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Talked about it for awhile now and I finally am at a point where it make sense to try lagers.  Brewing at my house and my buddys so I deemed his house the Ale House and mine the Lager House.  Just wanted to discuss some things to make sure I fully understand what to do.  This is me talking through this, and by talking I mean typing... duh.  This is for at least a 5 gallon batch.  Not wasting my time for a 2 gallon lager batch. 

 

Step One - Make a yeast starter, never done one before but Im sure I can manage one.  Need the yeast to be at max potential,  You need Iron Man, not just Tony Starks

 

Step Two - Brew. Do everything in my power for a clear beer.  Irish Moss / whirlfloc and a proper cold break are a must.

 

Step Three - Pitch yeast between 60 and 65 for maximum yeast activity and then bring it down to the ideal temp for the strain of yeast.

 

Step Four - After about 7-10 days raise up to 62 degrees for a diactyl rest which will last 3 days.  7-10 days may vary, ideally when yeast is still active but on the tail end of fermentation.  Approx 75% to FG goal.  The DR makes the yeast eat the undesirable chemicals they produced during fermentation.

 

Step Five - Rack into Secondary. Should be around 62 degrees, then lower to 35 degrees dropping 5 degrees every day.  Could drop at a quicker pace however lagers take time and you may as well just be patient.  Dont want to shock the yeast.

 

Step Six - Lager.  Lager as close to freezing without actually freezing.  35 is cool.  Lager for 6-8 weeks for a 1.060 OG beer.  Good rule of thumb is 1 week per every 8-10 points of OG.  ie. 1.040 would be 4 weeks, 1.050 would be approx 5 weeks etc.

 

Step Seven - Bottle that Batch. Your yeast has been so well dropped out of suspension that you will need to add new yeast when bottling.  Sounds like a lot of work but if you batch prime its no big deal.  Boil your priming solution as normal and when it gets down to an acceptable temp then add about 1/3 package (11.5 gram) of a clean Ale yeast like Safale US-04 or Nottingham.  Start siphoning lager into your bottling bucket and add priming / yeast solution shortly after starting siphoning.  Bottle like normal.

 

Step Eight - Condition.  Now youve got ale yeast in action so condition at approx 63 degrees for at least 2 weeks.  Refrigerate and drink three days later when the CO2 is absorbed.

 

Takes about 10 weeks by my calculation.  Thats only 3 more weeks than an ale.  Theres a reason why Bud Light, Miller Light, Coors Light, Busch Light, and every other mainstream commercial beer sells so damn well.  They are lagers. They are crisp, clean and well carbed.  Totally worth the extra 3 weeks.  At least thats what Im going to keep telling myself. This is only realistic with a temp controller.  I have a separate digital temp controller and a fridge dedicated to lagers.  Changing the set point of the temp controller is easy, waiting is the hard part.

 

Sound good?  Anything I missed?  I like bocks and maibocks and especially kellerbier.  Totally worth my extra time

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I like lagers also,Beck's being one of my favorites, got a fridge for the process in father in-laws garage now just gotta move it inside,and I need to get me a Johnson controller, there's still a couple things I wanna do first but layering is definitely in the near future, good luck let us know how it turns out

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I have fermented with lager yeast at cool temps in  my cooler, but I have not achieved the crystal clear clean taste of the professional lagers. Maybe with the added process, you can.

I will still continue my almost-a-lager methods though because I am lazy.

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6 hours ago, Bighead beer said:

I like lagers also,Beck's being one of my favorites, got a fridge for the process in father in-laws garage now just gotta move it inside,and I need to get me a Johnson controller, there's still a couple things I wanna do first but layering is definitely in the near future, good luck let us know how it turns out

Johnson controllers are expensive and I like my digital one a lot better. It's an inkbird. I posted something awhile back about it. Cheap and easy to use and it has a cooling and heating plug. Awesome.

