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Broox

Intro to hops?

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Ok, I am ready to try adding hops to one of my batches.  I would like to make two batches, the same except add hops to one. Hmes I have on hand are American ale and lager, wiessenbier, Canadian blonde, and Oktoberfest.

I am looking for hop suggestions as well as proper technique on adding them 

I do not like IPA style beer. 

Thanks, Brooks

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If you don't like IPAs there's not much reason to add hops unless maybe a Pale Ale level of hop bitterness and aroma is what you're after. You can add a half ounce of just about any hop at the end of the boil or dry-hop to get some aroma without bitterness, but unless you're going to figure out how to use a recipe calculator, you're just guessing about how much bitterness any particular hop will add earlier in the boil.

Your American Ale and maybe Canadian Blonde are about the only candidates for extra hops becaust the others are European style beers that don't have much extra in the way of hop flavor or aroma. Since you have those on hand, look through the Mr. Beer recipe kits and see which ones use those HMEs. That'll give you a starting place and you can either buy LME/DME components and hops locally or order the extra ingredients from Mr.Beer since they're already packaged in units that the recipe is built from.

 

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There are recipes on the site for each refill that include added hops.

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To be clear: " dry hopping" is just putting the hop/muslin sack in the LBK, not boiling it, correct?

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1 hour ago, Broox said:

To be clear: " dry hopping" is just putting the hop/muslin sack in the LBK, not boiling it, correct?

 

To me it means adding hops to the lbk after the most active phase of fermentation is over, like 4-7 days before bottling.

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^^^What he said. ;)

 

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Hello @Broox!

 

I have been on a hop education since starting this home brewing thing. 

A couple of quick points - which you probably already know, but I like talking about hops.

* There are three things you can do with hops - bitter, flavor, and aroma. And of course, any combination of the three.

* In a general sense, longer boiling (20+) is bittering without flavoring and aroma. Shorter boiling (20 to 5) is more flavor, less bitter, less aroma. Lesser times (5 minute boil to flameout to dry hopping) is more aroma, and then less to no flavor. This is a sliding scale and the amount of whatever you get also depends on the amount of hops. 1oz of hops boiled for 10 minutes does not impart as much flavor/aroma as 3oz of hops.

--

Okay. We've got that covered. You want to know your hops.

 

First, some of the best base beers that Mr. Beer offers for this are the American Ale, American Lager, and CAL. And you have two of those on hand! 

 

Now - what hops do you know? What flavors do you like? My advice - when you drink beer, make sure to look at the brewer's site and see what hops were used. Craft brewers especially are very open about what hops they use. They exact hop boil? Probably not. But they will usually give you a good idea of what went in. This will start to give you a bit of idea how the hops flavor the beer.

 

Next - Take a look at the Mr. Beer site. The best way to learn will be to pick one hop and use it to both add flavor and aroma. (I did not do it like this. I add more than one type in varying combinations as I am exploring this.)

 

My suggestion would be to start with Goldings, and then either Columbus or Cascade.

 

Now, buy two packs.

 

For your beer it will be best to also have an LME to boil the hops in. I would use pale.

 

Take the Pale LME, dissolve it into the water, and bring it to a soft boil.

 

Do a 10 minute boil. Add the first hop (say Goldings.) Boil for five minutes. Now, at the five minute mark, add the second bag of goldings. The first bag boiled for a nice ten minutes giving you a nice shot of flavor. The second bag boiled for 5, giving you a strong aroma.

 

Then take it off the heat, and add your HME.

 

This might not be the best beer you brew,  but honestly just the process of brewing the hops will give you a good sense of what you are dealing with.

 

If you want an even stronger sense of the hop, up it to three bags. (This is overkill.) A 10 minute boil, one for a full 10, one for 5, one at flameout.

 

I have a base beer. It is a CAL HME, one golden LME, and booster. I use this with a variety of different hop profiles just to see what they taste like. I look at the descriptions of hops and just try to combine and see what happens. Right now I have an English Hoppy CAL fermenting and an "earthy spicy" one. 

 

Best of luck as you enter the wild world of hops!

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MrWhy!  Very nice explanation.

After Goldings and Cascade, I would suggest Amarillo  (orange citrus), Citra (Grapefruit citrus)  and maybe a European Hop e.g. Saaz .Then something totally wild and different like an Australian or New Zealand hop with tropical fruit flavors.

