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JoshR Cascadian Dark Ale

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My next beer is going to be the Cascadian Dark Ale JoshR mentioned in the tinkering with winter dark ale thread. Recpie is for a five gallon batch split between two LBKs.

Malts:

5.72lb (2 cans) Winter Dark HME

1.10lb (2 soft packs) Robust LME

1.5lb Briess Golden Light LME

Hops:

1oz Summit for 60 min boil

1oz Simco for 20min boil

1oz Falconers Flight at flame out

1/2oz Falconers Flight 5 day dry hop each LBK.

Yeast:

SafAle US-05

OG: 1.068

FG: 1.017

abv: 6.6%

abw: 5.2%

Only question I have is should I hop stand the Falconers Flight after flameout and if so how long?

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My next beer is going to be the Cascadian Dark Ale JoshR mentioned in the tinkering with winter dark ale thread. Recpie is for a five gallon batch split between two LBKs.

Malts:

5.72lb (2 cans) Winter Dark HME

1.10lb (2 soft packs) Robust LME

1.5lb Briess Golden Light LME

Hops:

1oz Summit for 60 min boil

1oz Simco for 20min boil

1oz Falconers Flight at flame out

1/2oz Falconers Flight 5 day dry hop each LBK.

Yeast:

SafAle US-05

OG: 1.068

FG: 1.017

abv: 6.6%

abw: 5.2%

Only question I have is should I hop stand the Falconers Flight after flameout and if so how long?

 

That would be personal preference, but I personally wouldn't do it. The hop schedule as it stands will give you plenty of bitterness and aroma. Doing a hop stand may slightly boost your bitterness, but take away from your flavor/aroma. Keep in mind that Summit is one of the highest alpha hops on the market. It doesn't need any help with bittering. This recipe will give you 100+ IBUs.

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That would be personal preference, but I personally wouldn't do it. The hop schedule as it stands will give you plenty of bitterness and aroma. Doing a hop stand may slightly boost your bitterness, but take away from your flavor/aroma. Keep in mind that Summit is one of the highest alpha hops on the market. It doesn't need any help with bittering. This recipe will give you 100+ IBUs.

 

Wondering if I should kick the Summit back to 0.75oz and the Simco back to 0.75 yet keep the rest of the hop schedule the same. If the human palette can not discern bitterness over 100 IBU why waste the hops.

 

Or maybe I could do 1/2oz Summit and 1/2oz Simcoe for 60 minute boil, skip the 20 minute boil and keep the 1oz Falconer's Flight for the flameout and dry hop. QBrew numbers put that schedule at 86 for the IBU's.

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I wouldn't use the Simcoe with the Summit at boil. It's a waste of Simcoe. You want the flavor from the Simcoe, not the bitterness. You'd be better off cutting back the amounts slightly if you don't want to waste the hops. Otherwise, I'd just stick to the schedule.

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That would be personal preference, but I personally wouldn't do it. The hop schedule as it stands will give you plenty of bitterness and aroma. Doing a hop stand may slightly boost your bitterness, but take away from your flavor/aroma. Keep in mind that Summit is one of the highest alpha hops on the market. It doesn't need any help with bittering. This recipe will give you 100+ IBUs.

 

Josh- I don't get the bolded part. I thought the point of a hop stand is to increase flavor & aroma from flameout additions by allowing them extended contact with the wort prior to chilling all the way down to pitching / fermenting temp ... ? 

 

I generally add flameout / hop stand additions around 180 degrees and then put a lid on my pot to keep any vapors in the kettle. Thanks-

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I wouldn't use the Simcoe with the Summit at boil. It's a waste of Simcoe. You want the flavor from the Simcoe, not the bitterness. You'd be better off cutting back the amounts slightly if you don't want to waste the hops. Otherwise, I'd just stick to the schedule.

 

I'll just stick with the original schedule. Go big or stay home, right? 

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Josh- I don't get the bolded part. I thought the point of a hop stand is to increase flavor & aroma from flameout additions by allowing them extended contact with the wort prior to chilling all the way down to pitching / fermenting temp ... ? 

