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VictoryRider

Green Apple Flavor Again

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So I just tasted my German Wheat that fermented for 3 and conditioned for 4 weeks.   And just like my first batch of CAL, it has a strong green apple taste that makes it almost undrinkable.   The wort during fermentation was a consistent 68 / 69 degrees, and conditioning was done in that same temp range.  

 

I realized this morning that I'm using a 2 quart pot to boil my water instead of the recommended 3 quart pot.  Could that be causing the green apple taste?  I doubt it, but I'm running out of ideas.  

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You should condition a little warmer, 70 degrees or a little warmer is recommended. Sometimes it just takes longer than 4 weeks conditioning. Try conditioning at least another couple of weeks or more and you should notice a difference. As suspected the pot should have nothing to do with it. Patience is your friend.

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19 minutes ago, VictoryRider said:

So I just tasted my German Wheat that fermented for 3 and conditioned for 4 weeks.   And just like my first batch of CAL, it has a strong green apple taste that makes it almost undrinkable.   The wort during fermentation was a consistent 68 / 69 degrees, and conditioning was done in that same temp range.  

 

I realized this morning that I'm using a 2 quart pot to boil my water instead of the recommended 3 quart pot.  Could that be causing the green apple taste?  I doubt it, but I'm running out of ideas.  

 

The size of the pot that you boil water in has absolutely no impact on the end product.  The reason for the size specification is to fit the water and can of ingredients.  When using Craft or Seasonal brews, you'll find a 3 quart pot a much better fit.

 

In your prior posts, it was recommended to you that you RAISE the temp of the bottles during conditioning and not worry about temp control.  You are again being told to raise the temp.  If you insist on keeping them in a 68 degree environment, go 6 weeks.  If that's not better, go 8 weeks.  

 

 

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31 minutes ago, RickBeer said:

 

The size of the pot that you boil water in has absolutely no impact on the end product.  The reason for the size specification is to fit the water and can of ingredients.  When using Craft or Seasonal brews, you'll find a 3 quart pot a much better fit.

 

In your prior posts, it was recommended to you that you RAISE the temp of the bottles during conditioning and not worry about temp control.  You are again being told to raise the temp.  If you insist on keeping them in a 68 degree environment, go 6 weeks.  If that's not better, go 8 weeks.  

 

It’s not warm enough where I live to maintain 70 or over, so I keep the bottles in my chest freezer which currently has an LBK fermenting, thus the 68 / 69 degree temps.

I understand that the higher temps will make the yeast more active which will condition the beer faster, but if you could taste what I’m talking about, I don’t think 8 months would be enough.  I gave one bottle to a co-worker of mine who brews, and he could not even drink it.  When he bottled, he said his bottles conditioned for 3 weeks or so in the 60 degree range and his beers were fine (he did not use Mr. Beer). 

 

 

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Then ensure the following:

 

1) You are starting with a gallon of COLD WATER in the LBK.  Not 60 degree water.  If necessary, put some water in the fridge the night before.

 

2) You are adding COLD WATER to top off to the proper line.

 

3) You are not brewing with water that tastes lousy to begin with.  For example, in Florida the water screams of chlorine.  That has to be neutralized before brewing.

 

4) You are properly cleaning and sanitizing.

 

5) Wait 6 or 8 weeks. If that doesn't work, try NOT brewing and using the chest freezer to raise the temps to 75 on the bottles for 4 weeks, then refrigerate for at least 3 days and try that.  

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My wheat beer took 6to8 weeks to condition. I would suggest this as a  minimum, after 8 weeks my wheat beer was nothing but terrific to say the least, time is  definitely your friend, you can't rush good beer 

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That's what I'm dealing with.  After 3 weeks fermentation at 62-64 degrees it still has a hint of green apple taste.  I understand that I may have to wait 8 weeks instead of 4 weeks to have it taste the way it should.  Patience Patience PATIENCE!!!!! :blink:

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I agree. I condition my bottles at 65 - 68 degrees because I have to do it in the basement and it doesn't get much warmer than that. I just give them extra time to condition and that seems to work.

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10 hours ago, John K. said:

I agree. I condition my bottles at 65 - 68 degrees because I have to do it in the basement and it doesn't get much warmer than that. I just give them extra time to condition and that seems to work.

