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Jeff (Klingdom)

What happens If.........

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I take any can of HME and throw in 1 or 2 more cans of the same HME into my wort and follow the Mr Beer directions? Will my yeast be over powered? Can it work using different yeast? What are the effects of this on the taste of the beer? How would the taste differ?

I know the ABV would be higher with more sugar.

I am not trying to this. I am just trying to learn what this affect would do.

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I like your pioneering spirit! With 3 cans, 2 gallon batch, I'm getting an OG of 1.098, FG of 1.027, 9.28% ABV. That's assuming Cooper's dry ale yeast can handle 9.28%. Yeast management starts getting a little tricky at high gravities. It could definitely work with a number of different yeasts. A Belgian triple style would be a nice place to start...then again "use a Belgian yeast" is pretty much my answer to everything.

 

Bitterness depends on which variety of HME you use.

 

P.S. If I were doing this, I'd use liquid yeast with a starter. I'm not familiar with dry yeasts for this application, but I suspect you'd want to pitch more than the usual 1 packet. 

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http://www.mrbeer.com/raveon-saison-recipe

 

This recipe uses two HMEs and Belle Saison dry yeast.  I made it with an OG of 1.08 and an FG of 1.008.  Came out with a 9.45% ABV.  Still conditioning but tasted one after 4 weeks and it was good already.  It will be better by Mid June which would be 4 months of conditioning.

 

I think this yeast could even handle three HMEs but you would probably want to pitch two packets, at least use a calculator to figure out if you need the second packet.

 

Note: I use an 8LX so the fermenter was able to handle this one without an issue, an LBK might make a mess.

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2 of the standard cans can certainly work with the Mr. Beer yeast that is included.  They have several recipes that do it.

 

Start adding a 3rd and you probably need a different yeast, that can tolerate the higher alcohol content.

 

Since you are adding HME, and you said the same type, the basic taste, as far as the malt and hops are concerned, shouldn't change.  But the taste will certainly change with respect to the taste of alcohol.

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I like your pioneering spirit! With 3 cans, 2 gallon batch, I'm getting an OG of 1.098, FG of 1.027, 9.28% ABV. That's assuming Cooper's dry ale yeast can handle 9.28%.

 

That's an EXCELLENT point.  I would love to know what the tolerance level is for the Cooper's yeast that comes with the HME's.  Can you get that info for us, Josh?

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why would the amount of alcohol be different? The ABV would rise only if you did not add the same amount of water to for each can. If you added 3 cans and made 2.5 gallons of beer I am not sure that any yeast could transport anything through its cell walls and I suspect that you would have a stalled fermentation. - I stand corrected.The SG is 1.098?. I regularly make wine with that starting gravity. But presumably simply increasing the alcohol level will knock all the other factors off balance - will there be enough flavor for that ABV, enough bitterness, enough maltiness. You don't drink a beer with that kind of level of alcohol by the pint- it ain't what is called a session beer... Will it need aging for months like a so-called barley wine?

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That's an EXCELLENT point.  I would love to know what the tolerance level is for the Cooper's yeast that comes with the HME's.  Can you get that info for us, Josh?

 

It should be able to reach up to 11%.

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why would the amount of alcohol be different? The ABV would rise only if you did not add the same amount of water to for each can. If you added 3 cans and made 2.5 gallons of beer I am not sure that any yeast could transport anything through its cell walls and I suspect that you would have a stalled fermentation. - I stand corrected.The SG is 1.098?. I regularly make wine with that starting gravity. But presumably simply increasing the alcohol level will knock all the other factors off balance - will there be enough flavor for that ABV, enough bitterness, enough maltiness. You don't drink a beer with that kind of level of alcohol by the pint- it ain't what is called a session beer... Will it need aging for months like a so-called barley wine?

 

It's still a 2 gallon batch, but you're putting in 3 times the fermentables. That's why it's higher gravity.

 

The yeast won't complain, as long as they're healthy. They love having lots of food. But again, as you get into the high-gravity realm yeast is a little more tricky. Using starters, pitching more yeast in the wort, pitching additional yeast just prior to bottling...some of the things one might consider. 

