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rsnake2

"Stuff" floating in keg...

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Was out of town and my beer sat in the keg an extra 2 weeks. Five weeks total. First try with Weissbier. I have stuff floating in the keg and am hesitant to bottle. The pic shows bluish but it is more like brown and tan. Please help!

20170417_194556.jpg

Edited by rsnake2
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@rsnake2.....Put the lid back on carefully (if you havent already) and gently set the LBK in your fridge.  I am no expert.... this could be as simple as yeast/krausen rafts (harmless of course... just try not to bottle them) to a possible infection... @RickBeer, @MRB Josh R, @Shrike, @Bonsai & Brew, @Bach's Brews , @MRB Tim........ these guys might be better suited to tell you what it might really be.... (there are several others too... just cant think of them all...lol)

 

A couple questions though....

Was this cold crashed? (meaning after fermentation did you place it in your fridge for 2-3 days for stuff to settle to bottom and help clear out the beer)

Did you follow proper sanitation practices? (Be honest here... aint no shame in admitting you missed a step)

What temperature has the LBK been in and at? (do you have a stick on thermometer on the LBK to monitor wort temp?.... if not... i would recommend one)

 

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Lbk was clean..star sanitized. Kept in my pantry in texas, around 72°. Left in keg 5-6 weeks. I am a newbie, 5 batches with no issues. I have never cold crashed.

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if floaty bits were brownish or brown tan/green I would say it was normal krausen clumps or yeast rafts.  oily bits I would say were likely hop oil.  normally you get some oxidation of the krausen once things die down and the floaty bits get dark.  us04 yeast loves to leave behind rafts of yeast on top that can pick up an almost orange look.

 

since the floaty bits look stark white in the photo  I think rick might be right.  to me it looks like it might be forming a pellicle.  it's not the grey filmy snot bubbles of lactobacillus.

 

since it tastes like beer, cold crash. check your gravity. it should be about 1.01 assuming you didn't add lactose.   bottle it .. give it two weeks to carb and start drinking it. wheat beers don't require lots of aging. I find them more tasty early.

 

when you open a bottle be prepared in case you get a gusher.  sniff the beer. does it smell like vinegar? if it smells like beer take a sip and hold it. does it burn? does it taste like vinegar or poop?  if so.. sadly it was in fact infected.  if it tastes like beer.. no mold taste... youre good.  if it is sour it might have picked up a little lacto bug. you can add something like tang drink mix to the glass to sweeten it.. not the bottle.

 

hard to tell from a pic without being there to see it.   the pic shows stark white stuff. you say its more tan.

 

warning...  while not as common today as in old days,  yeast autolysis from dying yeast cells can contribute off flavors to your beer.  the cells start to die and rupture. the living yeast eat the dead yeast and pee out stuff that taste like burned rubber and bread yeast.  ive gone 4 weeks in the fermenter before on a stout without issues.

 

 

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one problem you might have if the beer is drinkable.. green apple taste like cider.  your pantry temperature was 72f.  fermentation produces heat.. around 5-15 degrees f depending on how vigorous it was.  this means your ale yeast was doing its thing around 77f or higher.  waaaaay too hot.  high temps make esters because you are stressing the yeast out.  your ambient air temp for the typical ale yeast is around 64f.  watch your fermentation temps  and use an ice chest with a bottle of ice to control them.

 

don't be surprised if you taste this batch when done and go ick. it tastes like apple juice.  between poor temp control and the extra 2 weeks on the lees I would not be shocked if it comes out tasting really bad.  just don't blame mr beer.   . . and don't give up.

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Yeah, this definitely fermented at too high of a temperature.  I did that with my first batch and it had a green cider taste.  Trust us when we say, don't give up!  We've all made mistakes and that's the fun part of making your own beer, you learn to make things better.  Whether it's your process of doing things more efficiently or learning what NOT to do for next time. DON'T GIVE UP!  Bottle it and let it condition for awhile, who knows maybe you made a great sour beer.  You won't really know until it's conditioned for awhile in bottles to truly taste and see for yourself.  As long as YOU enjoy it, that's what matters!

