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scotrik

Advantage of different yeast

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I've been looking at ingredients of different porter recipes to help understand the various effects of different ingredients.  I've noticed a few of the american porter based recipes use a different yeast.  Specifically the SAFALE S-04 DRY ALE YEAst.   What is the outcome or goal of using this yeast (or any other) rather than the basic dry ale yeast that comes with the refill?

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us04 is an English ale yeast. when you ferment at a lower temp like around 58-60f it does a fine job and barely makes any fruity esters. if you let it get warmer 62+ it throws off some fruity  / almost apple like flavors that the English seem to be fond of.. it is a very good yeast. every time I used it, it chewed through the fermentables like a monster.

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It does lend some fruity flavors which in some beers is desired. If you want a cleaner yeast with higher attenuation the Safale US-05 is great.

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so the short answer to your original question is : because every yeast can ferment differently and produce various flavors.

 

 

try an experiment:  get 2 identical porter kits. ferment one with us04  and the other with your standard fromunda yeast (under the lid). keep temps the same and come back when done to report your findings.

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I am going to try this with the Belgian spice.

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The Belgian Spiced comes with T-58, what other yeast would you try?

Seems you would lose a bit if it was a less flavorful one. Maybe another Belgian yeast?

The regular Mr B yeast would make less flavor I would think - but OK for an experiment and certainly drinkable.

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.... your standard fromunda yeast (under the lid). 

 

Fromunda usually has a distinct pejorative connotation.  Wasn't until you posted this the I finally got that it's "from under".

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I made a Baltic Porter with Safale S-04, I let it ferment a little warm for a about 48 hours and then lowered to 62. Beer came out wonderfully, just a little nose of fruit to compliment the toasted licorice flavor.

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I was thinking about doing the Winter Dark Ale with a different yeast that adds more complexity e.g.

White Labs WLP665 Flemish Ale Blend Ale Liquid Blended culture used to produce the classic beer styles of the West Flanders region of Belgium . A proprietary blend of Saccharomyces yeasts, Brettanomyces, Lactobacillus, and Pediococcus, this culture creates a more complex, dark stone fruit characteristic than WLP 655 Belgian Sour Mix.

 

Has anyone tried this with the Winter Dark Ale HME?

Opinions?

 

Hum. Other things I read say that this HME may have too high an IBU for this to work well. Although Belg. Winter Spiced is rated at 45 IBUs.

Maybe I should use the Belg Spiced Ale HME without the spices and throw this yeast in?

 

Update - I saw it still was on sale so I ordered 3 more so I can experiment.

I think without spices - I can try it as Belgian or even same yeast as Winter Dark.

Hmm.

 

 

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I did an experiment with the Mr. Beer Seasonal ESB using Danstar's Nottingham and Windsor  yeasts.  I made both beers the same day (OG for both 1.063), pitched the different yeasts and fermented in picnic coolers in the basement.  As expected the Windsor yeast did not attenuate as well as the Nottingham (FG 1.021 vs 1.014).  I bottled both beers using 2 PrimeDose capsules per 12 oz bottle.

 

Both beers tasted great.  The Nottingham beer seemed a little drier with more pronounced bitterness.  The Windsor beer seemed a little smoother, more balanced with a much lower level of perceived bitterness.

 

Overall, a nice little experiment to show just how different yeasts affect the flavor of your beer.

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The T-05 is a good all round yeast that ships with MR. Beer recipes and I favor anything that works in my environment as well.

 

The T-58 seems to be a real sleeper in my fermenting environment but it shipped with the Belgian spice. My cooler temperatures are not desirable and adding only 1 ice bottle seemed to put me into T-04 space. I guess once the temperatures are favorable for the yeast flavoring the beer can be tailored thereafter.

 

Changing yeast to accommodate flavor is a complex spectrum.

 

Cheers

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A note on using WLP665 (or any other bugs)...  you'll want to devote any equipment you use for this beer from the point the bugs make it into the ferment (including fermenter, spigot, tubing, racking cane, bottling wand, etc. to sour/funk brewing from now on, and keep your "clean" equipment separate.  If you decide to undertake this adventure, I welcome you to the world of funky brewing and ask that you keep us posted...

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Are you referencing the nottingham or windsor bugs or all yeast in general, I am kinda new and trying to learn how to do it right like many of us here.

 

Your 10,44x posts are well respected.

 

M

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Interesting. Are they really that hard to kill? Even with the sterilizer? 

Or does it mean I can save on ordering more funky yeast if I don't wash things well - lol?

 

The Saisons I made with T-58 came out pretty funky but not  the same I guess - but I keep it simple - I only use Fermenter/Spigot and PET bottles as well as kitchen stuff that goes in the dishwasher, not tubes, canes, wands  etc.  

-  I guess I could keep one fermenter for those, I do have 4.

 

@swenochka - I used to work for a company (Harris) that made a test system for Aircraft Carriers called VAST  (and it really was). So there were a lot of Half-VAST experts around and some even qualified as VASTards.

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Saccharomyces cerevisiae (ale yeast...  T-58, Notty, Windsor, Fromunda, etc.) is a yeast (as is Brett) and not what I'm referring to as "bugs."  Lacto and pedio, which are in that Flanders blend, are bacteria, and those are pretty hard to get out of fermenting equipment, especially plastics.   You can bleach bomb the stuff, but even that doesn't always work for a plastic fermenter.  Most do their best to clean them and just keep separate funky fermenters so as not to cross-contaminate.  Most commercial breweries do this as well.  Another note when using this blend (or other funky yeasts or bugs)...  these aren't generally "three weeks and you're done" type of things.  Months (or even years) in the fermenter is not uncommon for this kind of brewing.  I recommend two sites from people I find very authoritative on these subjects...  the Mad Fermentationist by Michael Tonsmeire and Embrace the Funk by Yazoo's sour brewer, Brandon Jones (who I'm fortunate enough to consider a friend, and who is usually being texted for advice by me whenever I'm sour/funk brewing).

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A friendly bug lives in the septic tank, They are bacteria but share a common interest with brewing yeast.

 

They eat ferment -able waste or sugars. Our yeast are comfortably controlled by government sanctions and rules for reproduction. (Theoretically)

 

I am hoping that the yeast bacteria in the brewing arena has an interest in sugars and has little ability to migrate to an all out parasite that produce life threatening disease.

 

You came out of a long time poster to try to inform us about imposing yeast conflict and it is greatly appreciated. I will have to study the links to go deeper but mixing fermentation vessels with incompatible yeast might compromise good beer. Cleaning is near impossible. Hmmmm!

 

Information is always our friend.

All The Best, M 

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Thanks for the inputs.

Hmm if they take months or years fermenting, I am not sure I am ready for that - I like the simple life.

If they are tough to get out of the fermenter they likely will get all over the kitchen too. Not sure I need that.

 

I think I will live with limited yeast induced home made funk (Dampfbier and Saison). I can always buy the other if I have an extra big yen for it.

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