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This is what your mash pH should be to maximize amylase enzymatic efficiency, reduce astringency, improve clarity, increase hop utilization and prevent off-flavors. I have never measured mine.  Cheers.B)

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7 hours ago, Bonsai & Brew said:

This is what your mash pH should be to maximize amylase enzymatic efficiency, reduce astringency, improve clarity, increase hop utilization and prevent off-flavors. I have never measured mine.  

Lol, they have fancy and expensive spring water at the store with the ph printed on the label. My spring water is down two shelves and costs 75% less.

My mash seems happy enough. ;)

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3 hours ago, Cato said:

Lol, they have fancy and expensive spring water at the store with the ph printed on the label. My spring water is down two shelves and costs 75% less.

My mash seems happy enough. ;)

 

Going forward, I'll be diluting my well water 1:1 with R/O water from my workplace -- gotta get my residual alkalinity down! 

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Just now, Bonsai & Brew said:

 

Going forward, I'll be diluting my well water 1:1 with R/O water from my workplace -- gotta get my residual alkalinity down! 

 

Stealing water from work?  🤯

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4 minutes ago, RickBeer said:

 

Stealing water from work?  🤯

Shhhhhhh. LOL. 

@Bonsai & Brew, I use Wally's bottled spring water at $0.88/ gallon and an acid rest while mashing. Using ph strips to measure, I've always been in the range of 5.3 to 5.4 without making any chemical alterations to the water.

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2 hours ago, Bonsai & Brew said:

 

Going forward, I'll be diluting my well water 1:1 with R/O water from my workplace -- gotta get my residual alkalinity down! 

That residual alkalinity might be the signature award winning ingredient for Stauhaus Biers!

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Are you seeking a higher efficiency or is it to see if you detect a slight change or improvement  in taste? It will be interesting to see what the results will be.

 

I've been seeking a bit better grain conversion with my BIAB because my crush from suppliers leaves a lot of grain intact.

 

I've had a few wild swings in conversion, so I got the grain mill and will see what I get on a single crush and a double crush. Extra work for sure but I already feel better about having control over that aspect.

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2 hours ago, Cato said:

Are you seeking a higher efficiency or is it to see if you detect a slight change or improvement  in taste? It will be interesting to see what the results will be.

 

I've been seeking a bit better grain conversion with my BIAB because my crush from suppliers leaves a lot of grain intact.

 

I've had a few wild swings in conversion, so I got the grain mill and will see what I get on a single crush and a double crush. Extra work for sure but I already feel better about having control over that aspect.

 

Mash pH is something that I have not paid a lot of attention to and figured it's time to start tweaking my mash-in-sack process.  Improved efficiency would certainly be the prime objective but I'm also curious how/if maintaining the proper mash pH affects the finished beer.  I feel like I'm starting over with my all-grain evolution, but that is the price of progress. :)

 

Also, I've been playing around with the idea of brewing classic styles using appropriate water profiles.  I've known for awhile that my water is naturally well suited for Munich Dunkel, Schwarzbier, etc., but because of high alkalinity/bicarbonate, I'll need to dilute that out before building other profiles with brewing salts.  Like you suggested, we may as well control what we can in our brew process and hope for better beer!         

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On 11/5/2018 at 9:15 PM, Bonsai & Brew said:

This is what your mash pH should be to maximize amylase enzymatic efficiency, reduce astringency, improve clarity, increase hop utilization and prevent off-flavors.

 

Not to mention having a clearer complexion, brighter smile, and fuller hair!

 

🤣

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@Bonsai & Brew was reading some on water profiles and PH today. Looked into getting a ph meter but was not sold on the reviews on most of the portables concerning their accuracy and reliability . I've only used a benchtop model and those get pricey, even the replaceable probes were pricey, at least for the lab model we used.

However I did order a lb of 5.2 stabilizer today. How well it works, I'll have to see. Course I'll need to find an affordable meter to measure its effectiveness. 1 tablespoon added to your mash water is supposed to correct it's ph to 5.2. Larger batches, like 6gal, some say require up to 3tbs.

Might be a gimmick product but for $17 and change I'll check it out.

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1 hour ago, Cato said:

@Bonsai & Brew was reading some on water profiles and PH today. Looked into getting a ph meter but was not sold on the reviews on most of the portables concerning their accuracy and reliability . I've only used a benchtop model and those get pricey, even the replaceable probes were pricey, at least for the lab model we used.

However I did order a lb of 5.2 stabilizer today. How well it works, I'll have to see. Course I'll need to find an affordable meter to measure its effectiveness. 1 tablespoon added to your mash water is supposed to correct it's ph to 5.2. Larger batches, like 6gal, some say require up to 3tbs.