 

I generally add flameout / hop stand additions around 180 degrees and then put a lid on my pot to keep any vapors in the kettle. Thanks-

 

Doing a hop stand will increase bitterness slightly. It will also increase flavor and aroma, but not as much as if you didn't do a hop stand at all. The hot temps will isomerize the alpha acids creating bitterness, but they will also destroy some of the flavor and aroma compounds found in the oils (the longer you let it stand, the more bitterness you will get, but less flavor/aroma). This may vary depending on hops used, but I've found that hop stands are basically pointless if doing a full hop schedule. If supplementing HMEs, they are useful, but for a full hop schedule, I don't see the point.

 

Since this schedule already has a 20 minute flavor addition, there's no need for a hop stand.

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Was ordering some equipment from Northern Brewer on Amazon, and they accidentally sent me their Black IPA.  I called and told them their error.  They said they were sending my correct order and to keep the recipe!

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Doing a hop stand will increase bitterness slightly. It will also increase flavor and aroma, but not as much as if you didn't do a hop stand at all. The hot temps will isomerize the alpha acids creating bitterness, but they will also destroy some of the flavor and aroma compounds found in the oils (the longer you let it stand, the more bitterness you will get, but less flavor/aroma). This may vary depending on hops used, but I've found that hop stands are basically pointless if doing a full hop schedule. If supplementing HMEs, they are useful, but for a full hop schedule, I don't see the point.

 

Since this schedule already has a 20 minute flavor addition, there's no need for a hop stand.

Josh, what's your opinion on flameout vs dry hop or combination of both?

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Vakko!! Welcome back! :D

 

I like to do a combo of both, personally. I really like to infuse as much hop flavor/aroma into my pales and IPAs (and some reds) as possible. And doing both really helps to create complex flavors when using different hop varieties. So I don't really have an opinion one one versus the other because I always do both.

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How do you feel about the same recipe but Smooth Soft packs instead of Robust?  That would be an excellent way to use my last 2 cans of WDA. 

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I'd take the 1 oz of FF and cool the wort to 170 before throwing it in for 30-45 minutes. This is low enough that you won't isomerize the alpha acids (i.e., no bitterness) but release more aroma & flavour molecules. Stir every 5-10 minutes to disperse the oils.

 

But that's just me...

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welcome back vakko!!! yea I've ordered from northern brewer, got three 5 gal. recipes on sale, they pack their stuff really well, I've had competitors have leaks, etc.,  with their hme's. but if you're one for savings, I go with AIH, they're packaging is little cheaper, however, they're pricing is far below other competitors

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How do you feel about the same recipe but Smooth Soft packs instead of Robust?  That would be an excellent way to use my last 2 cans of WDA. 

 

That should work fine, but it will be a bit lighter (though you might not notice) and it might be missing some of the slightly roasty flavor that is a characteristic of CDAs. It would still come out really nice, though.

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How do you feel about the same recipe but Smooth Soft packs instead of Robust?  That would be an excellent way to use my last 2 cans of WDA. 

 

http://support.mrbeer.com/support/solutions/articles/5000523044-black-moon-rising-recipe-instructions

 

its goooood.  hoppy, malty, not too much of either.  I do not care for big hop beers, and I like the way this one turned out a lot.  

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I like using Beersmith, but I use Qbrew for all the Mr. Beer stuff since they have a database. I'm building one for Beersmith, but it's been a low priority lately as I have larger projects that need more attention right now.

 

Here is the website for Qbrew. It's free and the Mr. Beer database should be on there. It's fairly up to date, but it will be missing the Seasonals. Scroll down on the page for the download and the Mr. Beer database download. There are also instructions on installing the database.

 

http://www.thescrewybrewer.com/2010/09/qbrew-homebrewers-recipe-calculator.html

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Vakko, on 27 Oct 2015 - 4:20 PM, said:Vakko, on 27 Oct 2015 - 4:20 PM, said:

Was ordering some equipment from Northern Brewer on Amazon, and they accidentally sent me their Black IPA.  I called and told them their error.  They said they were sending my correct order and to keep the recipe!

Interesting, I see they also do 1 gal kits - a relatively cheap way to see if you like the recipe.

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Yep, I'm trying a few 1G kits (extract and all grain) from there and a few other places to see if I can do it and see how it turns out/tastes. So far soooo gooood....

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Vakko!! Welcome back! :D

 

I like to do a combo of both, personally. I really like to infuse as much hop flavor/aroma into my pales and IPAs (and some reds) as possible. And doing both really helps to create complex flavors when using different hop varieties. So I don't really have an opinion one one versus the other because I always do both.