I must admit I have not tried must of the Hop test suggested, but I think I might. I have been experimenting more with malts - trying to get the effects I want from darker malt extracts.  WDA still not cloned yet thought - lol. 

 

American Ale, Smooth (or Briess Sparkling Amber) LME/DME and Amarillo make a nice amber ale for me.

 

If he doesn't like IPAs and it is the hop intensity not only the bitterness, I would not suggest adding much more than 1 to 1.5 oz. pellets total pe LBK.

You can actually get a nice boost from only 0.5 oz which will not hit you too hard.

 But if he tries a couple times, he will find the good personal amount to add.

 

Also look at online hop chart for flavors that are acceptable.

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@MrWhy, man I cannot thank you enough for taking the time to walk me through the basics. I know this info is scattered all over this forum, but search for "hops" or "adding hops" and a million posts come up. Thanks alot. I am ready to do some experimenting.

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1 hour ago, Broox said:

@MrWhy, man I cannot thank you enough for taking the time to walk me through the basics. I know this info is scattered all over this forum, but search for "hops" or "adding hops" and a million posts come up. Thanks alot. I am ready to do some experimenting.

 

No problem! I am in the same position as you are. The thing is, we are trying to do two things at once. First, learn the techniques of adding hops. Two, learn what the flavor and aroma profile of each hop actually is.

 

And let me tell you, there is just some deep level satisfaction when, as you learn the hops, you start to recognize them in the beers you are drinking. I still remember drinking a firestone DBA and in my head it just hit me...Goldings. This is goldings I am smelling and tasting. And when I jumped on their website....hot darn that beer is hopped with Goldings! 

 

I love trying out the different hops and seeing how they taste and smell. And you really do learn a lot. I had a Farmhouse Tank 7 Ale (great Belgian Beer.) I was not able to identify any of the hops directly, but I know from the taste and smell that these were more of the citrusy/fruity hops. And when I looked up the beer, I was right. Now for my next Belgian pale I am going to try a hop profile something like that.

 

Any beer you brew up to experiment with the hops, let me know! 

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@Nickfixit, it is funny you mention an Amber ale. About a month ago I got a Gerst Amber ale brewed by yazoo at a restaurant. I remember thinking "man, I wish I could brew a beer like this!"  So l made a batch of beer with an American ale HME and a pound of muntons Amber dme. At bottling it tasted very bland, which is what got me interested in hopping. When I Google that beer, it tells me it has 11 IBU' s, SRM of 8.3, and 5.1 ABV. I couldn't find where they disclose which hops are used. I wonder how your Amber ale would compare the the Gerst?

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Never had the Gerst so not sure.

 

With mine, it took a couple months in bottle to get the hops smooth.

 

But it does say "This is a very “clean” beer, with mostly German malts and a hint of flaked maize, remaining as true as possible to the original Gerst recipe."

FG: 1.3 Plato
IBUs: 11
SRM: 8.3

5.1% ABV

OG: 11.4 Plato

 

Looking at the stats , it has low IBUs  so American Ale is a little much at a stated 43 IBU vs Yazoo's 11.

I would start with Pilsner HME and add the 1 lb of amber malt

Based on the clone recipe below I would do partial mash of 4 oz flaked corn and 4 oz Cara 20 first

Bitterness should be right but for more hoppiness I would add some at flameout and dry hop too supposedly not impacting the IBU.

The recipe below uses Tettnanger.

Maybe try 0.5 oz at flameout + 0.5 oz last 5 days before bottling.

Also ferment in low 60s maybe with a clean ale yeast like S-05?

 

Anyway that is my 2 cents.

If you try this, please post how it turned out.

 

http://beerpal.com/Gerst-Amber-Ale-Beer/10037/

 

 

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@Nickfixit, wow, impressive work. That recipe is still above my skill level, but someday. Thanks

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@Broox  - This is not too difficult, it is within the scope of the MR Beer published recipes, and you can get all this stuff from Mr Beer or local home brew or mail order.

See if how it looks below. But if you are not confident try the new things one at a time. I would try the hop adds first to a batch of whatever you make  to get comfortable doing that, then the grain steeps. It is messing with the grain that is more time consuming and messy I think.