Might be a gimmick product but for $17 and change I'll check it out.

 

I've been getting by with pH paper but need to look into that 5.2 stabilizer.  For my 2 gallon batches, a lb. of that would last a lifetime.  Let us know what you think of it.

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36 minutes ago, Bonsai & Brew said:

 

I've been getting by with pH paper but need to look into that 5.2 stabilizer.  For my 2 gallon batches, a lb. of that would last a lifetime.  Let us know what you think of it.

Lol, will do. Ordered this morning and Amazon delivering Sunday. Faaast service, my fermenter won't be available for another couple weeks!

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14 hours ago, Bonsai & Brew said:

 

I've been getting by with pH paper but need to look into that 5.2 stabilizer.  For my 2 gallon batches, a lb. of that would last a lifetime.  Let us know what you think of it.

I googled the ph of spring water sold in stores, including Wal-Mart @D Kristof! They're mostly in 7.5 ph range. So it would appear that some adjustment would be required for brewing.

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The pH of water, and the pH of the mash, aren't the same.  The grain and the water result in the pH lowering because the grains are acidic.  The only question is whether the pH lowers into the acceptable range for mashing, and whether the water makeup is complementary or not to the style of the beer.

 

For most homebrewers, they can brew with good tasting water and not really know what they are missing (or not adding, pun intended).  For those that pay attention to water details, proper water can tremendously help with a beer style.  That's why certain parts of the world have certain beer styles that stand out.

 

A caution though - many do research and say "oh, here's the water they use in _____, so I will adjust my water to match that".  In truth, the brewers in that part of the world may be adjusting their water also, and no one realizes it.  So you have to do a good deal of research to come up with the proper way to match water for a certain style elsewhere.  Getting your pH to the proper range for brewing is much easier.

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2 hours ago, Cato said:

I googled the ph of spring water sold in stores, including Wal-Mart @D Kristof! They're mostly in 7.5 ph range. So it would appear that some adjustment would be required for brewing.

The pH of water, and the pH of the mash, aren't the same.  The grain and the water result in the pH lowering because the grains are acidic.  The only question is whether the pH lowers into the acceptable range for mashing, and whether the water makeup is complementary or not to the style of the beer.

 

For most homebrewers, they can brew with good tasting water and not really know what they are missing (or not adding, pun intended).  For those that pay attention to water details, proper water can tremendously help with a beer style.  That's why certain parts of the world have certain beer styles that stand out.

 

A caution though - many do research and say "oh, here's the water they use in _____, so I will adjust my water to match that".  In truth, the brewers in that part of the world may be adjusting their water also, and no one realizes it.  So you have to do a good deal of research to come up with the proper way to match water for a certain style elsewhere.  Getting your pH to the proper range for brewing is much easier.

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28 minutes ago, RickBeer said:

Getting your pH to the proper range for brewing is much easier.

Agreed!   For us, we have a private well (for now) so I sent in a sample and got it tested to know what it exactly shows.  Since its not a municipal water system, the makeup shouldn't really change much, if it all.   From there, it's easy breezy to nail what PH you need based on recipe.  A couple little steps to start, but I can tell you after reading @Screwy Brewer's blogs about Water PH, that's when things started changing for me as a brewer.

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2 hours ago, RickBeer said:

The pH of water, and the pH of the mash, aren't the same.  The grain and the water result in the pH lowering because the grains are acidic.  The only question is whether the pH lowers into the acceptable range for mashing, and whether the water makeup is complementary or not to the style of the beer.

 

For most homebrewers, they can brew with good tasting water and not really know what they are missing (or not adding, pun intended).  For those that pay attention to water details, proper water can tremendously help with a beer style.  That's why certain parts of the world have certain beer styles that stand out.

 

A caution though - many do research and say "oh, here's the water they use in _____, so I will adjust my water to match that".  In truth, the brewers in that part of the world may be adjusting their water also, and no one realizes it.  So you have to do a good deal of research to come up with the proper way to match water for a certain style elsewhere.  Getting your pH to the proper range for brewing is much easier.

Thanks Rick! I had assumed that the mash would have an influence on the water in some manner. I'd sort of skimmed over water profiles in my readings thus far and concentrating more on the other aspects of brewing.

 

Now that ph is on my radar, I'll be interested in testing my spring water before mashing, and during to see what I've got.

 

Lol, I haven't been displeased with using spring water with no adjustments, but if it could be better, then I really need to know that!

