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After many different extract brews, not impressed.

Three partial mash beers are currently fermenting, Black Beer'd., Sticky Wicket, & Santa Rita.

The different malts have a good aroma, the hops aroma is heavenly, the extract aroma hmmm.

 

I'm done with extract brewing, lets see where partial mash takes me.

 

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11 minutes ago, Fire Rooster said:

After many different extract brews, not impressed.

Three partial mash beers are currently fermenting, Black Beer'd., Sticky Wicket, & Santa Rita.

The different malts have a good aroma, the hops aroma is heavenly, the extract aroma hmmm.

 

I'm done with extract brewing, lets see where partial mash takes me.

 

I guess a straight up extract is not for everybody. I only did two before going to HME partial mash's. My favorite though is partial mash  recipes with LME and grain. Whether I have a big percentage of one or the other, the brews have turned out pretty good and no twang or off flavors.

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It depends what you do.  Mr. Beer's base refills aren't wonderful.  Mr. Beer's Craft Refills are very good.

 

Partial mash recipes are good, depending on which refill you're working from.  

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22 minutes ago, Fire Rooster said:

After many different extract brews, not impressed.

Three partial mash beers are currently fermenting, Black Beer'd., Sticky Wicket, & Santa Rita.

The different malts have a good aroma, the hops aroma is heavenly, the extract aroma hmmm.

 

I'm done with extract brewing, lets see where partial mash takes me.

 

 

Those two are among my favorites.

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On 11/29/2018 at 3:51 PM, Fire Rooster said:

After many different extract brews, not impressed.

Three partial mash beers are currently fermenting, Black Beer'd., Sticky Wicket, & Santa Rita.

The different malts have a good aroma, the hops aroma is heavenly, the extract aroma hmmm.

 

I'm done with extract brewing, lets see where partial mash takes me.

 

I fully support you in this journey. I may come off as biased but ive done all styles of brewing. One thing ive learned along the way is the quality of your brews are linear with the effort you put into them. 

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On 11/29/2018 at 3:51 PM, Fire Rooster said:

After many different extract brews, not impressed.

Three partial mash beers are currently fermenting, Black Beer'd., Sticky Wicket, & Santa Rita.

The different malts have a good aroma, the hops aroma is heavenly, the extract aroma hmmm.

 

I'm done with extract brewing, lets see where partial mash takes me.

 

you have some good ones fermenting....BBP and SRPA are 2 of my favs as well. Partial mash or using DME/LME are the only way to go for your next step in your brewing career.

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I love doing partial mashes, but my work schedule doesnt always allow me to. A regular extract comes in handy in how quickly I can make it up. Strangely enough though, American Ale deluxe is one my favs, and that's after having done many partials and doctored extracts.

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Next sale might order 2 one gallon kits that use DME. Gonna do what I gotta do, I'm being overdosed with twang !

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1 hour ago, Fire Rooster said:

Next sale might order 2 one gallon kits that use DME. Gonna do what I gotta do, I'm being overdosed with twang !

do you live near a home brew shop? you can make a great batch with just some steeped grains, dme and hops. i found an ipa recipe online that i've already made twice in my LBK. no twang whatsoever.

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3 hours ago, Jdub said:

do you live near a home brew shop? you can make a great batch with just some steeped grains, dme and hops. i found an ipa recipe online that i've already made twice in my LBK. no twang whatsoever.

Yes, Brewers apprentice, Freehold NJ, Screwy Brewer is associated with them somehow

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21 minutes ago, Fire Rooster said:

Yes, Brewers apprentice, Freehold NJ, Screwy Brewer is associated with them somehow

Try this one. It's a 2 gallon Zombie Dust clone:

 

steep 4 oz each of carapils and crystal malts in about 1.5 gallons of water at 152 deg. for 30 minutes.

remove grains and bring to boil and remove from heat

add 3 lbs Briess Golden Light DME

Boil for 60 min. here is the hop schedule

.2 oz Citra 60 min

.4 oz Citra 20 min

.4 oz Citra 10 min

.4 oz Citra 5 min

.6 oz Citra 0 min

 

cool your wort and add to LBK and top off to 2 gallons

 

Safale S-04 yeast

 

1 oz Citra Dry hop last 5 days

 

i've made it 2x and think it's great.

