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Need some HELP...on hops

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I need some help with how to utilize the Chinook hops(4oz cold pressed pack) I purchased from a local grower into a Mr Beer extract/recipe. I noticed that these hops aren't sold by Mr Beer so any ideas with what to use them in would be helpful...JoshR if your able to concoct something I would appreciate your input.

As always thanks in advance!

Some info about these hops

Farm: Clear Valley Hops Plantation, Ontario, Canada

• Hop Variety: Chinook 2014

• KAR Labs 2014: Alpha acids: 12.7, Beta acids: 3.71

• Flavour: the “go to” of bittering hops. Full of spices reminiscent of the spice trails of the Far East

with pine overtones.

• Aroma: Moderate - High spicy, piney, grapefruit tones.

• Harvest: Mid to Late season.

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Instead of looking at it like; what do I use it with?  Rather look at MrB recipes and see which your hops could enhance...i.e. anything using cascade. Or northern brewer (there are the "earth" tones\)

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I checked a hops substitution chart and it said you could sub Brewers Gold, Columbus, Galena, Nugget, Northern Brewer, and/or Eroica in place of Chinook. You could probably use them in a recipe that called for any of those and be in the ballpark. Just to give you a general idea, Mr. Beer uses Columbus in several of their kits. http://www.mrbeer.com/columbus-hops

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I checked a hops substitution chart and it said you could sub Brewers Gold, Columbus, Galena, Nugget, Northern Brewer, and/or Eroica in place of Chinook. You could probably use them in a recipe that called for any of those and be in the ballpark. Just to give you a general idea, Mr. Beer uses Columbus in several of their kits. http://www.mrbeer.com/columbus-hops

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Instead of looking at it like; what do I use it with?  Rather look at MrB recipes and see which your hops could enhance...i.e. anything using cascade. Or northern brewer (there are the "earth" tones\)

 Great minds. Sorry for the double post btw, something was acting up.

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 Great minds. Sorry for the double post btw, something was acting up.

having trouble seeing little things again? lol!

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ive got sum fresh hops vacuum sealed suppose to go into a dble hop ipa i'll be doin soon, its suppose to be added  when serving in a glass, slightly crush up over the beer, I thot about crushing one up into a doobie lol! probably get a headache and go into convulsions.......

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Chinook hops were mainly bred for bittering, hence the high alpha acids, but many people also use them for flavor and aroma. Our cans are pre-hopped with bittering hops so it's recommended you use these hops as a late flavor/aroma addition. But if you want more bitterness, be careful when using this hop as an early bittering addition because it's very easy to over do it. Chinook is a very complex hop when using for flavor/aroma. Paler beers seem to bring out the floral, pine, and citrus qualities more, whereas darker beers bring out the herbal, woody, and spicy qualities. It's a pretty versatile hop. It's good in almost any ale, stout, or porter so the possibilities are endless.

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Typical Beer Styles:

  • American-style Pale Ale

 

Remember, don't boil your HME.  If you want to use it as a bittering hop, you will need to boil it in DME or LME

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How much to add for aroma? 0.5 to 1 oz? light beer? dark beer?

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How much to add for aroma? 0.5 to 1 oz? light beer? dark beer?

Only you can say because it's very subjective.

I would recommend starting with 0.5oz at the flameout.  I personally think that "not enough" is acceptable while too much can make things undrinkable. 

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How much to add for aroma? 0.5 to 1 oz? light beer? dark beer?

 

.5 will work just fine for either light or dark beers. If you're doing a pale ale or IPA and really want to highlight the hops, use 1 oz at flameout. Or use .5 at flameout and .5 for dry hopping.

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Typical Beer Styles:

  • American-style Pale Ale

 

Remember, don't boil your HME.  If you want to use it as a bittering hop, you will need to boil it in DME or LME

 

As an aside, It's ok to boil your HME if you want to use it for something that requires more bittering hops. For example, using CAL as a base only contributes 11 IBUs, so even if some of that boils off your bittering hops will make up for it. I've done that when I had cans of CAL I didn't want to waste and I was happy with the results. You might caramelize your wort to some extent though, which might not be what you want. 

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.5 will work just fine for either light or dark beers. If you're doing a pale ale or IPA and really want to highlight the hops, use 1 oz at flameout. Or use .5 at flameout and .5 for dry hopping.

So at flameout how long do I keep the hops in the wort before I remove the sack? And the .5 oz for dry hopping I would add to wort in lbk after 1 week correct?

