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pearlmikejam

Help Creating a Pale Ale Recipe

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I am ready to brew another batch.  I have a can of the American Ale and want to use that as the base for a Pale Ale.  I also have a gift card to the local craft brew store that I am planning to use for this.

 

My initial thought is to do the following:

 

Steep 4 oz CaraPils for 30 minutes @ 155

 

Boil for 20 minutes with the following hop schedule

 

0.5 oz Falconers F 7C for 20 minutes

0.5 oz Simcoe for 10 minutes

1 oz dry hop with remaining hops not used in boil after 2 weeks

 

Remove from heat and add the American Ale HME, mix and add to the LBK.  Top with Wyeast AMERICAN ALE II - 1272 to ferment for 3 weeks, dry hopping after 14 days.

 

Here are my questions:

 

I am not sure the expected ABV for just a can of American Ale, but suspect I need something else to increase the ABV.  What is the best way to do that?  Should I get Pale LME from the local home brew store or can I simply use honey?  I would like to be in the 5%-6% range.

Is a 20 minute boil sufficient or does it need to be 30?  I have read differing opinions and am just trying to impart flavor.

Does the CaraPils add anything to the ABV?  I am using this to get rid of the "homebrew twang" that I am learning is common when using LME/HME.

 

Any other feedback?  Thanks in advance.

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Plug that into QBrew to figure out your ABV and IBUs.

You're going to have a pretty strong hop presence so you probably want to add some more grains to your steep. Maybe I'd switch out 2 ounces of the Carapils for 2 ounces of Crystal 10, add a couple ounces each of crystal 40 and maybe something like Vienna or Victory to give it some body. Yes those grains will add to the OG/ABV, but not nearly as much as extract. Don't use honey. Just don't. You don't want that harsh, dry, thin body against those big hops. Get some Golden LME or DME.

Here's a guideline if you don't run it through a calculator...1 lb DME plus 2.25 lb LME plus 1lb steeping grains should yield about 1.054 OG for a little less than 6% ABV. Your hop additions with just the wort from the steeping grains would yield almost 60 IBUs. Too much for your HME addition. Add the DME into the grain wort for the boil. That should knock it down to less than 30 and be about right with your HME. Another option would be to move the hops to 10 and 5 and keep all the extract at a late addition. 

Good luck.

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I vote on reducing hop boil time option. - Another option would be to move the hops to 10 and 5 and keep all the extract at a late addition. 

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Thanks for all the feedback.  Let me add another wrinkle... 

 

I have a Diablo hme. I was going to save that for another batch.   Would it be better to add that to the original recipe instead of playing with grain combinations and lme? 

 

Unfortunately, my computer is down, so I cannot download qbrew.  Is there something comparable for Android or online? 

 

That said, if I use the Diablo, should I still reduce the hop boil? My thought is that a longer flavor boil may be needed to overpower the hop combination in the two HMEs. Probably flawed thinking, but I thought I'd ask. 

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Brewer's Friend is a good free calculator. Also Brewtoad. 

Getting the amount of boil water right is key, too. You'll probably  be just fine with anything up to a gallon. I've done similar recipes with half gallon and some with more grains with 3/4 gallon. Definitely plug it all into a calculator. You have to guess at the IBU's in your HME additions, but you should be able to get the info from the Mr Beer site and add them up.

 

 

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Buy a 3/4 pound of 2 row malt, 1/2 pound of crystal 10 and steep with the Carapils at 150-155 for 30 minutes in a quart and a half of water. Then rinse the grains with a quart and a half of water at same temp to get a high enough gravity wort to boil the hops in. That should increase the utilization to let the hops sing. 

 

My opinion and my opinion only; I would switch the hop schedule to 0.5oz Simcoe for 20 0.5oz Simcoe for 7 and use the Falconers Flight 7C's for flame out and dry hop. Half an ounce at flameout and dry hop should be fine. Simcoe will give you some amazing flavor and aroma and the 7C's will let the finished brew shine...

 

I've had great success using FF7C's at flameout and dry hopping with my previous IPA's. So many aromas hit the olfactory nerve one could spend hours trying to pick out each. 

 

Cheers and happy brewing. 