 

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"Crystal malts" is unclear to me.  Crystal / Caramel malt comes in various color / sweetness, from 10L to 120L.  

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35 minutes ago, RickBeer said:

"Crystal malts" is unclear to me.  Crystal / Caramel malt comes in various color / sweetness, from 10L to 120L.  

thats what the recipe said. i used crystal 60. i don't know the different varieties well enough to know the difference.

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1 minute ago, Fire Rooster said:

Where online can I find the recipe ?

 

i just posted the entire thing as i read it. i think i got it from another forum as i was searching for 2 gallon recipes. you should try it.

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1 minute ago, Fire Rooster said:

Is it .2 oz, or 2 oz in your recipe ?

 

.2 oz (point 2)

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7 hours ago, Jdub said:

thats what the recipe said. i used crystal 60. i don't know the different varieties well enough to know the difference.

 

The recipe you found is poor then, because there is a huge difference between the ends of the spectrum (see below).

 

As BDawg62 stated, since you decided to use C60, put that in the recipe when you pass it on.  

 

I think it's great when people find recipes.  However, do your homework.  Look up what the stuff is, and what effect it will have.  If you have a LHBS, go in and EAT the grain.  That's right, pickup a few kernels and chomp on them, and see if you get the flavor that they say you will.  

 

10 - candy-like sweetness, mild caramel

20 - same description as 10

30 - sweet, caramel, toffee

40 - same description as 30

60 - sweet, pronounced caramel

80 - pronounced caramel, slightly burnt sugar, raisiny

90 - pronounced caramel, slightly burnt sugar, raisiny, prunes

120 -  pronounced caramel, burnt sugar, raisiny, prunes

 

And of course the higher the number, the darker the color.

 

http://www.brewingwithbriess.com/Products/Caramel.htm#10L

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47 minutes ago, RickBeer said:

 

The recipe is poor then, because there is a huge difference between the ends of the spectrum (see below).

 

I think it's great when people find recipes.  However, do your homework.  Look up what the stuff is, and what effect it will have.  If you have a LHBS, go in and EAT the grain.  That's right, pickup a few kernels and chomp on them, and see if you get the flavor that they say you will.  

 

10 - candy-like sweetness, mild caramel

20 - same description as 10

30 - sweet, caramel, toffee

40 - same description as 30

60 - sweet, pronounced caramle

80 - pronounced caramel, slightly burnt sugar, raisiny

90 - pronounced caramel, slightly burnt sugar, raisiny, prunes

120 -  pronounced caramel, burnt sugar, raisiny, prunes

 

And of course the higher the number, the darker the color

 

http://www.brewingwithbriess.com/Products/Caramel.htm#10L

Ive always been told not to eat the crystal malts. Theyre hard as a rock i thought.  At least thats what a Briess rep told me at homebrew con. Now vienna and pale malt and golden promise, me and my son snack on a kernel before i mill it. Good bonding experiences

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I have no problem eating them either.  The Briess rep probably doesn't promote eating them because a 20L and a 40L are different in quantity but if you look closely they are a mix of light and darker grains.  The 40L has more dark than the 20L.  If you were to get all lighter grains in your sample you probably wouldn't notice a difference.

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just trying to help someone out with a recipe that i've had good success with and haven't had any extract twang issues. it's probably lacking some technicalities, but it was good enough for me. tough crowd!

