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rniles

My 2009, a poss NB 1554 clone?

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Please critique, I'm trying to come up with a New Belgium 1554 clone, AG. Did a lot of research with some notes from people who talked with New Belgium, and with a bit of their experiments and with how they felt their results compared.

Please take a look and see what you think:

Recipe: MF 2009
Brewer: Robert Niles
Asst Brewer:
Style: Belgian Specialty Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 2.13 gal
Boil Size: 2.44 gal
Estimated OG: 1.057 SG
Estimated Color: 23.3 SRM
Estimated IBU: 19.3 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
2.98 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) Bel (3.0 SRM) Grain 67.57 %
1.07 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 24.13 %
0.21 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 4.83 %
0.13 lb Black (Crisp) (680.0 SRM) Grain 2.90 %
0.03 lb Chocolate Malt (450.0 SRM) Grain 0.58 %
0.17 oz Magnum [14.00 %] (60 min) Hops 19.3 IBU
0.11 tsp Grains of Paradise (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
0.43 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Octoberfest Lager Blend (Wyeast LAbs #2633Yeast-Lager


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 4.41 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 5.52 qt of water at 165.9 F 154.0 F

I don't have the sparge info in yet ...any suggestions quite welcome!

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I can not comment as to its clone worthiness.
However, it looks like a sound recipe.
A couple of things...

First you should really adapt to the metric system! Especially at our batch size. How do you plan on measuring out that 0.03 lb Chocolate Malt? 13-14 grams is much more measurable.

I can not remember your set up, are you using a Tun or is this a Brew in Bag variant? Either way calculating your recipe at 75% efficiency may leave you lacking in OG.

Batch size. You are not leaving yourself much room for loss to cold break. You can easily do a 2.4 gallon batch in the Mr Beer Fermenter and account for trub loss.
Looks like you are using BeerSmith. Have you taken the time to set up your equipment? Ie: Evaporation rate and loss to Break Material...
I do not see you winding up with 2.13 gallons after boiling 2.44 gal for an hour and leaving the gunk in the kettle.

Last question would be if you have the ability to do a proper Lager?

Nice looking recipe, tho!
I might revisit it come the time when the Lager itch strikes me.

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Thanks Drock ...haven't done the mashing and the steeping yet. Was concentrating on the recipe but you're right, I do need to deal with that - just putting it off til tomorrow.

Ah ...I should have mentioned the Lager Yeast. According to New Belgium, they use a Lager yeast at Ale temperatures. Their hint was to use a Lager yeast that has low sulfur production, so I picked the Wyeast #2633 - it seemed to fit the bill.

I will be using a proper mash tun this time.

Should probably mention the Grains of Paradise ..a spice with mostly a pepper flavour with some cardamom and coriander hints to it. NB isn't talking about it but there's a lot of talk that this is what they are using instead of a finishing hop (NB does say they don't use a finishing hop with the 1554).

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D Rock wrote:


First you should really adapt to the metric system! Especially at our batch size. How do you plan on measuring out that 0.03 lb Chocolate Malt? 13-14 grams is much more measurable.

Good idea.

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I'm working on an AG version of 1554 as well. I'm going to use the Saflager S-33 instead because I here it does well at ale temps and because if it doesn't work, I won't have wasted an $8 pack of yeast.

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D Rock wrote:


I can not remember your set up, are you using a Tun or is this a Brew in Bag variant? Either way calculating your recipe at 75% efficiency may leave you lacking in OG.

Changed the 75% to 65%.


Batch size. You are not leaving yourself much room for loss to cold break. You can easily do a 2.4 gallon batch in the Mr Beer Fermenter and account for trub loss.
Looks like you are using BeerSmith. Have you taken the time to set up your equipment? Ie: Evaporation rate and loss to Break Material...
I do not see you winding up with 2.13 gallons after boiling 2.44 gal for an hour and leaving the gunk in the kettle.

OK, I have:

Evap rate: 9%
Lost to Boil Trub and Chiller: 0 gal
Top up water: 0 gal
Final volume: 2.13
Boil time: 60 mins
Cool loss pct: 4%

It's calculating the final volume of 2.13 with a boil volume of
2.44 gal

I agree, boiling 2.44 gal of water for 60 minutes doesn't seem like it would leave 2.13 gal in the pot

Suggestions?

