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I will be updating this post with the benefits of each grain, and the suggested amounts for use in the LBKs. Keep checking back...

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I've seen in other posts where RickBeer recommends 4 oz of carapils for body and head retention. After reading here and various other places on the web, it appears the carapils should be crushed. Is this always the case or can you steep whole-grain carapils with the same result? I think common sense tells me no they won't but I look forward to more information on steeping grains. Thanks for this post.

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you crush the grain's husk so that the meat inside can release its goodness in the hot water. otherwise all you get is soggy grain.

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Right.  My LHBS has a big mill and I dump my grains in and crush them.  You can do the same with a small amount in a plastic bag with a rolling pin. 

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Yes, all grains should be crushed, or at least cracked, but not pulverized. Very coarse is best. Most homebrew supply stores will crush the grain for you. 

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A great post and topic.  Looks like sometimes I've been mashing and sometimes I've been steeping from the definitions Josh provided.  I've followed some recipes where I was to hold 153 degrees for 30 mins and others where you bring the water to 165 shut off the heat add the grains and wait 30 mins.  I have not been paying much attention to water ratios though.

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For steeping specialty grains, it isn't as important to hold the temp steady for the same amount of time. Your attempts have probably been about as good as one another, no matter how different they were.

 

 :)

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There is also the Charlie Papazian "quick method" where you just put the steeping grain in a pot of tap water and bring it to boil when it boils you are done and remove the grains.  I would imagine this method would be more dependent on water volume.

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There is also the Charlie Papazian "quick method" where you just put the steeping grain in a pot of tap water and bring it to boil when it boils you are done and remove the grains. I would imagine this method would be more dependent on water volume.

The only problem that I can see with that method is the possibility of releasing tannins from the husks. You can (will) release tannins any time the temp gets above 180f.

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Updated the post to include "Cold-Steeping" and "Using Grains With Mr. Beer".

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Good post, Josh.  For those that are visual learners, here's a great vid on doing a countertop partial mash with Mr. Beer...

 

 

EDIT:  here's their tasting of the beer made in the first vid...

 

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you say that special b and special roast malts dont need to be mashed. I dont doubt this as i recieved a special b malt in a recipe i baught that didnt require a mash. Why do they list these as "must mash" malts in the grain list link you posted. Is this a oversite on there part or they talking about a different malt?

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Some grains don't need a mash, but will still contribute more if they are mashed. All stewed and roasted malts can be steeped or mashed. They are wrong.

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I have used oatmeal (quick oats) and steeped  or boiled it. Seems not much difference in outcome.  I don't think there is a lot of tannin in oatmeal so maybe the quick shot up to the boil is easiest for those if that is all you are using.

 

It does seem one needs more water than 4 cups though. The Oats soak up a lot.

 

Thoughts?

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The California Dreaming recipe uses oats and starts with 6 cups

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The California Dreaming recipe uses oats and starts with 6 cups

 

Thanks I did not see that before I brewed, good example.

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I am planning on making the Porter again as before (with a smooth and a Robust LME) but adding some specialty grain.

I bought a mix of 2 oz Pale Chocolate and 2 oz Chocolate, because I like the idea of both flavors together.

 

The only question I have is how much to use, should I steep all 4 oz total for the Mr Beer one brew, or use 2 oz of it and save the other 2 oz for some other brew? (like maybe dark lager)

 

I also thought I would try an English Ale yeast.

Mangrove Jack M79 Burton Union

Lallemand Windsor

Safale S-04

 

And maybe a light dry hop addition -  maybe 0.5 oz Goldings or Northern Brewer?  But nothing aggressive or my family will not like it.

 

Suggestions?

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Porters are not known for having a dry-hops addition, I believe.

 

As always, when trying something new, err on the side of caution. IDK exactly how strong those malts are, so I personally would go with 2 oz for now and see how it tastes. You can always get more & up the amounts for the next time you brew this beer if the 2 oz isn't enough. Of course, it's a porter, so if you used all 4 oz, I doubt anything terrible would happen, it just might be too chocolate-y (if there is such a thing).

 

I don't know anything about Mangrove Jack yeast, sorry. Windsor is good, but does not get terribly high attenuation nor flocculation. S-04 can be a beast, and it flocculates well.