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Been doing a little research and it seems that as long as you use a 11.5 gram packet of dry yeast, no starter is needed.  Rehydrating is reccomended.  You should only make starters with liquid yeast to help them reproduce since liquid yeast has approx 1/3 of the active yeast cells in it compared to dry.

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Wow! That is impressive brewing!!!!

 

Some "newbie questions" if you don't mind.....

* When you listing temps - I am assuming you are talking about wort temp, not ambient. But I might be wrong. How are you measuring?

* How are you controlling temps? You said "inkbird" but my forum search skills are not ninja worthy. What is it?

* Kind of related - what are you fermenting in? Carboys...pails....etc.

 

What you are doing is awesome. I am always in awe of the level of skill and sophistication we (you) can bring to this hobby. 

 

I'm still trying to solve where to store extra ingredients!

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I'm talking wort temps taken from the temp controller probe which is taped to the side of my fermenter. However after primary fermentation ambient temp should be the same as the wort temp. I have either a freezer or a keggerator hooked to my temp controller. I also have a Johnson temp controller. 

 

I use pails but I wouldn't hesitate to use two LBK's for a 5 gallon batch.  Glass carboys are a pain to clean in my opinion.

 

Heres is my temp controller.

 

Inkbird Itc-308 Digital Temperature Controller Outlet Thermostat, 2-stage, 1000w, w/ Sensor https://www.amazon.com/dp/B011296704/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awd_tW20wbYPDV1P4

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That's awesome man. Very cool. My next "dream" step-up is the ability to control fermentation temps. Right now I'm using ice packs....

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I like that pre-built inkbird controller.  I made one based on another unit inkbird sells:  http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00OXPE8U6?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00 with a project box and an outlet.  Looks like I only saved about $8..  

 

I think that how you make a lager and the choices of secondary, temperatures, etc, are as varied as brewing itself... The only thing I am trying to do is, pick a method, follow it, and note results.  I like this link for options:  http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Fermenting_Lagers

 

I brewed three lbks worth starting on Jan. 7th.  They all spent 18 days at 55 F, D-rested for 3/4/5 days (bottled one per night) and then were bottled.  I chose to bottle, because it seemed easier for me to carb first, then cold condition.  I know this will result in more sediment in the bottle than cold lagering in a secondary, but I will make sure to pour gently!  

They spent almost 4 weeks carbing, and are now in the mini-fridge being brought down to lagering temps.  I intend to lower temps a bit at a time, and leave them there for at least 2 to 3 months.  Most of the recommendations i've seen here say to lager at fermenting temps, meaning mid 50s.  Most of what i've read, says lower, mid 30s.  

 

I grabbed a couple of bottles of each and refrigerated them to sample.  Helles Bock:  needs more time, and could certainly benefit from 'clearing up'   Dortmunder:  Same as Helles   Baltic Porter:  This actually is good to go.  I liked it as is, but, in the name of science, will make sure it sees a full lagering too!  

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Of course lagers were the first beers I ever drank.  I never knew the difference between lagers and ales until I started home brewing.  But then when I started drinking more and more ales I found that I liked them much more than lagers.  More flavor, more mouth feel and more beer.  I still drink lagers.  We have a German style brewery close to home that produces some of the best German beer this side of the "pond" and I drink the Hell out of them (and I have the beer gut to prove it).  But as far as my home brewing goes I, personally, don't have any desire to brew any lagers.  I feel I get all the results I want out of my ales.

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Want to brew ale, but drink a lager? One word for you: Kolsch! :)

 

Still need fermentation on the cool side to keep the yeast on their best behavior , but the result should be a crisp, relatively dry brew that shows off some malt complexity with a little noble hoppiness.

I've got an extract/steeped grain recipe conditioning now that seemed very nice when I sampled at bottling and I'm mashing out an all-grain recipe today (I hope).

