditioning.  The idea is that more sugar consumed produces more off flavors that need to be consumed as well.  There's no actual way to tell when this point has happened without using a chemistry set.  So you use your tastebuds.  Some people might prefer the been "greener" than others and some yeast might be more effective than others.

 

So is 1.0X0 accurate?  No.  But it does put the shot on the target.  It's no bullseye but it's better than tasting every week wondering if it's ready or not.

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[quote name="Badgerfan" post="413431" timestamp="1429478834"

Macdude, how long did you let this one condition?

Having realized that I put in 1.2 oz. of hops instead of 1/2 oz. I pulled the muslin sack of hops out of the wort. After reading up on hops and considering the thoughts shared on this thread I figured what the heck and tossed in the remaining .3 oz. of hops that I had left over. I left the wort in the LBK for another week or so and cold crashed. As RickBeer has noted it helped clarify the beer quite a bit. I bottled yesterday and will leave it for at least a month to condition at room temp. I am looking forward to this one, trying to decide what to make next.

 

Macdude, how long did you let this one condition?

It was 4 weeks old when I tried it. It still needed time so I waited a couple of more weeks and threw one in the fridge yesterday. haven't tried it yet.

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Why and when did you pull the hop sack? During fermentation? Before bottling? The biggest problem I see is possibly infecting the beer not it possibly being too hoppy.

Mr. Beer's recipes are their concoctions using mostly MB ingredients not the holy grail. I made the Noche de Luna with my own twist as a lager with one ounce of German Tettnanger hops.

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Why and when did you pull the hop sack? During fermentation? Before bottling? The biggest problem I see is possibly infecting the beer not it possibly being too hoppy.

Mr. Beer's recipes are their concoctions using mostly MB ingredients not the holy grail. I made the Noche de Luna with my own twist as a lager with one ounce of German Tettnanger hops.

 

I pulled the hop sack out after about two weeks of fermentation. I was concerned that it would be overly hoppy, but after the comments on this thread and reading up on hops I have a better understanding of the impact of hops on flavor and aroma. As I mentioned earlier I tossed in the remainder of the hops a few days later. I cold crashed at about three weeks and it has now been in the bottle for a week. I am anxious to give it a try but I plan on giving it four weeks in the bottle before I do, no sense in drinking beer that i know isn't ready.

 

Did you dry hop your batch or add the hops during the boil? And why one ounce?

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Dry hopping has 0 impact on flavor.

 

Why do people keep saying this when it's simply not true? :wacko:  Dry-hopping absolutely effects the flavor. Not as much as a 20 minute boil, but it does add flavor. In fact some hops can provide intense flavor when dry-hopping because much of the volatile oils have been preserved rather than cooked off (these oils will also improve mouthfeel). Not to mention the fact that your nose and flavor senses are directly tied together. So if you want more hop aroma AND flavor, late hop additions are key.

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Why do people keep saying this when it's simply not true? :wacko:  Dry-hopping absolutely effects the flavor. Not as much as a 20 minute boil, but it does add flavor. In fact some hops can provide intense flavor when dry-hopping because much of the volatile oils have been preserved rather than cooked off (these oils will also improve mouthfeel). Not to mention the fact that your nose and flavor senses are directly tied together. So if you want more hop aroma AND flavor, late hop additions are key.

I sort of wondered how dry hopping could affect aroma but not flavor, especially since our sense of taste and smell are so closely related. Now I really want to try this beer out, guess I will find out the results of the experiment in another three or four weeks.

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Well in fairness dry hopped brew smell great, but taste like grass to me.(in all fairness I got to say a Goose Island IPA ain't half bad)

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Why do people keep saying this when it's simply not true? :wacko:  Dry-hopping absolutely effects the flavor. Not as much as a 20 minute boil, but it does add flavor. In fact some hops can provide intense flavor when dry-hopping because much of the volatile oils have been preserved rather than cooked off (these oils will also improve mouthfeel). Not to mention the fact that your nose and flavor senses are directly tied together. So if you want more hop aroma AND flavor, late hop additions are key.

I've been dry hopping lots of beers lately, and no flavor has come through at all.

As a matter of fact, my imperial ipa that I just CC'd has a ton of aroma seeping out from vents under the lid but the taste doesn't represent that 1.5oz of hops were added dry within the last 2 weeks.

 

So maybe dry hopping CAL will add some flavor, (and in no way am I trying to say that JoshR doesn't know what he he's talking about), but in my personal experience, adding dry hop pellets hops has no impact on the flavor of my beers.