I do remember I had to add water after the boil when doing the AG last time. Which was fine by me as it helped cool the water down faster.

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Dr. Dink wrote:

I'm working on an AG version of 1554 as well. I'm going to use the Saflager S-33 instead because I here it does well at ale temps and because if it doesn't work, I won't have wasted an $8 pack of yeast.

Would be very interested in seeing your grain bill! I don't see anything wrong with the S-33 ...I didn't think of a dry yeast.

I'll be very interested in hearing how it turns out.

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Well this is where I am starting. Still tweaking it a bit:

1260 gm Belgian Pale
210 gm Munich Malt
240 gm German Vienna
210 gm Belgian Aromatic
130 gm Belgian Special B
40 gm Belgian Black Roast
3 gm Magnum (Whole, 14.50 %AA) boiled 60 min.
3 gm Magnum (Whole, 14.50 %AA) boiled 30 min.
1 Pkg Saflager S-33 Dry Lager Yeast

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rniles wrote:

D Rock wrote:


I can not remember your set up, are you using a Tun or is this a Brew in Bag variant? Either way calculating your recipe at 75% efficiency may leave you lacking in OG.

Changed the 75% to 65%.


Batch size. You are not leaving yourself much room for loss to cold break. You can easily do a 2.4 gallon batch in the Mr Beer Fermenter and account for trub loss.
Looks like you are using BeerSmith. Have you taken the time to set up your equipment? Ie: Evaporation rate and loss to Break Material...
I do not see you winding up with 2.13 gallons after boiling 2.44 gal for an hour and leaving the gunk in the kettle.

OK, I have:

Evap rate: 9%
Lost to Boil Trub and Chiller: 0 gal
Top up water: 0 gal
Final volume: 2.13
Boil time: 60 mins
Cool loss pct: 4%

It's calculating the final volume of 2.13 with a boil volume of
2.44 gal

I agree, boiling 2.44 gal of water for 60 minutes doesn't seem like it would leave 2.13 gal in the pot

Suggestions?

I do remember I had to add water after the boil when doing the AG last time. Which was fine by me as it helped cool the water down faster.

Change your Lost to Boil Trub and Chiller: 0 gal to .5 gallons. This way you can leave behind break and hop material in the kettle. I am assuming that you have a kettle large enough to do this. 16 qt is the minimum for an AG full wort boil on a Mr Beer.

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Oh and 9% is what I use for evaporation rate. Yours could be up to 15+/-%. Not trying to throw too much out there at you, but these are the things that need to be taken into consideration when doing an AG.

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DRock, I haven't gone AG yet, but plan to. When you boil in a 16qt. kettle are you doing this stovetop, or do you have some other propane/turkey-fryer set-up?

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Dr. Dink wrote:

Well this is where I am starting. Still tweaking it a bit:

1260 gm Belgian Pale
210 gm Munich Malt
240 gm German Vienna
210 gm Belgian Aromatic
130 gm Belgian Special B
40 gm Belgian Black Roast
3 gm Magnum (Whole, 14.50 %AA) boiled 60 min.
3 gm Magnum (Whole, 14.50 %AA) boiled 30 min.
1 Pkg Saflager S-33 Dry Lager Yeast

Do you have that worked up in BeerSmith? Send me the BSM if you do, I think you have my addy..

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OK, updated the recipe a bit to fit with the changes Drock suggest for my equipment. Also up the chocolate to 1.95% as I am going to use a de-bittered black. Also increased the hops by a just a bit to even out the maltiness a bit.


Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 2.25 gal
Boil Size: 3.13 gal
Estimated OG: 1.054 SG
Estimated Color: 24.8 SRM
Estimated IBU: 21.9 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
3.31 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) Bel (3.0 SRM) Grain 64.52 %
1.28 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 24.95 %
0.34 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 6.63 %
0.10 lb Black (Crisp) (680.0 SRM) Grain 1.95 %
0.10 lb Chocolate Malt (450.0 SRM) Grain 1.95 %
0.20 oz Magnum [14.00 %] (60 min) Hops 21.9 IBU
0.13 tsp Grains of Paradise (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
0.50 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
1 pkg Wyeast 2633 Oktoberfest Lager Blend

Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 5.13 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 6.42 qt of water at 165.9 F 154.0 F

Does this still look ok? I should be able to brew this on Friday.