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JDub,

 

You are fine, just understand that sharing a recipe requires that you input the complete information.  Since you used C60 for your beer you should have stated that in the recipe.  Remember there are folks on this forum who have relatively little knowledge about brewing and others who have vast amounts of knowledge about brewing.  The difficulties arise in answering the questions of the former and quieting the later.😉

 

Dawg

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1 hour ago, Jdub said:

just trying to help someone out with a recipe that i've had good success with and haven't had any extract twang issues. it's probably lacking some technicalities, but it was good enough for me. tough crowd!

 

I was pointing out that the recipe you found was lacking, not pointing at you for posting it.  I edited my response to clarify that.  

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Jdub:

Thanks, your suggestion will be my next brew.  The discussions clarified questions I had. Now I  "just do it".  

 

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I believe that some of the extract "Twang" and off flavors has to do with the fermenting temperature (often too high) and short conditioning time. Lately, all my beers are extract with a little extra malt and perhaps hops added, and they have been very good. Perhaps my taste buds are not so refined.

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Different strokes for different folks.

A beer one would call Swamp Water, another would call a fine brew. :)

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5 hours ago, Fire Rooster said:

Different strokes for different folks.

A beer one would call Swamp Water, another would call a fine brew. :)

 

But 'Swamp Water' has that certain pizazz to it...I'd order it!  (together we could drain the swamp water)

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Jdub:

4 oz total (2 oz Carapils & 2 oz Crystal 60)

OR

8 oz total (4 oz Carapils & 4 oz Crystal 60)

 

Thanks

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31 minutes ago, Fire Rooster said:

Jdub:

4 oz total (2 oz Carapils & 2 oz Crystal 60)

OR

8 oz total (4 oz Carapils & 4 oz Crystal 60)

 

Thanks

i did 4 oz each or 8 total. hope it works out!

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3 hours ago, Jdub said:

i did 4 oz each or 8 total. hope it works out!

 Nectar of the Gods quest has begun !

 

When you steep do you use whole ?, crushed ?, I guess milled would be too fine.

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Crushed. Milled would be ok if you don't mind the flour dust. Occasionally my LHBS has the grain mill set too fine and I get a lot of flour. Not necessary, but if you have the patience, chill your wort after steeping, pour it into a container which you can refrigerate for a couple hours then pour off the top into your kettle and brew as normal. 

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18 minutes ago, D Kristof said:

Crushed. Milled would be ok if you don't mind the flour dust. Occasionally my LHBS has the grain mill set too fine and I get a lot of flour. Not necessary, but if you have the patience, chill your wort after steeping, pour it into a container which you can refrigerate for a couple hours then pour off the top into your kettle and brew as normal. 

How do you crush it ? If it comes whole.

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54 minutes ago, Fire Rooster said:

How do you crush it ? If it comes whole.

my lhbs asks me if want grains milled or whole, i didn't know either at 1st, but you want them milled. when you get grains from mr beer in a PM kit, they are milled/crushed.

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10 hours ago, Jdub said:

my lhbs asks me if want grains milled or whole, i didn't know either at 1st, but you want them milled. when you get grains from mr beer in a PM kit, they are milled/crushed.

(others can chime in)

Did you use citra pellet or leaf hops ?

What would be the reason to use pellet hop over leaf hop ? or leaf hop over pellet ?

The best I can tell leaf hops are best for dry hopping, is this true ?

Are leaf hops less sterile than pellet hops ?

 

 

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I'd think the pellet hops are easier to use as they don't take up much room in the fermenter or cause bottling issues or sparging issues in the kettle if they're in a hopsack. Plus they store very well in the fridge in a ziplock.

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1 hour ago, Fire Rooster said:

(others can chime in)

Did you use citra pellet or leaf hops ?

What would be the reason to use pellet hop over leaf hop ? or leaf hop over pellet ?

The best I can tell leaf hops are best for dry hopping, is this true ?

Are leaf hops less sterile than pellet hops ?

 

 

i have only used pellet hops. never used whole leaf hops.