 

Hope this helps!

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Great information and a bit overwhelming for a new guy.  I'll try this someday in the not too distant future.  Will be watching for recipes and additional guidance....

 

Thanks!

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Thanks, I know the porters are not generally dry hopped but I wanted a little but of something else. Maybe I will try the last one again (I put a bottle in the fridge) and see if it really needs it.

I will use 2 oz then.

 

Yeasts - I do have a pack of  each of them..

 

So Mangrove Jack M79 says on it  - it is for Bitter.

For Porter they have a different yeast - M07. I can try that another time. 

 

Windsor seems to be favored over Nottingham for Malty brews. (Fruity full bodied Ale)

So Windsor seems good for malty but not heavy brews where you want to taste malt and yeast fruitiness.

 

S-04 seems good and very flocculent - always good if not using secondary. 

 

 

I think the S-04, then.

 

Thanks for help.

 

Update : the prior Porter with Smooth and Robust LMEs, 4 TBS Dextrin  and Mr B Ale yeast is nice but surprisingly dry in finish. Other porters attempts have been sweeter. But for balance it does have enough hop so do not need to add unless a specially hoppy brew is desired..

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Update : the prior Porter with Smooth and Robust LMEs, 4 TBS Dextrin  and Mr B Ale yeast is nice but surprisingly dry in finish. Other porters attempts have been sweeter. But for balance it does have enough hop so do not need to add unless a specially hoppy brew is desired.

 

The dryness goes as it warms up and when really warm the coffee and choc flavors really come our. They get lost if it is cold.

I also think it was over carbonated, I had 1.5g in the 750 mL bottle. Especially since it will act more carbonated anyway when warmer.

 

Maybe only 2 lumps next time.

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hey josh, my 10 gallon Rubbermaid arrived from home depot, which with tax, under 50 bucks, not bad, gonna order a mash tun& sparge conversion kit then i'm ready for the ten gallon challen ge ge ge

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i'm thinking for my first experimental 10 gallon attempt is an asparaghas vanilla Brussel sprout surprise! go organic!!!!

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Has anyone ever steeped or mashed flaked corn? I saw it at my LHBS yesterday and forgot to ask the owner. I'm just wondering what it's use would be. 

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1 minute ago, brybry said:

Maybe Ethanol 

 

Assuming that's a good thing? Pardon my ignorance, I'm still learning about grains and such. 

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32 minutes ago, Big Sarge said:

 

Assuming that's a good thing? Pardon my ignorance, I'm still learning about grains and such. 

It all depends if you like moonshine and if you have a license to distill it? Ethanol & Moonshine are essentially the same thing

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I've had it, can't say in a fan. I'm definitely not trying to make it. I figured it might have a beer brewing function. 

Thanks @brybry

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Flaked corn needs to be mashed to convert its starches to sugars. If it's at your LHBS, it may already be gelatinized. If not, you'll need to gelatinize it. 

 

Corn will thin your beer and make it less malty. A lot of craft brewers and home brewers don't like to use it. It's widely used in commercial beers. 

 

Here are a couple of links to help:

 

https://byo.com/mead/item/94-adjuncts-explained

 

http://www.highgravitybrew.com/store/pc/Flaked-Maize-Corn-p3099.htm

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There doesn't seem to be much added value, or at least not anything I'm looking for. I will check out those links you sent. 

Thanks for all of the info!!

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10 hours ago, bpgreen said:

Flaked corn needs to be mashed to convert its starches to sugars. If it's at your LHBS, it may already be gelatinized. If not, you'll need to gelatinize it. 

 

Corn will thin your beer and make it less malty. A lot of craft brewers and home brewers don't like to use it. It's widely used in commercial beers. 

 

Here are a couple of links to help:

 

https://byo.com/mead/item/94-adjuncts-explained

 

http://www.highgravitybrew.com/store/pc/Flaked-Maize-Corn-p3099.htm

My Ethanol comment was mostly a joke, but your links have some useful information. Thanks

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1 hour ago, brybry said:

My Ethanol comment was mostly a joke, but your links have some useful information. Thanks

Excuse me, my naïveté is showing...

