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Cuban IPA

Adding Hops after boil- Abbey Double Recipe

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I have a question to ask about adding the hops after flameout in this recipe....adding US Saaz hops after boil. Is this for flavor, aroma or bitterness? 

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I am familiar with the chart but understand it as during boil. My question is after boil (flame out). Would this chart be used the same for flame out? 

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Anything not in the boil can only be aroma. All Mr. Beer additions are aroma.

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12 hours ago, RickBeer said:

Anything not in the boil can only be aroma. All Mr. Beer additions are aroma.

Even in the Chewbeerca recipe?

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30 minutes ago, AnthonyC said:

Even in the Chewbeerca recipe?

 

Yes, absolutely.  

 

Now, look at what I've said.  ANYTHING NOT IN THE BOIL CAN ONLY BE AROMA.

 

In reading the Chewbeerca recipe, it says to boil Warrior hops for 20 minutes, Centennial hops for 10 minutes, and the add Centennial hops again at the end.

 

So that means that the first to additions are IN THE BOIL.

 

 

Now look at the chart.  A 20 minute boil gives you NO aroma, a 100% flavor impact, and just over 20% bitterness impact.  So you would call that a "flavor addition".  

 

The 10 minute boil gives you an 80% aroma impact, a 20% flavor impact, and a 15% bitterness impact.  You'd call that an "aroma addition".

 

So, if you don't boil hops, you're not impacting anything but aroma.  If you boil hops, you can impact aroma, flavor, and bitterness.

 

Of course your sense of SMELL impacts your sense of TASTE.  

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Just now, RickBeer said:

 

Yes, absolutely.  

 

Now, look at what I've said.  ANYTHING NOT IN THE BOIL CAN ONLY BE AROMA.

 

In reading the Chewbeerca recipe, it says to boil Warrior hops for 20 minutes, Centennial hops for 10 minutes, and the add Centennial hops again at the end.

 

So that means that the first to additions are IN THE BOIL.

 

 

Now look at the chart.  A 20 minute boil gives you NO aroma, a 100% flavor impact, and just over 20% bitterness impact.  So you would call that a "flavor addition".  

 

The 10 minute boil gives you an 80% aroma impact, a 20% flavor impact, and a 15% bitterness impact.  

 

So, if you don't boil hops, you're not impacting anything but aroma.  If you boil hops, you can impact aroma, flavor, and bitterness.

 

Of course your sense of SMELL impacts your sense of TASTE.  

Still trying to make heads or tails outta this hop stuff.  Getting there... baby steps!  Thanks, Rick.

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Before doing a recipe like Cheebeerca, I'd recommend that people learn how to do a dry hop or flameout addition AND EXPERIENCE THE RESULT.  In other words, brew something like Oktoberfest.  Then brew Oktoberfest Deluxe.  Then brew an Oktoberfest recipe that adds hops.  Then COMPARE ALL THREE.  

 

Once you've done that, now try a similar thing where you brew the Diablo IPA, then maybe it with a dry hop or flameout addition, then the Chewbeerca recipe.  Then COMPARE ALL THREE.  

 

I would also point out that when adding multiple hops, it's helpful to understand both what they are doing and what they are like.  Some hops some people hate.  Some add a pine aroma (reminds me of Pine Sol).  Some add grapefruit.  Some add ...  All of which you can read from different sources and say things like "well, I like Oktoberfest, will I like it with the addition of a strong pine aroma?"  

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21 hours ago, RickBeer said:

Anything not in the boil can only be aroma. All Mr. Beer additions are aroma.

 

So how much aroma will I be getting at flame out since the chart is only for boil? Also what is a good temp for a hop boil ( don't want to over boil or under boil) ?

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14 minutes ago, Cuban IPA said:

 

So how much aroma will I be getting at flame out since the chart is only for boil? 

 

The short answer to that question is: As much as you put in...

There are ways to calculate the bitterness (IBUs). Flavor and especially aroma aren't exactly quantifiable. If you put a lot hops in at flameout or during the last week or so of fermentation (dry hopping) it'll have a strong aroma from those hops. If you put in a little, it'll be more subtle.