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1 hour ago, Fire Rooster said:

What would be the reason to use pellet hop over leaf hop ? or leaf hop over pellet ?

The best I can tell leaf hops are best for dry hopping, is this true ?

Are leaf hops less sterile than pellet hops ?

 

 

There would be no reason to use leaf hops ever.  

Beyond Sierra Nevada, most commercial brewers never use leaf hops.

There is a big list of reasons to not use whole hops - they absorb a lot more wort, you need much more than pellet hops, they are less-consistent than pellet hops, ...  

 

If you do some Googling around comparing leaf vs. pellet hops, you can find a lot more reasons to not use leaf hops.

 

A reason to use them would be if you grow your own hops, which some have tried.  Several issues - hops are poisonous to dogs, creatures may eat your hops, and you need much more than with pellet hops.

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13 hours ago, Fire Rooster said:

How do you crush it ? If it comes whole.

If you have grains that are not crushed, you can put small amounts in a baggie and crush with a rolling pin (not easy).  I have done it with this method and after one time made sure my grains were always crushed.  You can also use a food processor but that makes a mess.  I now have my own mill so not an issue.

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20 minutes ago, BDawg62 said:

If you have grains that are not crushed, you can put small amounts in a baggie and crush with a rolling pin (not easy).  I have done it with this method and after one time made sure my grains were always crushed.  You can also use a food processor but that makes a mess.  I now have my own mill so not an issue.

Great reason to have a two speed drill!

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Whole grains can't brew beer.  They must be crushed in some manner.  Milling crushes the grain, a properly set mill will crack open the grain kernel and expose the endosperm, i.e. the inside.  That's critical to mashing.  

 

The object of milling is not to make flour, and not to destroy the outer husk of the grain.  Why?  Because the mash is recirculated, i.e. the cloudy wort with bits of crap in it is sprayed into the top of the mash tun and is filtered by the grain bed.  In addition, when a mash is sparged (water run through it), the water needs to be filtered by the grain to get let the good stuff through, and keep the crap behind (a non-scientific explanation).  If it's milled too fine, then water won't find a path through the grain (think of ants in an ant hill making tunnels), and the sparge can get "stuck" or clogged.  

 

One way to prevent a stuck sparge is to use rice hulls.  

 

Some methods of brewing can use highly milled, even pulverized grain, such as BIAB (Brew In A Bag).  Why?  Two reasons.  First, the grain is in a bag (for example a 5 gallon paint bag), and that bag filters the mash just fine).  Second, a sparge in a mash tun is not the same as a sparge with BIAB.  In a mash tun, you don't want the grain bed to collapse, so you start sparging before all the wort drains out.  With BIAB, you lift the bag up and sparge it while it's sitting in a big strainer or collander.  

 

Hope this helps, tried to keep out the jargon.  

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2 hours ago, RickBeer said:

 

There would be no reason to use leaf hops ever.  

Beyond Sierra Nevada, most commercial brewers never use leaf hops.

There is a big list of reasons to not use whole hops - they absorb a lot more wort, you need much more than pellet hops, they are less-consistent than pellet hops, ...  

 

If you do some Googling around comparing leaf vs. pellet hops, you can find a lot more reasons to not use leaf hops.

 

A reason to use them would be if you grow your own hops, which some have tried.  Several issues - hops are poisonous to dogs, creatures may eat your hops, and you need much more than with pellet hops.

How about Cryo-Citra-Pellet vs Citra-Pellet ? for the Zombie Dust clone.

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15 minutes ago, Fire Rooster said:

How about Cryo-Citra-Pellet vs Citra-Pellet ? for the Zombie Dust clone.

 

Rick mentions no reason to use hop leaves 'ever' (citing Sierra Nevada as an exception).  He's maybe right but I will tell you that I used hope leaves, (and buds) just the other day to dry-hop my my Squirley Dog.  But I did it in a fashion that avoided the absorbing of any wort.  I made a hop tea in my french press and after it cooled sufficiently, added it directly to the wort on day 14 of fermentation.  It added about a pint of the most delicious smelling liquid imaginable.  The leaves came from that big bag of hops my wife bought at the Christmas bazaar.