 

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1 hour ago, Cato said:

Lol, I haven't been displeased with using spring water with no adjustments, but if it could be better, then I really need to know that!

Yeah, because as you get going, along with PH, is different mineral additions that can either help your malts or your hops come forward and can honestly change your beer for the far better.  Its amazing how easy it can be, once you learn it all.  Little steps will show big leaps and bounds of difference in your beers.

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Does anyone here (Rick?) know what substituting Safale US-04 for 05 will do the the Surley Dog recipe?  With my limited knowledge, I  really don't know if I should try it.  But I have no more 05 left.  I did find this, so maybe I answered my own question:

"English yeast (US-04) will attenuate less, leaving a higher final gravity for a more malt-focused beer and the American yeast (US-05) will attenuate more, resulting in a lower final gravity for a dryer beer. "  Briarcliff Brewing      Does he know what he's talking about?

😟

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6 hours ago, Cato said:

I googled the ph of spring water sold in stores, including Wal-Mart @D Kristof! They're mostly in 7.5 ph range. So it would appear that some adjustment would be required for brewing.

Although I am an extract brewer I use grains to complement my efforts.  I don't steep grains, I do a mash using a couple +/- lbs of grains. At first I never thought about ph levels until I did more reading. As I said before, doing protein, acid and conversion rests while mashing has always landed me in the sweet spot. When I begin using my cooler mash tun for larger grain bills I suppose I might need to begin making adjustments. Haven't taken that leap yet, but I am slowly acquiring the necessary equipment.

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1 hour ago, D Kristof said:

Although I am an extract brewer I use grains to complement my efforts.  I don't steep grains, I do a mash using a couple +/- lbs of grains. At first I never thought about ph levels until I did more reading. As I said before, doing protein, acid and conversion rests while mashing has always landed me in the sweet spot. When I begin using my cooler mash tun for larger grain bills I suppose I might need to begin making adjustments. Haven't taken that leap yet, but I am slowly acquiring the necessary equipment.

Actually I think we're probably fine with extract and extract pm recipes. It's the all grain recipes that may need slight water adjustments.

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On 11/7/2018 at 10:24 AM, Bonsai & Brew said:

 

Mash pH is something that I have not paid a lot of attention to and figured it's time to start tweaking my mash-in-sack process.  Improved efficiency would certainly be the prime objective but I'm also curious how/if maintaining the proper mash pH affects the finished beer.  I feel like I'm starting over with my all-grain evolution, but that is the price of progress. :)

 

Also, I've been playing around with the idea of brewing classic styles using appropriate water profiles.  I've known for awhile that my water is naturally well suited for Munich Dunkel, Schwarzbier, etc., but because of high alkalinity/bicarbonate, I'll need to dilute that out before building other profiles with brewing salts.  Like you suggested, we may as well control what we can in our brew process and hope for better beer!         

Okay Eddie Haskell you've opened an interesting door here and the timing seems right for me to pay attention to see if my spring water is basically fine as it is or if I'd benefit from some adjustment to ph in the mash or minerals to the water.

 

So, now in addition to the ph stabilizer, I've got some ph strips coming and a small jar each of gypsum, calcium chloride, and phosphoric acid.

Time for a new column in my spreadsheet for each batch. Will likely take months to evaluate. Good news, more beer needs to be brewed! :)

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On 11/17/2018 at 2:15 PM, Squirley Mic said:

"English yeast (US-04) will attenuate less, leaving a higher final gravity for a more malt-focused beer and the American yeast (US-05) will attenuate more, resulting in a lower final gravity for a dryer beer. "  Briarcliff Brewing      Does he know what he's talking about?

😟

He knows exactly what he is talking about.  I couldn't have said it better myself.

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http://www.ezwatercalculator.com/

 

This is what I use to get an idea of my mash PH.  It is very accurate with the measurements that I have taken with my PH meter.  I don't even bother to double check any longer.  It does require that you know the mineral makeup of your water.  Some municipal water sources will give you this information if you call them.  Some frankly don't test for all of those items.  You also could take a sample of your water and send it to get it tested. 

Ward labs is the most recommended lab for this.  https://www.wardlab.com/BrewersKitOrder.php    They will test your sample and return the results to you via an email.

 

Another option is a water test kit, I have one of these.  https://www.morebeer.com/products/lamotte-brewlab-basic-water-test-kit-718901.html?gclid=Cj0KCQiA28nfBRCDARIsANc5BFBa0F8IkvFBTuu6j2XVP6mk-uRsWqW6QtCfxr5znQCLZX9LOkOue0MaAvIEEALw_wcB

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On Saturday, November 17, 2018 at 5:47 PM, Cato said:

Actually I think we're probably fine with extract and extract pm recipes. It's the all grain recipes that may need slight water adjustments.

