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sabres032

LME, boiling hops and color.

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I'm trying to narrow down an IPA recipe. I'm planning on using pale and golden LME  (maybe 7 pounds or so) for a nice pale to golden color with this hop schedule:

 

1oz Summit for 60 min boil

1oz Simco for 20min boil

1oz Falconers Flight at flame out

1/2oz Falconers Flight 5 day dry hop each LBK.

 

I know the longer an extract is  boiled the darker it will become. I am thinking of a 2:1 or 3:1 pale to golden ratio to maintain my desired color.

 

My number one question; is there a preferred ratio of LME for the 60 minute bitter boil?  Like maybe 60% of my LME for an hour with an ounce of bittering hops then add the the remaining LME with the flavor hops for 10 minutes? Or should I just boil the whole amount of LME at once with the hops? 

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I've read that you want to use 1/4 to 1/3 of your lme/dme for the bulk of the boil and add the remainder the last 10 minutes. That will help keep the color close to what you want.

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14 minutes ago, scouterbill said:

 

I've read that you want to use 1/4 to 1/3 of your lme/dme for the bulk of the boil and add the remainder the last 10 minutes. That will help keep the color close to what you want.

 

+1 to this.

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OK, sounds good. I'm also planning on using Irish Moss to add clarity and what I've been reading that needs to be added for the final 15 minutes of the boil. I'm assuming all the LME should be added before the Irish Moss?? If so an extra five minutes boiling shouldn't effect the color I'm aiming for. 

 

I guess I could also adjust the Simco from 20 to 15 minutes

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I am not certain, but I think the Irish Moss needs to be boiled to disperse, but it doesn't do its work until after the boil. So, you are safe putting the extract in afterward. But as you said, there's really no harm in boiling the extract for 5 minutes longer, if you feel more comfortable going that route.

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I've always thrown the Irish moss in during the last 10 minutes of the boil if that helps. Always works great.

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I'm going to finalize a recipe tomorrow on QBrew (I'll post then), buy the ingredients Thursday after my core content class and then brew Saturday.  I'm down to two cases of beer after the holiday parties and handing out six packs to friends and family. I need to get cracking on building the pipeline back up. 

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I had an opportunity to brew today so I took it... Going to pitch the yeast in a few minutes.. Posted the recipe in Basic Recipes.

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Once you have boiled the hops in 1/4 of the extract and water, why is there need to boil the remainder of the extract, can't you just add it after the boil like with Mr B recipes?

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Probably not a real pressing need to do a boil of the remaining extract. However, if I just spent the better part of an hour with hop additions and the cost involved (hops & dme/lme) I know that the extra 10 minutes to boil the remaining malt extract to be sure that it is sanitized is a small price to pay. But that's just me. ;)

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I don't usually get a hot break anyway. Certainly not with LME and usually not with DME if I mix it in cold them heat it while stirring.

I only seem to get foam when putting DME in hot water and not always a lot then even.

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From what I've read, the extract manufacturers incorporate a hot break into their production of the extract. Because of that, there should be no reason to boil extract other than for hop bittering and sanitization. 

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I use LME exclusively and have never had a hot break.  I also add all the LME after my steep, then bring to a boil, then do my hop additions.  That's what the recipes I've used call for, and since I brew amber/reds/browns/porters/stouts the color is irrelevant to me (it would be irrelevant even if I brewed light beers).  

 

I read research on adding just enough LME to be 1.03 - 1.04 then adding the rest at the end, versus all up front.  To me, the utilization differences (if they really exist because some say they don't) are so small I continue to add all at once.

 

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I would think Mr B DME would respond to same treatment:

Lots of on-line comments about steam making DME stick to everything - it does in my kitchen if I add it to boil.

 

From makers of DME-

Q: What is the best way to dissolve Briess DME?

A: The trick is not to dissolve in boiling water. Our product is a natural humectant meaning it is a very hygroscopic substance, as the steam from the boil rises it is actually caking the extract before it hits the water and creates clumping that makes dissolving difficult. The best thing to do is dissolve your DME in water 100°F - 120°F, make a slurry and add to your boil. Alternatively, Briess DME will dissolve in tap water. So you could choose to dissolve it in tap water then add the slurry to your water and bring it to a boil.

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I add the dme to my pot as its coming up to temp. Never had a problem with clumping. It's sticky as all hell though!!

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I think there have been changes in DME manufacture that the "lore" has not caught up with and old habits die hard.

That being said, I do get foam up on rare occasion so you do have to pay attention and hover around the pot.

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Go onto homebrewtalk.com and search fermcap and  you'll see that almost all of the brewers there use it to control boil overs. I probably wouldn't use it for a Mr. Beer sized batch but I have used it for 5 gallon batches. It works nicely. 

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I've never used LME other than MrB cans, and they aren't boiled. I do get a hot-break with Briess DME, but not like the one I got with a partial mash using 3 pounds of grain.

 

:)

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Before I would add the DME straight to boiling water and get boil overs all the time. Now I add after steeping and it works out just fine, no boil overs. If I need a late addition of DME I mix it in four cups of water, bring to a low simmer then add to the boil pot. 

 

Also since I bought my eight gallon brew pot I have plenty of head  space to prevent making a mess. 

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59 minutes ago, RickBeer said:

Mr. Beer cans are HME, not LME.  Their pouches are LME.  

 

You are telling me that it isn't liquid malt extract?

 

 *rolls eyes*

 

Pre-hopped, sure. But it is still LME.

 

I know you don't like me Rick, but this... I mean, wow...

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Yes, since new brewers read this forum that's exactly what I'm saying.

 

LME is Liquid Malt Extract.  DME is Dry Malt Extract.  Besides water, they are the same.  Both must reach proper temps to remove any chance of "bugs".  Both are used to boil hops to make wort.

 

HME is Hopped Malt Extract.  It has the hops already added.  You NEVER boil HME because you change the characteristics of the hops added - a  30 minute addition becomes a 60 minute addition if you boil for 30 minutes and totally changes the beer.

 

While experienced brewers know this, others play word games that end up confusing new brewers.  

 

HME is not LME.  Just like 1+1 is not the same as 1+2.  

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You can say what you want, but take the hops out of the equation, and it is liquid malt extract.

 

I see you are doing what you are (possibly) accusing me of - pIaying word games. I never said you boiled the Mr Beer cans. I even said on the first page that you don't boil them. But the stuff inside the MrB cans is LME, just pre-hopped.

 

I am so done with you. This is ridiculous.

 

:lol:

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