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Fire Rooster

DME to All grain conversion

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A partial mash recipe uses 3 pounds Golden Light DME.

Specs on Golden Light DME= 99% Base Malt and 1% Carapils Malt.

 

What would be the all grain conversion ?

My best guess is 5 pounds of all grain equals 3 pounds DME ?

What are they referring to, "Base Malt" ?

 

Thanks

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There is no guessing.   You use a conversion table/website to convert from an extract recipe to an all grain recipe.  Your "best guess" was obviously based upon you doing some research...  

 

If you don't know what the term "base malt" means, you probably aren't ready to do all grain brewing, because if you created a recipe that did not include base malts, you wouldn't have adequate conversion to make your beer.

 

A base malt is a malt that has the ability, through it's diastatic power, to convert starch to sugars.  Base malts include 2-row, 6-row, pale ale malt, Maris Otter, Pislner malt, Munich, wheat malt, rye malt. 

 

 

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48 minutes ago, RickBeer said:

There is no guessing.   You use a conversion table/website to convert from an extract recipe to an all grain recipe.  Your "best guess" was obviously based upon you doing some research...  

 

If you don't know what the term "base malt" means, you probably aren't ready to do all grain brewing, because if you created a recipe that did not include base malts, you wouldn't have adequate conversion to make your beer.

 

A base malt is a malt that has the ability, through it's diastatic power, to convert starch to sugars.  Base malts include 2-row, 6-row, pale ale malt, Maris Otter, Pislner malt, Munich, wheat malt, rye malt. 

 

 

Base Malts

Base malts make up the majority of the grist in all-grain beer, and the variety is, frankly, astounding. Named based on the formation of corns on the barley stalk (2-row vs. 6-row), the variety (e.g., Maris Otter, Golden Promise, etc), or the region in which it was grown or malted. Includes:

  • Barley malts: pale malt, Pilsner malt, Vienna malt, Munich malt, mild ale malt, and more
  • Non-barley base malts like wheat malt and rye malt (more on these in "Other Malts")
  • High-kilned malts: responsible for the dark, malty lagers of Europe and have also found a home in some ales because of their unique character. Munich and Vienna malts are the prime examples 
  • American base malt is generally mild and fairly neutral; British malts tend to be maltier, bready, and biscuit-like.

The European climate gives malts made from Continental barley a clean, "elegant" character. Pilsner malt has a soft, delicate maltiness that practically defines pale lagers. "High-kilned" (heated to a higher temperature at the end of the malting process) base are rof high-kilned malts, although mild ale malt belongs to this category too. The darker color lends these malts a more toasty, malty flavor than you get from lighter base malts.

 

https://www.jaysbrewing.com/2011/11/17/lazy-chart-for-converting-dme-lme-grain/

 

 

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Fire Rooster said:

I'll cut to the chase,

How would someone do this recipe with "All Grain"

 

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2785/6868/t/3/assets/ZombieDirt2Gallon-1527037377775.pdf?10192803001442395523

 

Thanks

i'll attempt to answer. according to your "lazy" conversion chart, 5 lbs grains=3 lbs DME. 1st know that that is very general.

 

I would buy/download brewing software like Beersmith 3. Plug in 5 lbs of base malt (2 row) and .25 lb each of crystal 60L and carapils. Then add in the hop schedule and yeast...etc.

 

Beersmith will tell you what the expected ABV etc...should be. This makes a lot of assumptions though. You need to know the efficiency of your equipment and process. I would probably look at BIAB set up. I'm still learning what my efficiency is and it varies from batch to batch b/c i'm a newbie. With the software, you can bump up the ABV etc...and it will increase/decrease your grain bill for you.

 

I watched a ton of BIAB videos on youtube. still do. 

 

I've probably watched this video about 10 times and even built a cooler mash tun that i think is pretty awesome. he has some other good vids as well. IMHO.

 

 

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55 minutes ago, Fire Rooster said:

Thanks. I am misunderstood with base malt , probably because I asked poorly.

99% Base Malt is listed for Briess Golden Light DME.

http://www.brewingwithbriess.com/Assets/PDFs/Briess_PISB_CBWGoldenLightDME.pdf

Which base malt are they referring to ?

 

Thank You

 

 

Probably their 2 row malt. They have a pale malt but its slightly darker than the 2 row.

For my AG ZD clone I used a 50/50 mix of their 2 row and pale malt to get my color where I wanted it.

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44 minutes ago, Cato said:

Probably their 2 row malt. They have a pale malt but its slightly darker than the 2 row.