Thanks a lot!  Baby was born and beer took a 5 month vacation.

 

Additionally, I have also adopted the "BOTH" technique.  I do a 20 minute flameout and dry hop after primary fermentation has completed.  I've been using whole hops for my dry hops. (such a pain to weigh out and bag).

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Thanks a lot! Baby was born and beer took a 5 month vacation.

Dude, your values are all screwed up. Baby before beer? Are you freakin' kidding me? :blink:

Kidding of course - proud parent to two beer guzzling young men, who once crapped out the back of their diapers, one up to his shoulder blades on a regular basis... While I enjoy them as young men (they carry the luggage on trips), I do miss the days (post sleeping through the night) when I came home and one or the other would yell out "Daddy!" and rush towards the door. Oldest used to stand on the baseboard heat to get his eyes over the window sill to wave goodbye, sometimes I had to sit for 2 or 3 minutes until he got it right...

Now, they drink my beer... That reminds me, older one is coming to town this weekend, so I need to add extra beer to the fridge...

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 when I came home and one or the other would yell out "Daddy!" and rush towards the door. 

 

My son is two and a half, there are very few things in the world as good as this. 

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Over the years we'd go on a ski trip.  I'd drop Mom and the boys off at the terminal with all the bags, bring bags inside, and then go park the car, take the shuttle, then come back and check the bags in and go through security, lugging our boot bags.  By the time I got to the gate I was wringing wet.

 

As the years went on, I could bring bags inside and then make trips to the line, and they could cope with checking in.  I still had to carry the boot bags to the gate and was wringing wet.

 

One year I dropped them off, brought bags inside, and when I came back on the shuttle I couldn't find them.  They were at the gate waiting for me...  I was not wringing wet.

 

One year we flew to Washington state, then drove to Canada.  At the hotel I was asked if I needed a bellman. I said that I had brought 2 with me.

 

Unfortunately, when they get useful they move out shortly thereafter.  Our youngest is back after grad school, he moves the lawn every week and helped me wash and wax the truck and car yesterday, and will help with the deer fence in the next week or so.  This summer he helped prep beds and spread 34 yards of mulch.

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Brew day... Been tinkering with the hop schedule the past few days.

Here it goes.

0.75oz Summit 60 min boil

0.50oz Simcoe 20 min boil

1.00oz Falconers Flight at flameout

0.50oz Falconers Flight per LBK dry hop 5 days

This schedule, according to QBrew, puts bitterness around 90 and I'm hoping it still gives some flavor and lots of aroma.

Now I have to go to the LHBS for the hops, muslin sacks and yeast.

I would boil 1/2 oz Summit hops (or Columbus) with a Robust LME (for color) and a Golden LME (for head retention and body) in 6-8 cups of water for 60 minutes, then add my malt and either 1/2 oz of Falconer's Flight or Simcoe at flameout. Then I'd dry-hop with 1/2 oz FF or Simcoe for 5-7 days. And I'd pitch US-05 yeast. I would also add 1/2 tsp of gypsum to my water (adds sulfate which will enhance the hop profile and the calcium acts as a yeast nutrient). This would make a nice "Cascadian Dark Ale" (aka, "Black IPA"....ugh....I hate that term...).

EDIT: I might add 1/2 Simcoe at 20-30 mins in the boil, too.

@MRB JoshR when would I add the Gypsum?

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Brewed this batch with the adjusted hop schedule and pitched the yeast at 1800 last night. Recipe came in pretty close to the QBrew calculated OG of 1.067, I hit 1.060 at 62 degrees.

Sampled a small shot glass size of the wort before pitching the yeast and it tastes like a standard WDA with some noticeable bitterness and fruity flavor. Can't wait to sample the final product.

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It's interesting to see how we are all adding a pound or so of DME (or the LME equivalents) which should boost ABV by at least a whole percentage point, yet we are all seeing this beer come out around 6% instead of 6.5 or higher.

 

I am not "chasing ABV", mind you, it's just consistent that we see the WDA refill listed as 5.5% but it can't be that high, because I KNOW we are getting at least 1% boost of ABV by the pound or so of malt extract we are all adding.

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Because it's really 5 - 5.1, and adding the pound of DME puts you around 6.  