Now I'm curious. If I print a brew sheet, it has the sparge steps but not when I print a recipe. How can that be shown in the recipe as well?

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Recipe looks sound. I guess that my only issue would be the precentage of CaraPils. I do not like to use more than 4%. However, I have not had a 1554 for quite some time, so I can not speak to its clone worthiness.

Now I'm curious. If I print a brew sheet, it has the sparge steps but not when I print a recipe. How can that be shown in the recipe as well?


Looks like you are cutting and pasting the "Text" recipe view...
Go to your BeerSmith folder, go into the Templates folder, open up recipetext.txt with NotePad. Under: "Mash Schedule: $MASH_NAME
$MASH_STEPS", add:
Code:
Sparge Volume/Temperature: $SPARGE_VOLUME @ $SPARGE_TEMP
$SPARGE_STEPS

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Thanks for the tip DRock!

OK, here is the final recipe (maybe):


BeerSmith Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: MF 2009 2.4 gallons
Brewer: Robert Niles
Asst Brewer:
Style: Belgian Specialty Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 9.09 L
Boil Size: 13.36 L
Estimated OG: 1.057 SG
Estimated Color: 25.7 SRM
Estimated IBU: 19.7 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
1.76 kg Pale Malt (2 Row) Bel (3.0 SRM) Grain 67.57 %
0.63 kg Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 24.13 %
0.13 kg Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 4.83 %
0.08 kg Black (Crisp) (680.0 SRM) Grain 2.90 %
0.02 kg Chocolate Malt (450.0 SRM) Grain 0.58 %
5.39 gm Magnum [14.00 %] (60 min) Hops 19.7 IBU
0.12 tsp Grains of Paradise (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
0.5 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 min) Misc


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 2.60 kg
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 6.79 L of water at 165.9 F 154.0 F


Sparge Volume/Temperature: 9.18 L @ 168.0 F
Batch Sparge Round 1: Sparge with 2.50 L of 168.0 F water
Batch Sparge Round 2: Sparge with 6.68 L of 168.0 F water

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So I'm new to Beersmith, am I reading this right?

60 min Mash In Add 6.79 L of water at 165.9 F 154.0 F

Does that mean a 60 minute mash and your strike water temp is 165.9F, shooting for a 154F mash temp?

Ron

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Ron wrote:

60 min Mash In Add 6.79 L of water at 165.9 F 154.0 F

Does that mean a 60 minute mash and your strike water temp is 165.9F, shooting for a 154F mash temp?

Yep.

rniles, the recipe is looking good! I have my doubts about the IBUs and their replacement with the Grains of Paradise. Looking forward to hearing how it comes out. If the GOP really works out, I may brew this up!

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D Rock wrote:


rniles, the recipe is looking good! I have my doubts about the IBUs and their replacement with the Grains of Paradise. Looking forward to hearing how it comes out. If the GOP really works out, I may brew this up!

Are you thinking the IBU's should be higher or lower?

From drinking, it didn't seem to be a very bitter beer ...maybe a hint of it but finished malty. In fact my brother-in-law didn't like it, too malty for him. T'was perfect for me (for me New Belgium's Abbey is too malty but the 1554 was great).

I'm afraid my recipe's IBU is too high.

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rniles wrote:

D Rock wrote:


rniles, the recipe is looking good! I have my doubts about the IBUs and their replacement with the Grains of Paradise. Looking forward to hearing how it comes out. If the GOP really works out, I may brew this up!

Are you thinking the IBU's should be higher or lower?

From drinking, it didn't seem to be a very bitter beer ...maybe a hint of it but finished malty. In fact my brother-in-law didn't like it, too malty for him. T'was perfect for me (for me New Belgium's Abbey is too malty but the 1554 was great).

I'm afraid my recipe's IBU is too high.

Well, like I said earlier, I have not had one of these in quite some time and my taste memory is not telling me where it should be. Did a quick search of other Clones out there without really looking at the recipes, just the BU:GU. Found 0.503, 0.407, 0.570. You are at 0.345. Seems to malty to me. But, I thought that you had mentioned in an earlier post that the Grains of Paradise was to make up for the finishing hops. So, I figured that it should be malty, with some of the malt being offset be a spice ala a Gruit.
Maybe I need to go pick up a 1554...