I don't doubt that a bit. All I am clumsily trying to say is if you can add one step to your AG mash, I don't see how you or I could be far off from that number. Mother Nature, the maltster and chemistry do the work. In my inexperienced opinion, PH adjustments are for people who don't want to add that step.

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@Bonsai & Brew

May be of interest or not. A forum members response post from another site, where the OP had very low ph readings , 4.89, in his samples taken early in a cooler mashtun, but then got a 5.39 ph from the preboil wort in the BK. No sparge mash in the cooler mashtun for a pale ale.

 

I had not considered when would be the recommended time to take the mash ph readings, so I need to do some further readings, and to also see if the post below carries any weight. Good thing that I've got a little break before my next brew session!

"Pale malts are "effectively" basic with respect to typical mash pH targets. There is clearly no mechanismaside from acid addition or acid malt addition which could conceivably result in such a false low pH reading. I presume this might likely be a case whereby the requisite and pre-determined acid addition was made directly to the mash, and not to the mash water pre the mash, whereby it could receive adequate mixing to uniformly disperse it. Or a case of inadequate stirring during the mash. Or both. It is assuredly a case of premature sampling, which inevitably will yield a false low pH reading to begin with (whereby the solution to this delema is to never sample until at least 30 minutes have gone by in the mash, and to stir, stir, stir). If the pre-boil pH was 5.39, this reading is a much better reflection of the actual mash pH conditions. My preferred time to sample mash pH is at the 60 minute mark of the mashing step, but others agree that 30 minutes is the earliest sampling point with any level of validity.

Other reasons for a false low pH reading include:
1) Stirring the sample with the pH probe and taking the pH reading while stirring
2) Not allowing the pH probe to sit in an undisturbed sample for up to several minutes to fully stabilize
3) Reading pH on a sample that is above room temperature, and incorrectly presuming that ATC will correct for this."
 
 

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@Cato -- Interesting.  I've been taking my pH readings fairly early in the mash process.  I'll take a reading mid-mash on my next brew to make sure that I'm not over compensating with the lactic acid addition.  Thanks for the read.

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Everyone is aware that you should read your pH at room temp right. You can read it when its warm but there’s a number you subtract to get a better idea. I think its a 1/3 of a point or something like that

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I guess I'll plan on getting a ph meter at some point but my spring water tests at 5 on the test strips and I checked my mash on this last batch after adding the appropriate amount of 5.2 stabilizer and it read 5 as well.

Whether the stabilizer had significant effect or not, I'll have to check next time without adding any stabilizer.

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Cato,

 

Test strips aren't very accurate.

 

PH meter is the better way to go.  And I will tell you my cheap one is more frustration to me than it is worth.

 

Dawg

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On ‎11‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 2:15 PM, Squirley Mic said:

Does anyone here (Rick?) know what substituting Safale US-04 for 05 will do the the Surley Dog recipe?  With my limited knowledge, I  really don't know if I should try it.  But I have no more 05 left.  I did find this, so maybe I answered my own question:

"English yeast (US-04) will attenuate less, leaving a higher final gravity for a more malt-focused beer and the American yeast (US-05) will attenuate more, resulting in a lower final gravity for a dryer beer. "  Briarcliff Brewing      Does he know what he's talking about?

😟

This is why the Mr B yeast makes malty brews isn't it, as it attenuates less than US-05?

 

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45 minutes ago, BDawg62 said:

Cato,

 

Test strips aren't very accurate.

 

PH meter is the better way to go.  And I will tell you my cheap one is more frustration to me than it is worth.

 

Dawg

Thanks! I've been looking at an Apera digital that has a replaceable sensor. Seems to get good reviews @Creeps McLane.

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5 hours ago, Nickfixit said:

This is why the Mr B yeast makes malty brews isn't it, as it attenuates less than US-05?

 

 

Oh!  Well, now I've learned something else new.  I mean, I have not been able to locate any substantial data on what (exactly) is inside those MRB yeast packets, but I have seen a lot of recipes of theirs that call for something else and this could be why.  I'm slowly accumulating a small jar of MRB yeast packets and a much larger one of MRB Booster packs.  Thanks Nickfixit

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9 hours ago, Nickfixit said:

This is why the Mr B yeast makes malty brews isn't it, as it attenuates less than US-05?