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You know, there's a recipe already available with the Pale Ale refill that you can use as a template - L.E.O. Session IPA. All you have to do is gather whatever ingredients listed that you don't have on hand substitute the hops you have for the additions that are called for in the recipe (2 oz total). No guess work, instructions already laid out. It looks like a great recipe as is and it shoud be really good with the Simcoe and FF you have. Problem solved! ;)

http://www.mrbeer.com/leo-session-ipa-by-wavelength-brewery

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12 hours ago, sabres032 said:

Buy a 3/4 pound of 2 row malt, 1/2 pound of crystal 10 and steep with the Carapils at 150-155 for 30 minutes in a quart and a half of water. Then rinse the grains with a quart and a half of water at same temp to get a high enough gravity wort to boil the hops in. That should increase the utilization to let the hops sing. 

 

My opinion and my opinion only; I would switch the hop schedule to 0.5oz Simcoe for 20 0.5oz Simcoe for 7 and use the Falconers Flight 7C's for flame out and dry hop. Half an ounce at flameout and dry hop should be fine. Simcoe will give you some amazing flavor and aroma and the 7C's will let the finished brew shine...

 

I've had great success using FF7C's at flameout and dry hopping with my previous IPA's. So many aromas hit the olfactory nerve one could spend hours trying to pick out each. 

 

Cheers and happy brewing. 

I was thinking the exact same thing with the grains after doing a little research!  I am torn on the hops because I do like Simcoe for flavoring, but wanted to brew a basic Pale Ale to see what I can get out of Falconers.

 

5 minutes ago, J A said:

You know, there's a recipe already available with the Pale Ale refill that you can use as a template - L.E.O. Session IPA. All you have to do is gather whatever ingredients listed that you don't have on hand substitute the hops you have for the additions that are called for in the recipe (2 oz total). No guess work, instructions already laid out. It looks like a great recipe as is and it shoud be really good with the Simcoe and FF you have. Problem solved! ;)

http://www.mrbeer.com/leo-session-ipa-by-wavelength-brewery

 

I saw that and am basically trying to do that, but with grains instead of the Pale LME.  I am struggling to plug the recipe into brewersfriend.com because I am not sure what the LOVI is for the HME.

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Couple of things...unless you're doing all-grain and doing a mini mash, you'll do better just relying on the LME/DME for the bulk of the fermentables. I'd follow that recipe to the letter with the exception of the hop additions. I've actually done almost exactly that recipe with a partial mash of Maris Otter and a smaller addition of amber LME using Simcoe and Amarillo and I intend to do it again with FF. That's been one of my best batches so far, so you'll definitely come out with a good beer if you follow that recipe.

Also, for the color of the HME, just assume it's the same as the amber LME and count on it turning out darker. I'd use pilsner DME/LME with it if I was you.

 

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8 minutes ago, pearlmikejam said:

I was thinking the exact same thing with the grains after doing a little research!  I am torn on the hops because I do like Simcoe for flavoring, but wanted to brew a basic Pale Ale to see what I can get out of Falconers.

 

 

I saw that and am basically trying to do that, but with grains instead of the Pale LME.  I am struggling to plug the recipe into brewersfriend.com because I am not sure what the LOVI is for the HME.

 

 

This is a good site for hop varieties. 

 

http://ychhops.com/varieties

 

Here's another one I use. 

 

http://byo.com/resources/hops

 

If your looking for a pale ale skip the Simcoe and try 0.5oz FF7C at 20 and 0.5oz at flameout. That way you'll be able to judge just the FF7C, without the Simcoe masking any aroma and flavor and not have an intense IPA. 

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I'm venturing into all grain brewing, with small three gallon batches. One of my plans is to brew SMASH Ales (single malt single hop) just to see what different hops bring to a beer. 

 

I think I've also nailed down a pale ale base and then just change the hop schedule to what ever suits my tastes. I'll post that in the advanced recipe section. 

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Does this look right?  I am still deciding on the hops, but put this in as a placeholder.

 

Brew Method: Partial Mash
Style Name: American Pale Ale
Boil Time: 20 min
Batch Size: 2.1 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 3 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.011
Efficiency: 55% (brew house)


STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.049
Final Gravity: 1.013
ABV (standard): 4.72%
IBU (tinseth): 39.05
SRM (morey): 5.28

FERMENTABLES:
1 lb - American - Pale 2-Row (26.7%)
0.5 lb - American - Crystal 10L Millet Malt - Gluten Free (13.3%)
4 oz - American - Carapils (Dextrine Malt) (6.7%)
2 lb - American Ale HME - (late addition)  (53.3%)

