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Cidery beer

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I finally got to the point where I can drink my first batch. It was just a can of CAL but mine ended up on the cidery side. From what I've read I probably got an infection somewhere. Everything I have seen on the aceto infections said that their beer had little to no carbonation though however mine is just where I would expect it to be, is it possible its something else?.

 

I think where I went wrong was when I hoped that just soaking my 12oz bottles in one step solution for 10 minutes was going to be good enough, on bottling day I found myself without a bottle brush and i didn't have a lot of options. One other thing that I suspect may have been an issue was letting my primed beer sit in the fridge (i think for 12 hours) for an additional cold crash because I read on some forum to do that, which I now think is totally unnecessary. I have been following what I believe to be standard practice with not worrying if any bottles, caps etc. are still wet with one step, unless I am wrong?

 

My main reason for posting is to just see if anyone else had some good advice, hopefully I haven't ruined any of the other 5 batches I have made, I have been thoroughly cleaning my bottles since the first batch and haven't done any secondary cold crashes. 

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An acetobacter infection will taste vinegary, not cidery. A cidery flavor has nothing to do with an infection. It's caused by acetaldehyde, which is produced by the yeast. The causes can be from adding the yeast too warm (always use REFRIGERATED water when filling up to the first mark in the fermenter and when topping it to the 2nd mark), fermenting too warm (ferment at the LOW end of the temp scale. I usually ferment between 65-68 F.). Letting the fermenter sit for an extra week (3 weeks total) will also help reduce acetaldehyde. It may diminish over time in the bottles as they sit (room temps), but the CAL is a very light beer so it most likely still be detectable. It is harmless, just not very palatable in large amounts. 

 

 

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I already refrigerated the whole batch going on 4 days now, If I take it out will it start to condition again? I fermented for 20 days and conditioned for 4 weeks.... kind of assuming its not going to get any better. I read a few forum posts (Not mr beer just googled cidery beer) and they mostly talked about an aceto based infection and were talking about sanitizing. I trust what you are saying which is why I am posting here and not anywhere else but one thing I've learned about beer making is that opinions and facts can vary widely based on the group of people you talk to lol.

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An acetobacter infection is vinegary, not cidery. Acetobacter is what vinegar is made from. The bacteria creates acetic acid. Acetaldehyde is different as it's a product of the yeast, not bacteria. Acetaldehyde is what causes the cidery flavor.

 

Yes, you can bring the bottles back to room temperature and they will continue conditioning.

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Take them as of the fridge, as Josh suggested and let them condition further. Give them another month at room temperature. The cider like taste will be reduced. but probably never disappear totally. Pair your beer with well seasoned chicken or fish, you'll notice less of the cider taste. 

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I didn't want to start a new thread on this, so I figured that I'd piggyback on this one...  sorry if I've offended the OP.  

 

Being that Chewbeerca is an IPA, is it still recommend that it condition for 4wks or will it be pretty good to go 2wks and then 3 days in the fridge?

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38 minutes ago, AnthonyC said:

I didn't want to start a new thread on this, so I figured that I'd piggyback on this one...  sorry if I've offended the OP.  

 

Being that Chewbeerca is an IPA, is it still recommend that it condition for 4wks or will it be pretty good to go 2wks and then 3 days in the fridge?

 

It's fine after 2 weeks. It will get a bit more balanced with further conditioning, but if you want it to stay hop-forward, drink it sooner.

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20 minutes ago, MRB Josh R said:

 

It's fine after 2 weeks. It will get a bit more balanced with further conditioning, but if you want it to stay hop-forward, drink it sooner.

Thank you very much, Josh.

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My CAL, my first ever batch, also had a very noticeable cider taste.  It was definitely due to temps too warm.   My wort got so warm it even foamed over and out of the LBK.  The cider taste never went away, but I still drank it after first numbing my taste buds.  

 

This time, my second batch, I'm fermenting the German wheat beer, and things are going much better.  The ambient temp is at a steady 65 degrees plus/minus 1 degree, and the wort is at about 68 degrees.   Active fermentation was clearly taking place the morning after pitching the yeast, and not even close to foaming over.  

 

I think Mr. Beer should reword their instructions on temperature control because it sounds like multiple people are misunderstanding them.  

 

Steve

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5 hours ago, VictoryRider said:

I think Mr. Beer should reword their instructions on temperature control because it sounds like multiple people are misunderstanding them. 