 

Funny thing. I brewed a black ipa last weekend. I wanted a nice sweetness to the finished product. Traditionally you would use a north west yeast strain, but i went with london ale III because i wanted some english fruity sweet flavors. Turns out, london III attenuates more than northwest ale yeast... SOB

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Oy, also aiming for less attenuation in my current ale fermenting. Trying S-04 for the first time. Seems to take off fast, pitched in the morning and at bedtime blowoff jar was gurgling.

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S-04 is a fickle yeast as are most English strains.  Be sure to not let the wort cool below the current fermentation temperature or the yeast will drop out and go to sleep to early.  I always allow my English strains to raise 1 degree per day during fermentation to ensure that it doesn't drop early.

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9 minutes ago, BDawg62 said:

S-04 is a fickle yeast as are most English strains.  Be sure to not let the wort cool below the current fermentation temperature or the yeast will drop out and go to sleep to early.  I always allow my English strains to raise 1 degree per day during fermentation to ensure that it doesn't drop early.

Thanks for the heads up, Dawg! Temp controller set for 65 and 1 degree differential set for the heat side. That'll hold it 64 as a low and 66 as a high.

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The recipe builders can give indication of the yeast attenuation when you select the yeast. I found it interesting to see the variations on FG. But it will also affect residual sweetness.

Look at the range, from a saison or champagne yeast at 90%, to ale yeasts at 70%.

 

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/calculator

 

The "Cry Havoc" liquid yeast gives pretty sweet/malty result and you can use it for ales and lagers too.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Nickfixit said:

The recipe builders can give indication of the yeast attenuation when you select the yeast. I found it interesting to see the variations on FG. But it will also affect residual sweetness.

Look at the range, from a saison or champagne yeast at 90%, to ale yeasts at 70%.

 

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/calculator

 

The "Cry Havoc" liquid yeast gives pretty sweet/malty result and you can use it for ales and lagers too.

 

 

Thanks @Nickfixit! Lol, I entered all my specs into the Brewers Friend calculator. That's a pretty neat software.

 

My adjusted numbers show that where I started out to brew an American Pale recipe began morphing with the addition of some dark Munich and dark wheat (intentional on my part).Then, evidently morphed again because I double crushed my grains in an effort to improve my previously  poor BIAB efficiency.

 

Net result was I check all the boxes for the Strong Ale category and Old Ale as the specialty. Results show I can expect about 7.1% ABV and that I had a significant improvement  to an 80% brewhouse efficiency.

 

Ah, so goes it learning how and what to tweak in my brewing system. @Bonsai & Brew, I'm going to rename this pale to "Ye Olde Ale".

 

Hell, maybe I should rename my brewery to "Afterthefact Brewery".

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I use that software if I am  doing any thing unusual or I want to check what FG to expect. I think it has Mr B HMEs somewhere, but I did not find them yet.

more info here 

 

 

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FYI @Cato i do not believe that 5.2 mash stabilizater will just magically make your mash 5.2. From my limited experience I would think that you have to get your mash in that range and then if you add the stabilizer it will try to lock in the pH. I would assume that this product raises the alkalinity in the water. Alkalinity is the measure of how resistant your pH is to change. 

 

Ive used this product before and found it made my lager have a slight salty taste. That eventually did fade over time. Very mixed reviews of this online

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37 minutes ago, Creeps McLane said:

FYI @Cato i do not believe that 5.2 mash stabilizater will just magically make your mash 5.2. From my limited experience I would think that you have to get your mash in that range and then if you add the stabilizer it will try to lock in the pH. I would assume that this product raises the alkalinity in the water. Alkalinity is the measure of how resistant your pH is to change. 

 

Ive used this product before and found it made my lager have a slight salty taste. That eventually did fade over time. Very mixed reviews of this online

I don't have a clue, really since I just started paying attention to ph. I mean I've used ph meters and had to make water adjustments for our salt water critters when I ran an R&D facility, but I haven't sent off a sample of my bottled spring water to get an analysis. Not sure that I need to at this point.

 

I tested the ph of my bottled spring water with paper test strips and the color matched the 5.0 range. I mixed the appropriate amount of stabilizer for my strike water and mashed, and tested 1/2 way through my mash. Pretty much all out of curiousity.

 

People say your ph will change during mash and when I checked mine it was in the 5.0 range.

 

Going back to the instructions on the jar of stabilizer it says it will "magically" lock in my ph to 5.2. ;)

So you might be correct, that you have to be in the ball park for the stabilizer to work.

 

My beer has tasted fine ever since I switched from tap water to spring, and I'll have to check what happens to a strip next time I mash without any stabilizer added.

 

Yeah, I'll probably get a ph meter before long, just cause I want to know more.