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I made it once, was 4.9% for me. ^_^

I can't remember offhand what my batch of WDA came in at, maybe 4.7%-4.8% but it is plenty tasty.

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Primary fermentation is going full bore and there is a very hoppy smell in my cooler. It smells delicious.

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I just brewed the original recipe from the first post. I waited a few weeks to do this one and I don't think I'll be disappointed. Wife says the whole house stinks, I think it smells wonderful. Thanks for the recipe

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I just brewed the original recipe from the first post. I waited a few weeks to do this one and I don't think I'll be disappointed. Wife says the whole house stinks, I think it smells wonderful. Thanks for the recipe

Brew day my wife says the same thing. Pfft... She'll never understand.

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I have to adjust my fermentation schedule a little due to the holiday and work. I'm doing to start the dry hop Monday, cold crash Friday and bottle on Monday the 30th.

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Brewed on Friday night, woke up Saturday to a very nice start of krausen. Sunday morning woke up to find my blow off tube couldn't handle the load and my fermentation fridge has krausen all over it. Blow off blew right off... Hopefully it wasn't exposed for too long.

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Brewed on Friday night, woke up Saturday to a very nice start of krausen. Sunday morning woke up to find my blow off tube couldn't handle the load and my fermentation fridge has krausen all over it. Blow off blew right off... Hopefully it wasn't exposed for too long.

How much yeast did you put in. I brewed a five gallon batch of WDA straight, split between two LBKs, with 5.75 grams of US-05 with no overflow. Same with the Cascadian Dark Ale.

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Nm it was 11.5 grams of yeast. Had to dig the package out of the garbage to be sure.

Hummmmmm....

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Shouldnt have blew.  Well, 1.060 is pretty high, Itll be the highest ABV beer Ive brewed so far.  And highest IBUs by far. 

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Shouldnt have blew. Well, 1.060 is pretty high, Itll be the highest ABV beer Ive brewed so far. And highest IBUs by far.

The Cascadian Dark Ale came in at 1.060, pitched 5.75 grams of US-05 per LBK (at 64 degrees) and had no blowout. Each LBK was filled to 2.5 gallon, too so I had very little head space. What temperature did you ferment at? I keep mine between 64-66 during primary fermentation.

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Same here, I have my controller set to 65. I check it every day and it's spot on. The brew de ale ze bub is sitting right next next to it. They must've been goofing off and things got out of control. That's the only thing I can think of

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Same here, I have my controller set to 65. I check it every day and it's spot on. The brew de ale ze bub is sitting right next next to it. They must've been goofing off and things got out of control. That's the only thing I can think of

One brew trying to show off for the other. :lol

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OMG!!!!! This batch is freaking delicious!!!! Sampled a shot glass size while bottling its a basic winter dark with a very earthy-piny forward taste with a nice fruity aftertaste. After six weeks conditioning this batch should be outstanding.

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IME with the WDA/WDIPAs that I have made, you'll start to lose some of the hops at 6 weeks.

Well since the original gravity came in at 1.060 I figured six weeks conditioning would be minimum. I'll try one or two at four weeks and report back.

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Heh - I was drinking mine as soon as they were carbed. I think 3 weeks is about as far as I'd let mine go, as far as hops-freshness. It might be a better beer in 6-8 weeks, with the actual beer behind the hops conditioning out, but as I have mentioned before, I am treating mine like IPAs so that means the fresher, the better.

 

It will definitely be interesting to see how yours comes out!

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I got this mix of 2 oz each Dark Choc malted grain and Pale  Choc Malted Grain.  I was going to use them in a Porter (along with a smooth and a robust LME pack) , but with all this talk of dark lagers, I was wondering if I can use them with a Pilsner HME and maybe  a bit more of some malt, light or dark for a dark Pilsnerish Ale.

 

Thoughts?

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Hummmmmm.... Not sure if my brew caught an infection or if it's supposed to taste like it does. Best I can describe;

The look: Nice and dark with a thick, creamy head and good lacing the glass.

The aroma: Smells like a chocolate bar melting in the fall sun on a pile of fallen leaves.

The flavor: Tastes like a winter dark ale that has noticeable bitterness, yet also sweet with a hint of citrus after taste.

It's easy to drink, not "nasty" tasting like something spoiled, more like something I wasn't expecting. Granted it's at 12 days post bottling so I'm just hoping after a couple more weeks the flavors find a happy medium.