For my AG ZD clone I used a 50/50 mix of their 2 row and pale malt to get my color where I wanted it.

 

Was it just for the color ?

Or, pale malt DP of 85, and 2 row malt DP of 140, averages to a diastatic power of 112.  Was this taken into consideration at all ?

 

Thanks

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5 minutes ago, Fire Rooster said:

 

Was it just for the color ?

Or, pale malt DP of 85, and 2 row malt DP of 140, averages to a diastatic power of 112.  Was this taken into consideration at all ?

 

Thanks

OK, there is and can be a lot of confusion between Pale Malt and 2 row malt(Brewers Malt).  Let's go at it in this manner, Pale Malt and Brewers Malt are both made from 2 row malt as are most other malts made by Briess.  Pale Malt has a color rating of 3.5 SRM while Brewers Malt is at 1.8 SRM.  Both malts are base malts and both malts have enough diastatic power to convert themselves.  Pale Malt will result in a beer with a slightly darker color than Brewers Malt. 

 

When converting an extract recipe to all grain, I use brewing software and a conversion chart to get everything to line up (OG, Color and IBUs)  For the most part, all grain recipes start with the majority of the malt being Brewers Malt or Pale Malt (brewers preference) with specialty grains added to give color and flavor desired.

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16 hours ago, Fire Rooster said:

I'll cut to the chase,

How would someone do this recipe with "All Grain"

 

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/2785/6868/t/3/assets/ZombieDirt2Gallon-1527037377775.pdf?10192803001442395523

 

Thanks

The short answer would be to mash the .2# of carapils and .2# of Medium English crystal with 5# of Brewers malt at 155 for 60 Minutes.  Proceed with the rest of the recipe as it is printed after you have collected your wort from the mash.

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2 hours ago, Fire Rooster said:

Thanks. I am misunderstood with base malt , probably because I asked poorly.

99% Base Malt is listed for Briess Golden Light DME.

http://www.brewingwithbriess.com/Assets/PDFs/Briess_PISB_CBWGoldenLightDME.pdf

Which base malt are they referring to ?

 

Thank You

 

 

i wouldn't overthink it. get some brewing software and try it multiple times using different base malts if you want. you can also e-mail Briess. they will probably help you with the conversion.

 

or, ask your LHBS. mine would tell me to just use 2 row as a base malt.

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Great, thanks all, good stuff.

Going to slowly ease into it, but "All Grain" here I come.

 

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1 hour ago, Fire Rooster said:

 

Was it just for the color ?

Or, pale malt DP of 85, and 2 row malt DP of 140, averages to a diastatic power of 112.  Was this taken into consideration at all ?

 

Thanks

@BDawg62 has got it. 

I wasn't really concerned about the DP. I'd bought some of both to have on hand, and ended up using the blend in BeerSmith to get the color I was looking for.

It wasn't a super critical point as either would have served well for a pale ale.

Mostly me just learning how to fine tune color, IBU's, ABV in BeerSmith.

 

Didn't mean to throw you a curveball by my blend.

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Good stuff, thanks everyone.

Happen to be at Walmart today and picked this up as suggested. $11.94

 

 

3.jpg

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Will you be using this for batches > 2 gallons?

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20 minutes ago, McSquirrely said:

Will you be using this for batches > 2 gallons?

 Not sure yet, maybe.  I may be able to do a 4-5 gallon batch with it, and add water later to volume like the Mr Beer kits.

Currently I'm venturing into uncharted territory and only doing 2 gallon test batches.

Testing various methods, yeasts. grains, and hops to see what works for me before rolling out to larger batches.

 

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53 minutes ago, Fire Rooster said:

 Not sure yet, maybe.  I may be able to do a 4-5 gallon batch with it, and add water later to volume like the Mr Beer kits.

Currently I'm venturing into uncharted territory and only doing 2 gallon test batches.

Testing various methods, yeasts. grains, and hops to see what works for me before rolling out to larger batches.

 

One of your first tasks with that new pot is to put 3 gallons of water in it and boil for 60 minutes on whatever burner or stove you plan to use for brewing.  Then cool that water and see what volume you have left.  Subtract that number from the initial 3 gallons and you will have your "boil off" rate.  You will need this with AG to calculate your total mash water volumes.  Also note that during the mash some water is lost to the grain absorption.  Brewing software usually has a default volume to account for grain absorption but you need to know your "boil off" number.