 

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9 minutes ago, Creeps McLane said:

I just can’t believe it

648D7801-D038-4E7B-8DDE-C74A4A4C9500.png

😀  Magic, Creeps!

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2 minutes ago, Cato said:

😀  Magic, Creeps!

I dont believe in magic. It has to be  science. Theres no way i just add some powder and it goes to 5.2 no matter what. It just doesnt make sense!!! Sorry, i just cant believe it. Im calling 5 star

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22 minutes ago, Creeps McLane said:

I dont believe in magic. It has to be  science. Theres no way i just add some powder and it goes to 5.2 no matter what. It just doesnt make sense!!! Sorry, i just cant believe it. Im calling 5 star

100% in agreement.  It’s not possible. It will help you get closer, sure, and for an all-in-one powder, fine.  However, since not all starting water and not all grainbills are the same... it’s not possible to do exactly what it says.  For that reason, I’ve never used it. 

 

 Same thing for me with “Just add some gypsum to your water for IPAs to make them better”.  While “Better” is certainly subjective, nope!   Depending on your grainbill and what you already have in your water makeup, you can make things much worse. 

 

Personally, I would suggest that until you know what it’s going to do to your water for sure, don’t be adding anything. 

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32 minutes ago, Creeps McLane said:

I dont believe in magic. It has to be  science. Theres no way i just add some powder and it goes to 5.2 no matter what. It just doesnt make sense!!! Sorry, i just cant believe it. Im calling 5 star

LMAO! 

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until someone says, "you're really gonna make significantly better beer if you just add _______ to your water", I'm just gonna go buy kroger spring water when it's time to brew. interesting topic though.

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4 minutes ago, kedogn said:

100% in agreement.  It’s not possible. It will help you get closer, sure, and for an all-in-one powder, fine.  However, since not all starting water and not all grainbills are the same... it’s not possible to do exactly what it says.  For that reason, I’ve never used it. 

 

 Same thing for me with “Just add some gypsum to your water for IPAs to make them better”.  While “Better” is certainly subjective, nope!   Depending on your grainbill and what you already have in your water makeup, you can make things much worse. 

 

Personally, I would suggest that until you know what it’s going to do to your water for sure, don’t be adding anything. 

Ah, another magic doubter! What am I gonna do with you guys? If it's on the internet it must be true, right!

 

Simple as adding the appropriate amount, and then repeating the 5 Star activating chant on the inside of the lid 3 times and then check your mash in 30 min baby and BOOM, 5.2! Ph Magic.

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14 minutes ago, Jdub said:

until someone says, "you're really gonna make significantly better beer if you just add _______ to your water", I'm just gonna go buy kroger spring water when it's time to brew. interesting topic though.

Problem is, there is no specific “One Stop Shop” or “Magic Powder” that will do that.  You can literally start with the same water and the same grainbill (and hop schedule) but use different mineral adds (or amounts) in your water and you will have different beers in the end.  One might be a bitter hoppy bomb, while the other might have the hops muted some as it brings the malt more forward and is more balanced. 

 

#ILoveThisStuff! 

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12 minutes ago, kedogn said:

Problem is, there is no specific “One Stop Shop” or “Magic Powder” that will do that.  You can literally start with the same water and the same grainbill (and hop schedule) but use different mineral adds (or amounts) in your water and you will have different beers in the end.  One might be a bitter hoppy bomb, while the other might have the hops muted some as it brings the malt more forward and is more balanced. 

 

#ILoveThisStuff! 

i might tackle a water book ( saw there are a few out there) someday. there is a section of "how to brew" that was way over my head for now.

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19 minutes ago, kedogn said:

Problem is, there is no specific “One Stop Shop” or “Magic Powder” that will do that.  You can literally start with the same water and the same grainbill (and hop schedule) but use different mineral adds (or amounts) in your water and you will have different beers in the end.  One might be a bitter hoppy bomb, while the other might have the hops muted some as it brings the malt more forward and is more balanced. 

 

#ILoveThisStuff! 

Yeah, and it's time for me to take some learning steps.

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Went by the store to get my Christmas dinner whole tenderloin, and while I was there I picked up 5 gallons of spring water, but not the store label which is cheaper than the Deer Park spring water, however Deer Park will furnish the water report by pdf.

 

So since I'm trying to learn a bit more, I got the more expensive water and downloaded and printed out the 5 page report. I've not filled out a water profile yet on any of the brewing calculators, so I'll try and give it a go while my fermenter are tied up for the next couple weeks.