 

Whether or not your beer will be "balanced" depends on what's in the extract. I'd probably at least add some flavor and aroma hops, depending on the style, since the canned stuff doesn't have those. I can't remember which HME I plugged into the calculator to get the 9.28%...just think if you used a hoppy extract you might end up with a 9% beer with over 100 IBUs. Sounds good to me! It would benefit from some aging (in the bottle). I'd go a couple months, maybe 3, although I'm sure I'd need a couple quality control samples earlier in the conditioning process.

 

Multiple high ABV beers can indeed be drunk by the pint and the 12 ounce bottle. I've done it many times, and I suspect more than one member of this forum has done it too. I find the whole "session beer" concept to be strange. How many beers make up a "session"? Or, is it based on a certain period of time? I think microbrewers made up the term "session beer" so they could sell cheaper-to-produce beer at higher prices.  I can drink Sierra Torpedo all day, but at 7.2% I doubt it would be classified as a session beer. I like Lindeman's Framboise, but even though it's 2.5% I'm good with just 1. Nowadays when I go to a bar that has good beer, I'll order whatever I want and drink water in between. I'd rather have 4 strong beers that I really enjoy instead of 8 beers that I can guzzle faster. (Founders All Day IPA gets a pass, even though it's a little bit thin in the malt department. They give you 15 beers for the price of a somewhat expensive12 pack.) If I'm on a mission to get schnockered I don't waste good beer on it, I drink cheap whiskey shots with a Coke chaser. YMMV of course.  ;)

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Great question(s) Klingdom! I've never had any problems adding 2 cans of HME + 1 BrewMax pouch in a recipe. All the yeasts available from MrB that I've tried tolerated the ABV just fine using one packet (no starter) & even carbs the bottles. I've never used a hydrometer to calculate ABV (although I plan to get one soon just to keep up in the forums) because I figured the MrB estimates are probably pretty accurate (between 7% & 8.9%) & at the end of fermentation ya get what ya get. I don't consider those recipes HUGE but big enough for me to knock back 2 or 3 & have a great buzz!

There's LOTS of different kinds of yeasts available & ,as far as I know, ALL of em will produce alcohol. There's brewer's (beer) yeasts, wine yeasts (different strains for different styles), champagne yeast (basically white wine yeast with higher alcohol tolerance to provide carbonation bubbles), distiller's yeast (boasting super high tolerance up to 22% saturation), and good ole bread yeast (with a low tolerance, but makes good rum.. uh.. so I've heard..). You wanna choose a yeast that will tolerate your big beer's ABV and still produce flavors you like.

Speaking of flavors, there's many different ones. From clean to fruity, peppery to banana? Yep. Some different yeasts like different temps for fermentation, & varying fermentation temps using only one strain of yeast can change the flavor it gives the beer.

I've found the best way to learn is to try it! You'll probably have some "experiments" that you dislike as well as others you can't make enough of! I've posted a couple of links below that you may find interesting & helpful. They are by no means a final authority, just a couple I found easily on Google.

Good luck!

http://drinks.seriouseats.com/2013/01/how-to-indentify-yeast-character-in-beer-what-are-esters-phenols-alcohol.html

https://byo.com/resources/yeast

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I take any can of HME and throw in 1 or 2 more cans of the same HME into my wort and follow the Mr Beer directions? Will my yeast be over powered? Can it work using different yeast? What are the effects of this on the taste of the beer? How would the taste differ?

I know the ABV would be higher with more sugar.

I am not trying to this. I am just trying to learn what this affect would do.

 

Everyone already made great points about yeast management

 

But you may want to consider the extended conditioning time for this batch, assuming you used 3 cans in one LBK.  IMHO, you will want it to condition at least 3 months in a cooler temperature range based on your yeast requirements.  to me, ABV is a side affect and not a target, but I think you would have a damn fine tasting beer after an extended conditioning period.

 

I would consider 3 cans in two fermenters.

 

Developing your own beer recipes is like navigating a large sea vessel.  IMHO, sharp turns can lead to a bad day.

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As the OP said in his original post: "I am not trying to this. I am just trying to learn what this affect would do. "

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