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I think the GOP is just for some flavors/aromas ... I don't know if there's much for bittering ...a NB says it finishes with a spice instead of finishing with hops ...so I'm guessing it's a flavor/aroma.

Now they do not mention the spice ..but some are thinking it's GOP.

I'm brewing Tues ..so go get the 1554 :smile: and help me figure the IBUs ..I would send you one but I'm not quite sure it's legal :)

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rniles wrote:

I'm brewing Tues ..so go get the 1554 :smile: and help me figure the IBUs ..I would send you one but I'm not quite sure it's legal :)

Short of GABF, its been a long while since I have had a commercial beer, I will pick up a mixed sixer tonight with 1554 and some others (suggestions anyone?) and get a feel of where I think this recipe needs to go, if anywhere...

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So, I had a 1554 sort of recently. I thought it was pretty well balanced. Maybe on the malty side, but much closer to .5 than your recipe.

It seems like you need something in the flavoring hops range. You say you are using the g.o.p. for finishing hops, but how about something in the 25 minute range? Maybe something a bit spicy? Hallertauer? Saaz?

Now I'm going to have to try another. It is 5:30 in the morning... so I'll have to wait a couple of hours.

Good luck. I'm REALLY interested in knowing how this turns out, rniles.

:chug:

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I do think this recipe is going to be a toughy. There's no clone that I can find where someone said theirs was right on the money. So it is a huge experiment. Bringing it up to 4.5 to 4.9 wouldn't be a problem. I ordered enough hops. :) ...maybe just maybe I'll add more hops into the flavoring range as esheppy suggested. But will wait to hear back from DRock and see what he thinks.

I do like NB's Tripple if you haven't tried that DRock.

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D Rock wrote:


I can not remember your set up, are you using a Tun or is this a Brew in Bag variant? Either way calculating your recipe at 75% efficiency may leave you lacking in OG.

Well Mr. DRock, you'll be happy. I just finished making my mash tun. It looked scary but was easy and total cost was about $41.00 (rounding)

5 Gal Igloo: $20.00
Ball valve: $10.83
Faucet connector (for the steel strainer): $5.84
Clamp: $1.57
Liquid tight fit connector: $1.94

The Igloo was bought at Wally World, the rest bought at Lowes.

Filled with water for leak checks ..and works pretty good.

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rniles wrote:

D Rock wrote:


I can not remember your set up, are you using a Tun or is this a Brew in Bag variant? Either way calculating your recipe at 75% efficiency may leave you lacking in OG.

Well Mr. DRock, you'll be happy. I just finished making my mash tun. It looked scary but was easy and total cost was about $41.00 (rounding)

5 Gal Igloo: $20.00
Ball valve: $10.83
Faucet connector (for the steel strainer): $5.84
Clamp: $1.57
Liquid tight fit connector: $1.94

The Igloo was bought at Wally World, the rest bought at Lowes.

Filled with water for leak checks ..and works pretty good.

Congrats. That is pretty exciting. Every time I'm in Walmart I walk by those 5 gallon coolers and debate over whether to get one to make a mash tun of my own.

You'll have to post a picture sometime.

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I'll post some pics soon.

Well I have a small hiccup and not sure what I should do. I ordered Wyeast 2633 from Midwest - and instead, they sent me Wyeast 2308. I picked the 2633 for the low sulfur production ...no stats on the sulfur production of the 2308 except for one person saying it smelt like someone was getting their hair colored.

I need a Lager yeast to be fermented at Ale temps. Anyone have any suggestions. My local might have one of the yeasts that are more common.

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I'm sorry if you covered this earlier in the thread ... but:

What does brewing an lager yeast at ale temperatures do for you?

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esheppy wrote:

I'm sorry if you covered this earlier in the thread ... but:

What does brewing an lager yeast at ale temperatures do for you?

Ah ...I probably didn't mention it. It is now New Belgium ferments their 1554; with a lager yeast at ale temps.

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rniles wrote:

esheppy wrote:

I'm sorry if you covered this earlier in the thread ... but:

What does brewing an lager yeast at ale temperatures do for you?

Ah ...I probably didn't mentioned. It is now New Belgium ferments their 1554; with a lager yeast at ale temps.

Well... I actually got that from the thread ... I guess I'm curious as to what that adds to the beer. Obviously they there is something they like about how a lager yeast works at higher temps ... I'm just curious as to what that special something is.