 

Mr Beer sells Flaked Corn and Cara 15 which will probably work in 4 oz. bags for ~ $0.50 each.

Combine that with a Czech Pilsener HME, and either 2 bags of smooth liquid malt (for really brown, sweet and caramelly) or a bag of smooth and a bag of pale liquid malt for not so brown, sweet and caramelly, and 1 oz of Tettnnger hops. You would need 3 hop bags too and the S-05 yeast

 

Disclaimer - this is a guess - I have not tried brewing this - lol. 

 

Ingredients

Czech Pilsener HME

4 oz flaked corn

4 oz Cara 15

either 1 Smooth LME and 1 Pale LME

or 2 Smooth LME

1 oz Tettnanger Hop pellets

S-05 yeast

3 hop bags

 

It is not exact but you can use 8 oz of Dried Malt instead of the LME if you want, but if you do, I would add it before boiling the liquid and then bring to the boil carefully while stirring as it may foam a bit when boiling.

 

Process

Sterilize equipment as per Mr B instructions.

Put HME can and LME bags in hot water to soften up.

Put grains in hop bag and soak in water to just cover bag (start with 4 cups and add as needed) for 30 min at 165 deg approx. I use a kitchen digital thermometer and stove warming area to keep the pan warm)

Strain grain bag into pan, rinse with 1 cup hot water into pan.

Make water in pan up to 4 cups if less

Bring pan to boil

Add half of the hop packet content in a tied hop bag leaving hops room to move around (Tie about half way up and cut off unused part.)

Take off heat and add HME can content, and LME bag content and stir until well mixed

Add to your LBK with 4 quarts water in it ("1" on new LBKs)

I find it easier to move the hop bag in with tongs first then pour the rest.

Fill to "8.5" or "2" mark with more cold water.

Stir to aerate and mix well.

sprinkle yeast on top

Put in cool area to ferment for 3 weeks. Low 60s preferred - but whatever you can do. If higher it maybe a bit more fruity.

2 weeks later ~ 5-7 days before the end, sterilize the 3rd hop bag (boiling water is OK)

Put rest of hops in the bag, tie it halfway, and cut off the rest.

Pop it in the LBK for the remaining days.

Bottle/prime and wait for 4-8 weeks

Try it and report back.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Thanks again, I will probably be there in a few months, just not yet. I really appreciate the encouragement and advice.

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1 hour ago, Nickfixit said:

@Broox  - This is not too difficult, it is within the scope of the MR Beer published recipes, and you can get all this stuff from Mr Beer or local home brew or mail order.

See if how it looks below. But if you are not confident try the new things one at a time. I would try the hop adds first to a batch of whatever you make  to get comfortable doing that, then the grain steeps. It is messing with the grain that is more time consuming and messy I think.

 

Mr Beer sells Flaked Corn and Cara 15 which will probably work in 4 oz. bags for ~ $0.50 each.

Combine that with a Czech Pilsener HME, and either 2 bags of smooth liquid malt (for really brown, sweet and caramelly) or a bag of smooth and a bag of pale liquid malt for not so brown, sweet and caramelly, and 1 oz of Tettnnger hops. You would need 3 hop bags too and the S-05 yeast

 

Disclaimer - this is a guess - I have not tried brewing this - lol. 

 

Ingredients

Czech Pilsener HME

4 oz flaked corn

4 oz Cara 15

either 1 Smooth LME and 1 Pale LME

or 2 Smooth LME

1 oz Tettnanger Hop pellets

S-05 yeast

3 hop bags

 

 

This won't work. Caramel malts have no enzymes, nor does corn. You will need an equal amount of 2-row to successfully convert the starches in the flaked corn. Anytime you use anything flaked, you need an equal amount of a diastatic malt for proper conversion. Otherwise you're just putting starch in your beer, which can promote infection. 

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4 hours ago, MRB Josh R said:

 

This won't work. Caramel malts have no enzymes, nor does corn. You will need an equal amount of 2-row to successfully convert the starches in the flaked corn. Anytime you use anything flaked, you need an equal amount of a diastatic malt for proper conversion. Otherwise you're just putting starch in your beer, which can promote infection. 

 

Excellent - thanks for correcting me Josh. I was not thinking of that. 

So then as Josh says, add in 4 oz of 2 row pale malt to match the flaked corn.