:lol:

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The original topic has been updated to include a step by step visual guide to PM brewing. Cheers! :)

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On ‎1‎/‎28‎/‎2016 at 4:53 PM, Big Sarge said:

Has anyone ever steeped or mashed flaked corn? I saw it at my LHBS yesterday and forgot to ask the owner. I'm just wondering what it's use would be. 

I think there is some on one of the new PM kits. Look at what they do with it.

http://www.mrbeer.com/refills/recipes/el-gordito-mexican-lager-partial-mash

 

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29 minutes ago, Nickfixit said:

I think there is some on one of the new PM kits. Look at what they do with it.

http://www.mrbeer.com/refills/recipes/el-gordito-mexican-lager-partial-mash

 

 

I did notice that when I read through the PM descriptions. It looks to me that the flaked corn works well in the lighter beers. Upon initial research, I noticed some would say that they could only be mashed, but it looks to be effective in a steep/partial mash. 

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13 hours ago, Big Sarge said:

 

I did notice that when I read through the PM descriptions. It looks to me that the flaked corn works well in the lighter beers. Upon initial research, I noticed some would say that they could only be mashed, but it looks to be effective in a steep/partial mash. 

 

It does have to be mashed. That's why there is some pilsen malt with it. The pilsen has the diastatic power (using enzymes) to convert the starches in the corn to sugars. If you don't mash with a malt that has diastatic power, then all you will get will be a starchy beer. And starch can promote bacterial growth. So it needs to be broken down to work effectively. It must be steeped at 165 for 30 minutes (this is called "mashing").

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Thanks for the explanation @MRB Josh R 

I am slowly learning about the science of mashing and, while I'm still trying to wrap my head around it, it's all starting to come together. 

Is the main difference between steeping and mashing the temperature they're done at?

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2 minutes ago, Big Sarge said:

Thanks for the explanation @MRB Josh R 

I am slowly learning about the science of mashing and, while I'm still trying to wrap my head around it, it's all starting to come together. 

Is the main difference between steeping and mashing the temperature they're done at?

 

Yes, this is the only difference. Grains that don't need to be mashed can be steeped at any temp. Mashing is simply steeping within a regulated range. Mashing is always steeping, but steeping isn't necessarily mashing. It only becomes mashing when the temperature is controlled for a period of time.

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29 minutes ago, MRB Josh R said:

 

Yes, this is the only difference. Grains that don't need to be mashed can be steeped at any temp. Mashing is simply steeping within a regulated range. Mashing is always steeping, but steeping isn't necessarily mashing. It only becomes mashing when the temperature is controlled for a period of time.

 

Like I said previously, it's all coming together now. One final question: How important is the sparge water temperature when washing the grains?

I will have to do something productive here at work at some point...

Thanks again, Josh!

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33 minutes ago, MRB Josh R said:

Mashing is always steeping

 

What?  Now I'm really confused.  So this is the Monster Steep?   :huh:

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, RickBeer said:

 

What?  Now I'm really confused.  So this is the Monster Steep?   :huh:

 

 

 

 

Yes. Unless they are steeping at 165 for 30 minutes. Then they are mashing.

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5 minutes ago, Big Sarge said:

 

Like I said previously, it's all coming together now. One final question: How important is the sparge water temperature when washing the grains?

I will have to do something productive here at work at some point...

Thanks again, Josh!

 

Not too important. As long as it's hot (tap hot is fine). It's mainly to rinse the grains and doesn't assist in starch conversion because it already happened in the mash.

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All the things I thought I knew, and Josh has to change them.  :angry:

 

It will always be the Monster Mash to me, no matter what he says.  :ph34r:

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7 minutes ago, RickBeer said:

.  So this is the Monster Steep?   

 

It was a graveyard...smeep?

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3 minutes ago, RickBeer said:

All the things I thought I knew, and Josh has to change them.  :angry:

 

It will always be the Monster Mash to me, no matter what he says.  :ph34r:

 

Hey, as long as the Monsters are Mashing at 165 for 30 minutes, they can call it the Monster Mash all they want.

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Steeping Hops? 

 

So I am looking at a recipe, and am confused. It is an all grain recipe, but at the end it calls for steeping the hops? How would you do this, and why? Says to "

Steep/Whirlpool 0.0 min"

 

 

Step #8  -- Would probably do this as a BIAB method. 