 

Yeah, that's probably the best plan.

 

How about them Twins?? :-( I'm a Twins fan myself. Going to be seeing a game in June when they play the Red Sox. Can't wait!

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On 5/11/2016 at 9:33 AM, Bach's Brews said:

 

Yeah, that's probably the best plan.

 

How about them Twins?? :-( I'm a Twins fan myself. Going to be seeing a game in June when they play the Red Sox. Can't wait!

It's been pretty tough so far this year. Hope the can start playing better soon! I've been to one game this year. Love Target Field! Awesome having baseball outside again. The dome was terrible for baseball. Only good thing was no weather issues. Do you live in Minnesota? I'm about 30 minutes North of downtown Minneapolis. Enjoy the game, hope the weather is good!

DSCN0266.JPG

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56 minutes ago, John K. said:

It's been pretty tough so far this year. Hope the can start playing better soon! I've been to one game this year. Love Target Field! Awesome having baseball outside again. The dome was terrible for baseball. Only good thing was no weather issues. Do you live in Minnesota? I'm about 30 minutes North of downtown Minneapolis. Enjoy the game, hope the weather is good!

DSCN0266.JPG

WOW! is that the view from your penthouse window???

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3 minutes ago, HoppySmile! said:

WOW! is that the view from your penthouse window???

I wish! This was from a game in 2010, upper deck behind home plate. Great seats. Isn't many bad seats in the stadium.

 

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just think if u had that view everyday from your home, u would be the richest man in Minnesota!!!

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2 minutes ago, HoppySmile! said:

just think if u had that view everyday from your home, u would be the richest man in Minnesota!!!

That would be awesome! That and drinking home brewed beer! Doesn't get much better than that......... Maybe a winning team. But I'm still a big fan either way. Go Twins!

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15 hours ago, John K. said:

It's been pretty tough so far this year. Hope the can start playing better soon! I've been to one game this year. Love Target Field! Awesome having baseball outside again. The dome was terrible for baseball. Only good thing was no weather issues. Do you live in Minnesota? I'm about 30 minutes North of downtown Minneapolis. Enjoy the game, hope the weather is good!

DSCN0266.JPG

 

 

Right, baseball outside is so much better!  I live in Wisconsin. About 4-5 hours from Minneapolis. Can't wait!

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7 minutes ago, Bach's Brews said:

 

 

Right, baseball outside is so much better!  I live in Wisconsin. About 4-5 hours from Minneapolis. Can't wait!

I live in green bay!!!! Beer swap!!!

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1 hour ago, Creeps McLane said:

I live in green bay!!!! Beer swap!!!

You live in greenbay? How about football ticket swap. I'll get you some Carolina ones. 

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59 minutes ago, ukappfan said:

You live in greenbay? How about football ticket swap. I'll get you some Carolina ones. 

Sure bud! Carolina for some bullfrog tickets? Its a deal. Bull frogs have better beer

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I know there are probably a lot of factors that go into this - type of beer, conditioning temps, brew process, etc., but I am finding that four weeks is just not enough time for my beers so far.

 

Right now I am at a minimum of 6 weeks. I'm finding some beers are needing to go 8+ weeks.

 

And because earlier my process was not all that great, some of those early batches might never be great.

 

Here is my advice: 

1. Let the beer condition longer. 4 weeks at 70 for this one is clearly not enough. Let it condition another 2 weeks and sample. Or wait another four weeks.

2. Do a complete review of your brewing process and look for errors that may be contributing to this taste.

 

Don't worry. Brewing is a learned skill just like any other. My later beers are tasting better than my earlier beers. I am hoping my next batch of beers taste even better as I continue to eliminate errors and build a solid process.

 

 

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The last two I brewed where over 9 months ago (Horse's Ass Ale and Jamaica Mon) They've been sitting for all this time and the Horse's Ass Ale still tastes like cider and the Jamaica Mon tastes like rubbing alcohol, has been since they've  been done.  I don't know what happened. Anybody have any feedback? 

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I don't think anyone can tell you what you did 9 months ago that led to them being lousy.  Toss them both.