 

Side note-- adding fresh hops to the glass adds tons of flavor.

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I've been dry hopping lots of beers lately, and no flavor has come through at all.

As a matter of fact, my imperial ipa that I just CC'd has a ton of aroma seeping out from vents under the lid but the taste doesn't represent that 1.5oz of hops were added dry within the last 2 weeks.

 

So maybe dry hopping CAL will add some flavor, (and in no way am I trying to say that JoshR doesn't know what he he's talking about), but in my personal experience, adding dry hop pellets hops has no impact on the flavor of my beers.

 

Side note-- adding fresh hops to the glass adds tons of flavor.

 

I've done a LOT of side-by-side testing of dry-hopping and have found that dry-hopping indeed adds flavor to the beer, especially when using hops that are high in oils.

I highly recommend reading "For the Love of Hops: The Practical Guide to Aroma, Bitterness, and the Culture of Hops". It's an amazing book with a lot of great information. 

And for the record, I'm not saying you're completely wrong or anything. Many people perceive hops differently due to genetic variations in how you perceive flavor and aroma. This is why some people claim dry-hopping only makes their beer smell/taste grassy, but others don't experience this. I'm merely conveying what the majority of brewers have found: That dry-hopping does impart flavor, especially when using high oil hops. I just don't want other people to miss out on what could be some great hop flavors because they were deterred from dry-hopping.

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I would also like to point out that while the flavor you get from dry-hopping isn't as strong as the flavor you'd get from a 20 minute boil, it is a different, almost fresher flavor because of the terpenes/terpenoids in the oils that weren't damaged by heating. This is also what creates most of the aroma. And as I pointed out earlier, your sense of taste and smell are directly tied together.

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I've been dry hopping lots of beers lately, and no flavor has come through at all.

As a matter of fact, my imperial ipa that I just CC'd has a ton of aroma seeping out from vents under the lid but the taste doesn't represent that 1.5oz of hops were added dry within the last 2 weeks.

 

So maybe dry hopping CAL will add some flavor, (and in no way am I trying to say that JoshR doesn't know what he he's talking about), but in my personal experience, adding dry hop pellets hops has no impact on the flavor of my beers.

 

Side note-- adding fresh hops to the glass adds tons of flavor.

What is your dry hopping schedule? Weeks or days? While I do not dry hop(because your right, flavor and aroma boils do last longer than a dry hop), I have read that anything over 4 days is counter productive and will cause grass flavors. Don't know, as I said I don't dry hop.

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What is your dry hopping schedule? Weeks or days? While I do not dry hop(because your right, flavor and aroma boils do last longer than a dry hop), I have read that anything over 4 days is counter productive and will cause grass flavors. Don't know, as I said I don't dry hop.

 

I usually dry-hop for 4-7 days and have never experienced grassy flavors. But I also give the beer a little sniff and taste after the first few days. If I want a bit more aroma/flavor, I'll leave it for a few more days. It really depends on the hops you're using. I can totally see certain hops such as some Noble varieties (Saaz, Hallertau, Tettnang, Spalt) becoming grassy, but I never use those types of hops for dry-hopping. I prefer to use hops with high oil content such as Columbus, Amarillo, Cascade, Simcoe, Citra, etc. And I only dry-hop when the beer is intended to to be hop-forward or it needs some balance.

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I have yet to find an IPA that don't taste like grass. So far the least grassy one is a Goose Island IPA(but not worth the $6 a bottle they wanted at the restaurant)

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I have yet to find an IPA that don't taste like grass. So far the least grassy one is a Goose Island IPA(but not worth the $6 a bottle they wanted at the restaurant)

 

This goes back to what I was saying about having a genetic disposition for hops. To some people the bitterness is pleasant, to others, it's not. To some people, the aroma and flavor is citrusy, but to others, it's grassy. Of course, this is exactly why everyone has varying tastes and preferences. If everyone liked the same thing, all beer would taste the same, and that would be boring.

Check out this interesting article on the science of beer flavor: http://allaboutbeer.com/article/how-does-your-beer-taste-and-how-do-you-taste-your-beer/

Goose Island is pretty good, but I really have a hard time giving Anheuser Busch my money.

 

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I pay little to no attention to who makes what, till I decide the basic question...do I even like it? So far the answer's been no. 