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Already discussed  I wanted to try my Huell Melon hops and maybe but instead of wheat beer I  should use a CAL or Aztek then and add 0.5 oz at end of boil and 0.5 as dry hop 7 days before bottling. Otherwise wheat yeast will add  confusing flavors, the Aztec is pretty clean.

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So at flameout how long do I keep the hops in the wort before I remove the sack? And the .5 oz for dry hopping I would add to wort in lbk after 1 week correct?

 

I'd say about 5 minutes, maybe 10. I put mine in during the last 5 minutes of the boil, so maybe after flameout you'd leave them in a little longer than that. I'm guessing though, I'm sure someone will let me know if I'm wrong. 1 week for the dry hops sounded right, assuming you're doing 2 weeks in the lbk before bottling. But then I found this that says 1 day is better than 7: http://inhoppursuit.blogspot.com/2012/02/more-aroma-oil-faster-dry-hopsters-holy.html

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That's it - I am no longer going to dry-hop any beer before bottling. I will make sure to have a few hops pellets available every time I open up a beer, and just drop them in on the spot.

 

  :ph34r:

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That's it - I am no longer going to dry-hop any beer before bottling. I will make sure to have a few hops pellets available every time I open up a beer, and just drop them in on the spot.

 

  :ph34r:

 

 I read somewhere that Bert Grant used to carry around a bottle of hop oil which he would add to beer that lacked flavor. Google him if you don't know who I'm talking about. Ok I'll give you a hint: in the early 80s he opened the first US microbrewery since prohibition. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakima_Brewing

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So at flameout how long do I keep the hops in the wort before I remove the sack? And the .5 oz for dry hopping I would add to wort in lbk after 1 week correct?

You leave it in there until you cold crash.

 

And because there is no way to predict the results, I would NEVER boil the HME.

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You leave it in there until you cold crash.

 

And because there is no way to predict the results, I would NEVER boil the HME.

 

Jeez, you guys act like it's going to explode in your face or create a black hole or something. For me the choice was either boil CAL hme and add more hops, or throw away 3 cans of CAL. I know...I'm a crazy rebel. :D  But I'm not a beginner either, so that does make a little difference. Those cans of CAL turned into an ESB and a biere de garde (actually more of a saison, which is an example of why yeast choice matters) and I guarantee they were an improvement over non-boiled CAL. You should probably not boil your HME if you're following a recipe that specifically calls for it, like using CAL to make actual CAL, for instance. If you do, you might lose some IBUs. Or you might not.  ;)

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I used 3/4 oz Chinook hops boiled for 15 minutes in Amber DME, then added the Canadian Blonde HME. Turned out like a store bought Pale Ale. Maybe a little too hoppy for me.

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Jeez, you guys act like it's going to explode in your face or create a black hole or something. For me the choice was either boil CAL hme and add more hops, or throw away 3 cans of CAL. I know...I'm a crazy rebel. :D  But I'm not a beginner either, so that does make a little difference. Those cans of CAL turned into an ESB and a biere de garde (actually more of a saison, which is an example of why yeast choice matters) and I guarantee they were an improvement over non-boiled CAL. You should probably not boil your HME if you're following a recipe that specifically calls for it, like using CAL to make actual CAL, for instance. If you do, you might lose some IBUs. Or you might not.  ;)

I would never throw away CAL.  It's a perfect starter.  But it's only 3%.  So you have to add something to it.  So you get you 1lb+ of UME, boil in some (AROMA ONLY) hops, and you have a really solid beer when you add in your CAL after the boil is complete.

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I would never throw away CAL. It's a perfect starter. But it's only 3%. So you have to add something to it. So you get you 1lb+ of UME, boil in some (AROMA ONLY) hops, and you have a really solid beer when you add in your CAL after the boil is complete.

I added DME to mine. If I did that ESB again I might boil the hops with the DME and add the CAL at the end, but I just boiled both of them together for 30 or 40 minutes. I don't get why people think you can't boil HME with additional bittering hops though. I've read lots of opinions on both sides of the issue, but no data to back it up. So I chalk it up to personal preference, like many other aspects of homebrewing. As the old saying goes, there's more than one way to skin a cat.

 

EDIT: Just to be clear, I'm not disputing the fact that there could be a valid reason for not boiling HME. The possibility of caramelization is one, if you're concerned about it. Flavor and aroma from hops can dissipate after excessive boiling, but as far as I know that isn't the case with bitterness. CAL only has "bittering hops", if you will, so I don't see what the big deal is. If someone can point me to a reliable source that says otherwise and provides an explanation, I'd appreciate it. 

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So you get you 1lb+ of UME, boil in some (AROMA ONLY) hops, and you have a really solid beer when you add in your CAL after the boil is complete.