 

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ive got an extract and an all grain of the Kolsch, will be brewin the extract first then all grain on a later date

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4 hours ago, J A said:

Want to brew ale, but drink a lager? One word for you: Kolsch! :)

 

Still need fermentation on the cool side to keep the yeast on their best behavior , but the result should be a crisp, relatively dry brew that shows off some malt complexity with a little noble hoppiness.

I've got an extract/steeped grain recipe conditioning now that seemed very nice when I sampled at bottling and I'm mashing out an all-grain recipe today (I hope).

 

Ever heard of spotted cow? That's a kolsch. Top ten beers in the states if you ask me but they only sell it in WI. I'm very fortunate to live here

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2 hours ago, Creeps McLane said:

Ever heard of spotted cow? That's a kolsch.

 

No, I'm pretty sure that's a Holstein...Heck, anybody from the Cheesehead State ought to know that! :lol:

Just finished off a St. Arnold's Fancy Lawnmower Kolsch. A little heavier and sweeter than I hope to get, but darn nice flavor. I should be able to crack an early sample of my extract version next week. Meanwhile, I just put the all-grain batch into primary in a carboy in my chest freezer, turned off with ice jugs to hold temp. I'll have to ride herd on it pretty hard for a while, but I think I can borrow my buddy's controller and leave it running and hold just right.

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47 minutes ago, J A said:

 

No, I'm pretty sure that's a Holstein...Heck, anybody from the Cheesehead State ought to know that! :lol:

Just finished off a St. Arnold's Fancy Lawnmower Kolsch. A little heavier and sweeter than I hope to get, but darn nice flavor. I should be able to crack an early sample of my extract version next week. Meanwhile, I just put the all-grain batch into primary in a carboy in my chest freezer, turned off with ice jugs to hold temp. I'll have to ride herd on it pretty hard for a while, but I think I can borrow my buddy's controller and leave it running and hold just right.

I was like "wtf is a Holstein beer..." Shows how deep my Wisconsin roots are.

 

it says it's actually a farmhouse ale on untappd which I disagree with. I've seen clone kits that call it a kolsch. I don't know what to believe anymore

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the liquor store I "used" to shop frequently until I began making my own, they're number 1 in Oklahoma for the largest variety selection. basically they've just about got em all, except for kolsch, they only have one brand made by Black Mesa Brewing Company, so when I decided to make a comparasion of kolsch's I really couldn't tell a difference. I like doing that before I start a brew so I can get an idea how mine will turn out

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1 hour ago, HoppySmile! said:

here i'm talking about kolsch on a lager post

 

I started it...:rolleyes:

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3 hours ago, Creeps McLane said:

I was like "wtf is a Holstein beer..." Shows how deep my Wisconsin roots are.

 

Just shows where our heads stay at most of the time.:lol:

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Its a Hefeford with a hangover. :)

 

Nice Lager Report

 

Cheers

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1 minute ago, Creeps McLane said:

@MRB Josh R if i didnt keg my lager, should i use an ale yeast at bottling or keep the same lager strain i fermented at?

 

Keep the same strain.

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Just now, Creeps McLane said:

And carbonate at 55? 

 

No. All carbonation takes place at 70 or so. You can carbonate at 55 if you want, but it will take a couple months.

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On June 8, 2016 at 0:03 PM, MRB Josh R said:

 

No. All carbonation takes place at 70 or so. You can carbonate at 55 if you want, but it will take a couple months.

Prime based on the highest temp reached? Its been at 34 for over 5 weeks. Did a DR @ 65 or 62. Cant remember. Bottling is happening this weekend!!! I was just going to measure 4 oz and call it good. Grasscutter Lager

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Screwy brewer says only 2 oz. yall say highest temp reached and screwy says current temp. 2oz vs 4 oz is quite a diffence. Any insight? Ive never had a bottle bomb and i dont want one

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Screwy says to use the warmest temp it has reached during fermentation.  From his site:

 

 Remember when using the calculator be sure to input the 'warmest' temperature the beer has reached prior to bottling it,

 

located on this page: http://www.thescrewybrewer.com/p/brewing-tools-formulas.html#bpc

 

For a 5 gallon batch, the least I have ever used is 100 grams (3.52 oz), which translates to 1.5 oz for a 2.13 gallon LBK.  If you use 2 oz in a 5 gallon batch, you'll have flat beer.