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1 hour ago, craftbeersyndrome said:

The last two I brewed where over 9 months ago (Horse's Ass Ale and Jamaica Mon) They've been sitting for all this time and the Horse's Ass Ale still tastes like cider and the Jamaica Mon tastes like rubbing alcohol, has been since they've  been done.  I don't know what happened. Anybody have any feedback? 

sorry to hear that, the Jamaica mon I brew was a favorite! dnt give up! this shud just piss u off enuf to brew more! it wud with me!

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26 minutes ago, HoppySmile! said:

sorry to hear that, the Jamaica mon I brew was a favorite! dnt give up! this shud just piss u off enuf to brew more! it wud with me!

Yeah, I know I should have never quit, but that damn disappointment got the better of me! I'm gonna try my hardest to never let that happen again!! 

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just remember sanitize everything that comes in contact with ur beer, absolute rule#1, then the 3-4-3 rule#2, 3 wks minimum in LBK, 4 wks minimum in bottles, may take 6 wks, then 3 days in fridge.

1 hour ago, craftbeersyndrome said:

Yeah, I know I should have never quit, but that damn disappointment got the better of me! I'm gonna try my hardest to never let that happen again!! 

I also keep a log of everything I brew be it good or disaster so I can research any mistakes I made. I write down brewing temps, quantities used, hydrometer readings, etc,. and not all the time I remember to take o.g & f.g. readings bcuz I get wound up in the brewing fun, so I let the fermentation go 4 wks to be sure. but that's how I roll sumtimes...........

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12 minutes ago, HoppySmile! said:

just remember sanitize everything that comes in contact with ur beer, absolute rule#1, then the 3-4-3 rule#2, 3 wks minimum in LBK, 4 wks minimum in bottles, may take 6 wks, then 3 days in fridge.

I also keep a log of everything I brew be it good or disaster so I can research any mistakes I made. I write down brewing temps, quantities used, hydrometer readings, etc,. and not all the time I remember to take o.g & f.g. readings bcuz I get wound up in the brewing fun, so I let the fermentation go 4 wks to be sure. but that's how I roll sumtimes...........

 

It is a skill...a learning process like any other thing and each step you can improve then the better your beer will be.

 

Don't give up. Keep brewing. 

 

 

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8 hours ago, HoppySmile! said:

just remember sanitize everything that comes in contact with ur beer, absolute rule#1, then the 3-4-3 rule#2, 3 wks minimum in LBK, 4 wks minimum in bottles, may take 6 wks, then 3 days in fridge.

I also keep a log of everything I brew be it good or disaster so I can research any mistakes I made. I write down brewing temps, quantities used, hydrometer readings, etc,. and not all the time I remember to take o.g & f.g. readings bcuz I get wound up in the brewing fun, so I let the fermentation go 4 wks to be sure. but that's how I roll sumtimes...........

I kept a log of all my brews...date I brewed and how long they fermented, conditioned, and tasted, etc. I don't have hydrometer YET...right now I don't really care about knowing the ABV...I'm more interested in taste. I guess you can say I'm re-testing the waters again! LOL

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I think one of the keys to the whole process is to have a taste sample when it's done fermenting, whether you wait a full 21 days or check FG starting at 14. If it tastes clean and with no acetaldehyde, it's ready. If it doesn't taste right, leave it longer. Acetaldehyde will condition out better and faster on the yeast cake during "secondary fermentation" than in the bottle. It's possible for acetaldehyde production to happen in the bottle if it's conditioned at high temperature for the first few days, but even then, it's very minimal and will condition out in a very short while. 

When it comes to acetaldehyde, diacetyl and sulphur flavors, beer should taste good as soon as it's carbonated (though high OG beers or hoppy ales will benefit from further aging) and the only reason it doesn't is that it wasn't ready to bottle. Other off flavors (due to sanitation issues) are different, but the off flavors that are associated with yeast metabolism will take care of themselves in secondary. 

I doubt that HME is responsible for green apple flavor, though maybe the slightly harsh hop profile and "twang" associated with extracts might add to it. I think the acetaldehyde comes from yeast being inefficient or temperature sensitive. I have a feeling that a CAL HME pitched with US-05 or even a starter made from the yeast in the kit would tend to ferment cleaner and condition faster.