Recipe: Imperial Barleywine (63) Double Malted Bliss	TYPE: All Grain
Style: English Barleywine
---RECIPE SPECIFICATIONS-----------------------------------------------
SRM: 13.1 SRM		SRM RANGE: 10.0-22.0 SRM
IBU: 54.3 IBUs Tinseth	IBU RANGE: 35.0-70.0 IBUs
OG: 1.161 SG		OG RANGE: 1.080-1.125 SG
FG: 1.033 SG		FG RANGE: 1.018-1.035 SG
BU:GU: 0.338		Calories: 608.2 kcal/12oz	Est ABV: 17.4 %		
EE%: 71.00 %	Batch: 4.75 gal      Boil: 9.74 gal	BT: 240 Mins

---WATER CHEMISTRY ADDITIONS----------------
   

Total Grain Weight: 28 lbs 8.0 oz	Total Hops: 4.00 oz oz.
---MASH/STEEP PROCESS------MASH PH:5.40 ------
>>>>>>>>>>-ADD WATER CHEMICALS BEFORE GRAINS!!<<<<<<<
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
27 lbs 8.0 oz         Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM)         Grain         1        96.5 %        
4.0 oz                Caramel Malt - 20L (Briess) (20.0 SRM)   Grain         2        0.9 %         
4.0 oz                Caramel Malt - 40L (Briess) (40.0 SRM)   Grain         3        0.9 %         
4.0 oz                Caramel Malt - 60L (Briess) (60.0 SRM)   Grain         4        0.9 %         
4.0 oz                Special Roast (Briess) (50.0 SRM)        Grain         5        0.9 %         


Name              Description                             Step Temperat Step Time     
Low Mash          Add 30.00 qt of water at 160.8 F        145.0 F       90 min        
High Mash         Decoct 3.01 qt of mash and boil it      150.0 F       120 min       

---SPARGE PROCESS---
>>>>>>>>>>-RECYCLE FIRST RUNNINGS & VERIFY GRAIN/MLT TEMPS: 72.0 F/72.0 F
>>>>>>>>>>-ADD BOIL CHEMICALS BEFORE FWH
Fly sparge with 5.91 gal water at 168.0 F

---BOIL PROCESS-----------------------------
Est Pre_Boil Gravity: 1.087 SG	Est OG: 1.161 SG
Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
1.00 oz               Magnum [15.80 %] - Boil 90.0 min         Hop           6        43.8 IBUs     
2.00 oz               Goldings, East Kent [4.10 %] - Boil 15.0 Hop           7        10.5 IBUs     

Amt                   Name                                     Type          #        %/IBU         
1.00 oz               Goldings, East Kent [4.10 %] - Steep/Whi Hop           8        0.0 IBUs      

 

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Flame out add the hops and start cooling. Whirlpool with a spoon during the whole process unless you have a pump with whirlpool arm.

 

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In the FWIW department I saw fly sparge. If your fly sparge is you pouring from a bucket to match the out flow. I would suggest batch sparge, you'll do better.

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Interesting. I thought a fly sparge was supposed to achieve a higher efficiency? Why would a batch sparge do better? 

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16 minutes ago, TacTicToe said:

Interesting. I thought a fly sparge was supposed to achieve a higher efficiency? Why would a batch sparge do better? 

 

Fly sparging IS more efficient IF it's done correctly. Using a proper sparge arm is doing it correctly. Pouring a bucket of water, as Jim pointed out, is not. If you don't have a fly sparge arm that can keep a constant flow, you're better off batch sparging.

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Fly sparging is a great method but adds allot more time to your brew day. Large brewers like this method for they can get the most out of there grain bill. For the small batch folks adding more malt to the recipe makes up for the OG difference if you want to save time. Lets say a recipe calls for a 10lb. for 5 gallons mash. Adding one or two extra pounds (pending on your set up) makes up the sparging difference to hit your marks. So you can see a large brewer would save on the grain cost. I personally I do all grain 5 and 10 gallon batches and like to fly sparge  not for the savings but the love of a complete brewing experience.