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For my first batch (Klondike Gold) I added some Cascade hops into the fermenter right after pitching the yeast & closed up the LBK. Later, I found out that dry-hopping usually only takes place after primary fermentation has subsided as CO² production can scrub off flavours and yeast dropping out of suspension can carry the essential oils with them. So, basically, I dry-hopped my beer for three weeks, and at bottling when I got to taste it, it had no "vegetable" or "grassy" taste whatsoever.

 

IDK if that's because the CO² scrubbed off all the flavour or what... but yeah, no bad tastes came out of it.

 

Anybody ever heard of hop-priming? I read about this elsewhere, but you can only do it if you batch-prime. You boil your sugar & your water, then add hops at flameout & let it steep for 10 minutes, then strain it out into your bottling bucket/keg and batch-prime like normal. Apparently it tastes just like you dry-hopped the batch.

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For my first batch (Klondike Gold) I added some Cascade hops into the fermenter right after pitching the yeast & closed up the LBK. Later, I found out that dry-hopping usually only takes place after primary fermentation has subsided as CO² production can scrub off flavours and yeast dropping out of suspension can carry the essential oils with them. So, basically, I dry-hopped my beer for three weeks, and at bottling when I got to taste it, it had no "vegetable" or "grassy" taste whatsoever.

 

IDK if that's because the CO² scrubbed off all the flavour or what... but yeah, no bad tastes came out of it.

 

Anybody ever heard of hop-priming? I read about this elsewhere, but you can only do it if you batch-prime. You boil your sugar & your water, then add hops at flameout & let it steep for 10 minutes, then strain it out into your bottling bucket/keg and batch-prime like normal. Apparently it tastes just like you dry-hopped the batch.

 

Letting the hops steep in hot water isn't the same as dry-hopping because any amount of heat can destroy the essential oils that give dry-hopping its intense aromas and pleasantly "resinous" hop flavors. It's a cool technique and will boost your hop flavor, but it's no substitution for dry-hopping.

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I was only repeating what I read. I have not tried it so I can't say, hence my question.

 

Thanks for the answer!

 

:)

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What is your dry hopping schedule? Weeks or days? While I do not dry hop(because your right, flavor and aroma boils do last longer than a dry hop), I have read that anything over 4 days is counter productive and will cause grass flavors. Don't know, as I said I don't dry hop.

I have varied from 60 minutes to to 14 days (did 1oz cascade for 14 days then 7 days of palisade all in 1 beer!)

 

I've been making a ton a beer so I have to keep making it differently than the way I did it before.  Once I settle in a beer I really like, I will make 3-4 versions of at once and decide on my favorite.  And I might do that 3-4 times.

 

The point is, I could keep making the same beer over and over again but then it becomes a chore instead of a hobby.  I almost enjoy the creative side of homebrew more than the drinking... almost.

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If you are a hop-head with a kegging system and you REALLY want hop flavor/aroma, try using a Randall. It was invented at Dogfish Head Brewery. It's basically a water filter that has been converted into a device that infuses hop flavor and aroma AT POURING TIME. You fill it with hops and run the beer through it. You can't get any fresher than that (especially with fresh wet hops).

wi_randallanimal608.jpg
 

 

 

But you're not limited to just hops. You can put all kinds of stuff in there for extra flavor.

20111026-105822.jpg

I'm currently in the process of making one for my home kegerator.

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 I could keep making the same beer over and over again but then it becomes a chore instead of a hobby.  I almost enjoy the creative side of homebrew more than the drinking... almost.

Not if you enjoy the brew. I got "house brews". That don't mean I stagnate, I try new styles.  About 1/4 of my brews are new.

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Not if you enjoy the brew. I got "house brews". That don't mean I stagnate, I try new styles.  About 1/4 of my brews are new.

I'm okay with the "house brew" if its a simple session that you've made several different ways and finally settled on a finished product.

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I'm okay with the "house brew" if its a simple session that you've made several different ways and finally settled on a finished product.

That would depend on your definition of session. 2 of 'em are to high an ABV to be a "session" brew. since all of mine (with the exception of the one I did for the big brew) are original recipes of styles. My House brews are what I consider the best I can make in that style.(thought truth to tell, I never quit tweaking them)

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I opened a bottle of the Noche de Luna that I had fermented with the 1.2 oz. of hops. I thought it was quite good, not anywhere near as hoppy as I thought it would be. It had fermented for four weeks and bottle conditioned for three. It did seem a bit green yet, so I intend to let it bottle condition for another couple of weeks. Thanks to all who responded to the various posts, I learned a lot about hops and the impact on flavor and aroma. This was just my second batch with a third fermenting and now another half dozen on my wish list.

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