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When I typed in green apple in the search bar I was shocked to see how many posts there actually was. I will say this in the most respectful way I can, this used to NEVER be a issue EVER with Mr Beer products. Before the company was sold I brewed literally dozens and dozens of batches and using a 2-2-2 method I NEVER had this issue and after only 6 weeks, beer was awesome. What has changed over the years? I have had 2 batches both turn out green apple tasting so bad they were undrinkable. My last one was in the lbk for 3 weeks and has been in the bottle 2 months now and still tastes like crap.

 

1. It can not be my water. I brewed a 5 gallon batch using steeping grains and briess LME and after a 2-2-2 method, it is fantastic!

2. Sanitizing is no issue for me. I do not use cheap sanitizer. I only use StarSan.

3. I'm not a newbie, been at it since 2009

4. ferment temps were in the mid to lower 60's and conditioning has been around the 70 degree mark.

 

So here I sit in the same boat as the OP and countless others who have reported green apple tasting beers. I am the myth buster when it comes to the crappy water myth or not cleaning /sanitizing good enough and my temps have been spot on.

 

Any ideas? I got 2.25 gallons of beer that is useless. I know .... let it condition for 9 more months. This is 2 refills in a row that have had this. Until I get this figured out I can not use MrB refills anymore. I WILL continue to use my LBK's and bottles though.

 

I am trying to be as respectful as I can here. I have always loved catalina products as a company and always used their products. I am open to anything. I love the idea of MrBeer in a pinch for small batches or when I just don't have time to brew a 5 gallon batch. Now my hands are tied. I cant keep tieing up $35 in a 2 pack of refills that taste like crap. When for less than or close to $20 I can brew up a great tasting 5 gallon batch.

 

And if I hijacked this thread, please forgive me and feel free to move it to its own thread if needs be.

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3 hours ago, DjPorkchop73 said:

When I typed in green apple in the search bar I was shocked to see how many posts there actually was. I will say this in the most respectful way I can, this used to NEVER be a issue EVER with Mr Beer products. Before the company was sold I brewed literally dozens and dozens of batches and using a 2-2-2 method I NEVER had this issue and after only 6 weeks, beer was awesome. What has changed over the years? I have had 2 batches both turn out green apple tasting so bad they were undrinkable. My last one was in the lbk for 3 weeks and has been in the bottle 2 months now and still tastes like crap.

 

1. It can not be my water. I brewed a 5 gallon batch using steeping grains and briess LME and after a 2-2-2 method, it is fantastic!

2. Sanitizing is no issue for me. I do not use cheap sanitizer. I only use StarSan.

3. I'm not a newbie, been at it since 2009

4. ferment temps were in the mid to lower 60's and conditioning has been around the 70 degree mark.

 

So here I sit in the same boat as the OP and countless others who have reported green apple tasting beers. I am the myth buster when it comes to the crappy water myth or not cleaning /sanitizing good enough and my temps have been spot on.

 

Any ideas? I got 2.25 gallons of beer that is useless. I know .... let it condition for 9 more months. This is 2 refills in a row that have had this. Until I get this figured out I can not use MrB refills anymore. I WILL continue to use my LBK's and bottles though.

 

I am trying to be as respectful as I can here. I have always loved catalina products as a company and always used their products. I am open to anything. I love the idea of MrBeer in a pinch for small batches or when I just don't have time to brew a 5 gallon batch. Now my hands are tied. I cant keep tieing up $35 in a 2 pack of refills that taste like crap. When for less than or close to $20 I can brew up a great tasting 5 gallon batch.

 

And if I hijacked this thread, please forgive me and feel free to move it to its own thread if needs be.

what recipes did you do?? i'm just curious..... when I used the Octoberfest in recipes I thought they had a slight apple flavor but other then that nothing bad or undrinkable.... I remember the 2-2-2.... I liked the American devil IPA from back in the day I think that was the name of it,,,anyways good luck...