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Actually I have no clue. ...sorry for making you type all that just for my completely less and informative response.

Hopefully someone else might know why sometimes people use lager yeast at ale temperatures.

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I'm going to use the SafLager S-23. It's a dry yeast, but should work at ale temps and be readily available.

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esheppy wrote:

Well... I actually got that from the thread ... I guess I'm curious as to what that adds to the beer. Obviously they there is something they like about how a lager yeast works at higher temps ... I'm just curious as to what that special something is.

It simply cause the lager yeasties to impart a different flavor on the beer than they would if fermented at lager temperatures. From a style guideline perspective, fermenting a lager yeast at ale fermentation temperatures produces the style known as "Steam Bee." The best-known commercial example of this is Anchor Steam Beer.

The lager yeast used for these purposes is a strain which is known to thrive toward the lower end of ale fermentation temps. These beers tend to be a bit on the effervescent side of carbonation and due to the higher fermentation temps, the yeast tends to impart fruity esters which give the final product a definite fruity nose. These brews also generally lean toward the malty side while still having a notable hop presence in bitterness but not in hop aroma/nose.

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So, if I understand JimBob correctly, the Steam Beer is produced with a special strain of yeast that works well at those temperatures. I would guess that it has been engineered a bit to give just the right fruity esters.

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_beer, Steam Beer is "highly effervescent" ... which I do not think describes 1554 (correct me if I'm wrong). Interesting, they say brewing with lager yeast at ales temps was done out of necessity and that "It was considered a cheap and low-quality beer". (also does not describe 1554)

Anyway, I sort of have a feeling that New Belgium likely has its own yeast that it has engineered over the years, and not just any lager yeast would work well.

Some quick googling, I found a couple of guys who used White Labs WLP810 San Francisco Lager Yeast (like Dr. Dink told us)

I think a great experiment would be to do two batches. Both exactly the same except one uses Lager yeast at higher temps and one that uses ale yeast.

Anyway, I just typed alot without giving any useful information, maybe I should just shut up now.

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No, very interesting discussion. Here' the list of yeast that I think I might use in no order of preference:

WY 2112 Lager good up to 65 deg
WL 810 Lager good up to 65 deg
WY 2124 Lager good up to 75 deg.
WL 862 Lager or Ale yeast
WY 2633 Lager low sulfur
Saflager S-23 Lager good up to 68 deg

Also I emailed WYeast ...might be that they will drop an idea or two on what yeast to use.

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Friggin' New Belgium!
Why do their Beers seem to deny cloning?!?
Well, a lot of it is that they have proprietary Yeast Strains.
Bought a 1554 today...

As to the yeast... I searched for the yeast profile and did not find it to be very distinctive. Maybe some slight Plum or Raisin like esters. But really that tastes pretty clean and does not seem to be an overly yeast driven. I like the idea of WLP 862. But really I do not have a great suggestion on what yeast to use. I do not think that a typical standard Lager at Ale Temps is something that is going to get you close to this beer...

As to the Hops... I would definitely add a flavoring addition. I am leaning to around 6 IBUs, based on your OP recipe's OG, added at 20 minutes with Saaz. This is a very Malt driven Beer. But there is a nice spice bite to it, that I do not think fully comes from the Grains of Paradise. Saaz seems like the ticket, IMO.

Friggin' New Belgium....

Oh, here are my tasting notes:

New Belgium 1554 Enlightened Black Ale

Appearance: Pours a deep Reddish Brown. Tight, thin, slightly off-whit head. Decent retention. Minimal lacing.

Aroma: Very malty nose. Hints of Caramel. Slight raisin.

Taste: Dark roasted Malts. Slight Caramel sweetness, offset be a bit of a spicyness.A touch of Plume. Slight fruity esters from the yeast. Just enough hops to provide balance. Truly a Malt forward beer. Very Robust

Mouthfeel: Medium- to heavy-bodied. Nice carbonation. Finishes very clean.

Overall: A very nice beer. Fairly complex, but an easy drinker

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Just got an email back from WYeast. My supplier sent the wrong type of yeast than I originally wanted ((2308 instead of 2633)contacted them and they said they'll send me the correct one pronto). So I asked WYeast if the 2308 would work with my plans in making the 1554 clone.

Wyeast wasn't too wordy, they just stated, "2308 Munich Lager will be a fine substitute for 2633 Octoberfest Lager Blend with this beer."

