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Jdub

whirlpool vs flameout hop additions

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anyone have an opinion when a recipe says to add hops at 0 mins (flameout) vs. whirlpooling? whirlpooling as i understand it is cooling the wort from boiling to around 170-190 deg or so and then adding hops and stirring it up good in the kettle for a period of time. i had excellent results with a recipe by whirlpooling and i'm wondering if those 2 techniques are interchangeable, or is it specific to a certain recipe?

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1st I've heard of it (whirlpooling).  Just wanted to say that (so far) my best luck (taste-wise and ease of method) has been to dry hop using a 'hop tea' added either to the keg 5 days before the crash or (even better) straight into the bottle at charging time.  So far, ALL the batches I've done this on have turned out well.  The two times I hopped the wort in a wort sack, well...let's just say it was less than satisfactory.  I know this doesn't exactly answer your specific question, but what I've learned is: do what you think works best, easiest and/or tastiest.  It's your beer.  😘

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13 hours ago, Jdub said:

anyone have an opinion when a recipe says to add hops at 0 mins (flameout) vs. whirlpooling? whirlpooling as i understand it is cooling the wort from boiling to around 170-190 deg or so and then adding hops and stirring it up good in the kettle for a period of time. i had excellent results with a recipe by whirlpooling and i'm wondering if those 2 techniques are interchangeable, or is it specific to a certain recipe?

Sounds the same as an aroma addition to me. I've been doing less dry hops, and more aroma additions at the end of the boil and at flameout. I'll whirlpool by stirring while the chiller does its thing and then squeeze the hop sacks and remove them prior to pumping into the fermenter.

Been pretty happy with that method.

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2 hours ago, Cato said:

Sounds the same as an aroma addition to me. I've been doing less dry hops, and more aroma additions at the end of the boil and at flameout. I'll whirlpool by stirring while the chiller does its thing and then squeeze the hop sacks and remove them prior to pumping into the fermenter.

Been pretty happy with that method.

i guess my question is......adding hops at 0 means basically adding at boiling temp. whirlpooling suggests to cool the wort down a bit and then add the hops and stir for like 15 min. wondering what the difference is if any. i have an upcoming recipe which wants me to add at 0 min. wondering what i should do, b/c my one experience with whirlpool was great. is this minutia?

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11 minutes ago, Creeps McLane said:

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thanks creeps. yes, i guess i could have googled it before asking on the forum. i found some good info on it too. i know what i'm going to do now.

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2 hours ago, Jdub said:

thanks creeps. yes, i guess i could have googled it before asking on the forum. i found some good info on it too. i know what i'm going to do now.

Sorry, i was in a hurry. To me a whirlpool addition with not isomerize while a flameout addition will. Though new info is coming out everyday on the subject. 

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6 hours ago, Jdub said:

i guess my question is......adding hops at 0 means basically adding at boiling temp. whirlpooling suggests to cool the wort down a bit and then add the hops and stir for like 15 min. wondering what the difference is if any. i have an upcoming recipe which wants me to add at 0 min. wondering what i should do, b/c my one experience with whirlpool was great. is this minutia?

What @Creeps McLane is saying makes sense. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Cato said:

What @Creeps McLane is saying makes sense. 

 

yeah from what i read whirlpooling gives you the flavor/aroma without the bitterness. although there are some taste tests out there you can read about where no one can tell the difference. gonna whirlpool my next batch.

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All this talk of 'whirlpooling' got my curiosity up so I did google it just to see what you dudes were talking about.  Very interesting.  But then, there's this:

"Whirlpool trivia: Some tea drinkers who use loose tea and no tea ball separate the tea leaves by stirring their tea after the leaves sink to the bottom of the cup to cause the leaves to migrate to the center of the cup. Albert Einstein thought this phenomenon was pretty nifty. He developed a general explanation, called the Teacup Effect, of why pressure changes cause solids to migrate to the center instead of to the perimeter, where it seems like they should migrate. Molson Breweries in Canada is credited with first using the whirlpool in commercial brewing."  - Courtesy of Brew Your Own Homebrew magazine.  

Next cup of tea I brew, I'm trying this out to see if Einstein knew what he was talking about!! 

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I whirlpool with a spoon while I have the immersion chiller bringing the temps down and in that process I'll stir up my hop bag additions with the spoon and squeeze the wort out of them on the side of the kettle, cause I've always hated losing that wort.

 

Several of my recent brews haven't called for a dry hop, but I hadn't considered a hop addition in the whirlpool stage and may try that as an aroma addition. The IC always takes 30-40 minutes to chill, so it would give plenty of time for that aroma addition.

 

In some ways I'm like @Fire Rooster in that I like to close up that fermenter and not expose it to air for the next 3 weeks, particularly the ss brew buckets because it's going to suck in air pulling the blow off tube out of the jar and then opening the top. 

 

The LBK I don't mind as much, since smaller batch and ease of dry hopping.

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9 minutes ago, Cato said:

I whirlpool with a spoon while I have the immersion chiller bringing the temps down and in that process I'll stir up my hop bag additions with the spoon and squeeze the wort out of them on the side of the kettle, cause I've always hated losing that wort.

 

Several of my recent brews haven't called for a dry hop, but I hadn't considered a hop addition in the whirlpool stage and may try that as an aroma addition. The IC always takes 30-40 minutes to chill, so it would give plenty of time for that aroma addition.

 

In some ways I'm like @Fire Rooster in that I like to close up that fermenter and not expose it to air for the next 3 weeks, particularly the ss brew buckets because it's going to suck in air pulling the blow off tube out of the jar and then opening the top. 

 

The LBK I don't mind as much, since smaller batch and ease of dry hopping.

i don't even take off the blowoff tube.....just open the latches, lift it up a little and pour in the hop pellets. i don't use hop sacks anymore b/c the brew bucket compacts the gunk so well below the racking arm, and my beer has very little sediment. been doing different types of ipa's so much lately and they all call for dry hopping. just the style i like. will try some variety when i get through my queue.

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27 minutes ago, Jdub said:

i don't even take off the blowoff tube.....just open the latches, lift it up a little and pour in the hop pellets. i don't use hop sacks anymore b/c the brew bucket compacts the gunk so well below the racking arm, and my beer has very little sediment. been doing different types of ipa's so much lately and they all call for dry hopping. just the style i like. will try some variety when i get through my queue.

Lol, my lid doesn't want to come off that way, like a vacuum is holding it shut. 

I might have to try just throwing the pellets in next time!

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2 hours ago, Cato said:

but I hadn't considered a hop addition in the whirlpool stage and may try that as an aroma addition.

@Cato @Fire Rooster this is the best recipe i have brewed yet. also the 1st one i kegged. I will brew it again soon. if you like hazy or NE IPA's, you will love it.

 

https://beernbbqbylarry.com/2018/03/13/zombie-juice-1-ne-ipa-recipe-and-tasting/

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