 

One more thing: Why "AROMA ONLY"? You can certainly add bittering, flavoring, and aroma hops to unhopped extract. You can add them to hopped extract too, but I understand that that is a bone of contention for some members of the Mr. Beer community, as seen above.  :D

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So again I'm still trying to think on how to utilize these chinook hops with some of the HME's and ingredients I have on hand. I have a CAL, American Lager, Bavarian Weissbier and an Aztec Cerveza. I also have a Brewmax Softpack Golden LME.

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Anyway if you are and you like your beer hoppy, I put some stuff into the ol' calculator and came up with this. For the hopped extract I just plugged in numbers until I ended up in the ballpark in terms of IBUs, so ignore the 60 minute boil time in the hops section. You can leave the grains out if you want, it won't make a huge difference.

 

Brew Method: Extract
Style Name: American IPA
Boil Time: 20 min
Batch Size: 2 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 2 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.068
Efficiency: 35% (steeping grains only)
 
STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.068
Final Gravity: 1.013
ABV (standard): 7.27%
IBU (tinseth): 61.17
SRM (morey): 12.62
 
FERMENTABLES:
3.74 lb - Liquid Malt Extract - Light (88.2%)
 
STEEPING GRAINS:
0.5 lb - American - Caramel / Crystal 60L (11.8%)
 
HOPS:
0.5 oz - Canned hopped extract, Type: Pellet, AA: 5.9, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 23.75
0.5 oz - Chinook, Type: Fresh, AA: 12.7, Use: Boil for 20 min, IBU: 28.15
0.5 oz - Chinook, Type: Fresh, AA: 12.7, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 9.27
0.5 oz - Chinook, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 12.7, Use: Dry Hop for 7 days
 
YEAST:
Fermentis / Safale - American Ale Yeast US-05
Starter: No
Form: Dry
Attenuation (avg): 81%
Flocculation: Medium
Optimum Temp: 54 - 77 F
 
NOTES:
1 can each of CAL and Aztec HME.
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Anyway if you are and you like your beer hoppy, I put some stuff into the ol' calculator and came up with this. For the hopped extract I just plugged in numbers until I ended up in the ballpark in terms of IBUs, so ignore the 60 minute boil time in the hops section. You can leave the grains out if you want, it won't make a huge difference.

 

 
FERMENTABLES:
3.74 lb - Liquid Malt Extract - Light (88.2%)
 
HOPS:
0.5 oz - Canned hopped extract
(11.8%), Type: Pellet, AA: 5.9, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 23.75
0.5 oz - Chinook, Type: Fresh, AA: 12.7, Use: Boil for 20 min, IBU: 28.15
0.5 oz - Chinook, Type: Fresh, AA: 12.7, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 9.27
0.5 oz - Chinook, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 12.7, Use: Dry Hop for 7 days

 

Awesome Gerry P!!!  What if I substituted the 5 min boil of 1/2 oz chinook with a 1/2oz Santiam, and the LME I have is a Brewmax Golden pouch not a light. how much would this change now?

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Switching the hops will just give you Santiam aroma instead of Chinook aroma, so no problem there. I didn't use the Brewmax extract when I plugged in the numbers, just the cans of CAL and Aztec. "Light" simply refers to the color of the extract. I didn't use the Brewmax because I wasn't sure if you'd want to use the Chinook hops with a wheat beer, but I just checked a hop selection chart and it says you can use them for that.

If you want to throw in the Brewmax, you'd be in Imperial IPA territory at about 8.3% and your IBUs would drop a couple points, according to the calculator. I think that with a hoppy beer you wouldn't see a huge difference in flavor using the wheat extract, but I don't know for sure.  It isn't going to ruin the beer or anything, so if you want to experiment a little throw it in too. It actually sounds interesting and might add a little character. You'd be pushing the alcohol tolerance of the us-05 yeast, which is supposed to be 9.5%. I'd use a yeast with a higher tolerance just to play it safe.

If it was me though, I'd save the Brewmax and combine it with the Bavarian weissbeer for my next batch.

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Anyway if you are and you like your beer hoppy, I put some stuff into the ol' calculator and came up with this. For the hopped extract I just plugged in numbers until I ended up in the ballpark in terms of IBUs, so ignore the 60 minute boil time in the hops section. You can leave the grains out if you want, it won't make a huge difference.