I have no idea if that helped.

This yeast is the tough part.

In the meantime, I'll comb through yeast descriptions for the plum or raisin flavours. :)

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If I can find it quickly enough, I think I decided on Wyeast 2124 (third time I've changed my mind, so it might happen again - or if I don't get the yeast I want).

NB once stated: "The beer is fermented at relatively high temperatures using a European lager yeast that imparts a refreshing, zesty acidity."

The current site doesn't say that anymore, it says, "Enlightened Black Ale uses a light lager yeast strain".

But, you can use the Wayback engine to see what NB used to say on their site: http://web.archive.org/web/20050206081711/http://newbelgium.com/beers_bk.php

So, so far we know:

Lager yeast at Ale temps
It's European yeast
It's a light lager yeast (don't know what that means).

Nobody seems to describe the fruity esters of lager yeasts as esters are supposed to be a no-no in lagers.

That Saflager-23 does look like a good choice. It's European, has estery fruity tones ...in fact it looks real good.

Will I change me mind again? -- Stay tuned. :)

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Well I'm making my version with the S-23. Granted it's a different recipe, but I'll let you know if the yeast provides the proper profile.

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Wow!
Gotta appreciate the dedication that is going into this recipe!!!

But, as I stated in my review, and that is only my opinion, this does not seem to be an overly Yeast Style driven beer. Kinda like Dink's suggestion of S-23 and concentrate on the Grist and Hops...

At any rate, I sure look forward to hearing about the end result!

Edit:
{without editing}
Skreeeeech...
Before posting I realized that I was not as sure about using S-23 at Ale Temps and that I was thinking that I would just go ahead and use Fermentis Safbrew T-58 with the proper Malts and Hops and see what came of it....

My advise... Brew Something Up and decide what changes need to be made!

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D Rock wrote:

Wow!
Gotta appreciate the dedication that is going into this recipe!!!

...

My advise... Brew Something Up and decide what changes need to be made!

LOL ..or an odd Obsessive Compulsive disorder.

I'll be doing that here in the next few days. It was going to be today but I decided to let me Hefeweizen sit a little longer before bottling. At the latest, I should be brewing Saturday.

..and then the long wait.

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D Rock wrote:


Before posting I realized that I was not as sure about using S-23 at Ale Temps and that I was thinking that I would just go ahead and use Fermentis Safbrew T-58 with the proper Malts and Hops and see what came of it....

The S-23 was suggested in another forum with good results in other recipes. I would probably use the WLP810 if I used liquid yeast, plus the extra 3 degrees the S-23 gives me comes in handy when you live in Phoenix. It's almost cool enough out here for me to brew my version up. Figure by the time my hard lemonade is done in the fermentor, this temp will be cool enough to brew up this recipe without the huge temp swings.

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Well I made it. Got a couple weeks and we'll see. It doesn't seem to be as black as it should be, but it's quite dark and does have a red hue. Only used hops for the bitterness (no flavour or aroma), and upped the GOP a little bit (1/4 tsp, less than a gram).

I'll call my "Uneducated Almost Black Ale"

It will be interesting to see what a couple weeks bring.

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Well, it's a tornado in there and it's krausen-ing through the top. Had to mop up a little bit a couple times now.

But it smells like worcestershire sauce.

Apparently I have a recipe for worcestershire sauce.

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rniles wrote:

Well, it's a tornado in there and it's krausen-ing through the top. Had to mop up a little bit a couple times now.

But it smells like worcestershire sauce.

Apparently I have a recipe for worcestershire sauce.


:laugh:

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Bottled my worcestershire sauce tonight. It's much less like worcestershire sauce now that the sulfur smells have dissipated. Smells good. Little hoppy but I'll see in two weeks after it's carbed a bit. The color is hard to tell I think until I have it in a glass. In the meantime, I'm drinking a Fat Tire (as my Mai Tyre-ish as been drunk a long time ago).

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I have the ingredients for my version of this clone and I will be brewing it this week. I'll post an update once it's in the fermentor.

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rniles wrote:

Bottled my worcestershire sauce tonight. It's much less like worcestershire sauce now that the sulfur smells have dissipated. Smells good. Little hoppy but I'll see in two weeks after it's carbed a bit. The color is hard to tell I think until I have it in a glass. In the meantime, I'm drinking a Fat Tire (as my Mai Tyre-ish as been drunk a long time ago).