Here is Josh's write up that I should have looked at. So from this (below) the flaked corn requires 2 row pale malt addition, but Cara15 won't.

You could always try without the corn for simplicity and see how it is.

I have only used recipes with specialty malts ( I think) so far. 

 

No wait.

I did one steeped with 8 oz instant oats and 4 oz flaked wheat (I think it was flaked not malted) and no 2 row.  It is still fermenting. Hmm. I hope it will be OK, it has been foaming hugely since 6/8 and is just now settling down. Maybe the starch was preventing the bubbles from popping. Well it is due for bottling 6/30 so I will see. Hopefully it will not be infected, everything was at boiling point for 5 min before adding the liquid malts.

 

Or since it was a Belgian Wit - it may get real funky.

Or just be really creamy and cloudy.

 

Maybe it is safer just to put some 2 row in every grain mix.

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Broox said:

I still love ya, Nick!

LOL.

It is nice to have experts read and follow up, Thanks Josh!

That is the nice thing about this forum.

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I have had great success with pellet hops as nickfixit explains in his directions.

Does anyone use fresh hops harvested from the vine or grow their own hops?

 

I have family in Washington state where many hops are grown and wondering about fresh is best ingredients here.

Cheers

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Fresh hops require more than pellet hops and are often used for aroma.

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I hope this is what you meant by "goldings":

KINDLE_CAMERA_1464858592000.jpg

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Boiled those for ten minutes with an American lager and booster. Seemed like it went well, but I won't know for two months.

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I am going to try a hop I did not try before  - New Zealand KOHATU

Has anyone else tried this?

To make it simple, it is an aroma hop so I am just going to put 0.5 oz in at flameout in a CAL Deluxe. I might dry hop with the other 0.5 oz but not decided.

I might even reduce the malt by using 1x booster and stay with the 0.5 oz and no dry hop.

Since it is described as "intense" fruit I don't want to overdo it.

 

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8 hours ago, Nickfixit said:

I am going to try a hop I did not try before  - New Zealand KOHATU

Has anyone else tried this?

To make it simple, it is an aroma hop so I am just going to put 0.5 oz in at flameout in a CAL Deluxe. I might dry hop with the other 0.5 oz but not decided.

I might even reduce the malt by using 1x booster and stay with the 0.5 oz and no dry hop.

Since it is described as "intense" fruit I don't want to overdo it.

 

This may be the same hop that is in Northern Brewer's Island Hoppers IPA, but I'm not ? % sure.  

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3 hours ago, AnthonyC said:

This may be the same hop that is in Northern Brewer's Island Hoppers IPA, but I'm not ? % sure.  

Maybe not - This uses Pacific Jade. Another I did not try. And it says the Source is Midwest.

Clone recipe here:

http://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/120820/island-hopper-ipa

 

This has a comment on the hop flavor

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=431883

 

I looked at the Pacific Jade description and decided on Kohatu in preference. I was in a hurry and did not get a good look at the vendors site with has a lot of info on all their hops. Look at this and drool....... it is nice to see a lot  and be able to compare even with the details.

https://ychhops.com/varieties

 

 

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I haven't tried the Kohatu strain as it's fairly new and difficult to find locally, but I absolutely LOVE Pacific Jade. It's one of my favorite NZ hops. Some citrus, but a really nice peppery flavor. It goes great in saisons.

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1 hour ago, MRB Josh R said:

I haven't tried the Kohatu strain as it's fairly new and difficult to find locally, but I absolutely LOVE Pacific Jade. It's one of my favorite NZ hops. Some citrus, but a really nice peppery flavor. It goes great in saisons.

Interesting. Maybe I will try that next Saison.

My local store has a really good selection

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On ‎2016‎-‎06‎-‎20 at 6:24 PM, gophers6 said:

 

To me it means adding hops to the lbk after the most active phase of fermentation is over, like 4-7 days before bottling.

Works for me as well.  I don't like overwhelming hops, and just threw 4 or 5 pellets in.  Tasted really good with the American classic light that came with the kit, plus 1/2 lb LME and touch of honey.

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15 hours ago, Nickfixit said:

Interesting. Maybe I will try that next Saison.

My local store has a really good selection

Oh, I see what you did there!  Next Saison.... 

 

IMG_0115.JPG

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