HOPS:
0.5 oz - Falconers Flight 7C, Type: Pellet, AA: 10, Use: Boil for 20 min, IBU: 39.05
0.5 oz - Simcoe, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.7, Use: Boil for 0 min
0.5 oz - Falconers Flight 7C, Type: Pellet, AA: 10, Use: Dry Hop for 7 days
0.5 oz - Simcoe, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.7, Use: Dry Hop for 7 days

MASH GUIDELINES:
1) Temperature, Temp: 155 F, Time: 20 min, Amount: 1.5 qt

YEAST:
Wyeast - American Ale II 1272
Starter: No
Form: Liquid
Attenuation (avg): 74%
Flocculation: High
Optimum Temp: 60 - 72 F
Pitch Rate: 0.35 (M cells / ml / deg P)

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You have to change your boil size to reflect the actual amount of water you'll get after steeping/mashing. You can't start with 3 gallons and boil off almost a gallon in 20 minutes. Just make the boil size the amount of steep plus rinse. 

You won't get enough out of that 2-row to do you much good om terms of extracting in 20 minutes at 155. Just count on the grains adding some body and use LME/DME for fermentable. If it's Brewer's Friend you need to calculate it as an extract recipe with the grains in the steeping column. The conversion efficiency will be set at about 35% and will give you a better idea of what you'll get. If you're going to to partial mash, you need to mash, not steep, for as long as an hour and then do some sort of sparge to extract as much as possible.

You can do it the way you're thinking, but you have to start as an extract recipe to calculate effectively.

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Best advice I can give is brew it and see how it turns out. 

 

The recipe itself looks good but I'm a bit confused of the boil gravity number you posted.  Where did you figure a boil gravity of 1.011?

 

Edit: Never mind, JA answered my question above. 

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11 minutes ago, J A said:

You have to change your boil size to reflect the actual amount of water you'll get after steeping/mashing. You can't start with 3 gallons and boil off almost a gallon in 20 minutes. Just make the boil size the amount of steep plus rinse. 

You won't get enough out of that 2-row to do you much good om terms of extracting in 20 minutes at 155. Just count on the grains adding some body and use LME/DME for fermentable. If it's Brewer's Friend you need to calculate it as an extract recipe with the grains in the steeping column. The conversion efficiency will be set at about 35% and will give you a better idea of what you'll get. If you're going to to partial mash, you need to mash, not steep, for as long as an hour and then do some sort of sparge to extract as much as possible.

You can do it the way you're thinking, but you have to start as an extract recipe to calculate effectively.

Thanks!  I need to go back to the drawing board.  The numbers change every time I look at the site without me changing anything.  I need to learn how the calculator works.  I was expecting to be in the 4 to 5% ABV range and I am getting 2% now.  It seems like the HME should be at least 3%.

 

 

10 minutes ago, MRB Josh R said:

Why the millet malt?

That was a mistake.  I chose the wrong item from the drop down.

 

10 minutes ago, sabres032 said:

Best advice I can give is brew it and see how it turns out. 

 

The recipe itself looks good but I'm a bit confused of the boil gravity number you posted.  Where did you figure a boil gravity of 1.011?

I am getting to that point.  I just do not want it to be all a waste.  I am fine with it not having the best flavor, but I do not want to waste all this time to brew something that has no ABV.

 

Brewers Friend calculated everything.  I am still trying to figure out the calculator.

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Thanks again for all of the advice and help.  Does this look more accurate?

 

Brew Method: Extract
Style Name: American Pale Ale
Boil Time: 30 min
Batch Size: 2.1 gallons (fermentor volume)
Boil Size: 1 gallons
Boil Gravity: 1.092
Efficiency: 35% (steeping grains only)


STATS:
Original Gravity: 1.056
Final Gravity: 1.015
ABV (standard): 5.33%
IBU (tinseth): 18.79
SRM (morey): 9.92

FERMENTABLES:
2 lb - Liquid Malt Extract - Amber (34.8%)
2 lb - American Ale HME - (late addition)  (34.8%)

STEEPING GRAINS:
1 lb - American - Pale 2-Row (17.4%)
0.5 lb - American - Caramel / Crystal 10L (8.7%)
4 oz - American - Carapils (Dextrine Malt) (4.3%)

