what chemistry help

[zorak1066 1,464]

2.75 gal batch  (blondish)

 

4.5# 2 row

.5# flaked oats

.5# flaked barley

1.5 oz acidulated malt

 

.25 oz palisade pellet hop 60min

.5 oz palisade pellet hop 15 min

 

mash 152f   1.75 gallons,   3.5 gallon sparge

strike 165f

 

water profile 1 -   Ca  57 ppm,   Mg 6.3 ppm,   Na  5 ppm,  Cl  9ppm,     SO4 21 ppm      Alk  140  (caco3 ppm)   PH 7.8

 

water 2 - Purified water,  approx ph 6-7?

 

 

 

sparge water will be 50% purified water / 50% spring water

 

i used ez water spreadsheet making additions to both mash and sparge...

 

mash:  gypsum  .5 g,    CaCl  1g      ,   Epsom salt  .5 g

 

sparge:  gypsum .5 g      CaCl  1g      epsom  .5 g

 

i get a RA of -128

mash ph estimate at room temp of 5.58

 

chloride to sulfate ration of .88 - balanced.

 

for the purposes of the grain bill i considered the oat and barley as base malt.

 

 

does this sound about right?  i have a devil of a time with light ales when i do all grain... i havent done that many over the last year so i'm still trying to get my head around things. my last light ale all grain batch had an slightly sharp taste that i attributed to too much calcium chloride.   think pickley..

 

your thoughts?  if i use 50/50 spring and purified water for the mash too i can lower my acidulated malt and not that much changes except the ratio goes up to about 95 - still balanced.

 

 

[Creeps McLane 7,437]

Im no expert at all. But one thing i do know is that too much of one thing is bad. It looks like everything is in nice low doses. Give it a try!

[Nickfixit 4,033]

Won't the acidulated malt add a sharp acid taste (pickle?).

I am not sure why you need that. If this comes out pickley too I would try it without.

[Creeps McLane 7,437]

4 minutes ago, Nickfixit said:

Won't the acidulated malt add a sharp acid taste (pickle?).

I am not sure why you need that. If this comes out pickley too I would try it without.

The acidulated malt helps lower the pH. The gypsum and CaCl will also do that but with gypsum you can have too high of a sulfate level and the CaCl can give you too much calcium. I think. Im just starting to read on this. I kinda thought for my own brewing to start with low additions and focus on the pH more than anything. Im staying away from acidulated malt for now. BeerSmith has a calculator for pH but its all adding acids and im not ready for that yet. 

 

One thing i have learned: “DONT BUY 5.2 MASH STABILIZER”. Its trash. Junk. Advertised as a miracle fix all additive. I used it in a lager and i can taste the salt it contributed. Not very pleased. 

[hotrod3539 912]

49 minutes ago, Creeps McLane said:

 One thing i have learned: “DONT BUY 5.2 MASH STABILIZER”. Its trash. Junk. Advertised as a miracle fix all additive. I used it in a lager and i can taste the salt it contributed. Not very pleased. 

 

Interesting... I have a container of it, used it in one AG batch so far (mainly because i kept forgetting about it) and It did do as advertised it set the PH at 5.2 and i did not get any off flavors from it...... ( it was in my last batch of Bleeding Buckeye added it right after i dropped in the grains))

[Creeps McLane 7,437]

12 minutes ago, hotrod3539 said:

 

Interesting... I have a container of it, used it in one AG batch so far (mainly because i kept forgetting about it) and It did do as advertised it set the PH at 5.2 and i did not get any off flavors from it...... ( it was in my last batch of Bleeding Buckeye added it right after i dropped in the grains))

Grains will lower your pH. Different grains do different things but they surely do lower it. I added 2 teaspoons for a 10 gallon batch in the HLT. That couldve been it. I do think it could do as advertised but I don’t think it lowers the pH any, itll just lock it in. I added a tsp, measured, no difference. Added another tsp, measured, And there was a change. I wasnt at 5.2 but i was closer.

 

ive done a lot of reading on it and most people think its a joke. I saw a YouTube video where a guy added it and said “cant forget this stuff! Its amazing” and i wanted to punch him in the face 🤜🏻 👱🏼‍♂️

[hotrod3539 912]

12 minutes ago, Creeps McLane said:

Grains will lower your pH. Different grains do different things but they surely do lower it. I added 2 teaspoons for a 10 gallon batch in the HLT. That couldve been it. I do think it could do as advertised but I don’t think it lowers the pH any, itll just lock it in. I added a tsp, measured, no difference. Added another tsp, measured, And there was a change. I wasnt at 5.2 but i was closer.

 

ive done a lot of reading on it and most people think its a joke. I saw a YouTube video where a guy added it and said “cant forget this stuff! Its amazing” and i wanted to punch him in the face 🤜🏻 👱🏼‍♂️

 

hmmm the instructions on my container say 1 Tablespoon/5 gallons. I looked back at my notes and first batch was at a ph of 6.8, second batch (with the stabalizer) was 5.2 on the nose. mind you i took the readings right before mash out so i dont know if that skewed the results any. I will keep experimenting and see if i get anything different in future batches. (and get pre mash in ph reading)

[Creeps McLane 7,437]

1 minute ago, hotrod3539 said:

 

hmmm the instructions on my container say 1 Tablespoon/5 gallons. I looked back at my notes and first batch was at a ph of 6.8, second batch (with the stabalizer) was 5.2 on the nose. mind you i took the readings right before mash out so i dont know if that skewed the results any. I will keep experimenting and see if i get anything different in future batches. (and get pre mash in ph reading)

Hmmm, did i use a tsp or a tbsp... either way its salty. Keep me posted cuz i have a full jar going to waste otherwise

[zorak1066 1,464]

acidulated malt is in fact a way to lower ph. the problem with water chemistry on lighter beers it seems, is that it takes lots of additions to bring the ph into balance and the chloride/sulfate ratio to balance.   adding chemicals adds sometimes unwanted flavors.  unless you luck into living in a place with the ultimate natural well water you have to become a chemist.  i try to do the 'less is more' approach.  the spreadsheet helps but trying to find that balance is like pulling teeth sometimes.  an adjustment here impacts something there. add a little there to balance the here, and something else gets wonky.

 

by mixing spring water and ro water i can get the numbers closer to where they need to be on lighter beers... without tons of chemicals.. but it's still a pain.

 

up to 2% of your grain bill with acid malt and youre fine.

[Nickfixit 4,033]

I do not use all grain but sometimes I do dilute the county water with distilled to get lighter mineral content - just for taste.

Does anything strike you from these numbers?

 

We are at 

Alkalinity (only Bicarb - others =0)  annual avg 86

Chloride  avg  25

Calcium avg 92

Sulphate  avg 41

Sodium   not stated.

Hardness avg 129

Solids avg 211

pH 7.3

 

 

 

[zorak1066 1,464]

mineral content , ph etc is only really important for all grain brewing.  in general, if the water tastes good then it's great for brewing extracts. any minerals and nutrients the yeast need are usually found in the wort.  in all grain, mineral content effects ph balance. if your ph is out of whack, you mash wont be as efficient as it could be. 

 

if you get into all grain theres a couple spreadsheets that will help... one is ezwater. another i think is brunwater. brewers friend has a water calculator. you plug in your starting water profile, your grain bill, and then play with chemical additions until you find the balance you want.