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That is definitely the beginning of a lacto infection. I would recommend replacing the LBK with a new one. Or you can try bleaching it and rinsing well, but I wouldn't risk another batch with it personally, when LBKs are only $10. 

 

Crash it and bottle it ASAP. Though you might want to consider using different bottles, too.

 

 

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if the lbk isn't scratched up inside, bleach would likely fix a lacto.  lactobacillus is everywhere anyway.  that's what makes fermenting vegetables in salt water work.  its on your skin.. in the air... in veggies... everywhere.

 

wash it.. sanitize it. rinse thoroughly.. dry thoroughly.  I wouldn't toss it til I got a second bad result. 

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Keep in mind that EVERY batch of beer you make is infected or contaminated in some way on a very small scale. In most cases, it's so minor that you simply can't perceive it or it shows no perceptible symptoms of contamination/infection. But until you have a completely closed system like an actual brewery would, you will almost always have some sort of minor infection in your beer. The trick is to minimize it as much as possible so you can't tell it's there.

 

Fortunately, it takes lactobacillus a long tome to actually sour your beer. You would have to let it sit for months before you would get any perceptible sour taste. This is why many sour beers on the market are more expensive than their sanitized counterparts- it takes a long time to make. Usually, when your fermentation is infected with lacto, you won't taste it until months after bottling. So I recommend going easy on the aging of this beer and try to consume it within a few months if you want to prevent the sour flavor from emerging. Because once your beer is infected with lacto, there is no reversing it so drink it sooner rather than later.

 

Also, sometimes lacto infections can become tasty accidents if you're into sour beers. ;)

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On 4/18/2017 at 9:41 AM, MRB Josh R said:

That is definitely the beginning of a lacto infection. I would recommend replacing the LBK with a new one. Or you can try bleaching it and rinsing well, but I wouldn't risk another batch with it personally, when LBKs are only $10. 

 

Crash it and bottle it ASAP. Though you might want to consider using different bottles, too.

 

 

 

@MRB Josh R -

 

How do you know? What are you seeing that leads you say that is a lacto infection as opposed to just yeast cakes?

 

And based on you later statements regarding we are all infected #walkingdead....

Was this a result of allowing the beer to sit in the LBK an extra 2 weeks......or based on everything was this just fate?

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49 minutes ago, MrWhy said:

 

@MRB Josh R -

 

How do you know? What are you seeing that leads you say that is a lacto infection as opposed to just yeast cakes?

 

And based on you later statements regarding we are all infected #walkingdead....

Was this a result of allowing the beer to sit in the LBK an extra 2 weeks......or based on everything was this just fate?

 

The jagged edges of the white pieces with their "broken ice sheet" look indicate that they were part of a film, or "pellicle" that is only created by bacterial or wild yeast infections. When you move the fermenter, the film breaks up into these jagged pieces. You can see the yeast "rafts", which are the more yellowish rounded blobs, especially noticeable in the bottom right of the photo. I've brewed enough sour beers to know a broken pellicle when I see one.

 

And yes, it most likely happened by letting it sit for too long. Since fermentation was done, the Co2 will off-gas leaving the surface exposed to oxygen and bacteria, and bacteria love oxygen.

 

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Here's an image of a more advanced pellicle from a similar infection. Fortunately, @rsnake2, you caught yours before it got too advanced.

 

6y4QyJl.jpg

 

 

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1 hour ago, MRB Josh R said:

 

The jagged edges of the white pieces with their "broken ice sheet" look indicate that they were part of a film, or "pellicle" that is only created by bacterial or wild yeast infections. When you move the fermenter, the film breaks up into these jagged pieces. You can see the yeast "rafts", which are the more yellowish rounded blobs, especially noticeable in the bottom right of the photo. I've brewed enough sour beers to know a broken pellicle when I see one.

 

And yes, it most likely happened by letting it sit for too long. Since fermentation was done, the Co2 will off-gas leaving the surface exposed to oxygen and bacteria, and bacteria love oxygen.

 

 

Wow.

 

You are like the Guns and Roses of brewing........I don't even understand what you are saying/doing....but I know it is amazing.....