HOPS:
0.5 oz - Falconers Flight 7C, Type: Pellet, AA: 10, Use: Boil for 20 min, IBU: 18.79
0.5 oz - Simcoe, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.7, Use: Boil for 0 min
0.5 oz - Falconers Flight 7C, Type: Pellet, AA: 10, Use: Dry Hop for 7 days
0.5 oz - Simcoe, Type: Pellet, AA: 12.7, Use: Dry Hop for 7 days

YEAST:
Wyeast - American Ale II 1272
Starter: No
Form: Liquid
Attenuation (avg): 74%
Flocculation: High
Optimum Temp: 60 - 72 F
Pitch Rate: 0.35 (M cells / ml / deg P)

TARGET WATER PROFILE:
Profile Name: Balanced Profile
Ca2: 80
Mg2: 5
Na: 25
Cl: 75
SO4: 80
HCO3: 100
Water Notes:


Generated by Brewer's Friend - http://www.brewersfriend.com/

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The only refinements I'd make would be to use a golden or light LME because everything will be darker than you think. Also, the amber sometimes leaves some unfermentables in the wort and you'll need all the dry finish you can get with that much Crystal 10 and the Carapils.

I'd still move the Simcoe to the 20 minute boil because I'm a total fan of the particular rich, smooth, slightly dank bitterness that you get from Simcoe. Get a little more of that unique pine/mango Simcoe thing into the deeper flavor profile and then let the complex flavors of the FF blend take over in the aroma.

 

And you might as well us US-05 dry yeast. I'm not sure you'll be taking full advantage of the liquid yeast with a recipe like this. US-05 is a really good yeast and it's fool-proof for an LBK-sized batch. I usually pitch 1/2 a package and it ferments perfectly, but you could probably just use the whole thing if you don't want to save the other half.

 

And one last thing...you might as well increase your fermenter volume to 2 3/8 or so and use some of the extra capacity in the LBK. You may find that you'd rather top up a little more if your OG is a little high, anyway. Unless you're fermenting too warm, you're not going to over flow. I've put almost 2.5 gallons in LBKs to ferment and they have enough room. You're going to a lot of work...get a couple extra beers out of it.

 

Brew it up! :)

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1 hour ago, J A said:

The only refinements I'd make would be to use a golden or light LME because everything will be darker than you think. Also, the amber sometimes leaves some unfermentables in the wort and you'll need all the dry finish you can get with that much Crystal 10 and the Carapils.

I'd still move the Simcoe to the 20 minute boil because I'm a total fan of the particular rich, smooth, slightly dank bitterness that you get from Simcoe. Get a little more of that unique pine/mango Simcoe thing into the deeper flavor profile and then let the complex flavors of the FF blend take over in the aroma.

 

And you might as well us US-05 dry yeast. I'm not sure you'll be taking full advantage of the liquid yeast with a recipe like this. US-05 is a really good yeast and it's fool-proof for an LBK-sized batch. I usually pitch 1/2 a package and it ferments perfectly, but you could probably just use the whole thing if you don't want to save the other half.

 

And one last thing...you might as well increase your fermenter volume to 2 3/8 or so and use some of the extra capacity in the LBK. You may find that you'd rather top up a little more if your OG is a little high, anyway. Unless you're fermenting too warm, you're not going to over flow. I've put almost 2.5 gallons in LBKs to ferment and they have enough room. You're going to a lot of work...get a couple extra beers out of it.

 

Brew it up! :)

 

I agree with J A hops suggestion. Your beer will have a much greater flavor and aroma presence. SafAle US05 would be a great yeast to use, ferments very clean and you can pitch dry meaning; shorter brew day. 

 

@J A he might get away with 2.75 gallons with the 05 since the OG is only 1.059 without a blow over. I tried it once with the Nottingham yeast and wow, what a mess. 

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19 minutes ago, sabres032 said:

@J A he might get away with 2.75 gallons with the 05 since the OG is only 1.059 without a blow over. I tried it once with the Nottingham yeast and wow, what a mess. 

I'd push a little over 2 1/2 in primary, but anything over that might be a bit of an adventure. ;) 

As long as the pitch temp is 68 or so and fermenter temp is around 65 you could get away with almost no krausen. Only one way to find out! :D

 

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56 minutes ago, sabres032 said:

 

I agree with J A hops suggestion. Your beer will have a much greater flavor and aroma presence. SafAle US05 would be a great yeast to use, ferments very clean and you can pitch dry meaning; shorter brew day. 

 

@J A he might get away with 2.75 gallons with the 05 since the OG is only 1.059 without a blow over. I tried it once with the Nottingham yeast and wow, what a mess. 