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1 ltr bottles, one shot of smooth whiskey in a few bottles. What do you think Sabres? Appropriate?

Could be on to something. What were we talking about again?

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Hummmmmm.... Not sure if my brew caught an infection or if it's supposed to taste like it does. Best I can describe;

The look: Nice and dark with a thick, creamy head and good lacing the glass.

The aroma: Smells like a chocolate bar melting in the fall sun on a pile of fallen leaves.

The flavor: Tastes like a winter dark ale that has noticeable bitterness, yet also sweet with a hint of citrus after taste.

It's easy to drink, not "nasty" tasting like something spoiled, more like something I wasn't expecting. Granted it's at 12 days post bottling so I'm just hoping after a couple more weeks the flavors find a happy medium.

 

With all the hops you added, I imagine that's how it is probably supposed to taste.

 

 :)

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With all the hops you added, I imagine that's how it is probably supposed to taste.

 

 :)

I just followed JoshR's recipe and cut back a little on the hop schedule.

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Hummmmmm.... Not sure if my brew caught an infection or if it's supposed to taste like it does. Best I can describe;

The look: Nice and dark with a thick, creamy head and good lacing the glass.

The aroma: Smells like a chocolate bar melting in the fall sun on a pile of fallen leaves.

The flavor: Tastes like a winter dark ale that has noticeable bitterness, yet also sweet with a hint of citrus after taste.

It's easy to drink, not "nasty" tasting like something spoiled, more like something I wasn't expecting. Granted it's at 12 days post bottling so I'm just hoping after a couple more weeks the flavors find a happy medium.

I just bottled mine last night and it tasted freaking great!!! I went with the original posted hop schedule but no dry hopping (cuz I forgot).

Didn't you say yours tasted great at bottling too? You're getting me nervous

Took a FG reading and came up with 6.04 abv, then this morning I realized that was with my priming sugar in already... Say maybe I'm at 6.2??? No idea.

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I just bottled mine last night and it tasted freaking great!!! I went with the original posted hop schedule but no dry hopping (cuz I forgot).

Didn't you say yours tasted great at bottling too? You're getting me nervous

Took a FG reading and came up with 6.04 abv, then this morning I realized that was with my priming sugar in already... Say maybe I'm at 6.2??? No idea.

At bottling it has a very nice hoppy aroma and taste, at 12 days the chocolate notes and aroma of the WDA started to come out, almost overpowering the hops. Still drinkable though. I'll see what changes in a couple of weeks.

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I ended up taking 9 16 oz bottles and adding a shot of bourbon to them. I'll wait at least two months before cracking one of those babies

As far as taste at bottling I thought it was very smooth and not overly hoppy. I was also drinking a Founders Centennial IPA while bottling so maybe my hop tastebuds were distorted.

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I think you'll be disappointed at what a shot of bourbon does (or doesn't do).  But now you'll find out.  Compare side by side, BLIND if possible, with the ones you did not add bourbon to.

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I think you'll be disappointed at what a shot of bourbon does (or doesn't do).  But now you'll find out.  Compare side by side, BLIND if possible, with the ones you did not add bourbon to.

Imagine if you will...

 

February, Green Bay WI...  A foot of snow staring at you, your snow blower idling in anticipation.  Youre thinking "Shoot, its cold out here... Better get a bottle of my very own Snowblower Bourbon Batch"

 

That sir is the exact scenario for which I used some bourbon.  I have (9) 16 oz bottles with bourbon and (37) 12 oz bottles w/o to compare.

 

I was on the fence about the bourbon until I had a Hinterland "White Out" White IPA from bourbon barrels.  High IBU and High ABV, It made me a believer

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Yeah, but the bourbon without the wood doesn't yield the same.  That's why people put in oak chips and such that are soaked in bourbon.  Regardless, you'll know in a month or more.

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Gonna have to let this Batch age for a bit.  Calculated on Qbrew (shout out to Rick Beer) came out to 139 IBU's...  LOL didnt taste that bitter at bottling.  Well see. 

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Bah, don't trust the numbers, trust your taste buds.

 

I've had 100+ IBU beers that were awesome, and I've had an 82 IBU beer (Uinta's Hop Nosh) that tastes like sucking on the pith of a grapefruit. No bueno.