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20 minutes ago, RickBeer said:

Screwy says to use the warmest temp it has reached during fermentation.  From his site:

 

 Remember when using the calculator be sure to input the 'warmest' temperature the beer has reached prior to bottling it,

 

located on this page: http://www.thescrewybrewer.com/p/brewing-tools-formulas.html#bpc

 

For a 5 gallon batch, the least I have ever used is 100 grams (3.52 oz), which translates to 1.5 oz for a 2.13 gallon LBK.  If you use 2 oz in a 5 gallon batch, you'll have flat beer.

I see that, but then later he says the opposite. Whats a guy to believe?

image.png

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The yeast won't carbonate or ferment anything at 34 - they go dormant. I get calls all the time from people who refrigerated their beer after bottling and wonder why their beer is flat. Regardless of the temp you fermented, call carbonation takes place at the same temp (65-72). You can carbonate at lager temps (48-55), but it will take a couple of months. The temp you carbonate at has no bearing on flavor.

 

When kegging with a Co2 tank, the Co2 will dissolve into solution best when the beer is cold (around 38 is best). And because you aren't using yeast to carbonate, you can carbonae the beer at cold temps, which gives the fastest results (overnight if at the correct PSI).

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So.... doesn't it depend on the yeast. If you have a cold fermenting yeast surely it will carbonate faster at cool temps than a warm fermenting yeast. So lager at 55 and ale at 68 surely would bottle carbonate at about the same rate?

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On 7/21/2016 at 5:32 PM, Nickfixit said:

So.... doesn't it depend on the yeast. If you have a cold fermenting yeast surely it will carbonate faster at cool temps than a warm fermenting yeast. So lager at 55 and ale at 68 surely would bottle carbonate at about the same rate?

 

No. Carbonation rates are the same, regardless of yeast.

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On ‎7‎/‎25‎/‎2016 at 2:09 PM, MRB Josh R said:

 

No. Carbonation rates are the same, regardless of yeast.

Hmm, how can that be? It depends on the rate of metabolism, and to me that should vary with the temperature comfort range of the yeast and the maltase activity would change too based on comfort.

This talks about bakers yeast strains, and indicates variations in maltase activity based on strain so I suspect there is also variation within beer yeast strains.

  • Since the second stage of fermentation involves the conversion of maltose into ethanol and carbon dioxide, the behavior of this sugar in the fermentation process is of some significance. This is especially the case since different yeast strains have been shown to vary in their maltase activity. Experimental results have shown that a yeast strain with low maltase activity needed 21 min longer to produce two rises in a dough than did another, high-maltase yeast. Yeast strains also differ in their maltase activity in different doughs. A single yeast strain may also exhibit variable maltase activity under different test conditions. These observations led to the hypothesis that some constituent of flour contributes in some manner to the yeast's ability to ferment maltose. The rate of maltose fermentation by yeast also has been shown to be influenced by pH to a much greater degree than is true of glucose fermentation.

http://www.theartisan.net/The_Artisan_Yeast_Treatise_Section_Two.htm.   

 

Different topic but this is interesting for brewing lagers.

http://www.braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Fermenting_Lagers

 

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I'm a "need to know why" guy. But sometimes I just beat a dead horse with some of this brewing stuff. There's been a few things that don't make any sense to me at all yet they work despite my reasoning. Frustrating but true. I won't name them but a few @MRB Josh R had exhausted himself explaining to me. Sorry

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9 hours ago, Creeps McLane said:

I'm a "need to know why" guy. But sometimes I just beat a dead horse with some of this brewing stuff. There's been a few things that don't make any sense to me at all yet they work despite my reasoning. Frustrating but true. I won't name them but a few @MRB Josh R had exhausted himself explaining to me. Sorry

Me too. I do like to know "why" - but also I like to know "how".  I like the article on the braukaiser link above. That might help your lager questions.