 

38 minutes ago, J A said:

I'd push a little over 2 1/2 in primary, but anything over that might be a bit of an adventure. ;) 

As long as the pitch temp is 68 or so and fermenter temp is around 65 you could get away with almost no krausen. Only one way to find out! :D

 

Thanks for everything folks!  I like the yeast suggestion.  I wanted to try something different, but did not realize how different liquid yeast was.  I will add more to the batch.  I would like to get at least a case of beer out of this, which I have not gotten yet.  I lost some ABV.  What is the best way to bring that up?  More LME?

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54 minutes ago, pearlmikejam said:

 

Thanks for everything folks!  I like the yeast suggestion.  I wanted to try something different, but did not realize how different liquid yeast was.  I will add more to the batch.  I would like to get at least a case of beer out of this, which I have not gotten yet.  I lost some ABV.  What is the best way to bring that up?  More LME?

 

How many points were lost? If it's just .1 or .2 I wouldn't worry about it. You'd never notice the difference. 

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22 minutes ago, sabres032 said:

 

How many points were lost? If it's just .1 or .2 I wouldn't worry about it. You'd never notice the difference. 

I lose almost a full point. It goes from 5.7% down to 4.8% just by changing the batch size from 2.1 to 2.5.  I'd like to be around 5.5%.

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1 hour ago, pearlmikejam said:

I lost some ABV.  What is the best way to bring that up?  More LME?

Yes...

Also, you don't really know what you actual conversion efficiency will be on the grains. It defaults to 35%, I think, but I've gotten more. You could end up with better efficiency and not need much at all. Figure out how much more you need and add the extra LME with the HME. You could always plan for a batch size of 2.625. Top it to 2.5 in the LBK (it's best to measure water and pour it in and make a permanent mark at 2 1/2 gallons on the outside of the LBK). If it's over your OG, do some calculations and add the proper amount to get your desired OG and then use a sanitized dipper to take some back out. Or live dangerously and hope it doesn't overflow. :D 

Since you're topping up anyway, you have full control of the exact OG you want regardless of your grain efficiency.

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1 hour ago, pearlmikejam said:

I lose almost a full point. It goes from 5.7% down to 4.8% just by changing the batch size from 2.1 to 2.5.  I'd like to be around 5.5%.

 

That's strange for such a miniscule addition of water.  

 

If you have an Android device try downloading brewing assistant free from the play store. If not look at brewology101.com. Their software is pretty good for all extract, partial mash or all grain. That's what I've been using to create my own recipes for the past few months. Plus this app syncs between devices and PC so you never loos a recipe. 

 

It might also be available on iPhone but I really don't know now. 

 

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Or you can just brew the recipe as you created, measure OG, FG, bottle, condition and drink it like you own it. Don't let the numbers scare you. If it's what you want and tastes the way you want then it's all good. If not, document your process, steps, ingredients, initial boil volume, final boil volume, OG, time to ferment, FG then make just one adjustment and brew again. Keep with-it until you have what you are expecting. The first recipe may not be what you want or expect but, if you keep with, making small adjustments along the way, you will nail what you are expecting. 

 

That is the one downfall to homebrewing, dialing the process in and time to ferment and condition. Unfortunately it could take almost a year until you have a brew to call your own. Until then relax, brew on and drink your creations like a boss. 

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2 hours ago, sabres032 said:

 

That's strange for such a miniscule addition of water.  

 

If you have an Android device try downloading brewing assistant free from the play store. If not look at brewology101.com. Their software is pretty good for all extract, partial mash or all grain. That's what I've been using to create my own recipes for the past few months. Plus this app syncs between devices and PC so you never loos a recipe. 

 

It might also be available on iPhone but I really don't know now. 

 

Thanks for the top on the app.  Entering the ingredients in there yields a 5.9% brew.  I think the Mr beer hme is the wild card. 

2 hours ago, sabres032 said:

Or you can just brew the recipe as you created, measure OG, FG, bottle, condition and drink it like you own it. Don't let the numbers scare you. If it's what you want and tastes the way you want then it's all good. If not, document your process, steps, ingredients, initial boil volume, final boil volume, OG, time to ferment, FG then make just one adjustment and brew again. Keep with-it until you have what you are expecting. The first recipe may not be what you want or expect but, if you keep with, making small adjustments along the way, you will nail what you are expecting. 