 

Brew Method: Extract
Style Name: American IPA
Boil Time: 20 min
Batch Size: 2 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 2 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.068
Efficiency: 35% (steeping grains only)
 
STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.068
Final Gravity: 1.013
ABV (standard): 7.27%
IBU (tinseth): 61.17
SRM (morey): 12.62
 
FERMENTABLES:
3.74 lb - Liquid Malt Extract - Light (88.2%)
 
STEEPING GRAINS:
0.5 lb - American - Caramel / Crystal 60L (11.8%)
 
HOPS:
0.5 oz - Canned hopped extract, Type: Pellet, AA: 5.9, Use: Boil for 60 min, IBU: 23.75
0.5 oz - Chinook, Type: Fresh, AA: 12.7, Use: Boil for 20 min, IBU: 28.15
0.5 oz - Chinook, Type: Fresh, AA: 12.7, Use: Boil for 5 min, IBU: 9.27
0.5 oz - Chinook, Type: Leaf/Whole, AA: 12.7, Use: Dry Hop for 7 days
 
YEAST:
Fermentis / Safale - American Ale Yeast US-05
Starter: No
Form: Dry
Attenuation (avg): 81%
Flocculation: Medium
Optimum Temp: 54 - 77 F
 
NOTES:
1 can each of CAL and Aztec HME.

 

over all the recipe looks good. I've never dry hopped so I'm curious...does the AA really matter in a dry hop?

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over all the recipe looks good. I've never dry hopped so I'm curious...does the AA really matter in a dry hop?

 

No. They only apply when bittering.

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over all the recipe looks good. I've never dry hopped so I'm curious...does the AA really matter in a dry hop?

 

Thanks!. It was funny, I was messing around on Brewer's Friend making this recipe up and I happened to be drinking a Jack the Sipper, which is Southern Prohibition's ESB. Great beer, and I was drinking it I thought,  "These guys get it." Plenty of bitterness at 45 IBUs, but smooth, as opposed to the more brash, in-your-face hop character of many American beers and one of the reasons I prefer UK style ales. Then I noticed how I did the hop schedule for this and realized I was getting more IBUs out of the flavor hops than the "bittering hops" from the extract. I was going to try to "fix" it, but after a minute realized that this way was better. The flavor hops are boiled long enough to get a decent amount of isomerization without boiling off the oils that provide flavor. So I'm thinking there will be plenty of bitterness, but smooth and balanced, and it should really show off those fresh hops' flavor. I'm curious to see how it turns out.

I also did some Googling and found some information on "Hop Bursting" and late hop additions, and realized I could cut the boil time of this recipe down to 15 minutes and add a little more hops. For example, boil .75 oz. of the Chinook for 15 minutes instead of .5 oz. for 20 minutes, which would raise the IBUs a few points and increase hop flavor while lessening the caramelization you would get with longer boil times. Plus the shorter boil time would probably decrease the chance of causing that mysterious, unspeakable phenomenon that manifests itself when HME is boiled. I still don't know what it is, but I know it must be terrible because of the increased use of italics and bold-faced letters in forum posts when the topic is brought up.  :D

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So anyway I'm reading this article about hop bursting, https://byo.com/hops/item/2519-what-is-hopbursting-and-what-can-i-expect-from-this-technique, and see this:

 

"You ask who uses a method like hopbursting and why. A talk I listened to about Gen Y gives some insight into this general question. We know about the origins of this particular technique, but what about boundary pushing things in general? Many of these new methods are developed by brewers who want to try something completely contrary to conventional wisdom; apparently this is one of the traits of the Gen Y crowd."

 

Wow! Those Gen Y people are all about pushing boundaries! I'd call it more of an obsession with instant gratification. So, as a public service announcement, I've decided to write this open letter:

 

Dear Gen Y,

Every generation thinks they're rebels. Stop acting like you're cooler than everyone else because you're not. Remember, you are the ones responsible for the Duck Face Selfie. Damn narcissistic whiny little twits...And learn cursive dammit!

Sincerely,

Gen X

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Wow! Those Gen Y people are all about pushing boundaries! I'd call it more of an obsession with instant gratification. So, as a public service announcement, I've decided to write this open letter:

 

Dear Gen Y,

Every generation thinks they're rebels. Stop acting like you're cooler than everyone else because you're not. Remember, you are the ones responsible for the Duck Face Selfie. Damn narcissistic whiny little twits...And learn cursive dammit!

Sincerely,

Gen X

 

 

+1

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Another question Gerry P? What if I changed out the Aztec for an american lager hme? Thought I had an Aztec still but don't. And what if i used the yeast the hme comes with? JoshR said its tolerance is 11%. And what would happen if I boiled the hops in the LME and water and added the hme at flameout as per norm? I mean I'm adventurous, I'm(with your help) on the verge of possibly creating something different here...Could you imagine CAL, American Lager HME's, Brewmax Golden LME and these fresh Chinook hops????? Kinda sounds tasty already!