The main things that hit me on that article are

- all the techniques give low diacetyl if you leave them long enough - even if no accelerated diacetyl rest.

- you want the yeast to be healthy and ferment fast so you don't get fusels and other byproducts not cleanable by diacetyl rest.

- you want LOTS of oxygenation to guarantee healthy fermentation

- they recommend removing hops before fermenting ( unlike Boston Lager method - ha ha) but this maybe gives different taste to leaving them in. (I did not try this)

 

In my attempts, I have  tried to overpitch the yeast so that it does not have to go into multiplication phase where the off taste products are generated. I pitch the yeast at warmer temps and then cool the LBK to 50s (takes about 24 hours) by which time I am getting a good ferment start. I  do leave it 4 weeks before bottling, the last week at mid 60's. But since most of my lager attempts have been  in trying to clone Boston Lager I leave the hops in and add more.

I am waiting to try the latest attempt (#7)  - only one has been close as yet, as I tried a number (too many) of different things that made beer that was drinkable but not like SA.

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13 hours ago, Nickfixit said:

Different topic but this is interesting for brewing lagers.

http://www.braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Fermenting_Lagers

 

 

Great article. Note the section on bottle-conditioning lagers:

"When you bottle condition before cold conditioning, you wait until the beer has completed fermentation and prime the beer with corn sugar or DME. Since the yeast is still fairly healthy and active there shouldn't be any problems in getting the beer carbonated. Let the beer carbonate at ROOM TEMPERATURE for a week. Give it a taste to ensure complete carbonation before moving it to cold storage 32 - 42 *F (0 - 5 *C) to cold condition it."

 

Regardless of the beer you're making, or the yeast you're using, you will always carbonate at room temps (unless kegging). You can carbonate cooler, but it will take weeks or even months.

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Impatiently I took a glass of my Boston lager clone attempt #7 after 2 weeks in bottle (65 deg). Carbonation was good but being early, the flavors had not yet melded well.  There is the good hop backbone (with a little aroma) and the hops are quite spicy now, There is malt sweetness too, but at this stage, both are kinda separate sensations and need to mellow out. It also needs to clarify more. I will leave it a month and try it again. Probably it won't be ready still but  I am interested in how the tastes change. I did put some Vienna malt steeped in it as well as a little Cara 60, not sure I needed all that - it may be too sweet, But will see :-).

Boston lager 7 at 2 weeks 20160727_171539.jpg

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On ‎7‎/‎27‎/‎2016 at 8:38 PM, Nickfixit said:

Impatiently I took a glass of my Boston lager clone attempt #7 after 2 weeks in bottle (65 deg). Carbonation was good but being early, the flavors had not yet melded well.  There is the good hop backbone (with a little aroma) and the hops are quite spicy now, There is malt sweetness too, but at this stage, both are kinda separate sensations and need to mellow out. It also needs to clarify more. I will leave it a month and try it again. Probably it won't be ready still but  I am interested in how the tastes change. I did put some Vienna malt steeped in it as well as a little Cara 60, not sure I needed all that - it may be too sweet, But will see :-).

Boston lager 7 at 2 weeks 20160727_171539.jpg

OK well I bought a 6 pack of Boston Lager to do a taste test.

I can't tell the difference using the 2nd half of a 750 ml.. And I think the color is almost right, maybe a little redder?  - obviously it needs to mature and clear, but for the limited ageing I am very happy..

BostonLager 7 20160728_145830.jpg

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5 hours ago, Nickfixit said:

OK well I bought a 6 pack of Boston Lager to do a taste test.