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I batch sparge and get over 80% brewhouse efficiency.  Takes me 2 minutes to drain my mash tun and then I add all of my sparge water, stir and let it sit for 5 minutes and then another 2 minutes to drain.  I could drain faster but I drain through a funnel with a screen filter to catch any grain matter that comes through.

 

A lot faster and easier than fly sparging.  No worry about extracting tannins from the PH getting too high.

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This looks like a good read for those looking further into malt selection. There is probably more interesting stuff there too.

 

http://homebrewacademy.com/malt-hot-steep-method/?utm_medium=ppc&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=hot+steep

 

The recipes on this site are interesting and also seem to have a good conversational discussion built in - not just a list of ingredients.

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@MRB Josh R question.....I was making the black beer’d porter-recipe a few weeks ago. 1 week left to go in the fermenter. When I was steeping the grains the water was getting cooler during the 30 min and I might have let the water temp get higher than the 175 range for a short period of time. Did I ruin the wort at that point? I’m scheduled to bottle it next week. Thanks. 

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On 2/25/2018 at 7:53 PM, Jdub said:

@MRB Josh R question.....I was making the black beer’d porter-recipe a few weeks ago. 1 week left to go in the fermenter. When I was steeping the grains the water was getting cooler during the 30 min and I might have let the water temp get higher than the 175 range for a short period of time. Did I ruin the wort at that point? I’m scheduled to bottle it next week. Thanks. 

 

Most likely not. Since this is a partial and not an all-grain, temps aren't as crucial. The worst case scenario is that you extracted a small amount of astringency from the grain husks, but with such a small amount and such a short period of time, this most likely won't be the case. In the future, it doesn't hurt to add a small amount of cold water to bring the temp back down.

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On 2/25/2018 at 8:53 PM, Jdub said:

@MRB Josh R question.....I was making the black beer’d porter-recipe a few weeks ago. 1 week left to go in the fermenter. When I was steeping the grains the water was getting cooler during the 30 min and I might have let the water temp get higher than the 175 range for a short period of time. Did I ruin the wort at that point? I’m scheduled to bottle it next week. Thanks. 

 

I did the same with a partial mash Porter; temps got up around 170 for a bit.  It was only the second or third PM recipe I'd done and man, I was worried.  The end result tasted fine.

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1 hour ago, Shrike said:

 

I did the same with a partial mash Porter; temps got up around 170 for a bit.  It was only the second or third PM recipe I'd done and man, I was worried.  The end result tasted fine.

It was actually north of 180 for a few minutes and i read this thread and was like.....😟

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On 2/27/2018 at 4:52 PM, Shrike said:

 

I did the same with a partial mash Porter; temps got up around 170 for a bit.  It was only the second or third PM recipe I'd done and man, I was worried.  The end result tasted fine.

I brewed the tb ipa a few weeks ago and steeped the grains perfectly ( I think). They smelled so good. Pretty intrigued by the PM recipes. Brew was in cooler at low 60’s for 1st week. Now just leaving alone for final 2 weeks. Not even changing water bottles anymore bc I keep holding 65-68. Probe taped to lbk. Can’t wait to try this in a month or so. 

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@MRB Josh R if adding grains will enhance any recipe, I have a question. I have “that voodoo that you do” recipe on deck for my next batch.  What would you recommend if anything for steeping grains? Or just follow the recipe as is? Thanks. 

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13 hours ago, Jdub said:

@MRB Josh R if adding grains will enhance any recipe, I have a question. I have “that voodoo that you do” recipe on deck for my next batch.  What would you recommend if anything for steeping grains? Or just follow the recipe as is? Thanks. 

 

I would probably enhance that recipe with 2 oz Carapils (for body and head retention) and maybe 2-4 oz malted wheat. Or you can do 2-4 oz flaked barley and 2-4oz 2-row. Or if you want a maltier beer, add 2-4 oz of Munich or Vienna. Read the descriptions of the malt and decide for yourself. Don't be afraid to experiment a little.

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38 minutes ago, MRB Josh R said:

 

I would probably enhance that recipe with 2 oz Carapils (for body and head retention) and maybe 2-4 oz malted wheat. Or you can do 2-4 oz flaked barley and 2-4oz 2-row. Or if you want a maltier beer, ass 2-4 oz of Munich or Vienna. Read the descriptions of the malt and decide for yourself. Don't be afraid to experiment a little.