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Im 90% sure even sierra nevada doesnt use whole leaf hops anymore. Was it Mitch Steele who used to work there? Whoever it was, I listened to a podcast with him and he was talking about the transition of moving to pellet hops

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44 minutes ago, Fire Rooster said:

How about Cryo-Citra-Pellet vs Citra-Pellet ? for the Zombie Dust clone.

Cryo hops will work but remember they are much more potent than regular pellet hops.  I have not used them myself but understand that they perform best later in the boil and dry hopping.  Maybe use regular pellets for your bittering addition and use Cryo for flavor, aroma and of course dry hop.

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58 minutes ago, Creeps McLane said:

Im 90% sure even sierra nevada doesnt use whole leaf hops anymore. Was it Mitch Steele who used to work there? Whoever it was, I listened to a podcast with him and he was talking about the transition of moving to pellet hops

They still use whole hops to my understanding, and the Torpedo line of beers is definitely with whole hops.

 

https://www.sierranevada.com/faq/beer/what-are-the-ingredients-used-in-sierra-nevada-beers

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2 minutes ago, RickBeer said:

They still use whole hops to my understanding, and the Torpedo line of beers is definitely with whole hops.

 

https://www.sierranevada.com/faq/beer/what-are-the-ingredients-used-in-sierra-nevada-beers

Thata right, i think thats when he was working at miller that he was talking about switching over.

 

i did hear on a different podcast that sierra nevada is experimenting heavily with cryo hops

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1 hour ago, Fire Rooster said:

Thanks all, I now have enough knowledge to confidently pursue the Zombie Clone recipe posted by Jdub.

 

Good luck!  Post your results when the time comes for tasting

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1 hour ago, Fire Rooster said:

oh, with all the small citra hop additions (Zombie Dust clone recipe) are hop sacks necessary ?

you know what i did? i just threw the hops in with the boil (no sacks). i also cold crashed and didn't have any issues with hops floating around. When we're all drinking home brew we don't pour that last 1/4" anyway, so you'll be good! folks on this forum know far more than me about methods (and crystal malt types....jeesh!) It turned out fantastic for me. i like super citra hopped brew. I did throw 1 sack in for the dry hop though.....

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3 hours ago, Fire Rooster said:

oh, with all the small citra hop additions (Zombie Dust clone recipe) are hop sacks necessary ?

Go commando. :) 

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Finished making Zombie Dust clone.

When boil started it foamed up then subsided.

Everything executed with surgical precision, with the exeption

of one ice cube falling into wort.  Put ice in kitchen

sink to cool pot of wort.  When adding more ice to sink

one cube flipped into wort from bag. 

 

I think Cascade hops had a better aroma than Citra.

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19 minutes ago, Fire Rooster said:

Finished making Zombie Dust clone.

When boil started it foamed up then subsided.

Everything executed with surgical precision, with the exception

of one ice cube falling into wort.  Put ice in kitchen

sink to cool pot of wort.  When adding more ice to sink

one cube flipped into wort from bag

 

I think Cascade hops had a better aroma than Citra.

 

Unfortunately, your beer may be ruined.  To ensure it's safe, please mail it to my testing facility and I will personally check every bottle.

 

RickBeer

123 I Will Drink Your Beer Drive

Ann Arbor, MI  48105

 

 

Boiling wort.  Ice cube falls in.  Melts, kills anything before wort cools.  All is well.  

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On 12/2/2018 at 9:44 AM, Jdub said:

do you live near a home brew shop? you can make a great batch with just some steeped grains, dme and hops. i found an ipa recipe online that i've already made twice in my LBK. no twang whatsoever.