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Thank you sir! That is exactly what I have. Time to clean well and start over. I guess that I learned a good lesson. Shame I ruined my first wheat beer. Should I just replace the LBK? I have 2 so I can still brew.

Edited by rsnake2
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now THOSE are definitely lacto! 

 

rsnake see above.. .wash lbk, rinse with bleach solution.. try another batch.   your wheat beer might actually taste good.  wheat beers are naturally a little tart so the 'sour' if any a lacto infection might give it and the apple cider esters of too hot fermentation... might actually work!!! 

 

only way to know... bottle it. age it. try it. who knows? you might actually find it awesome...

 

josh.. didn't see those jagged bits in the original photo til you pointed it out. yep...  it was forming or had formed a partial pellicle.

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14 hours ago, rsnake2 said:

Thank you sir! That is exactly what I have. Time to clean well and start over. I guess that I learned a good lesson. Shame I ruined my first wheat beer. Should I just replace the LBK? I have 2 so I can still brew.

 

You can give it a good bleach rinse and it should be fine. Just remember not to leave your beer out longer than 3 weeks. Your wheat beer probably isn't ruined. The pellicle is young and the beer probably tastes fine. Like I said above, it can sometimes take a long time before you can taste the infection in the beer. This usually happens after it's been in the bottle for awhile. So bottle your beer and consume it within a couple of months. I'd personally leave a couple out for several months to see what they do, but that's only because I love sour beers. lol

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Hehehe ! Had to dump the brew and trash the LBK...

Rookie mistake :-(

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4 hours ago, HoppySmile! said:

and I thought I was flying over Anartica there for a moment, Whew!

 

Hoppy's back, I'll drink to that!

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Hoppy beat you to it, already drank to it for the entire forum...

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I know this isn't the best picture as it's through the lid of the brewmax while cold crashing. Is this an infection? I've never seen this before. I've seen stuff floating at the top before but usually drops out by the time I cold crash. 

20180722_011343.jpg

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Sanitizing Ratio: 1 tablespoon of bleach to 1 gallon of cool water. Contact Time: Let stand for 2 minutes, then wipe or air dry.

 

Disinfecting Ratio: 1/4 (minimum) to 3/4 (maximum) cup of bleach to 1 gallon of cool water or 1 table- spoon (minimum) to 3 table- spoons (maximum) of bleach to 1 quart of water.

 

Use the Sanitizing Ratio.  Rinse very well after sanitizing.

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On 7/22/2018 at 12:08 AM, youdontknowme311 said:

I know this isn't the best picture as it's through the lid of the brewmax while cold crashing. Is this an infection? I've never seen this before. I've seen stuff floating at the top before but usually drops out by the time I cold crash. 

20180722_011343.jpg

I had a batch do something similar. I was sure I had an infection and it was spoiled. Bottled it anyway and it has turned out to be one of my best brews. Did this show up right after you dry hopped by any chance?

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@dale hihn I actually didn't do a dry hop for this one. I noticed it after 10 days or so and I thought to myself it sorta just looks like yeast but never seen it look like that. So naturally I started to worry lol

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On 7/22/2018 at 4:15 AM, Fire Rooster said:

What would be the bleach to water ratio for the solution/rinse ?

 

@BDawg62 beat me to it.

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On 7/21/2018 at 11:08 PM, youdontknowme311 said:

I know this isn't the best picture as it's through the lid of the brewmax while cold crashing. Is this an infection? I've never seen this before. I've seen stuff floating at the top before but usually drops out by the time I cold crash. 

20180722_011343.jpg

 

The color makes me think that it's not an infection. But it could also be your lighting. If you're feeling adventurous, skim a bit off the top with a sanitized spoon and taste it (don't worry, it won't hurt you). If it's tart or really funky, it's probably an infection. If it's very yeasty or just tastes like beer, it's probably just yeast rafts.

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@MRB Josh R Yeah the lighting in the picture sucks. I bottled it this morning and it was like a off white color, the same color as the trub so I'm thinking it was just yeast rafts as you mentioned. I didn't even think to taste it. Thanks Josh!

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