 

@MRB Josh R, I don't claim to have anywhere near the experience that you do, nor am I conversant in every brewing technique, but could you explain, for the education of all on the forum, how one "ass(es)" 2-4 oz of Munich or Vienna"?  Specifically, the steps in the assing technique?

 

:blink:

 

:D

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2 minutes ago, RickBeer said:

 

@MRB Josh R, I don't claim to have anywhere near the experience that you do, nor am I conversant in every brewing technique, but could you explain, for the education of all on the forum, how one "ass(es)" 2-4 oz of Munich or Vienna"?  Specifically, the steps in the assing technique?

 

:blink:

 

:D

 

*add

 

lol! :lol:

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I think I speak for all forum users when I say I am disappointed that your response didn't crack open good information, you know bare facts. 

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I brewed the Calavera stout recipe the other day, that calls for black malt, and chocolate malt. The grains in those two were quite a bit different looking than the grains in my Carapils. 

 

@MRB Josh R I hand crushed the Carapils but the black and chocolate malt grains looked more like Folgers Crystals in their freeze dried coffee, than actual grains. I went ahead and lighly hand crushed them, but was wondering if that was necessary since they appeared to already have gone through some processing stage?

 

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On ‎3‎/‎23‎/‎2018 at 1:25 PM, RickBeer said:

I think I speak for all forum users when I say I am disappointed that your response didn't crack open good information, you know bare facts. 

Yeah, we expected a moon shot.

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52 minutes ago, RickBeer said:

Mr. Beer ships grains already milled.

Thanks Rickbeer! Explains the dust in the bags. Does that effect the freshness of the grains?

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4 hours ago, Cato said:

I brewed the Calavera stout recipe the other day, that calls for black malt, and chocolate malt. The grains in those two were quite a bit different looking than the grains in my Carapils. 

 

@MRB Josh R I hand crushed the Carapils but the black and chocolate malt grains looked more like Folgers Crystals in their freeze dried coffee, than actual grains. I went ahead and lighly hand crushed them, but was wondering if that was necessary since they appeared to already have gone through some processing stage?

 

 

Don't crush the grains anymore than they already are. This will reduce the efficiency of them and can promote more tannins in your beer causing an unpleasant astringency. We mill all grains before we ship them because we know that not everyone has a grain mill at home.

 

The black and chocolate malts are kilned at higher temps. That is why they are darker.

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1 hour ago, MRB Josh R said:

 

Don't crush the grains anymore than they already are. This will reduce the efficiency of them and can promote more tannins in your beer causing an unpleasant astringency. We mill all grains before we ship them because we know that not everyone has a grain mill at home.

 

The black and chocolate malts are kilned at higher temps. That is why they are darker.

Okay will remember that for in the future for sure. Was brewing the Calavera chile stout recipe and in the fermenter now so it'll be 3 weeks before I know whether that has caused any off flavor or not and still have to add the vanilla and cinnamon. Hope its not going to be a screwed up batch, but I'll definitely taste test it before bottling, so I'll know whether its worth the keeping.

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7 hours ago, Bonsai & Brew said:

The new Day After Day IPA recipe released today looks great but the instructions forgot to include the oat flake steep.

https://www.mrbeer.com/day-after-day-ipa


Additionally, the recipe includes only two hop sacks.  As written it requires three.  With the flaked oats it needs three.

Either way, this looks tasty and I've added it to my "to brew queue".

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2 minutes ago, Shrike said:

@MRB-Rick
Additionally, the recipe includes only two hop sacks.  As written it requires three.  With the flaked oats it needs four.

Either way, this looks tasty and I've added it to my "to brew queue".

I wasn't sure if Mr. Beer is advising a commando-style dry-hop either but I agree that for a 'malt guy,' this recipe gets brewed this summer.

 

looking forward to all the recipes in this series!

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37 minutes ago, Bonsai & Brew said:

I wasn't sure if Mr. Beer is advising a commando-style dry-hop either but I agree that for a 'malt guy,' this recipe gets brewed this summer.

 

looking forward to all the recipes in this series!

I think that's the first one of their recipes I've seen that says to just dump the hop pellets in.

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1 minute ago, Shrike said:

I think that's the first one of their recipes I've seen that says to just dump the hop pellets in.

