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cowboykyle

wrong yeast pitched!

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So, I did it.. pitched the wrong yeast in my LBK.  I correctly followed a bunch of steps correctly to make another batch of Angry Bovine Milk stout, but in the end, grabbed the wrong yeast packet and didn't catch the problem until it was too late.  I was doing three batched tonight, the milk stout, a dunkelweizen, and an apricot wheat.  I had two packets of WB-06 and one went in the stout during the first batch.  Fortunately I had another WB-06 so I the two wheat beers were done correctly... 

 

but what about the stout?  smooth LME, robust LME, and the stout HME with WB-06 yeast?  do I let it ride?  do I even have any other options?  

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Cool it down so it won't ferment too warm in the initial stages. You can keep some of the esters out of out that way. Find what it's lowest fermentation temp is and shoot for something near that for the initial period. If there's anything that can keep it from tasting like banana, that's it. You'll have  different beer, but it won't be a wheat beer. Some of the flavor from the yeast comes from interaction with they wheat malt. You might find you like it quite well.

The only thing that may be a real problem is relatively low attenuation with WB-06. I'd almost be tempted to pitch some hydrated US-05 to give the WB-06 some competition. That might clean up the flavor and let it attenuate better. You'd have to do it quick, though.

 

 

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EDIT:  I threw in the S-04 as well.  I have no other batches planned for that yeast, so what the hell.. at worst i'll be in competition with the  WB-06 and i'll keep it cool, as suggested to avoid banana flavor!

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15 minutes ago, cowboykyle said:

EDIT:  I threw in the S-04 as well.  I have no other batches planned for that yeast, so what the hell.. at worst i'll be in competition with the  WB-06 and i'll keep it cool, as suggested to avoid banana flavor!

 

I think that was your best option.  Who knows?  You may win the 2016 Serendipitous Brew of the Year award! ?

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This is very interesting to me because higher temps will create banana flavor and lower will create clover.  So is there a magic number where no flavor is achieved at all?

 

Funny cuz tomorrow im gonna brew my banana beer finally, maybe that is.  Well see

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I'm highly interested in how that brew turns out, two different types of yeast has been dancing in my head for a minute, but I'm a coward thus far lol,you might be on to something creeps, keep us posted

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10 hours ago, cowboykyle said:

EDIT:  I threw in the S-04 as well.  I have no other batches planned for that yeast, so what the hell.. at worst i'll be in competition with the  WB-06 and i'll keep it cool, as suggested to avoid banana flavor!

 

I was going to suggest S-04, too. It can be an aggressive yeast and might help tone down the WB-06. S-04 has it's own unique flavor profile that can lend some bread/biscuit notes. Along with the residual sugars from the lactose, you might end up with something that's very interesting if not necessarily the perfect beer. 

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There are a lot worst things in this world than a chocolate banana stout my friend.

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Not sure about adding another yeast to "compete' with the first. Each will multiply and ferment as if the other is not there. One might proliferate slightly faster, but I doubt the US-04 will overwhelm and eliminate the other yeast. As the malt sugars are used up, and alcohol increases, there will be a senescence and die off just as if you used a single yeast. Moreover, the yeast by products will be from both, and I'm not sure how that will taste. Best advice, control the temperature as best as you can during early fermentation. You will get beer, but perhaps with a few unexpected flavor notes.

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4 hours ago, Brian N. said:

Not sure about adding another yeast to "compete' with the first. Each will multiply and ferment as if the other is not there. One might proliferate slightly faster, but I doubt the US-04 will overwhelm and eliminate the other yeast. As the malt sugars are used up, and alcohol increases, there will be a senescence and die off just as if you used a single yeast.

 

Point being to allow another, "cleaner" yeast to reproduce and use up available sugars and keep the original yeast from being able to produce the level of esters and phenols  it might otherwise do. If the less desirable yeast microbes are a smaller percentage of the overall mix, then the less desirable characteristic should be somewhat less present in the flavor profile of the beer. I don't think mixing yeasts is an exact science, even when it's intentional. But it might help a little in this particular situation.

 

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Would dry-hopping some Kent Goldings help subdue the phenol flavors and inch this brew back to-style?

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for the first 48 hours i've had the LBK in a cooler with ice packs, keeping air temp around 63F.  Looks like high krausen has come and gone.  

 

just guessing, but as the WB-06 prefers a slightly warmer temp than the S-04... is it reasonable to assume that the S-04 is working more effectively?  

 

now I think I will have to repeat the goof up and hold at a higher temp to see what banana flavors come though.