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14 hours ago, Stroomer420 said:

When I typed in green apple in the search bar I was shocked to see how many posts there actually was

Yup.   When my third batch tasted exactly like the previous two, a gross mix of apple cider and beer, I decided to google Mr Beer green apple taste.  And I too was shocked at how many people had the exact same complaint.   That's when I decided to throw in the towel and purchased $150 of all new equipment at a local home brew shop.  And what a difference.  After fermenting my first new batch for only 2 weeks, I gave it a taste-test before I bottled it.  It tasted exactly like excellent flat warm beer.   Absolutely no cider taste at all.  

 

I don't mean to bash Mr. Beer.  All I wanted was to make good beer from it.   And I'm not advocating anyone to switch from it.    But if your beers consistently taste like crap, and you feel as if you are doing everything right, then you may just want to make a visit to your local home brew shop.      Oh, and if you do get new equipment, don't toss your LBK.   I'm going to use mine as a secondary for my 2.5 gallon lager.   All I did was tape up the notches and drilled a hole in the lid for an airlock.  

 

Steve

 

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Clearly I can't answer why some get a green apple flavor and some don't beyond what's already suggested - temperature control, sanitation.  And that the lighter Mr. Beer refills (lighter in color) seem more prone than the darker.  

 

But I can say it has absolutely nothing to do with the equipment.

 

Besides the fact that you can ferment in almost anything, I have been fermenting in LBKs for 4 years.  I have made over 200 gallons of beer, the vast majority with steeping grains, LME, and hops.  Anyone that blames the equipment is simply wrong.  

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12 minutes ago, RickBeer said:

But I can say it has absolutely nothing to do with the equipment.

I would probably agree, but I did not want to take a chance and the new stuff is fun to use.   The issue is probably more with their HME.  I don't know if I was clear before, but at my home brew shop, I purchased and used their DME extract kit with all fresh ingredients.   And like I said in my previous post, the beer after two weeks of fermenting was excellent.  It was so good that while bottling it, I kept taking sips from the test tube I used to take the hydrometer reading from. I never thought I would enjoy warm flat beer (lol).  

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On ‎6‎/‎19‎/‎2016 at 11:52 AM, VictoryRider said:

I would probably agree, but I did not want to take a chance and the new stuff is fun to use.   The issue is probably more with their HME.  I don't know if I was clear before, but at my home brew shop, I purchased and used their DME extract kit with all fresh ingredients.   And like I said in my previous post, the beer after two weeks of fermenting was excellent.  It was so good that while bottling it, I kept taking sips from the test tube I used to take the hydrometer reading from. I never thought I would enjoy warm flat beer (lol).  

In the FWIW department. I have noticed that my final product tastes a little different than it did @ bottling. My assumption has been that the act of carbonation  makes some flavors more noticeable than others. It could explain why you brew was fine at testing and at bottling but not at carb check.

I freely admit I only brewed 1 extract boil kit. I prefer to brew my own recipes, but I just had to try that True Brew Red Rye.

Edited by Jim Johnson
spelling correction

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Hi guys sorry to post and ghost. I had not one but 2 deaths in my family the same day at 2 ends of the country and had to make a decision on who's funeral I was going to. That royally sucked..

 

Hey Stoomer thanks for the reply. The recipes I have tried so far is the CAL and Mexican Cerveza.  Now, that being said and after my long winded post, I did fail to add as was pointed out by another user above me here that when bottling, it tasted fantastic out of the LBK. The issue was after bottling. I came home late last night and decided today to grab another and give it a try. I will say, it no longer smells like green apple. It has a very bland watered down miller high life taste with a HINT of green apple. I would say a quick few more days and that will be gone and left with very bland miller high life tasting beer which just happens to be the Mexican cerveza refill with no booster. HME only.

 

So I guess it is just a matter of waiting lord knows how long for it to condition. I will say it is now very crisp and clean but bland. With some steeping grains, this would be a decent base to start a decent recipe. The waiting game is just horrible though.

Edited by DjPorkchop73
bad typos. I want to look semi literate.
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Did a CAL w booster. Fermented at 64 65° on the 3/4/3 program. the first bottle was green and I essentially forgot about the rest in the closet. 4 months later my wife accidentally took a bottle to her folks thinking it was fermented tea I also ;)brew.  they thought it was lights out good.

The rest is almost gone. Patience has always rewarded me on this issue. 

 

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