 

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2785/6868/t/3/assets/ZombieDirt2Gallon-1527037377775.pdf?10192803001442395523

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Jdub said:

very nice. looks like a match. like i said, i found it posted online. Now i see where it came from. I just had one a few minutes ago. love it!

Great can't wait, my first non HME

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2 hours ago, Fire Rooster said:

Great can't wait, my first non HME

now the pressure is on. i have raved about it to you. i hope it turns out good for you. i suspect you will taste the sample at bottling and smile if you like hoppy ipa's.

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17 hours ago, Jdub said:

now the pressure is on. i have raved about it to you. i hope it turns out good for you. i suspect you will taste the sample at bottling and smile if you like hoppy ipa's.

IPA's are my favorite.  Your suggestion with Zombie brew was a change desperately needed.

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Finished bottling Zombie clone. Boy did those dry hops suck up water.

Last 2 bottles were tough with hop sludge clogging, even after 3 days cold crash.

Sanitized another LBK then poured hop sludge water into it, minus the large chunks of hop sludge.

Will wait until it settles to see if I can get more out of it, 9 1/2 bottles so far.

 

Very delicious smell and taste.

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@Fire Rooster i was looking at that NB site where you found that recipe (don't worry i won't buy from them. will support my LHBS) they have some good 2 gallon recipes on there. was looking at their Dead Ringer recipe. says it's a clone of a popular michigan pale ale. is that bell's 2 hearted?

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7 hours ago, Jdub said:

@Fire Rooster i was looking at that NB site where you found that recipe (don't worry i won't buy from them. will support my LHBS) they have some good 2 gallon recipes on there. was looking at their Dead Ringer recipe. says it's a clone of a popular michigan pale ale. is that bell's 2 hearted?

 

Never heard of bell's 2 hearted, I'm kinda/sorta new to beer.

I was a wine snob for decades, Red, Dry, Napa & Sonoma valley, Cabernet & Merlot.

Had a glass or two with dinner almost every night for 25+ years.

Then about two years ago I just stopped drinking wine, don't care for it any more.

For whatever reason my taste buds are honing in on Pale Ales & IPA's.

 

Great minds think alike, starting Dead Ringer tomorrow 🍺

 

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3 hours ago, Fire Rooster said:

 

Never heard of bell's 2 hearted, I'm kinda/sorta new to beer.

I was a wine snob for decades, Red, Dry, Napa & Sonoma valley, Cabernet & Merlot.

Had a glass or two with dinner almost every night for 25+ years.

Then about two years ago I just stopped drinking wine, don't care for it any more.

For whatever reason my taste buds are honing in on Pale Ales & IPA's.

 

Great minds think alike, starting Dead Ringer tomorrow 🍺

 

new to beer? does not compute.....LOL. go to your local beer store and pick some up. excellent brew. see if you like it 1st. i think it's great. those are just some simple recipes that are really good IMHO. at least to a newbie brewer like myself.

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7 hours ago, Jdub said:

new to beer? does not compute.....LOL. go to your local beer store and pick some up. excellent brew. see if you like it 1st. i think it's great. those are just some simple recipes that are really good IMHO. at least to a newbie brewer like myself.

On special occasions I would have Coors Light or Corona Light,

never in depth like now. 

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On 1/2/2019 at 8:56 PM, Jdub said:

@Fire Rooster i was looking at that NB site where you found that recipe (don't worry i won't buy from them. will support my LHBS) they have some good 2 gallon recipes on there. was looking at their Dead Ringer recipe. says it's a clone of a popular michigan pale ale. is that bell's 2 hearted?

Years ago, that recipe was called "Three Hearted Ale" but they changed the name to avoid a lawsuit from Bell's. Does that answer your question?

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7 hours ago, bpgreen said:

Years ago, that recipe was called "Three Hearted Ale" but they changed the name to avoid a lawsuit from Bell's. Does that answer your question?

oh wow. yes it does. thanks.

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