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Q  - "If I jump off this roof, will I break my leg"?   

A - "I don't know, never tried."

 

The reality is that unless someone has done exactly what you've done here, there is absolutely no way that anyone can even guess as to the result.  "If it's colder, will it ____?"  Yes.  No.  Have no freakin' clue.  

 

My advice - ferment at 64 and leave it the hell alone.  Cross your fingers.  RDWHAHB

 

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I don't think it is fair to compare a mixed process with some defined variables to a yes or no abstract question.  Both yeast have ideal ranges in which the manufacturers recommend use.  Therefore it follows that when using two different yeast with two different ideal ranges, that holding temps in only ONE of the yeast's ranges will give that yeast an advantage, no?

 

Multistage distillations utilize fixed tray temps to pull out very specific portions of compounds.  the reason they work is because those specific parts boil off at very specific temperatures.  It is proven that fermenting above 73F with WB-06 gives banana flavor... it is proven that fermenting below 72 gives clove...  just because no one has previously done exactly what i've done here, does not mean previous knowledge of individual components behavior cannot be applied...  in other words, yes, you you have a 75% chance of breaking your leg if the roof is over 15 feet high, but if the roof is under that, your chances drop to 35%.  so likely no!

 

Absolutely no one has to have even come close the doing what i've done to simply guess at what might happen.  This is all just speculation.  If you are all done talking about beer, you can wait for another topic to come up... 

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I was all done before I posted that  ;)   I don't think the logical arguments are valid, and I don't think that whatever results you get will be determinable, i.e. causation as in "I kept it at 64 therefore this did that and didn't do the other".   Hopefully it will be drinkable though, because otherwise we have to hold a ceremony to mourn the loss of the beer.

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I get your point. The overall maximum active yeast population density between the two strains will probably be close to that of a single strain, given the confines of limited resources (malt and other fermentables). Will this limit the byproducts of the unwanted yeast? Can't say for sure. In theory I would say yes, but we are dealing with a living "ecosystem" so to speak. predicting interactions is difficult. The good news is that in a few weeks you can let us know how it turned out, and report your results as in any good experiment.

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Most of these yeasts will ferment like a mofo at 63 degrees. If it's happy and healthy and not stressed it'll ferment cleaner and not produce as many esters and phenols. It already did most of what it was going to do in the first 48 hours of ferment.

As soon as this beer starts to clear (and it will pretty soon because the WB-06 and especially the S-04 have very good floccing qualities) you can have a little taste sample and you'll know what you're dealing with.  You've done everything you could do and now it's a crap shoot.

You'll end up with good beer. Might not be your best effort, but it won't be the worst you ever drank. 

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Well if batman wins then superman gets etc!!!

 

The green lantern knows,

 

Cheers

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I would leave it and see how you like it. I would think though that the milk stout has such strong flavors it may not change a lot.

 

I just did that combination on purpose instead of by accident a few days ago - it is German "SteamBeer" - Dampfbier.

The one I just started was Patriot Lager/American Lager HME,  8 oz Pale DME, 1/3 pack WB-06 and 0.5 oz hop - I may use Hallertauer or Tettnanger when I get bags tomorrow. ( I made the beer before I realized I did no and did not want to just throw hops in. )

LBK smells great right now.

 

German Dampfbier is made using Barley malt and Wheat yeast. I made one last year and liked it.

I took some o a brewing event and everyone liked it and a certified beer judge also liked it but said it fit in no official category - lol. 

The old MR B recipe for it is called "Serf's Up". (Serfs Up uses Smooth LME, Liberty Hop instead and WB-06 - 1 pack.)

 

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17 hours ago, Nickfixit said:

I would leave it and see how you like it. I would think though that the milk stout has such strong flavors it may not change a lot.

 

I just did that combination on purpose instead of by accident a few days ago - it is German "SteamBeer" - Dampfbier.

The one I just started was Patriot Lager/American Lager HME,  8 oz Pale DME, 1/3 pack WB-06 and 0.5 oz hop - I may use Hallertauer or Tettnanger when I get bags tomorrow. ( I made the beer before I realized I did no and did not want to just throw hops in. )

LBK smells great right now.

 

German Dampfbier is made using Barley malt and Wheat yeast. I made one last year and liked it.

I took some o a brewing event and everyone liked it and a certified beer judge also liked it but said it fit in no official category - lol. 

The old MR B recipe for it is called "Serf's Up". (Serfs Up uses Smooth LME, Liberty Hop instead and WB-06 - 1 pack.)

 

 

I put in 0.5 oz Hallertauer Mittelfrau.

 

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