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Keep in mind that taste buds cannot perceive bitterness higher than 100 IBUs.

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What I am saying is, some beers with lower IBUs can taste more bitter than ones with higher IBUs, or even the same.

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What I am saying is, some beers with lower IBUs can taste more bitter than ones with higher IBUs, or even the same.

 

This is due to co-humulone. It is the level of co-humulone in the alpha acids that will dictate the type of bitterness the beer will have. Higher co-humulone hops tend to have a more bracing or harsh bitterness, while lower levels of co-humulone tend to have a softer more rounded bitterness. So determining bitterness by IBUs doesn't really work because it's mostly the co-humulone that determines bitterness, not the alpha acids themselves. Any hops above 25% will have high co-humulone content and will therefore taste more bitter than hops that have a content below 25% (most Noble hops are below 20%). Hop Union has a great list that shows the co-humulone contents of most varieties. Keep these numbers in mind when choosing bittering hops for hop-forward beers.

 

http://www.hopunion.com/hop-varieties/

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This Founders Centennial IPA Im drinking is extremely bitter to me.  Its rated at 65 IBU's

 

Founders Double Trouble is rated at 86 and it doesnt bother me at all.

 

Josh R taught me something tonight.  Im going to print that post off, and the link and keep it in my brew diary.  Endless knowledge on this forum

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Re: Bourbon in beer. The best place to mix the bourbon into the beer is in your stomach.

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ok, I just found out I have a 3 day weekend for three weekends in a row and i'm f^%$@ing JAZZED! so! i'm gonna do 2- 2.5 gallon batches this weekend, next weekend, and so on, not to mention already 3 separate 5 gal. recipes goin at the same time! to be in secondary or bottling around the 31st. ok enuf of that! Tonight! ( this morning to most), Smoked Cherrywood Winter Dark Ale. won't start this one til sat. night., so here r my specs, anyone care to advise/comment i'll take any suggestions. HME- 2 cans WDA, 1 oz. Cascade hops, 2 oz. Smoked Cherrywood Malt, 2 boosters, 4oz Traditional DME, dissolve boosters then add dme and bring to boil then remove, at same time, steep grains for 30 min. @ 150 average, add 1/2 hop and bring to boil for 10 min., remove frm heat, add dme/booster and hme and 1/2 oz hop. The other recipe is gonna be a wild wheat from mr. beer archive, with honey malt added, keep it simple starting that in a few after I've had a few.....hehehehe

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Second bottle of this brew tastes much better. The bittness, fruity flavor and the base notes of the winter dark ale have blended well. I can't wait to share this with my family Christmas Eve.

Thank you for posting the recipe, JoshR.

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A little more of a review on this brew. It's nice and dark with a nice thick head. Nice fruity aromatic notes with hints of chocolate. On first sip there is a very hop forward bitterness with earthy-piny flavors. Finishes with a nice crisp-clean fruity flavor with hints of chocolate. Overall a very drinkable beer and one I will definitely share with friends. 

 

Hint to the Mr. Beer staff. This brew would make a great specialty craft series and should fly off the shelves. 

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No more WDA, unfortunately...

 

:(

 

Say, when are we supposed to see these two new craft refills???

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10 hours ago, slym2none said:

No more WDA, unfortunately...

But Coopers has the power to make more. :thumbup:

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Coopers has "Dark Ale" refills for 5 Gal on their site. Is it the same after brewing (although intended to be used with Brew Enhancer)?

Has anyone tried it?

Should work for you guys that do 5 gal and make enhancements to the recipe.

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My next batch will be after the holidays. I'm thinking of a traditional IPA with the same hop schedule. I'll also add some Irish Moss.  

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After five weeks conditioning there is a noticeable difference compared to bottles I drank at three and four weeks. At five weeks there is still plenty of bitterness but the fruity aroma and flavor are beginning to dissipate and the base WDA flavors are becoming more pronounced. Still a drinkable and tastey brew in my opinion, just a little different. 

 

If only Mr. Beer would bring the WDA back. (Hint Hint) I could make another five gallon batch. 

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On ‎1‎/‎6‎/‎2016 at 1:53 AM, sabres032 said:

If only Mr. Beer would bring the WDA back. (Hint Hint) I could make another five gallon batch. 

Seems like you need to do some more testing - lol.

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