 

Maybe that chart is confusing because it addresses percentages and times rather than amounts. The chart's only good for determining how much of a given amount of hops is going to end up as bitterness, flavor or aroma. If you don't boil, the bitterness doesn't get leached out but the oils that make aroma do. If you boil hops for a short time, some of the bitterness comes out, and more of the oils that make the flavor component stay in the beer. If you boil a long time, the bitterness comes out in the beer and the flavor component evaporates, for lack of a better explanation. It's the amount of hops you use at a certain time in the boil is that determines how strong the bitterness, flavor and aroma are.

 

Hopping is complex and interesting and you could work a lifetime at exploring the different combinations and subtle interactions. For a start, find out a little about the brewing process, look at recipes (there are thousands on the internet) that don't use HMEs and look at what hops are where. Also, find information about particular craft beers - their IBUs and flavor profile - and identify what sort of hops they're using (again, tons of info on the web). Drink those beers and you can smell and taste the end result of what they're putting in. It may give you a little better understanding of what's involved. And it's a perfect excuse to drink craft beers. Research!! ;)

 

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I'm going to go out on a limb here because I haven't brewed any of these new Mr. Beer recipes.

But aren't you NOT suppose to boil the Mr. Beer HMEs? That was always the numero uno rule when I was making Mr. Beer beer.

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14 hours ago, J A said:

 

The short answer to that question is: As much as you put in...

There are ways to calculate the bitterness (IBUs). Flavor and especially aroma aren't exactly quantifiable. If you put a lot hops in at flameout or during the last week or so of fermentation (dry hopping) it'll have a strong aroma from those hops. If you put in a little, it'll be more subtle.

 

Maybe that chart is confusing because it addresses percentages and times rather than amounts. The chart's only good for determining how much of a given amount of hops is going to end up as bitterness, flavor or aroma. If you don't boil, the bitterness doesn't get leached out but the oils that make aroma do. If you boil hops for a short time, some of the bitterness comes out, and more of the oils that make the flavor component stay in the beer. If you boil a long time, the bitterness comes out in the beer and the flavor component evaporates, for lack of a better explanation. It's the amount of hops you use at a certain time in the boil is that determines how strong the bitterness, flavor and aroma are.

 

Hopping is complex and interesting and you could work a lifetime at exploring the different combinations and subtle interactions. For a start, find out a little about the brewing process, look at recipes (there are thousands on the internet) that don't use HMEs and look at what hops are where. Also, find information about particular craft beers - their IBUs and flavor profile - and identify what sort of hops they're using (again, tons of info on the web). Drink those beers and you can smell and taste the end result of what they're putting in. It may give you a little better understanding of what's involved. And it's a perfect excuse to drink craft beers. Research!! ;)

 

 

Well said!

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39 minutes ago, Chuck N ™ said:

I'm going to go out on a limb here because I haven't brewed any of these new Mr. Beer recipes.

But aren't you NOT suppose to boil the Mr. Beer HMEs? That was always the numero uno rule when I was making Mr. Beer beer.

 

The boil is of water and LME, then hops, then add in the HME at flameout.

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31 minutes ago, Chuck N ™ said:

I'm going to go out on a limb here because I haven't brewed any of these new Mr. Beer recipes.

But aren't you NOT suppose to boil the Mr. Beer HMEs? That was always the numero uno rule when I was making Mr. Beer beer.

 

Yep...hopped malt extract shouldn't be boiled. There'd have to be an additional malt like LME or DME to boil the hops in. There's nothing in the Mr Beer recipe bank that involves a 60 minute hop addition (or, as far as I can see, anything other than just a few minutes or at flameout). All the bittering hops are in the HME. Adding a little flavor and aroma at the end is all that's needed.

 

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On ‎3‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 9:04 AM, RickBeer said:

 

The boil is of water and LME, then hops, then add in the HME at flameout.

Ahhh.  I stand educated.

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