 

That is the one downfall to homebrewing, dialing the process in and time to ferment and condition. Unfortunately it could take almost a year until you have a brew to call your own. Until then relax, brew on and drink your creations like a boss. 

I agree.  I need to order a hydrometer, so this will be a great excuse to get one and see how everything turns out. 

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I know i'm a bit primitive, but I dnt go all out on precision calculations and the sorts, and my beer has turned out pretty dam good

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2 hours ago, sabres032 said:

That's strange for such a miniscule addition of water.

 

Nearly a half gallon is a pig percentage in that small a batch.

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7 hours ago, J A said:

 

Nearly a half gallon is a pig percentage in that small a batch.

Oink

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9 hours ago, HoppySmile! said:

I know i'm a bit primitive, but I dnt go all out on precision calculations and the sorts, and my beer has turned out pretty dam good

I am not usually either, but this is my first experience with grain and I could not find any information on the American Ale HME.  All recipes use that HME with either a booster or LME, so I am not sure what sort of base I am starting with.

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Your recipe says you're steeping 1lb of 2-row. I may be mistaken, but I think you have to mash the 2-row to get anything out of it. I'd drop the 2-row completely - your other grains don't need to be converted, so you don't really need the 2-row. Keep the carapils & C10 for a straight steep, and dial up/down your fermentables with Pale LME.

 

And, more late addition hops - but that's just my preference.

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1 hour ago, 209Hill said:

I may be mistaken, but I think you have to mash the 2-row to get anything out of it.

 

The temp of 155 is mashing temperature. Steeping is not as efficient as mashing and sparging, but it's not fundamenally different from doing a BIAB mash. There'd be more grain and less water relative to the grain, but it's holding the grain at a certain temp that will allow the enzymes to work. Holding temp for a length of time is a little harder with steeping because the "mash" is mostly water, but it can be done. You're going to get at least a little conversion at that temperature. The thin nature of the mash means that the starches and the enzymes aren't held together as much as they would be in a drier, thicker mashing environment. That's why the conversion efficiency is usually assumed to be very low. A little sugar will be converted from the starches in the grain and sugar and dextrine will be leached out of the specialty grains.  BIAB brewers routinely mash at 2-3 quarts per lb and get high efficiency. Assuming  maybe a couple of quarts for steep (leaving the rest for rinsing and diluting the LME) his grist ratio is well within that.

 

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2 hours ago, pearlmikejam said:

I am not usually either, but this is my first experience with grain and I could not find any information on the American Ale HME.  All recipes use that HME with either a booster or LME, so I am not sure what sort of base I am starting with.

may I recommend maybe purchasing a partial mash recipe that Mr. Beer offers, it'll give u some idea working with grains/hops additions.

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2 hours ago, J A said:

 

The temp of 155 is mashing temperature. Steeping is not as efficient as mashing and sparging, but it's not fundamenally different from doing a BIAB mash. There'd be more grain and less water relative to the grain, but it's holding the grain at a certain temp that will allow the enzymes to work. Holding temp for a length of time is a little harder with steeping because the "mash" is mostly water, but it can be done. You're going to get at least a little conversion at that temperature. The thin nature of the mash means that the starches and the enzymes aren't held together as much as they would be in a drier, thicker mashing environment. That's why the conversion efficiency is usually assumed to be very low. A little sugar will be converted from the starches in the grain and sugar and dextrine will be leached out of the specialty grains.  BIAB brewers routinely mash at 2-3 quarts per lb and get high efficiency. Assuming  maybe a couple of quarts for steep (leaving the rest for rinsing and diluting the LME) his grist ratio is well within that.

 

Interesting on the close physical association of the grains. I suppose steeping grains in a bag, then, keeping them close together would emulate more the environment of a mash. What do you think?

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23 minutes ago, Nickfixit said:

Interesting on the close physical association of the grains. I suppose steeping grains in a bag, then, keeping them close together would emulate more the environment of a mash. What do you think?

 

The cellular and molecular geography in the process of mashing is a mystery beyond my reckoning at this point, but it seems that there's some advantage to the proximity of the enzymes and the molecules that they're working on. I've gotten pretty good conversion efficiency with steeping when it has a little base malt in it. Better than the 35% that my calculator defaults to. Though I guess it's been a little while since I did an extract/steeped recipe.

 

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OK, since we are into pale ales here, I think I want to try making an IPA and use up my HBC438 hops.