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57 minutes ago, BDawg62 said:

One of your first tasks with that new pot is to put 3 gallons of water in it and boil for 60 minutes on whatever burner or stove you plan to use for brewing.  Then cool that water and see what volume you have left.  Subtract that number from the initial 3 gallons and you will have your "boil off" rate.  You will need this with AG to calculate your total mash water volumes.  Also note that during the mash some water is lost to the grain absorption.  Brewing software usually has a default volume to account for grain absorption but you need to know your "boil off" number.

@Fire Rooster, you can mark a stick at gallon and 1/2 gallon points to help determine the boil off rate. Will most likely be 1/2 gal/hour at a nice rolling boil for that size stockpot but every kettle can be slightly different depending on heat source.

 

Lol, remember there's a reason why kettles for AG are usually double the size of the maximum batch recommended. Example 10 gal kettle for 5 gal batches is a common size. HOT BREAK happens quickly and can overflow an undersized kettle that is not under a watchful eye. Read up on that.

 

That not to say that you can't push that envelope a bit. My biggest kettle is 7.5 gal and I can boil 5 gal without issue as long as I am extremely vigilant as it approaches boil, and I am ready to dial my heat back a little at hot break, then once that protein foam peak passes I can resume my boil.

 

Just saying. :)

 

 

 

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Calculating boil off rate, and grain absorption, is to end up with whole volume being brewed.

What would be the benefit ?

Instead of adding more water to volume before fermenting.

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17 minutes ago, Fire Rooster said:

Calculating boil off rate, and grain absorption, is to end up with whole volume being brewed.

What would be the benefit ?

Instead of adding more water to volume before fermenting.

I am not a whole grain brewer but I would think it would affect hop utilization.

From the charts of that, the more concentrated the wort the less you get out of them.

http://howtobrew.com/book/section-1/hops/hop-bittering-calculations

 

If you wanted to do it your way you could recalculate but you would need more hops. Ending up exactly right offers the optimum economic solution.

But as long as you use the actual gravity of your boil to calculate hopping you should be OK.

Note that the author of this linked article uses a 3 gal pot and boil gravity of 1.080, and adds water at the end to get his 5 gal fermentation wort at maybe  somewhere around 1.050. 😮 

He also fudges it a bit to account (or not) for boil off.

 

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1 hour ago, Fire Rooster said:

Calculating boil off rate, and grain absorption, is to end up with whole volume being brewed.

What would be the benefit ?

Instead of adding more water to volume before fermenting.

The benefit to knowing these would be able to calculate your ABV for one thing.

 

Using brewing software and inputting your boil off rate, amount of trub loss left in kettle, your amount of grains and hops, your desired packaging amount, the capacity of your fermenter and trub loss in fermenter, it can tell you how much strike water you'll need,the preboil amount, the post boil amount, and how much will be left to go in your fermenter and in the case of Beersmith , I believe, how much top off water is needed. I haven't used that feature yet but I've seen it in the program.

 

If you follow those guidelines and input the correct numbers, then it should get you close to your packaging amount and approx. ABV when it's ready to bottle.

All that lets you play with some scenarios should you want to make changes to your recipe. Huge deal for recipe making, my fav.

 

It's not a small benefit, it's pretty huge in that it opens up a whole new dimension from what you began with in cans of HME.

There are free online calculators that can get you off and running even if you're using HME, DME, or LME as your base for a PM, or if you're going all grain.

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On ‎2‎/‎5‎/‎2019 at 5:43 AM, Fire Rooster said:

Thanks. I am misunderstood with base malt , probably because I asked poorly.

99% Base Malt is listed for Briess Golden Light DME.

http://www.brewingwithbriess.com/Assets/PDFs/Briess_PISB_CBWGoldenLightDME.pdf

Which base malt are they referring to ?

 

Thank You

 

 

http://www.brewingwithbriess.com/Products/Extracts.htm#GoldenLight

and

http://www.brewingwithbriess.com/Products/Base.htm

From here, I would compare the descriptions and Lovibond numbers provided and SWAG from there. Quickly looking at it I would guess Pale Ale Malt or Goldpils Vienna malt.

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First time using 16qt pot with full volume boil and hop schedule.  Used 2qt water for 8oz grain steep for 25 minutes.

Used all the stuff I've learned online, and from you guys/gals, so much to know.  Process is getting more involved, attention to details.

First test batch using Nottingham yeast.  Will ferment a little over 3 weeks at 59 degrees in basement.

Getting ready for first all grain mid next week.

Picture is citra hops awaiting their fate.

nwzcs.jpg

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