I can't tell the difference using the 2nd half of a 750 ml.. And I think the color is almost right, maybe a little redder?  - obviously it needs to mature and clear, but for the limited ageing I am very happy..

 

I liked it so much I made a special label.

Bos Lager label 20160729_140713.jpg

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My fermenting room has been averaging between 57-59 degrees.  Would that be low enough to try my hand at a lager or is that still too high?  Thanks in advance. :)

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Whether you make an ale or a lager, fermentation raises the temperature.  So what's important, whether an ale or a lager, is the temp of the wort.  S-23, a lager yeast, lists these temps: Fermentation temperature: 9-22°C (48.2-71.6°F) ideally 12-15°C (53.6-59°F).  With an air temp of 59, your wort would likely be mid 60s.  That is in the range, although above the ideal range.  You want to avoid the production of diacetyl, which is a buttery/butterscotch flavor.  

 

I would suggest that you either try a cooler with frozen water bottles in that environment, or be prepared for some off-flavors.

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I get my wort temp by taping an aquarium thermometer onto the LBK side and making sure there is insulation over it so it picks up LBK not air temperature.

The digital thermometers are about $10.

Some folks make a hole in the LBK lid and put a digital cooking thermometer through it into the wort but I like to see the temp without opening the cooler.

I get lager temps in the cooler with ice packs and feed the thermometer sensor in through the drain hole (then tape it up).

Some folks use frozen partly filled soda bottles (water fill) instead.

You need more ice packs to get it down to temp faster, and more frequent changeout when actively fermenting, but after it settles down not so much. My icepack changeout varies between 1 and 3 times a day.

I will say that when I made Cooper's Pilsner (6 gal)  I have only one cooler so I had 2 LBKs on the floor and one in the cooler, but with air temp ~ 60 deg I did not get diacetyl that I could taste in any. I used the Cooper's yeast (1/3 the pack) + some W34/70 as well (1/2 a pack).

The other thing is that you are better OVER pitching the yeast (more than needed) to get clean fermentation for lagers.  That way it does not have to do as much initial cell reproduction to get to where it is fermenting hard. I believe that is the phase it makes more of the off flavors.

ZFL 20161105_162903.png

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The latest Boston Lager I had was on tap and it was more bitter and more spicy hop aroma/flavor and more malty than the bottled ones I had. It was really nice.

So next attempt on Boston Lager I will up the hop and malty flavor a bit. But that won't likely be until well into next year based on my list.

Sam Adams claim they just use Pale 2 row and Cara 60. So I will probably need quite a bit more of the Cara 60.

 

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11 hours ago, Nickfixit said:

The latest Boston Lager I had was on tap and it was more bitter and more spicy hop aroma/flavor and more malty than the bottled ones I had. It was really nice.

So next attempt on Boston Lager I will up the hop and malty flavor a bit. But that won't likely be until well into next year based on my list.

Sam Adams claim they just use Pale 2 row and Cara 60. So I will probably need quite a bit more of the Cara 60.

 

Probably won't need more than an lb in a 5 gal batch

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27 minutes ago, Jim Johnson said:

Probably won't need more than an lb in a 5 gal batch

Funny, I had figured on 1/2 lb in the LBK batch , maybe I am learning a few things from you experienced grain guys?

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On ‎12‎/‎13‎/‎2016 at 8:47 PM, Nickfixit said:

Funny, I had figured on 1/2 lb in the LBK batch , maybe I am learning a few things from you experienced grain guys?

show the recipe...slightly confused here, you meant Crystal/Carmel 60L not Cara right? if you're going to do a 2.5 gal then .5 would be fine.

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Anyone ever hear of Bruhology?  Fast Lagering Style in this months issue of BYO it talks about how to fast lager than the normal method, and supposedly the beer turns out great!! supposedly u begin fermenting at a set temp, then after attenuation is achieved u begin to raise the temp, then raise it again after a few days, and it goes and goes.