Will this work?

Base HME American Ale  ABV 3.5, IBU 36

So I have to up the ABV to around 6 and the IBU to around 60.

So I figure to add 8 oz Pale/light DME, 8 oz Smooth/Sparkling Amber DME, 4 oz of wheat DME and maybe 2 oz dark DME for complexity.

For hopping using the calculator online, I figure the following boils in the 4 cups water + 8 oz of DME before adding the rest.

Simcoe 0.5 oz for 10 min  --> 19.6 IBU

Citra      0.5 oz for 5 min -->   9.9 IBU

HBC438 0.5 oz flameout

Add rest of Extract and HME

Ferment in low to mid '60s with US-05 yeast.

HBC438 0.5 oz Dry hop last 5 days.

 

Does this sound drinkable?

Is this too much hop?

Too sweet?

 

 

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Two observations:

1)Skip the Dark LME. You'll end up with an Amber Ale and probably a pretty dark one at that. And skip the wheat, too...just sub the same quantity for Pale or even Pilsner LME. Keep to the slightly dry end of the extract range.

2) Keep the US-05 up around 65 degrees. It's probably fine a little lower, but I did a blonde at around 62 degrees and it came out with a distinct fruity/peach ester - something it does at that temp, apparently. It's not unpleasant at all and might go beautifully with those hops, but it'll probably be a better beer if the yeast stays out of the way.

 

You'll have good hop presence with the Simcoe and Citra. I don't know what your other hop is like, but if it's at all fruit/citrus/tropical or even a little spice/floral, I bet it'll play off of that combination very well.

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Thanks for the input.

OK well I THOUGHT I had an American Ale but....nooo.  :-/

 

OK so I can use a base HME of CAL, Aztek, American Lager, or NW Pale.

NW Pale has higher IBU but is darker.

I am leaning towards the American Lager, but at IBU of 17,  I need another 20 IBU - compared to American Ale  for a total add of >43 IBU

(Aztek or CAL will be a lighter base so would need even more IBU )

 

So with the same process, I guess I can just add more time to the Simcoe hop boil .

 

From the calculator that looks like -

Simcoe 0.5 oz for 15 min = 29.3 IBU

Citra     0.5 oz  for 5 min  = 9.6 IBU

Total ~ 40 IBU, probably enough. 

Keeping the HBC438 as Flameout and Dry hop.

 

The writeup for HBC438 says

"The first hop ever released exclusively for homebrewers, HBC 438 is an experimental variety of neomexicanus that is openly pollinated and native to North America. Expect prominent tropical and stone fruits, herbal, spicy, a subtle cedar note in the aroma alongside a dose of good will—all proceeds go directly to finding a cure for ALS."
 

 

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3 hours ago, Nickfixit said:

Expect prominent tropical and stone fruits, herbal, spicy, a subtle cedar note in the aroma

 

Very interesting! I'll have to look into that.

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Seems like you're on the right track. If you use the Lager HME, it'll probably be lighter in body so I'd rethink the LME/DME and probably do an even balance of Light and Amber in combination with that one. Still skip the dark, though.

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On ‎6‎/‎24‎/‎2016 at 11:30 PM, J A said:

Seems like you're on the right track. If you use the Lager HME, it'll probably be lighter in body so I'd rethink the LME/DME and probably do an even balance of Light and Amber in combination with that one. Still skip the dark, though.

Good thoughts.

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On 6/24/2016 at 7:21 PM, Nickfixit said:

Thanks for the input.

OK well I THOUGHT I had an American Ale but....nooo.  :-/

 

OK so I can use a base HME of CAL, Aztek, American Lager, or NW Pale.

NW Pale has higher IBU but is darker.

I am leaning towards the American Lager, but at IBU of 17,  I need another 20 IBU - compared to American Ale  for a total add of >43 IBU

(Aztek or CAL will be a lighter base so would need even more IBU )

 

So with the same process, I guess I can just add more time to the Simcoe hop boil .

 

From the calculator that looks like -

Simcoe 0.5 oz for 15 min = 29.3 IBU

Citra     0.5 oz  for 5 min  = 9.6 IBU

Total ~ 40 IBU, probably enough. 

Keeping the HBC438 as Flameout and Dry hop.