 

 The fermentation heater is able to keep the inside of the mini fridge within a degree or two of the ink bird setting for the fermenter it's taped to so I  brewed and stuck an LBK in there yesterday and it's doing great. One fermenter w/heater is at 65 and the LBK at 64. No complaints from me on that!

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I downloaded Bru'n Water today and have to go through the tutorials. Screwy Brewer is on another forum with me and told me his water profiles in ezRecipe will only support RO and distilled water right now but he hoped to have an expanded water profile written in 2019. I like his ezRecipe program, but going to try a year subscription to Beersmith 3 and see how that program does.

At this point chemical wise besides my magic 5.2 stabilizer, I have Gypsum, Calcium Chloride, and Phosphoric acid. What others might I need?

 

I still have a few weeks before the mini fridge will be available, so trying to put that time to good use on learning water quality.

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18 minutes ago, Cato said:

I downloaded Bru'n Water today and have to go through the tutorials. Screwy Brewer is on another forum with me and told me his water profiles in ezRecipe will only support RO and distilled water right now but he hoped to have an expanded water profile written in 2019. I like his ezRecipe program, but going to try a year subscription to Beersmith 3 and see how that program does.

At this point chemical wise besides my magic 5.2 stabilizer, I have Gypsum, Calcium Chloride, and Phosphoric acid. What others might I need?

 

I still have a few weeks before the mini fridge will be available, so trying to put that time to good use on learning water quality.

Lactic acid or acidulated malt for pH adjustment. I believe that gypsum also lowers the pH but is undesirable in certain styles. 

 

This is what i rock. Also you could ads chalk to the list. 

F1A66744-1535-46ED-91BE-FA29D0A46C12.jpeg

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20 minutes ago, Creeps McLane said:

Lactic acid or acidulated malt for pH adjustment. I believe that gypsum also lowers the pH but is undesirable in certain styles. 

 

This is what i rock. Also you could ads chalk to the list. 

F1A66744-1535-46ED-91BE-FA29D0A46C12.jpeg

Thanks, @Creeps McLane, the baking soda and Epsom salt I can get at the store. My phosphoric acid I think is also supposed to lower the ph.

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Downloaded Beersmith 3 today. I've gotten pretty used to Qbrew but time to check out some other software.

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43 minutes ago, Cato said:

Downloaded Beersmith 3 today. I've gotten pretty used to Qbrew but time to check out some other software.

First thing I suggest is immediately setting up your equipment profile otherwise it’s just going to be a headache later down the line. After that, its a piece of cake. Mobile or desktop version?

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6 minutes ago, Creeps McLane said:

First thing I suggest is immediately setting up your equipment profile otherwise it’s just going to be a headache later down the line. After that, its a piece of cake. Mobile or desktop version?

Desktop! Mobile versions of most software are slimmed down. Plus I prefer a bigger view when filling out info blocks.

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1 hour ago, Creeps McLane said:

First thing I suggest is immediately setting up your equipment profile otherwise it’s just going to be a headache later down the line. After that, its a piece of cake. Mobile or desktop version?

Done! Set up a profile for both kettles and fermenters. I'll run a recipe through it for my next batch and see how it settles out. Fortunately they had my Deer Park water in the profile base.

 

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2 hours ago, Cato said:

Done! Set up a profile for both kettles and fermenters. I'll run a recipe through it for my next batch and see how it settles out. Fortunately they had my Deer Park water in the profile base.

 

i love the scaling feature. I plug in a lot of recipes and then scale to 2 or 3 gal batches, and then clean it up from there. their forum is helpful too.

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Went through the tutorials today on BS 3 and then built a AG BIAB recipe for an Irish Red and worked it over making changes and scaling it to where I have a fair handle on it.

 

I like the program already, even though I'm on the 21 day trial, I'll spring for the subscription.

 

After reviewing the water changes to get from my source water profile to my chosen target profile, I figured I might as well go all in and get a ph meter, otherwise how would I really be able to quantify a couple points up or down? Of course, I realize this is likely to debunk my magic 5.2 stabilizer @Creeps McLane! 🙄

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Ph meter coming today!

Lol, when I left the fishery R&D facility in 2012, I didn't think I'd ever have to monitor water quality again!

Still, here I am again, but once again it becomes necessary.

 

What can be measured, can be controlled. Pretty much a mantra for a production manager. It always costs more to buy machinery, electronics, whatever that can be adjusted and fine tuned. The payoff is well worth it.

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Posted (edited)

Piggybacking here on @Bonsai & Brew's thread as it seems as good a place to post on ph and water adjustments.

 

Calibrated my ph meter and got used to the menu buttons etc. Its pretty slick and fairly fast for a pen, to stabilize and lock in a reading. I appreciate that they include a double sided laminated instruction and programming guide, for reference and waterproofed.