 

It's actually quite rare that people have a problem with this. When you consider the amount of people that use our products successfully every day and come back for more refills, the amount of those that have issues with the instructions is very low. If this were an issue and multiple people were reporting it, we would change the instructions. But the instructions are very straight-forward. The temperature range exists because that is the range the yeast will perform optimally. If fermenting within that range, there's no way the CAL will overflow (I've tried it). You must have been at much higher temps than what was recommended. Our instructions also clearly say to use cold water when topping off the batch, which will cool the wort to temps low enough to pitch the yeast without causing thermal shock, which can promote acetaldehyde production.

 

If people follow the instructions, they will make beer. But the instructions are basic guidelines and not "rules". You can make your beer fast and easy, or you can be patient and ferment it "slow and low". It's all personal preference.

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1 hour ago, MRB Josh R said:

You must have been at much higher temps than what was recommended

That is 100% correct,  but I thought I was fermenting within the proper range.   Where I went wrong was that I was going by ambient temp, not the wort temp.   And I don't believe the printed instructions (there was no DVD) that came with my kit clearly explained that wort temps can be higher.    It appears that others too had that misunderstanding.   But you are correct that most seem to get it right.   Thanks......Steve

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6 minutes ago, VictoryRider said:

That is 100% correct,  but I thought I was fermenting within the proper range.   Where I went wrong was that I was going by ambient temp, not the wort temp.   And I don't believe the printed instructions (there was no DVD) that came with my kit clearly explained that wort temps can be higher.    It appears that others too had that misunderstanding.   But you are correct that most seem to get it right.   Thanks......Steve

 

Our temperatures in our instructions, and the temps on all manufacturer's yeasts refer to ambient temps, not wort temps.

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4 minutes ago, MRB Josh R said:

 

Our temperatures in our instructions, and the temps on all manufacturer's yeasts refer to ambient temps, not wort temps.

Oh?  Then I guess my issue was that my seedling heat pad was probably too close to the LBK.   Thanks!

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The instructions say to fill the lbk then top off with cold water. I've only used cold tap water, never refrigerated water.  I didn't read anything about refrigerated water until now. Maybe my cold tap water isn't cold enough.  

 

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It depends.  How cold is your tap water.

 

A simple math equation, which I posted several times, answers the question for you IF you take the temp of your tap water.  

 

272 oz in LBK, 48oz of water at X degrees (48/272 x X) plus 224oz of water at Y degrees (224/272 x Y) = temp of final product.

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32 minutes ago, Coop said:

The instructions say to fill the lbk then top off with cold water. I've only used cold tap water, never refrigerated water.  I didn't read anything about refrigerated water until now. Maybe my cold tap water isn't cold enough.  

 

 

Tap water is assumed to be room temperature. Cold water is assumed to be refrigerated. Unless you somehow have refrigerated plumbing, your tap water most likely isn't cold enough.

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2 hours ago, MRB Josh R said:

 

Tap water is assumed to be room temperature. Cold water is assumed to be refrigerated. Unless you somehow have refrigerated plumbing, your tap water most likely isn't cold enough.

Depends where you live and how deep your water service is. Here in Michigan our service leads are 4-1/2 to 5' deep. The temperature at that depth is about 50-55 degrees, pretty much year round. What changes is the air temp and the temperature of the piping it has to go through. Someone living in AridZona, Florida, or points south with a 2' deep service and warmer climate will not experience temps that low. I can get pretty cold water by just running it for a bit.

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8 minutes ago, Neverbrewedadarnthing said:

AridZona

 

This would've made me laugh if I didn't shed all my skin every 4 months living here.

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2 hours ago, Neverbrewedadarnthing said:

Someone living in AridZona, Florida, or points south with a 2' deep service and warmer climate will not experience temps that low.

 

We're seriously hard pressed to get tap water less than about 85 degrees in August. Coldest part of the year, we may get a little less than 70, but not unless you let the tap run a long time. When I fill my above-ground pool early in the spring (about now), it holds in the mid-60s for a while, but that's running for hours. 

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My first beer might as well been Green Apple Cider with Funky Earth thrown in. Then again I did everything wrong from temps to adding sugar to who knows what else. I mean, the only thing more I could have done wrong was invite a group of toddlers to dip their hands in it before I put the lid on. Plus it didn't help that I started opening bottles like at one week......

 

My next beer, the seasonal ESB, has been MUCH better.

 

I am hoping my next beers are even better. But who knows.

 

Don't worry about it. I am thinking that I am going to create a new category. Fresh Beers. Something like that. The whole style guideline is going to be written around  "a sharp taste of green apple on the palate, like a splash in the face, with undertone of flavors that even poets would find hard pressed to describe."

 

It will be a hit with the hipsters and I'll be able to charge ten dollars for a tulip glass.

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Come take a shower at my place and use only the cold knob. Then check your formula and let me know if it's cold or not. Lol.  

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