The instructions do specify using clean scissors to open the hop packs so this must have been intentional.  Earth-shattering!🍻

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6 hours ago, Bonsai & Brew said:

The new Day After Day IPA recipe released today looks great but the instructions forgot to include the oat flake steep.

https://www.mrbeer.com/day-after-day-ipa

 

ps  no 2-row?

 

That was my thought, too. The oats won't do anything without the enzymes in 2-row to convert the starches (the unconverted starches can also promote an infection). I'd leave the oats out anyway since they aren't even in the original beer, which I'm assuming is Founder's All-Day IPA (oats are only added to hazy NEIPAs). Should be some Crystal and/or carapils malt in there instead.

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18 hours ago, JoshR said:

 

That was my thought, too. The oats won't do anything without the enzymes in 2-row to convert the starches (the unconverted starches can also promote an infection). I'd leave the oats out anyway since they aren't even in the original beer, which I'm assuming is Founder's All-Day IPA (oats are only added to hazy NEIPAs). Should be some Crystal and/or carapils malt in there instead.

What? the haze is from OATs not HOPs? I have been misled.

 

You are right , the oat starch can lead to infections but so far I have not had any and at times have used oats, flaked wheat or oat/wheat mix with no issues, and note that some brewers add flour to brews to get cloudiness. But then I only have 2 gal to lose :-). I saw one recipe that had like 3 lbs of oats in a 5 gal IPA. (AG so no starch issue)  - that is HUGE -  like thin hoppy oatmeal lol.

 

Maybe there would be a market for Oat extract (50% Oat/50% Barley, similar to the wheat extracts)?

 

I would also add that a  Steeped bag of flaked oats or wheat is REALLY tough to rinse out and tends to make starch glue.

So addition of barley malt and rice hulls really helps tone it down a bit and let it drain - but still tough to rinse out. The last one I did (Lemon Drop Saison) used  4 oz Flaked wheat, with  4 oz Vienna Malt Grain. 4 oz Pils malt  and that rinsed OK.

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On 5/13/2019 at 7:44 AM, Nickfixit said:

What? the haze is from OATs not HOPs? I have been misled.

 

No, only partly. While the oats do contribute some haze, they're mostly for body. The haze is a mixture of proteins from the oats (and other grains), suspended yeast (this is why NEIPAs use low-flocculating English yeasts), and suspended hop oils.

 

On 5/13/2019 at 7:44 AM, Nickfixit said:

You are right , the oat starch can lead to infections but so far I have not had any and at times have used oats, flaked wheat or oat/wheat mix with no issues, and note that some brewers add flour to brews to get cloudiness. But then I only have 2 gal to lose :-). I saw one recipe that had like 3 lbs of oats in a 5 gal IPA. (AG so no starch issue)  - that is HUGE -  like thin hoppy oatmeal lol.

 

An infection probably won't happen unless you're aging the beer for long periods of time, and since IPAs aren't normally aged and should be consumed fresh, it's probably a non-issue here.

 

On 5/13/2019 at 7:44 AM, Nickfixit said:

Maybe there would be a market for Oat extract (50% Oat/50% Barley, similar to the wheat extracts)?

 

I have used oat milk before with some success. It should go into the mash, though, since it's still mostly starch.

 

On 5/13/2019 at 7:44 AM, Nickfixit said:

 

I would also add that a  Steeped bag of flaked oats or wheat is REALLY tough to rinse out and tends to make starch glue.

So addition of barley malt and rice hulls really helps tone it down a bit and let it drain - but still tough to rinse out. The last one I did (Lemon Drop Saison) used  4 oz Flaked wheat, with  4 oz Vienna Malt Grain. 4 oz Pils malt  and that rinsed OK.

 

This is another reason why oats and other flaked products should ALWAYS be mixed with 2-row (or rice hulls). The husks in the 2-row help provide efficiency with water flow. Just putting oats in a muslin sack on their own only creates a gooey and dense "dough-ball" that the water cannot penetrate. That means you're only pulling from the surface of the dough-ball, while the inside stays shielded from water access. Using some 2-row (or 6-row) prevents this.

But I guess if they say it tastes like the real thing, who am I to argue? lol

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