 

Anyway, I wanted to measure my Deer Park Spring Water and then compare that to my ph strips. I ran the test last night and again today with same results. Meter read 6.82 ph and the test strip color comparison didn't quite make it to 5.0. What a bust!

 

I thought surely that it would indicate more than that, and maybe be off by a few tenths or half a point! I wondered if they would register anything at all so I added a pinch of bicarbonate and stirred it in. That produced a purple off the chart colorl

 

Maybe I have a bad batch of strips, but they should have shown a dramatic color change since their range is 4.6-6.2.

 

Lol, I'll practice with it again and check out whether my 5.2 stabilizer is as reliable as my ph test strips!

Oops, forgot to include my pics.

 

20190104_122326.jpg

20190104_122319.jpg

Edited by Cato
Wording and pics

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16 minutes ago, Cato said:

Piggybacking here on @Bonsai & Brew's thread as it seems as good a place to post on ph and water adjustments.

 

Calibrated my ph meter and got used to the menu buttons etc. Its pretty slick and fairly fast for a pen, to stabilize and lock in a reading. I appreciate that they include a double sided laminated instruction and programming guide, for reference and waterproofed.

 

Anyway, I wanted to measure my Deer Park Spring Water and then compare that to my ph strips. I ran the test last night and again today with same results. Meter read 6.82 ph and the test strip color comparison didn't quite make it to 5.0. What a bust!

 

I thought surely that it would indicate more than that, and maybe be off by a few tenths or half a point! I wondered if they would register anything at all so I added a pinch of bicarbonate and stirred it in. That produced a purple off the chart colorl

 

Maybe I have a bad batch of strips, but they should have shown a dramatic color change since their range is 4.6-6.2.

 

Lol, I'll practice with it again and check out whether my 5.2 stabilizer is as reliable as my ph test strips!

 

pH strips are kind of garbage. I bought a pack, used them once and have never used them since. Garbage

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Just now, Creeps McLane said:

pH strips are kind of garbage. I bought a pack, used them once and have never used them since. Garbage

I naively thought they might be in the ballpark, @Creeps McLane, but now I know they're worthless.

On a brighter note, I'm really liking how BS v.3 works and looking forward to my next brew day, and curious to see how my numbers perform as well as water adjustments. Having so much fun with this!

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34 minutes ago, Cato said:

Piggybacking here on @Bonsai & Brew's thread as it seems as good a place to post on ph and water adjustments.

 

Calibrated my ph meter and got used to the menu buttons etc. Its pretty slick and fairly fast for a pen, to stabilize and lock in a reading. I appreciate that they include a double sided laminated instruction and programming guide, for reference and waterproofed.

 

Anyway, I wanted to measure my Deer Park Spring Water and then compare that to my ph strips. I ran the test last night and again today with same results. Meter read 6.82 ph and the test strip color comparison didn't quite make it to 5.0. What a bust!

 

I thought surely that it would indicate more than that, and maybe be off by a few tenths or half a point! I wondered if they would register anything at all so I added a pinch of bicarbonate and stirred it in. That produced a purple off the chart colorl

 

Maybe I have a bad batch of strips, but they should have shown a dramatic color change since their range is 4.6-6.2.

 

Lol, I'll practice with it again and check out whether my 5.2 stabilizer is as reliable as my ph test strips!

Oops, forgot to include my pics.

 

20190104_122326.jpg

20190104_122319.jpg

Jeez I just saw that I paid $8 for these and they're worthless. :(

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5 minutes ago, Cato said:

I naively thought they might be in the ballpark, @Creeps McLane, but now I know they're worthless.

On a brighter note, I'm really liking how BS v.3 works and looking forward to my next brew day, and curious to see how my numbers perform as well as water adjustments. Having so much fun with this!

Once you get your water dialed in, BS3 does a great job with water adjustments.

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4 minutes ago, BDawg62 said:

Once you get your water dialed in, BS3 does a great job with water adjustments.

Dawg, I'm really looking forward to that! Input my water report from Deer Park and have a recipe and supplies ready to go for next week. Have one fermenter left to clear out of the mini fridge and bottle, then I'm good to go.

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7 hours ago, Cato said:

Jeez I just saw that I paid $8 for these and they're worthless. :(

 

Agreed.  The Precision Labs test strips appear to be crap.  I bought a second pack of them thinking that my first might be expired or degraded but it made no difference.  The wide range Hydrion papers work great though -- I can tell easily when my pH is somewhere between 5.0-5.5.

 

image.jpeg

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