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13 hours ago, Jim Johnson said:

show the recipe...slightly confused here, you meant Crystal/Carmel 60L not Cara right? if you're going to do a 2.5 gal then .5 would be fine.

 

Yes, Caramel.  Now when they say "pale malt blend", I guess they might include other than the straight pale 2 row used for beer base malt. to up the malty flavor too. That would not be the same maltiness you get from Caramel 60 I think.

 

I am still investigating some, but my taste so far is definitely close.

QBrew works to give below specs from this recipe.

Does this look reasonable?

 

**********************************

From SA site:

HOPS VARIETIES

Hallertau Mittelfreuh and Tettang Tettnager Noble Hops

MALT VARIETIES

Samuel Adams two-row pale malt blend and Caramel 60

COLOR

A deep amber to golden, 11 SRM

ALC. By Vol/WT

5.0%ABV-3.8%ABW

IBUs

30

CALORIES

175

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8 hours ago, Nickfixit said:

 

Now when they say "pale malt blend", I guess they might include other than the straight pale 2 row used for beer base malt. to up the malty flavor too. That would not be the same maltiness you get from Caramel 60 I think.

 

I am still investigating some, but my taste so far is definitely close.

QBrew works to give below specs from this recipe.

Does this look reasonable?

 

 

 

**********************************

From SA site:

HOPS VARIETIES

Hallertau Mittelfreuh and Tettang Tettnager Noble Hops

MALT VARIETIES

Samuel Adams two-row pale malt blend and Caramel 60

COLOR

A deep amber to golden, 11 SRM

ALC. By Vol/WT

5.0%ABV-3.8%ABW

IBUs

30

CALORIES

175

Yes, i.e. 2 row and Maris Otter. I worked it up in BeerSmith as a 2 gal American amber ale you can hit the numbers pretty close.(I don't monitor calories, so unknown) used .5lb 60L  

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5 minutes ago, Jim Johnson said:

Yes, i.e. 2 row and Maris Otter. I worked it up in BeerSmith as a 2 gal American amber ale you can hit the numbers pretty close.(I don't monitor calories, so unknown) used .5lb 60L  

What proportion of Maris Otter/2 row do you suggest? I have not used Maris Otter (that I know of)

 

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I've tried to take a screenshot to send you wit win 10 ain't cooperating. Disclaimer: I don't like SA lager,  so all I did was meet the requirements with equal proportions 1lb 9.6 oz  of each  hallertau to bitter(60 min) .5 oz  5 grams each hallertau/tettnang @ 20 min (flavor) same again @ 5 min (aroma). used Safe Lager 34/70 yeast, use 05 if you want an ale. My IBUs are 30.3, ABV 5.1. Don't know if it'll taste like a SA

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9 hours ago, Jim Johnson said:

I've tried to take a screenshot to send you wit win 10 ain't cooperating. Disclaimer: I don't like SA lager,  so all I did was meet the requirements with equal proportions 1lb 9.6 oz  of each  hallertau to bitter(60 min) .5 oz  5 grams each hallertau/tettnang @ 20 min (flavor) same again @ 5 min (aroma). used Safe Lager 34/70 yeast, use 05 if you want an ale. My IBUs are 30.3, ABV 5.1. Don't know if it'll taste like a SA

Good enough thanks. I used the 34./70 last time and was pleased with it. This is what I had in it. The color and taste was pretty close but as I said I want a bit more malty and a bit more bitter.

Mr B pilsner HME, pilsen 12 oz DME,  4 heaped desserspoons Malto dextrin, 4 oz Vienna malt grain , 2 oz Caramel 60 - 35 min  at 165 deg. 0.5 oz Hallertauer Mittelfrau  10 min  boil ,  1 oz  Hallertauer Mittelfrau 3 wk dh after krausen. Cool ferment  34/70 yeast.  Total 4 week ferment 
Used Regular Tap Water.

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