 

The writeup for HBC438 says

"The first hop ever released exclusively for homebrewers, HBC 438 is an experimental variety of neomexicanus that is openly pollinated and native to North America. Expect prominent tropical and stone fruits, herbal, spicy, a subtle cedar note in the aroma alongside a dose of good will—all proceeds go directly to finding a cure for ALS."
 

 

I like the idea of just Citra with Simcoe.  I think I will go that route.  I may do the Citra for 15 and the Simcoe at flameout.

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On 6/24/2016 at 8:48 AM, 209Hill said:

Your recipe says you're steeping 1lb of 2-row. I may be mistaken, but I think you have to mash the 2-row to get anything out of it. I'd drop the 2-row completely - your other grains don't need to be converted, so you don't really need the 2-row. Keep the carapils & C10 for a straight steep, and dial up/down your fermentables with Pale LME.

 

And, more late addition hops - but that's just my preference.

 

@Josh R posted this in he advanced brewing techniques Steping and mashing grains and this Diastatic power - what is it? Both are great reads before venturing into brewing with grains. 

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If the American Ale HME is 3.5% ABV for a 2 gallon batch, is it safe to say it is ~2.8% for a 2.5 gallon batch?  I want to make sure I do not overdo it with LME to boost the ABV.

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@pearlmikejam I would have to say at this point just pick a recipe you are comfortable with and brew it. Spending all this time second guessing and refining is not productive. Until you brew it and taste it you have no clue what changes you need to make. Believe me, I spent months trying to create and perfect an IPA recipe. I made many changes even before I bought the ingredients then the epiphany hit me. Just brew it. Now I know what changes I need to make for the next batch. And you know what? I brewed beer and drank it. 

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15 minutes ago, sabres032 said:

@pearlmikejam I would have to say at this point just pick a recipe you are comfortable with and brew it. Spending all this time second guessing and refining is not productive. Until you brew it and taste it you have no clue what changes you need to make. Believe me, I spent months trying to create and perfect an IPA recipe. I made many changes even before I bought the ingredients then the epiphany hit me. Just brew it. Now I know what changes I need to make for the next batch. And you know what? I brewed beer and drank it. 

@sabres032 you are absolutely right.  I did the same thing with my first batch of Mr Beer.  You would think I would learn by now.

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I just want to find out what a lot of HBC438 tastes like so I am putting that in too. I also got some grain to help with the texture. Probably start it off tomorrow.

 

Then on 30th make a another Mandarin citrous wit using half the WLP400 trub from the Wit I will bottle then, but a little more of the Mandarina Bavaria hops.

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13 minutes ago, Nickfixit said:

I just want to find out what a lot of HBC438 tastes like so I am putting that in too. I also got some grain to help with the texture. Probably start it off tomorrow.

 

Then on 30th make a another Mandarin citrous wit using half the WLP400 trub from the Wit I will bottle then, but a little more of the Mandarina Bavaria hops.

 

Try a SMASH Ale with light or golden LME and the HBC438 hops. That way no other hops will be masking the flavor and aroma. Should be a quick, easy, inexpensive beer that should be ready in about four weeks. 

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5 hours ago, pearlmikejam said:

If the American Ale HME is 3.5% ABV for a 2 gallon batch, is it safe to say it is ~2.8% for a 2.5 gallon batch?  I want to make sure I do not overdo it with LME to boost the ABV.

 

According to my recipe calculator that's about right. It totally depends on the OG and the attenuation of the yeast, though. 

If you. If you do a 2.5 gallon batch with a can of HME that's giving you that ABV and add 1.5 to 2 lbs of LME, you'll be right in the range for a decent APA - OG of 1.051 to 1.058, ABV of 5 to 5.6%.

Again, it depends on the yeast. Ale yeasts tend to attenuate extracts pretty well, but different strains do better than others.

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Good idea. However I don't think I am into doing a total long hop boil yet though. I might superimpose various things on a CAL or Aztek I have a bunch of those.

 

So this would not be a SMASH but a HMESH?

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2 hours ago, sabres032 said:

 

Try a SMASH Ale with light or golden LME and the HBC438 hops. That way no other hops will be masking the flavor and aroma. Should be a quick, easy, inexpensive beer that should be ready in about four weeks. 

Good idea. However I don't think I am into doing a total long hop boil yet though. I might superimpose various things on a CAL or Aztek I have a bunch of those.

 

So this would not be a SMASH but a HMESH?

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Six pounds of LME, one or two ounces of hops and a couple hours invested for a trash ale, to see what the hops bring is a small investment for science. 

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