I'm looking forward to hearing about it ... keep up with the updates.

You guys have inspired me to come up with my own black ale (partial mash). I do not really expect mine to necessarily be a 1554 clone, but I do expect to like it.

Maybe I'll post the recipe in a new thread and see what the borg has to say about it.

:chug:

I wish I could try your (both rniles and Dr. Dink) 1554 attempts.

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esheppy wrote:


I wish I could try your (both rniles and Dr. Dink) 1554 attempts.

If mine comes out drinkable, I'll add you to my QC tasting team.

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Very interested in hearing how yours turns out. It has been a enjoyable experiment.

ESheppy: Definately post. I get inspired seeing other people recipes.

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rniles wrote:

Very interested in hearing how yours turns out. It has been a enjoyable experiment.

ESheppy: Definately post. I get inspired seeing other people recipes.

Brewed My Version Up & Posted The Play By Play Here.

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Well got to try for the first time my attempt at a 1554 clone.

First, the color is dead on. Perfect color, same black with red hue. Same clarity (for a black beer). Same density (viewing). I "think" the hops are correct.

That's where the "same" ends.

Mine is: More mellow. Lighter mouth feel and I was fooling around with the carbing and under carbed it. Mine doesn't have much of a head to it. It does TASTE great and has a lot of the same lingering aftertastes that 1554 does but seems (other than more body) to be lacking something.

Theirs (NB 1554): More of a yeasty smell than mine. Much more head and much more of a mouth feel than mine. When you taste the two side by side, the 1554 has a intense flavour that mine does NOT have at all; what I think is a VERY pronounced coffee flavour (I think the coffee is their secret spice).

Mine is very good, you definitely want to take another drink (and more) and I wouldn't mind making it again but it's missing that something that makes it a 1554.

I'm calling it "Uneducated Ale".

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As long as it's drinkable, I'd say you have a successful recipe, even if it isn't a perfect "clone." I would have guessed the black malt would have given it that coffee flavor you were looking for. My version goes in the bottles this weekend so I'll be sampling at the same time. Did you ever mention what yeast you went with? I was also wondering how much priming sugar you used?

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I did use a "debittered" black. Maybe more is needed?

I went with Wyeast 2308 - I wanted to go with Wyeast 2633 but it didn't arrive in time. I think the yeast turned out fine but I don't think it's the same that they used with the 1554.

I'm afraid I don't know the priming sugar amount. Darn. I had that written down and can't find the paper. I had calculated sugar to be added to enough water in order to allow me to add 3 ml to each 16 oz bottle. If I can find that paper with my notes, I'll post.

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Well, the important thing is that you say "It does TASTE great".

Personally, I still think you need something in the flavoring hop range.

For the coffee flavor, maybe a bit more of the chocolate malt?

I added some crystal to my black ale for a little bit of the caramel taste.
Also, some victory malt which is supposed to add just a bit biscuity nutty flavor. Mostly I added that because I liked what it did in my Phat & Tyred beers ... not necessarily something I detected in 15554.

DRock mentioned raisin in his taste profile, so I ended up adding a 1.5 oz box of raisins with 5 minutes left in the boil (which probably does absolutely nothing to the taste, but thought I'd try it)


Anyway, my Black goes into the bottle late next week, so I am sort of living vicariously through your reports.

Glad you liked it even if it is not an exact clone.

When (if?) you make this again, let us know how that goes. Personally, I think the 2nd and 3rd iteration of a beer are the most fun.

:cheers:

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Well I didn't detect raisin but my beer taste bud need work. It's funny how I can pick flavours out of food but when it comes to beer, I'm still learning.

The coffee flavour is so pronounced, I'm wondering if they put coffee right into the brew. I don't know but I think for my next attempt I'll do as you suggest and up the chocolate malt.

As far as the hops ...maybe but I'm hop hesitant :) From what I have read and I don't know if everything I read is correct, that there is no flavouring or aroma hop additions.

If mine had more body, I think it would be great (not a 1554 clone but very good). It is pretty tasty as it is. I think the key to more body is to mash at something like 158 deg instead of 150 (I was shooting for 154 deg but I didn't make it - still getting used to working with the mash tun, I did preheat it but not good enough).

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