What say you oh glorious brewers?!?

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I think it sounds fine - personally, it sounds better now with the replacement of the Aztec with the American Lager, to me.

 

With two cans of pre-hopped malt extract, I don't know about doing a boil with the hops, at least with trying to get any more bittering out of them. With the Chinook hops, I'd leave them for a hopstand - that's cooling the finished wort down to 170 or below and then adding the hops, and letting the wort stand at temperature (i.e., no more cooling other than what it will at room temp) for a certain amount of time. I'd say 20-30 minutes in this case. You'll get a minor IBU bump, but all the good flavour & aroma!

 

The Coopers/MrB yeast I am sure is fine, I just tend to replace it with another yeast as the packet of yeast that comes with the kit is only 5 grams and that might (might) not be enough for a good ferment, especially with all the extra malt. For this, I'd personally go with a packet of Safale US-05 - those weigh 11.5 grams. If you happen to have two packs of the kit's yeast, that would work fine as well.

 

  :)

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Another question Gerry P? What if I changed out the Aztec for an american lager hme? Thought I had an Aztec still but don't. And what if i used the yeast the hme comes with? JoshR said its tolerance is 11%. And what would happen if I boiled the hops in the LME and water and added the hme at flameout as per norm? I mean I'm adventurous, I'm(with your help) on the verge of possibly creating something different here...Could you imagine CAL, American Lager HME's, Brewmax Golden LME and these fresh Chinook hops????? Kinda sounds tasty already!

What say you oh glorious brewers?!?

 

Yes you can switch them, it won't make a big difference. And yes that would be fine to boil the unopped extract with hops, then add your HME. Idk which yeast it's packaged with it, but 11% tolerance should be sturdy enough. Btw, I like your enthusiasm! But you're nowhere near adventurous territory yet... :D

post-65227-0-42527600-1431672721_thumb.j

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depends on the version(it's a remake)

 

I've never see the orginal, I need to check that out. I just realized the "new" 13 Ghosts came out in 2001. That 14 years ago. I'm going to go sit in the corner in the fetal position for a while now. Good night.

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I'm done dry hoping for a while. I seem to be getting enough aroma with hops at the end of boil and it's annoying.  Perhaps in the fall when I can switch back to a non-saison yeast.

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Not really. It is an English ale yeast. I use it for brown ales.

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OK...I just tried a Hop & Weizen its a Hoppy Hefeweizen made by the Mad River division of Creemore Brewery and loved the hoppy take on a wheat beer I would have enjoyed a tad bit more hoppiness.  I am going to use my Bavarian Weiss HME and a BrewMax Golden LME I have.  I am going to try something a little different and use the Chinook hops...I know, I know they are not used for a wheat beer but hey home/craft brewing is all about trying new and different things!! "The hallmark of craft beer and craft brewers is innovation". I would like some help from you fine folks on a hop schedule.  I know with Chinook due to the high Alpha that it is VERY easy to go overboard and have a uber hoppy undrinkable beer.  So if I'm going to try this to make a hoppier Hefeweizen I just want some help with the hop schedule, dry hopping and the choosing of a yeast.

 

Thanks for all your help...AGAIN!!!

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Well how hoppy do you want it?  I just did a 5 Gallon wheat that was US Hallertau 1oz 60 min, Comet 1 oz 10 mins, Chech Saaz 1oz 5 min.

The result was balanced.  So if you divide those amounts in half for an LBK then adjust your AA% to match you will end of with a balanced hop profile..  If you dry hop you won't get any bitter from that part, just aroma.

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Well keep in mind that the HME has hops in it already.  Go ahead and play with the hops and add them to the LME and treat your HME normally.

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Use them all in a hopstand, but start it at flameout, so you get some IBUs from the hops.The HME is already right about 20 IBUs.

 

Brewer's Friend recipe calculator tell me that if you threw one oz of Chinook hops into the pot at flameout and let it sit for 30 minutes, stirring occasionally, you'd get 19 more IBUs out of them, plus a ton of flavour & aroma. Dry-hop with either more Chinook, or you could go with a small contrast and use 1 oz. Columbus for the last week the beer is in primary.

 

As for a yeast, go with an American Wheat yeast if you want a nice hazy beer, or try the Chico strain (US-05 dry yeast) if you want something clean.

 

At least, that's what I would do...

 

  :)

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